Jonathan: “Dad, where are we going?”
Father: “Son, we’re going to the Johnsons’ house.”
Jonathan: “What? Why aren’t we going to church?”
Father: “We are, Jonathan. We’re going to church at the Johnsons’ today.”1
Jonathan: “But why, Dad? Why aren’t we going to the same church where we’ve always gone?”
Father: “It’s closed today, Son. They will be having services there tomorrow, on Sunday.”
Could such a scenario actually take place for Adventist believers? Believe it or not, this is the very situation now confronting many Seventh-day Adventist believers in the independent state of Samoa. How did such a state of affairs ever come about? Well, it all revolves around an imaginary boundary commonly known as the “international date line.”
What is the international date line, and how does it affect Sabbath keepers?
Of course, most people are aware that there is such a line, roughly following 180 degrees longitude, where on one side of the line it is considered to be one day, while on the other side it is already the next day. When you really stop and think about it, you realize that some such line, though necessarily arbitrary in nature, must exist somewhere on the globe if there is to be any kind of uniformity in determining what day it is at any given time and place.
How is the “international date line” determined? Is there some kind of international treaty in place?
Interestingly enough, there is not. The “line,” as we call it, is the result of the collective decisions of the various governmental jurisdictions of the world. There is sufficient agreement among these various entities to form a somewhat convoluted line, but which can nevertheless be drawn on a map.
What theory or convention is being followed, in order to achieve this degree of uniformity?
Well, I find that it is commonly believed, among both the religious and the secular, that Mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization. That’s also where the Garden of Eden is considered to have been. So, it would stand to reason that any date line should be somewhere close to halfway around the world from that location. However, the actual international convention for keeping time is a mean time based at an observatory in Greenwich, England. Apparently, this came about just because the English were the first to exert a sufficient global influence. This is what defines 180 degrees longitude, a line which the various governments may or may not follow exactly.
Sabbath keepers have generally not questioned such decisions made by government. However, things can get interesting when one government or another decides to make a change. One could say that the people of any given country used to consider themselves to be in the Far West of the world, but now they will be in the Far East – or vice versa. Independent Samoa (as opposed to American Samoa) is not the first country to make such a change. Many such revisions have been made, from time to time, among the islands of the Pacific. At one time, the date line ran to the east of Alaska. Again, it once ran to the west of the Philippines. In 1892, Samoa made a change. In 2011, the government of independent Samoa decided to reverse the previous move.
All of this begs the question: The Sabbath is holy time. Does any government really have the right to make a decision affecting the observance of God’s holy Sabbath day? We read the following in Genesis 2:3 (NKJV):
Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
What is the meaning of the Sabbath blessing of Genesis 2:3?
Here, one is faced with a deeper question. In blessing the seventh day, was God infusing the day itself with a special quality, or was He rather promising to bless those who would observe the seventh day in obedience and sincerity of purpose? The former seems to be an appealing concept to many, but just how is one to picture this in one’s mind? Did this blessing commence in Mesopotamia, spreading at a uniform rate of speed around the circumference of the earth, until it bumped into itself at a line exactly equidistant from its origin? If this were the case, it seems to me that the Sabbath blessing could only be realized by celebrating the day according to an exact comparison of the distance from where one is to the longitude of where the Garden of Eden was, by going either eastward or westward.
What would be the implications of such an approach? Well, for one thing, all generally accepted ideas of what day it is, at any given location, would have to be ignored. From sunset to sunset, one would necessarily end up observing the Sabbath on what the general public is calling Friday, or Saturday, or Sunday! In addition, we Sabbath keepers would have to draw our own Sabbath-keeping “date line,” running straight north and south, and dividing continents, countries, states or provinces, and perhaps even local communities. I write from British Columbia, and I realize that this line would necessarily run somewhere between here and Alaska. Can anyone really believe that this is the way God wants us to honour His holy day? The world would think we were crazy!
Therefore, I cannot escape the conclusion that the promised Sabbath blessing is bestowed on the basis of our willingness to obey and our sincerity of purpose. Hence, I believe that we need to follow the principles of Romans 13, going along with the government as long as they are not asking us to do anything wrong. In a location roughly halfway around the world from the cradle of civilization, could anyone seriously suggest that there are any moral implications (of right and wrong) involved in the decision of whether to consider one’s country to be in the Far West verses the Far East? I think not.
The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma
So, what has actually happened in Samoa, anyway? Following Thursday, December 29, 2011, the independent state of Samoa skipped Friday the 30th and moved directly into Saturday, December 31. The result is that, in this location, what would have been called Saturday, had the change not been enacted, will now be called Sunday. The Samoan government has cited a number of economic and logistical reasons for making the change, but it seems to have thrown the local Sabbath keepers into confusion.
The Seventh-day Adventist church in independent Samoa is administered by the Samoa-Tokelau Mission. The Mission administration, after considering the matter, had decided to begin observing Sunday (from sunset to sunset, of course) as the Sabbath. Their stated purpose was to continue observing every seventh day as the Sabbath, regardless of what the general public might call it.2 According to one news article, Samoan S.D.A. ministers were brought in from other countries.3 These visiting ministers made a presentation, advising the Samoa Mission administration against the decision which they had made – but to no avail. The local leaders were well-intentioned, no doubt, but they could not be persuaded to change their purpose.
The leadership of the Samatau S.D.A. church has decided to continue observing Saturday as the Sabbath. Within the rest of the Samoa Mission, on the other hand, there are many families and individuals who cannot conscientiously go along with the decision of the church leadership to observe what is now Sunday. Thus, confusion has been the result.
It has been urged by some that there may be cultural issues involved, of which we may be unaware. It has been said that this problem needs to be sorted out locally. I can certainly agree that a local solution would be ideal, and I share the hope that this will be achieved over time. Meanwhile, can we leave our Samoan brothers and sisters, who find that they cannot go along with the decision of their church leaders, to struggle along as best they can without any indication of support from the rest of us in the world church?
I hope and pray that they will find this article here, and that they will know that there are others who understand their plight.
————————
This post was edited on 2 February, 2012 to correct two factual errors regarding the Samatau SDA Church.
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I sincerely hope that difference can be resolved, but in case it is not, I strongly don’t want to see any “disfellowshipping” like the SDARM fiasco that started in Germany. May I suggest a back-up solution of dual missions, like black conferences in the U.S. which share overlapping geographic area as “white” conferences. It can be a solution so anyone could follow their conscience and where unity remains outside of this issue.
There are continued references to the original Creation Week series of seven days as it relates to Samoa. All scriptural references to Sabbath or the 7th day where we can place the location are based around what is now Israel, Palestine or Egypt.
We do not know how the original Creation week relates to post flood week except for a reference to manna not falling on that day pre-Sinai.
History does indicate that the Jews have kept a standard 7 day week cycle ever since the Babylonian captivity. That cycle of days was accepted by Jesus as he worshiped on the 7th day “as His custom was.” That implies that we must accept that God agreed that their 7th day of the 1st century was the “correct” one. Other than that, we have no knowledge of how it relates to the original week of Creation. But, believing that God does not change lends credibility to an unchanged cycle of 7 day weeks from Creation to the time of Christ.
Our problem is that the 7 day cycle of Sunday through Saturday did not come into common usage until early in the fourth century A.D. That is the same time-frame in which the Catholic church claims to have the authority to change the day of worship from the 7th day to Sunday.
However, there is a large body of evidence that the 7 day cycle we call Sunday through Saturday is in sync (as practiced in Israel and Egypt) with the Jewish cycle of the 7-day week of Christ’s time. That is, the day we call Saturday (in Israel/Palestine) is the same day the Jews identify as the 7th day Sabbath.
Returning to Genesis we find that the first sunset would have happened at the end of the 4th day and heralding in the 5th day (since days are “evening and morning”). Therefore, it is the sunset of the 6th day that is of most interest to this discussion since that would have heralded in the 7th day.
But that is in Israel/Palestine. How to we translate this to what happens in Samoa? I know of two ways and it boils down to a simple decision – but I don’t know the correct answer and see nothing in scripture to use as a guide. Sunset in Samoa either happens before or after sunset in Palestine. I don’t know when during that 4th day of creation week that the sun and moon came into existence. Nor do I know what part of the sky they would occupy when created.
Does anybody else have evidence to indicate whether the first sunset in Samoa happened before or after the first sunset in Israel/Palestine?
If the first sunset happened before, that would correspond to Sabbath (7th day) corresponding to Saturday as practiced to the east side of what we currently call the IDL. This is the same day called Friday to the west of the IDL (the “American” side).
If the first sunset happened after, that would correspond to Sabbath (7th day) corresponding to Saturday as practiced to the west of what we currently call the IDL This would be the same day called Sunday to those east of the IDL.
I just check the local sunset time and GMT offset for Jerusalem, New Zealand, Samoa, and my location (near Seattle, WA, USA).
Jerusalem – sunset 5:23 PM local Time Zone: GMT+2
Seattle – sunset 5:22 PM local Time Zone: GMT-8 (or 10 hours behind Jerusalem or 14 hrs ahead!)
Apia Samoa – sunset 7:59 PM local Time Zone: GMT+14 (12 hours ahead of or 12 hrs behind Jerusalem)
Auckland, New Zealand – sunset 8:22 PM local GMT+13 (11 hours ahead of or 13 hrs behind Jerusalem
Is Samoa 12 hrs ahead of or 12 hrs behind Jerusalem for the first sunset of the 4th day of Creation week?
Well, I forgot to adjust for the actual sunset times and used only the GMT offsets. Probably not that critical as sunset here in Seattle varies by several hours. Earliest if 4:18 pm and latest is 9:11 PM.
The main question is whether the first sunset happened in Samoa before or after the sunset in Jersusalem. [Which according to Revelation will be God's throne in the new earth.]
The Sabbath, according to Scripture, is the day between Friday and Sunday (Luke 23:52-24:1)
The Samoan Mission leadership decision to keep Sunday and the Division recommendations in favour of that are both based on the false premise that there has been a calendar change in Samoa resulting in the renaming of the days of the week. This is not true. The nation will use the same calendar as it did before. The change is in their relationship to the dateline. People are ignoring the fact that each day is observed around the globe covering a period of 48 hours. From the time the Adventists in New Zealand open the Sabbath till the time the Adventists in Tahiti close it, the earth has been through almost two complete rotations. All that Samoa has done is to move their time reckoning from the last to the first part of the 48 hours, which requires the so-called “skipping a day.” This is no different to what travellers do when they cross the dateline.
The leaders’ decision is a double standard. These same leaders do not observe the so-called “original seven day time sequence” when they fly across the dateline to another country but they expect the Samoan Adventist Church to do it when their government moves the whole country to the other side of the dateline. It has made a mockery of our beliefs and it reflects on the whole church. The implications are very wide ranging: Does this mean the rest of the nations in the Eastern hemisphere are out of sync and should now keep Sunday? Can the same day have two different names? On whose authority? Should a person studying with a Samoan or Tongan person in Australia or New Zealand recommend that they keep Sunday? Is Samoa the place to move to when Sunday laws are introduced in America? How will our evangelists in Samoa preach about the mark of the beast? Will Samoan SDAs follow a different day sequence to the rest of Samoa when they do business, fill out forms, record their births and celebrate their birthdays, etc? Of course they won’t. So they have only made themselves look foolish in the eyes of the world by carrying on life as usual for the rest of the week, but calling Sunday the Sabbath, while the rest of the nation call it Sunday. Sunday keepers are not now keeping the Sabbath; Adventists are now keeping Sunday. Incredible!
How disappointing that the wider church was not invited into the dateline discussion that leaders have been having over the past few years. Did they think the lay people have no good ideas or did they think it was a Samoan problem? This may be a result of so-called “multi-culturalism” which is dividing the church into racial groups.
The Sabbath School lessons for the first quarter, 2012, are very timely.
When in Rome do as the Romans do….”This advice allegedly was Saint Ambrose’s answer to Saint Augustine when asked whether they should fast on Saturday as Romans did, or not, as in Milan. ” wikipedia.
As such when I was in Europe was told this was the Bishop of Milan who kept the Sabbath when Rome Bishop kept the Sunday. So when went to Rome , did as Romans do…
So what do we as God fearing do? Well the Jews must know the right day and keep the Sabbath every Saturday. Now if we keep close to them is that right? Yet there were times when they lost their way and did not keep anything. Drought and all in Egypt as slaves. Yet we know we have a great God.
Fast and pray and God will show us the solution to this problem. Certainly any move to worship on a “Sunday” brings in the mark of the beast issue. To say keeping a Sunday is God’s day…nah just don’t believe that excuse.
Dear Steve,
Thank you for your input. You have pointed out that the time difference between Apia and Jerusalem is 12 hours. I’ve checked on this information, and found it to be true but incomplete. Apia and Jerusalem are actually only 11 time zones apart. The 12-hour time difference is due to the fact that Apia is on daylight saving time, which does not affect the actual setting of the sun. Thus, Apia’s current sunset-Friday-to-sunset-Saturday Sabbath has more hours in common with Jerusalem’s Sabbath than does Apia’s current Sunday “Sabbath.”
I believe that the teachings of Jesus have the answer to this whole question. As an illustration of how we should observe the Sabbath, He used the example of David and his men unlawfully, but correctly, eating the showbread.
Jesus’ disciples had been harvesting, threshing, and winnowing grain in their hands, in order to satisfy their hunger. According to the scribes, if that wasn’t work, what is? True, it wasn’t much work. Would a violation of the Sabbath commandment be O.K. just because it was a small one? Jesus pointed out that “the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.” In other words, when it comes to Sabbath keeping, human necessity trumps technical correctness. The disciples had not violated the true intent of the law, and the Pharisees had condemned the guiltless.
I see nothing in these teachings of Jesus to flatter human pride. In any given society, is it not a necessity that Seventh-day Adventist Christians observe Saturday (the generally accepted 7th day of the week) rather than Sunday (the generally accepted 1st day)?
So, if we are going to listen to Jesus, I have concluded that we must conform our Sabbath observance to the weekly cycle recognised by our local government and society, within reason. Someone has privately suggested that I may need to explain more clearly what I mean by “within reason.”
In Syria, for instance, no change in the weekly cycle would be within reason. So near the true Orient, where man and the Sabbath were created, only one day could be traced back to the Sabbath of creation in an unbroken weekly cycle.
Not so in British Columbia, where I live. Here we can trace our weekly cycle back to creation in either of two ways, depending on our choice of orientation. Do we look eastward, following the European week, or westward, following the Asian week? Either choice would seem to be within reason. The British Columbia government could put us on the Asian week tomorrow, turning our current Friday into Saturday, and my conscience would require adjusting my personal Sabbath observance with a one-time 6-day week (“which is not lawful” — Mark 2:26), because it is imperative that my fellow British Columbians see me keeping Sabbath on what they regard as the 7th day of the week, not on what they call Sunday. After all, the Sabbath was made for their benefit, too! I believe that Samoa’s Sabbath Keepers are following the true intent of the Sabbath commandment.
Hi Mr. White,
I have recently been having discussions with a face book friend in America about whether Christians should have guns. To me, I could never imagine Jesus owning a gun. Yet in America the gun lobby is so strong that even Christians believe they need them. In truth, death has no sting because when we are in Christ and are killed the next thing we will see is Christ returning, and to own a gun and actually kill some one (even in self defence) would be a big hurdle for our eternal marriage to Jesus Christ.
Then a few months ago a mate of mine was telling me that it is okay to watch porn and have an affair because King Solomon had 700 wives, not to mention the concubines. He felt that as long as he had his faith in God it didn’t matter.
Our God is an amazing God, and when we live our lives in human nature and understanding we cherish our favourite sins and the sins of the community that we live in. Satan knows that he can’t get most christians to leave the light and live in the dark, so he is quite happy to create situations where we live in the grey — where in living our lives, our actions can’t be seen as salvation destroying, yet they place us in situations not out of reach of the adversary. How do you stand for Christ when there is no difference between you and the world?
[MODERATOR Note: Replies to this comment should address the Samoan problem as Lance does in discussing the gray areas between right and wrong with respect to the main issues raised under this topic, not the issues of gun ownership or sexual sins.]
Dear Lance,
I hear you. I’ve been thinking similar thoughts lately, myself. We certainly know that professing Sabbath keepers are to be tested, but we may not know just how things are going to play out. It appears most of us know that, if we were to leave Adventism to join a Sunday keeping church, that would be tantamount to apostasy. So, it seems that Sunday keeping has come to us instead.
Of course, we have no interest in judging the sincerity or Christian experience of anyone. However, we certainly do know our own duty in this matter. Who would ever have thought it would come to this? One comment on this post actually suggested that, since God is in control of His church, we had better not differ with its official course of action. I had heard of the “infallible” church before, but this was never a part of Seventh-day Adventist doctrine!
I believe that those who wish to follow a particular course of action will be furnished with plausible excuses to do so. God knows those who are His, and no one can snatch them out of His hand. Those who are honestly deceived by the enemy of souls will have opportunity to see the light. Those who are maligned will be kept under the shadow of His wing.
As for grey areas, I don’t think it’s as hard to determine the true Sabbath day as some would have us believe.
By the way, is Noeline a relative of yours?
Hi Mr. White,
Yes Noeline is my mum, and she was living with us over here in paradise, but sadly she could not handle us going against the change of date decision. The church is everything to her, so I can understand that!
Thanks for being gracious, Lance. The church will never get one soul into heaven; only the Lord can do that. (See Psalm 49:7)
Could someone please send me a photograph or give me a link to pictures of the old calendar and the new calendar so I can compare them?
Dear RG,
Your comments regarding Christ’s statement in Matthew 12 are interesting given this week’s SS Lessons. The conclusion reached is the same I reached via a different route. We can’t know whether Samoan sunsets precede or follow the sunset in Jerusalem. Therefore either one should satisfy the demands of the fourth commandment.
But, having half the members following the 7th day that precedes Jerusalem and the other half following the 7th day that follows is a recipe for disharmony. We must dig deeper into the scriptures (as you have done).
I found that scripture holds that all the commandments are summed up into two –“Love to God and Love to Fellow Man.” [Luke 10:26-28] Paul goes even further and claims the whole law is all about Love [Romans 13:10]. He also indicates that doing something for the right reason isn’t enough if it causes a fellow member to stumble [Romans 14:13]. Peter also indicates that interpretation of scripture is not a private/personal matter [2 Peter 1:20].
Finally, Paul indicates that wherever possible we should obey the local authorities [Titus 3:1] and Peter agrees [1 Peter 2:13]. So long as their authority doesn’t force disobedience to God.
To my mind, the Samoan government didn’t change the weekly cycle nor did they change the names of the days in the week. They simply decided to be the start of the day (begin it for the entire globe) rather than the end of the day (end it for the entire globe).
Yes, the Sabbath was made to meet the needs of man. Man was not made to meet the needs of the Sabbath.
Does the sun rise in Samoa at the same time it rises in New Zealand?
Yes
Are New Zealand and Australia worshiping within the creation week cycle?
Yes
Why was Samoa 24 hrs. away from New Zealand?
Because an extra Monday was added in 1892
Wouldn’t adding a Monday in 1892 put Samoa outside the 7 day creation cycle?
Yes
Why do a majority of Samoans believe that by keeping the Sabbath on Sunday they are staying with the 7 day creation cycle?
Because a task force of learned scholars told them so
Didn’t they tell them about the extra day added at the instigation of the dateline?
No
If a day was added, wouldn’t a day subtracted in Dec. 2011 put Samoa back in line with the 7 day creation week?
Yes
Why did the church stick with worshiping on Saturday in 1892?
Maybe because the church was in its infancy back then
Was the Samoan church in error for the last 120 years?
No
Being aware now of this error, what should be done????
…………..
Dear Brethren,
I am a 1st generation New Zealand born Samoan and through the SSNET website, I came across the ‘The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma’. I have family living in Samoa whose lives are impacted by this situation, not to mention those of us outside of Samoa, trying to make sense of living in Samoa, practising Seventh Day Adventism but worshipping on Sunday, and the wider implications of this situation.
The International Dateline in the context of ‘The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma’.
I have closely followed the subject and sought to understand the ‘The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma’ caused by the Samoan Government decision on the 30 December 2011, to align Samoa time-zone west of the IDL, whereas prior to the change, it was east of the IDL since 4 July 1892. However, it is very important to note that before this period, Samoa original time-zone was west of the IDL. So, I completed some online research to learn about the IDL and also to understand the reason for Samoa decision to change the time-zone in July 1892 and then again in December 2011.
International Date Line – Definition (source Wikipedia).
An imaginary line on the Earth’s surface that is internationally agreed upon as the place where each new calendar day begins. The line extends from the North to the South Pole through the Pacific Ocean, roughly along the 180th meridian. The calendar day to the east of the line is one day earlier than it is to the west of the line. The International Date Line was established at the International Meridian Conference in 1884 in order to standardize time, especially for the purpose of travel.
A traveler crossing the International Date Line eastbound subtracts one day, or 24 hours, so that the calendar date to the west of the line is repeated. Crossing the IDL westbound results in 24 hours being added, advancing the calendar date by one day. The International Date Line is necessary in order to have a fixed, albeit arbitrary, boundary on the globe where the calendar date advances in the westbound direction.
Samoa International Date Line Changed in 1892 – Samoa and American Samoa aligned with California (source Wikipedia).
The Samoan Islands today divided into Samoa and American Samoa —were west of the date line until 1892, when King Malietoa Laupepa was persuaded by American traders to adopt the American date, being three hours behind California, to replace the former Asian date, being four hours ahead of Japan. The change was made by repeating Monday 4 July 1892, American Independence, (therefore an 8day week, to align the time-zone east of the IDL).
Samoa International Date Line Changed Back in 2011 – Samoa and American Samoa Separated again (source Wikipedia).
In 2011, more than 119 years after that change was made, Samoa shifted back to west of the date line by skipping Friday 30 December 2011, (therefore a 6day week, to align the time-zone west of the IDL). The International Date Line now passes between Samoa and American Samoa, with American Samoa remaining aligned with the American date.
Samoa Government Reason for the Change of the Date Line, (source Wikipedia).
Samoa made the change because Australia and New Zealand have become its biggest trading partners, and also have large communities of expatriates. Being 21 hours behind made business difficult because having weekends on different days meant only four days of the week were shared.
My Conclusion.
Based on these facts, I have come to the conclusion that before the decision to change Samoa time-zone on July 1892, from west to east of the IDL, adhering to the 7day cycle principle, the Sabbath fell on Saturday. If, I accept the logic of the 7day cycle and remain consistent to its application east of the IDL, this would have resulted with Friday being the 7th day and therefore the Sabbath Day. However we know this was not the case, because Sabbath worship from July 1892 until 30 December 2011, was on Saturday. I cannot confirm when the Seventh Day Adventist movement started in Samoa but assuming it was active from 1892, they would have had to accept a one-time 8day week to align Sabbath worship with Saturday. To remain consistent with the 7day cycle principle after the 30 December 2011 time-zone change west of the IDL, would require a one-time 6day week to align Sabbath worship with Saturday; please bear in mind that this was Samoa original time-zone before King Malietoa Laupepa decision to change it.
I accept the Scriptures as my guide, 2 Timothy 3:16, and so as a Seventh Day Adventist, the Sabbath Day is central to my relationship with God. It is also a material difference that sets me apart from Christians and non-believers that do not accept His instruction and purpose for the Sabbath, and to those who choose to worship on the Sunday. Therefore, I believe my worshipping on the Sabbath, the 7th Day (and according to the IDL), is Saturday. It is a powerful witness to those that have yet to come to know Him and within the context of the 7day week as we know it today, Sunday – Saturday and wherever we live according to the IDL, the Sabbath has always been on the 7th day of the week, Saturday, (the only exception I am aware of is Tonga).
Unless you do not accept the principle of the International Dateline, a Samoan Seventh Day Adventist travelling abroad, using their prevailing 7day cycle as the reference point, their Sabbath observance would fall on any day of the week depending on which country they are in, to be consistent with this principle. Conversely, any Seventh Day Adventist foreigner visiting Samoa that accepts the principle of the International Dateline, would not worship on Saturday with other Samoan Seventh Day Adventists, because it is not recognised by the Samoa Seventh Day Adventist Conference as the Sabbath Day.
Given that the IDL was established in 1884 as the global benchmark for the calendar and time for each country in the western and eastern hemisphere, it does call into question the validity of the Samoa Seventh Day Adventist Conference decision to apply quite correctly a 7day cycle, but that which is not aligned to the IDL, which is contradictory and undermines the fundamental of the order of day and time that the IDL was designed to accomplish globally.
Finally, my understanding of the Samoa Government reason for making the time-zone change, Samoa predominant trading partners and related commercial activity is west of the IDL, Australia and New Zealand, therefore it is a logical commercial decision to promote the country where it will receive the most economic benefit. I do not believe it is a cynical attempt to undermine 7th Day Sabbath worship.
I trust my understanding based on the aforementioned facts will help clarify your thoughts about the situation, as it has done for me personally. Praise God for His Everlasting Love and Mercy. May the Holy Spirit continue to agitate within us and may His will prevail resolving The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma.
The Bible teaches us that the civil government is set up by God for good purposes; however, some of the more unwise roads people have taken from our eschatology has led some people in the church to be paranoid about government actions; and to interpret every government action in a spirit of anticipation of a Sunday Law.
So even though I concur with your benign conclusion about the government’s motives; some people won’t see it that way.
Sadly, conspiratorial thinking seems to me to be getting too much of a foothold in our church today; and is being fed (erroneously) by its seeming dovetail with Daniel and Revelation. These are serious issues.
L Manu O’Uiha,
I am in New Zealand but believe me, we share the pain our Samoan brethren feel. There is some Scripture many seem to be ignoring – Luke 23:52-24:1 where the time for Sabbath is most clearly defined in Scripture as the day between Friday (Preparation) and Sunday (First day/Resurrection Day). Your Sabbath School lesson and your calendar clearly say that this Sunday is Feb 19, yet you will observe it as Sabbath, Feb 18. How will you record this in historical documents?
Could someone please let us know what the non-Adventists in Samoa are saying about all of this?
RG. Remember that it took a decade for the church to resolve the sunset versus 6 pm issue. Even EGW was in the 6 pm camp for a long period of time (while serving as a prophet). It was not until Andrews published a research paper that EGW changed positions on the subject.
To expect a quick resolution on the IDL issue will lead to frustration for some and may be a stumbling block for others. I see how each reached their decision. While I disagree with their conclusions I understand their convictions and must respect them for their position. The Lord let the SDA church wrestle with Friday sundown versus 6 pm for many years.
I do appreciate Ian’s first-hand comments and research. It is presented very thoughtfully and thoroughly.
On a side note — this morning the sunrise happened @ 7:16 AM (PST) in Seattle. If I’m doing my conversion correctly that would make it 3:16 PM UTC on Wednesday 2/15/2012. At that time it was 4:16 AM in Auckland, NZ. But their date was already Thursday 2/16/2012. That same sun rose for them just 2 hrs and 36 minutes later.
It is now noon in Seattle on Wednesday the 15th. I’m looking at the same sun that the folks in NZ are seeing but for them it is 9 AM on Thursday the 16th. This is a “benefit” of living on a round planet.
In just over 3 weeks I’ll travel to the Philippines and will experience a 6 day week followed 2 weeks later by an 8 day week. This is so I can worship with my brethern in Pagudpud, Philippines for those two Sabbaths. It is now 4 AM on Thursday the 16th and the sun will rise for them in 2 hours and 21 minutes from when this was written.
Good Morning Steve,
I am sitting here in Malaysia and reading your side note comments and they illustrate the point of the effect the IDL has on the fundemental order of day and time in different time-zones according to whether one is either located in the western or eastern time-zone. I travel frequently on business across the IDL and as you mention, you will soon experience, an adjustment of 6 day week travelling from east (USA) to west (Philippines) of the IDL and then when you return home 2 weeks later, make another adjustment of an 8day week, why, to get into sync with the prevailing 7day cycle in that hemisphere. The other important to note here is, the 7day cycle remains unbroken, the adjustment is the time-zone according to the IDL, to whichever side you are on.
Upholding the guidance of the Scripture, I do not believe any one of the contributors to this subject are disagreeing with God’s commandment regarding the Sabbath Day, the 7th day cycle and that the Sabbath is recorded in His word between Friday and Sunday. So we know, the Sabbath is God’s sacred day of rest, it was on the 7th day and it is Saturday, as we know it to be called today. We also know that the world is round and therefore depending wherever you find yourself in the world, if it is sunrise where you are, it is going to be sunset at the opposite side of the world. Herein lies the function of the IDL that provides the fundemental order of day and time and the impact it has on our global calendar and time.
When I consider this in the context of keeping the Sabbath Day as I understand the Lord God has instructed me through scripture, it does provide me with a peace and joy that my God is a God of Order and Purpose. This is the reason why I believe the IDL and 7day cycle are linked as it provides logical order to Sabbath keeping whether I am located west or east of the IDL and as it relates to the global time-zone. To isolate a time-zone from the rest of the world results with the situation now experienced by the Samoa Seventh Day Adventists that live west of the IDL but choose to remain on east of the IDL and worship on Sunday, when in fact is should be Saturday.
I pray the Lord continues to agitate within us to seek His Light and His will prevail. God Bless.
Although we have been offered the Gov’t prayer house for another few weeks, the Lighthouse group have decided to move to home base. This Saturday we will be worshiping at Moanamo Okasene’s house in Vailima, the big new house oppisite Norman Paul’s house. If you reach the 3 Sisters Catholic Church you have gone to far.
Next week we move to Tulaele Rd., Vailoa Faleata. Look for the blue marquee inside the big rock wall in behind Westend Motors.
Everyone is welcome. Just bring a plate as we have combined lunch every week. If you wish, come for the day and spend Bible studies at 2 pm after lunch and stay for closing Sabbath from 6:30.
We have plenty of spaces to have a nap when the sun gets too hot, come as you are and share Sabbath blessings with us!
If anyone requires a ride up the hill, this Sabbath, contact Merita at 7598629.
Kiaora All,
Talofa, Ian Letele or (shall I say?) Big Chief Leiataua of Samoa, thanks for your easy to understand research & it will be very helpful for our Samoan folks in Samoa & abroad as a lot of our people are confused.
Brother Lance Cutts, we pray for you & the team at the Lighthouse faamalosi. I have a suggestion. Why not request the Samoa Mission to make the Youth Hall available for your meetings on Sabbath? After all, your offerings & tithes are still going to the Samoa Mission, & besides, the facilities belong to the people (members) and you are Seventh – Day Adventists, whereas the SM is First Day Adventists.
Talofa Lance n Merita,
It’s been great knowing that you are still standing firm in regards to our Creator’s 7th day Sabbath. We are with you all and praying for God’s interceding Power to break thru’ and reveal His Mighty ways to your faithful group. Don’t give up, Jesus is coming soon!
I agree with Bro. Tesese’s suggestion, if Samoa Mission won’t let you use the hall then there’s a lot of Sunday Churches that will let you use theirs on Sabbath for a love offering…and it’s a good way to reach out.
Regards…
I have really appreciated reading through the various posts to this discussion as we have for a long time been on a journey as a denomination to grow in our understanding of Sabbath.
Personally, to have experienced the gradual transition from Sabbath being a rigid letter-of-the-law matter to one of responding to the incredible grace and mercy of God with “How can I best respond, Lord, in a way that is meaningful to You?” has been a life-changing blessing.
The Sabbath, as I have been coming to understand it, is more about engaging honestly and vulnerably with God on His terms. In approaching the question faced by our precious Samoan brothers and sisters, it seems that key issues revolve around what best honours God.
Choices that result in a clearer, worldwide recognition of the “Saturday” Sabbath (sunset to sunset of course) would reflect God’s Unity of purpose more than a letter-of-the-law response.
The whole issue of keeping Sabbath on a round world has challenged us for a long time. For example, those who live closest to the North and South poles, face the challenge of 6 mths of twilight and 6 mths of daylight, and have to define Sabbath by their clocks rather than by a visible sunset. Yet their honouring of God is the best option thanks to the possibility of flexibility. If they were to be bound by Sabbath being each 7 sunsets, it would be a very different outcome.
I know this is very different to what is being faced in Samoa, however, the challenge to be adaptable so that the best outcomes can be reached is similar.
I hope that pride will not get in the way of a resolution that will have to involve a recognition of a mistake having been made – “Sorry, we made an ill-informed choice. Let’s make the change that will be for the better outcome for all concerned, including God.”
May the Lord give those involved the necessary courage…
I’ve been concerned about how the Samoa issue has been handled ever since I saw the article in The Record. I have to agree with Brian Holland and John Wallace on this issue – it is not a renaming of days, it’s to do with which side of the IDL the country is considered to be on. Whenever anybody ever crosses the IDL, they worship on the Sabbath according to what is considered to be the 7th day according to the local government. People are regularly experiencing 6 day or 8 day weeks whenever they cross over the line. What date are Samoans calling today? – Currently it’s about 5:50 Sabbath afternoon Feb 18 in Qld Australia – yet in California it would still be Fri evening 17 Feb. Are they calling it Feb 17 or 18 in Samoa? If Adventists are calling it Feb 18 as per government regulations – then it’s currently late Sabbath afternoon there (or if the sun has already set, then the Sabbath has passed). What date do they use for baby’s births and all sorts of other regular work-related records. Obviously the actual date they have to use is the recognised date the government has declared. Saying that tomorrow is 19 Feb yet at the same time calling it Sabbath only would make them a laughing-stock. It’s just a subtle way of bringing Sunday-keeping into the church
We are taught as SDAs to “obey God whether or not it makes sense”. In fact, we anticipate a time when we will have to do things contrary to accepted practice or even established law.
This is why it is difficult for your practical line of reasoning to work among many SDAs–they see this as either a “test” or an opportunity to “obey or die”.
You can see somewhat where this kind of thinking goes if you look at some of the more extreme/fastidious practices of modern-day Ultra-Orthodox Jews; which are revered regardless of how incongruous or inconvenient they make everyday life to be.
Dear Andrew,
I fully believe that the Sabbath is to be a test in the end times, and that governments will pass and enforce laws to coerce us to violate it. But just how are we to prepare for what lies ahead? Don’t we need to develop a strong faith in God and a close connection with Jesus, while rooting and grounding ourselves in a correct knowledge of the Scriptures?
I’m afraid that too many of us may have been trying to take a short-cut. We’ve heard or read the prophecies, and we have concluded that the SDA Church will always be right, and that government will always try to push us into a course of action that will incur God’s displeasure. Perhaps it’s as if, by knowing the answers in advance, we hope that we are going to be able to “cheat” on the test. So, then what happens if God decides to change the test questions just a little bit? What if the government happens to be harmless, in a particular instance, and the church wrong?
With the pure You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious You will show Yourself shrewd.
Psalm 18:26 (NKJV)
Well, we have always tended to define “truth” as “facts” and that is why we are always seemingly preparing for a test.
The Sabbath has to mean more than just a “test of allegiance”–otherwise it’s always going to be about us (and how faithful we are) and not about the God of creation and His beautiful character.
When we fully understand and become jealous for God’s character and reputation; and fully see its expression in the Sabbath (and the Sabbath day itself); then we will be able to recognize real threats to the Sabbath day.
As a former resident of Samoa, although many years ago (I even did my last two years of High School at Samoa College), I have to concur with the Sabbath Keepers. First of all, Saturday did not exist in Samoa until the 19th Century and then it was the same day as it is today. Then in 1892, American merchants persuaded the the Samoan government to move Samoa to the other side of the dateline to make things more convenient for those whose main trade link was with San Francisco. The new change has only restored Samoan date keeping to the previous case.
I believe Samoan Adventists should still keep Saturday for all the reasons alluded to in the preceding arguments, particularly the Biblical ones, but if that is not enough, then surely following the same day as originally established as the Sabbath in Samoa is another good reason. I, personally, when I am next in Samoa (sometime soon, I hope) will be keeping Saturday as the Sabbath.
I should also mention that when I lived in Samoa, I regularly travelled back and forth to New Zealand, crossing the International Date Line as it then was. Whichever place I was in I kept the local Saturday as the Sabbath and still consider that to be the sensible (and Biblical) thing to do.
Some Jewish thoughts.
“Rabbi Yechiel Michel Tucazinsky says that the date line runs 180° east of Jerusalem. He explains that because Jerusalem is considered the center of the land given to the Jewish people, it is also considered the center of the world according to Jewish law. Therefore, the date line would be located exactly 180° opposite Jerusalem, which would also enable every Jew in the world to observe at least 12 hours of the Sabbath together with those who live in Jerusalem.” (Sefer Hayomam B’Kadur Ha’aretz, ch. 23.)
In other words — the line 0′ passing through Greenwich, this rabbi places as passing 35′ earlier, through Jerusalem.
180 degrees either way from Jerusalem would place the “Biblical” ???? IDL in Alaska at about 145′W. Islands like Hawaii and of course Samoan would all be on the western side of IDL in harmony with the lands east of Jerusalem– (like Australia)
So if this is a “Biblical” based explanation (well at least based on the Biblical Land) then the present (new) Saturday in Samoan is the true Sabbath.
And we can also take into consideration that the New Jerusalem will descend where the present Jerusalem is now situated, so it could well be the “center point” in God’s reckoning.
I spent quite some time reading through pages of comments on this thread. While I can understand the confusion concerning the IDL situation for the people, and found some excellent information being presented, there was something that was mentioned that greatly concerns me.
It appears the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Ind. Samoa is using a little too heavy a hand in enforcing Sunday worship on its members?
Correct me if I’m wrong.
I realize there are many who have accepted the decision as right and willingly accept and support it, yet there there seems to be a degree of force being used to get the people to worship on Sunday.
For example —
1. It was stated that a one sided presentation was made to the churches explaining the decision to embrace Sunday as the day of worship based mainly on a supposition that Sunday in Samoa actually dates back to creation’s 7th day, while “shelving” information that may have led to a different decision.
2. Pastors felt pressured to accept the decision or possibly lose their jobs. That a number of them are not comfortable with the decision.
3. People who wanted to worship on the 7th day (Saturday) as recognized by NZ and Aust. and now Samoa, have been denied the use of Seventh-day Adventist church facilities.
4. People opposed to worship on Sunday fear disfellowship?
This sounds like coercion which greatly disturbs me.
Ulrike you had been misinformed about the situation in Samoa if these are the information you got. You were poorly advised. None of the 4 things you mentioned were happening in the island as i am in Samoa and witnessed everything. You need not to be poisoned by a few members who opposed the decision of the main church. Rely on God and his leading Hand not from few individual opinions. God Bless.
[Editorial Comment: If "Boss" wishes to have credibility on this blog, this commenter will provide his real name, as requested by the moderators and as other Samoans posting here have done.]
Hi Boss,
Are those worshiping on Saturday, outside Samatau, allowed to use church buildings for their worship?
Are all pastors for Sunday worship?
Was the report, that we still are not allowed to mention on here, shelved by the mission executive?
Please explain about the rumours that Sabbath keepers will be disfellowshiped, if they don’t keep Sunday, after a 6-month period. The executive met on Feb. 11th to decide our fate, and as yet only rumours abound.
It would be great to know your real name, and if an error has been detailed on this board, please answer it — or explain why the “7-day creation cycle” is still embraced, when it is obviously error. God bless in your stand.
I just hope pride does not keep error in place of what is right! The Sabbath and our end-time message are under threat because of present circumstances.
It is amazing how easy it was for the devil to get God’s church to embrace Sunday worship!
“Love is power.
“Intellectual and moral strength are involved in this principle and cannot be separated from it. The power of wealth has the tendency to corrupt and destroy, the power of force is strong to do hurt, but the excellence and value of pure love consist in its efficiency to do good and to do nothing else than good.
“Whatsoever is done out of pure love (be it ever so little or contemptible in the sight of men) is wholly fruitful, for God regards more with how much love one worketh than the amount he doeth.
“Love is of God.
“The unconverted heart cannot originate nor produce this plant of heavenly growth, which lives and flourishes only where Christ reigns.
“Love cannot live without action and every act increases, strengthens and extends it. Love will gain the victory when argument and authority are powerless.
“Love works not for profit nor reward; yet God has ordained that great gain shall be the certain result of every labor of love.
“It is diffusive in its nature and quiet in its operation, yet strong and mighty in its purpose to overcome great evils. It is melting and transforming in its influence and will take hold of the lives of the sinful and affect their hearts when every other means has proved unsuccessful.” (Testimonies to the Church, Vol II, p. 135)
Funny (or should I say ironic)–as the Sabbath is about God’s character; which is not coercive.
Talofa all,
I’m based in Auckland, but very up to date with developments in Samoa & travel to Samoa often each year on business & family matters.
All 4 things are true.
I affirm Lance Cutts & his team at the Lighthouse.
I wouldn’t take any notice of Boss as he doesn’t have a name.
The only reason why Samatau church has a special arrangement is because the (Sa’o) Big Chief of the Puni family who own the land where the church is located has given the freedom for members to choose.
All Adventist churches should be available for members to worship in. After all, it’s the members who funded the building. ACA, through the local mission, is to act as a caretaker .
What does Ellen G White say about the dateline
” The Date Line Problem
Sister T has been speaking of you to me. She says that you are in some confusion in regard to the day line. Now, my dear sister, this talk about the day line is only
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something that Satan has devised as a snare. He seeks to bewitch the senses, as he does in saying, “Lo, here is Christ, or there.” There will be every fiction and devising of Satan to lead persons astray, but the word is, “Believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not” (Matthew 24:23-26). {3SM 317.3}
Seventh-day Sabbath Left in No Uncertainty.– We have the positive word of God in regard to the Sabbath [Exodus 31:12-18 quoted]. {3SM 318.1}
Is it possible that so much importance can be clustered about those who observe the Sabbath, and yet no one can tell when the Sabbath comes? Then where is the people who bear the badge or sign of God? What is the sign? The seventh-day Sabbath, which the Lord blessed and sanctified, and pronounced holy, with great penalties for its violation. {3SM 318.2}
The seventh-day Sabbath is in no uncertainty. It is God’s memorial of His work of creation. It is set up as a heaven-given memorial, to be observed as a sign of obedience. God wrote the whole law with His finger on two tables of stone. . . . {3SM 318.3}
Now, my sister, . . . I write . . . to tell you that we are not to give the least credence to the day line theory. It is a snare of Satan brought in by his own agents to confuse minds. You see how utterly impossible for this thing to be, that the world is all right observing Sunday, and God’s remnant people are all wrong. This theory of the day line would make all our history for the past fifty-five years a complete fallacy. But we know where we stand. . . . {3SM 318.4}
To Stand Fast by Our Colors.–My sister, let not your faith fail. We are to stand fast by our colors, the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. All those who hold the beginning of their confidence firm unto the
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end will keep the seventh-day Sabbath, which comes to us as marked by the sun. The fallacy of the day line is a trap of Satan to discourage. I know what I am speaking about. Have faith in God. Shine where you are, as a living stone in God’s building. {3SM 318.5}
The children of God will be triumphant. They will come off conquerors and more than conquerors over all the opposing, persecuting elements. Fear not. By the power of Bible truth and love exemplified in the cross, and set home by the Holy Spirit, we shall have the victory. The whole battle before us hinges upon the observance of the true Sabbath of Jehovah. . . . {3SM 319.1}
I can write no more now, but I say, Give no ear to heresy. Cling to a plain “Thus saith the Lord.” He will comfort and bless you, and will give you joy in your heart. Praise the Lord that we have clear light, and a plain, distinct message to bear.–Letter 118, 1900. {3SM 319.2}
See also, Review and Herald Feb 16, 1892 Mrs White Travels to Samoa crossing the date line
Emma Faith Kliewer
(916) 209-7225 direct line
(916) 678-1844 text line
Amazing Facts Bible School
(916) 434-3880 ext. 5
During January the world Seventh-day Adventist Church observed 4 Sabbaths but the Sunday-Sabbath keepers in Samoa had 5 Sunday-Sabbaths. Sorry guys, you are outside of the world church. The Bible would call this apostasy.
Does anyone in leadership at Samaoa-Tokelau Mission or South Pacific Division have the courage and humility to say, “We made a mistake?”
We ought to pray for them.
Letter from SM president 20th Feb 2012 to Samatau Sabbath Keepers.
Background Information – 3 weeks ago the Samoa Mission called a meeting with all Sabbath Keepers in Samoa (Samatau & The Lighthouse Groups) to meet with the Samoa Executive Committee to present their reasons for keeping the Sabbath and not the Sunday as chosen by the Church in Samoa.
At the meeting the Samatau Sabbath Keepers (SK) requested for the SDA Samatau minister to also include the Sabbath Keepers families in his visitation and pastoral care.
Here’s the translation of the letter from the President replying to the request. (Original letter is written in Samoan on Samoa Mission letterhead and signed by the President, Uili Solofa).
[I have bracketed and added background information to assist with the translation.]
Here’s my view of this letter.
* A copy of the letter was sent to the Village chiefs of Samatau who are not SDA members. They belong to the AOG etc -it just happened that most of them are our relatives and gave the Samatau SK their copy to read.
Letter should not have been given to the village. This is an internal matter between the church leaders and the SK members. There was no need for the village council to know about it. It will reflect badly on the president and the church as a whole.
*Minister visitation of the SK families suggests that once the Samoa Mission (with advice from SPD) disfellowships the SK families, the minister visitations will be terminated.
*For the President to say “No man can serve two gods” implies that the SK members are worshipping Buddha, Mohammed or some other god.
*Since the SM President says that no one(SK) can use the pulpit whose beliefs differ from the church’s fundamental beliefs, he needs to think again – the Sabbath Keepers are the true remnant group whose beliefs are in agreement with the SDA fundamental beliefs. The President and the Samoa Mission are now Sunday worshipers and are against the fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventists.
In Australia now, SDA Samoan churches have advised the GC and the SPD that the Samoa Mission President and his ministers from Samoa will no longer be allowed to preach in their pulpits. (After all they are now Sunday worshipers)
God is working in the hearts of the Samoan SDA members locally and globally. It is only a matter of time before more members will make their stand for God. I won’t be surprised if whole churches will turn against the SM’s decision and worship on the true Sabbath.
The support from the SDA family globally is very much appreciated.
Your prayers and support for the Samoa Sabbath Keepers are needed right now.
If you would like to be part of the Sabbath Keepers Network mailing list, then contact
.
Thank you Jenkins for this translation of the President’s letter. It highlights the problems which will continue to descend from the bad decision by the Samoas-Tokelau Mission to keep Sunday.
1. We have SDA ministers in Samoa who has been prohibited from visiting the Saturday keeping SDA congregations. The reason given? Man cannot serve two gods.
2. We have SDA Samoan congregations in Australia who have prohibited those same SDA ministers in Samoa from coming to preach in their Aussie pulpits! The reason given? The ministers are Sunday keepers.
I can’t even imagine what God is thinking!
Jesus was so right when He said, “The children of the mammon of unrighteousness are wiser in their day than the children of light.” (Luke 16:8)
Q. What does the Third Commandment command?
A. The Third Commandment commands us to sanctify Sunday as the Lord’s Day.
(Source: Roman Catholic Catechism)
Thank you, Jenkins. One thing has me thinking… President Solofa does not believe that our ministers can very well serve their congregations at worship on both Saturdays and Sundays, because no man can serve two gods.
I seem to recall someone also saying that one Man needed to die for the nation…
This wouldn’t be the first time for a church leader to speak the truth in spite of himself, would it?
No man can serve the Lord of the Sabbath and the sun god at the same time.
If the church had stuck to the 7 day creation cycle in 1892 they would have worshiped on Friday, but they didn’t.They kept the sign of God’s remnant people and they worshiped on Saturday, the Sabbath.
120 years later, and a strong undercurrent of an ungodly domineering spirit runs through the mission and the church. Words from the President are, “Don’t blame the mission secretary or the mission treasurer. This is my decision and it is non-negotiable.”
The trouble with domineering behaviour and decisions made in error is that this is against God, and God has HIS people who (though the path may be difficult when against the odds) will stand true to our precious Saviour and will never follow the majority and worship on Sunday.
The threat of disfellowship constantly keeps getting voiced to us, but here again, you can cut us off from using church buildings, cut us off from pastoral care, but the mission and the church will never be able to cut us off from God. Instead, everything that is thrown at us, and the deceptions that are printed in the Record, will only grow us stronger in HIS everlasting love.
I often watched Doug Batchelor’s Final Events DVDs and I saw the remnant portrayed as a people that the Christian world wanted to destroy. I had my doubts that this could ever happen; I have no doubts anymore!
Lance,
It’s sad for the president to talk like that.
A lot of times leaders forget they don’t have the authority they think they do. But they don’t, it’s the church members that have the authority.
They only realise it after the next session when they get voted out.
I wouldn’t worry about getting disfellowshiped. Both SPD & SM will have to answer to God & the Global SDA body if they go ahead with their threat.
God will make a way.
International Date Line by Nature: ABSOLUTE or RELATIVE?
It is quite clear that the IDL by nature is relative because Western Samoa has changed it two (1892 and 2011) times already.
The question that keeps coming to mind is; Does God know where humans (SDA) should change time when travelling around the world? After all, He created this world to be a round world.
I think most people would say yes.
Does God then have a way of letting us (SDA) know where to change date/time when travelling around the world?
It’s a YES for me.
• EGW in her diary (1891) says it’s between Samoa and NZ, so when it’s Sabbath in NZ, it’s Preparation day in Samoa.
• Missionaries (SDA) who travelled to the pacific before 1892, upon stopping in Samoa celebrated the Sabbath on Sunday and not on Saturday. See “Samoa and the International Date Line”
• The 1st residential SDA missionaries to Samoa (post 1892) continue the unbroken 7-day cycle Sabbath on a day which then co-inside with Saturday. This continues up to December 2011.
• The Samoan SDA leaders, after a lot of prayers, consultation, and continual leading by God’s spirit decided to continue worshipping on the 7th day Sabbath cycle, on a day which now co-inside with Sunday. Ironically, this is the very same day missionaries who travel around the Pacific before 1892, regarded as the 7th day Sabbath in Samoa.
While Western Samoa keeps on changing the IDL, which directly change the order of the week days (dropping Friday 30th December altogether from history), I support the way Samoan SDA Mission/leaders stay strong and consistence with the Bible, EGW and Spirit-let missionaries of the past years.
We are living in a changing world, but I admire the way ALL SDA Missions around the IDL handle (Don’t change) the 7 day-cycle Sabbath given to us by God thru his human workers/instruments.
God bless
FOUR THOUSAND YEARS
From creation to the time of Jesus, its about 4 thousand years, where the Sabbath day can only be trace by the 7-day cycle day1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. Adam never worshipped on a Saturday, nor was Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Daniel, Hosea, Isaiah, Jesus, Peter or Paul.
So why do we need to abandon that winning formula now? To follow a Saturday Sabbath, a day that is name after pagan god.
God bless.
Dear Viliami,
It is not the name of the day that is in question, but the days relative position to other days of the week. Exodus 31 tells us that the Sabbath is a sign that us and God. Revelation 13 tells us that the devil has a sign that shows who are his. The two signs are supposed to be different.
Adam, Abraham, Peter and Paul never had the privilege of crossing the globe to the extent that this particular problem was an issue for them.
God’s remnant people worship on a different day from the rest of Christendom — not by accident or coincidence, but because God’s sign is at the opposite end of the week from His enemy’s sign.
The Bible is not clear on what anyone may have chosen or not chosen to call the 7th day of the week where they lived, but it is very clear of how to distinguish which day it is, and how it should never be confused with what other folks would deem “the day of the sun.” (Ezekiel 8:16)
Dear Andrew,
The two signs are still different, even when the two days overlap in Samoa.
Sunday keepers always keep the whole of Sunday. That is, from 12 midnight to 12 midnight.
7th day Sabbath keepers always keep the biblical day, which is from sunset to sunset. Which translate to a little portion of Saturday and a larger portion of Sunday. So SDA 7th day keepers are wholly faithful to the bible and the BIBLE ONLY for they don’t care what the world call it (Saturday, Sunday or whatever), but those who believe that Saturday and SATURDAY ONLY is the Sabbath, I think are totally faithful to a day dedicated to the pagan god of the planet Saturn, for they lost sight of how the bible recall the days, and are totally immense on how the world call and place it.
Another problem is, if one is to put their concentration in locating the sign (Sunday) of the enemy, and base on that fact how they determine the Sabbath, by thinking it is the day before (Saturday), then the enemy will only have to move his sign (Sunday) forward or backward and trick us into keeping a wrong day. Using this method may be right most of the time, but not 100 per cent of the time.
We should be concentrating on the Lord’s Day.
God bless
Dear, Viliami
Given the seriousness of the situation, I’m pretty sure that the Bible would have outlined for us if the enemy would change his sign around as a means of confusing us. Interestingly, the Bible suggests no such thing. (And, if he were to bother doing it, why only focus on one or two countries vs the bulk of the planet?)
7th day keepers are known as 7th day keepers because they are keeping the day that everyone in the area that they are recognize as the 7th day.
Talofa my dear Viliami,
You refer to the faithful Sabbath keepers as being totally “faithful to a day dedicated to the pagan god of the planet Saturn”. There is lack of consistency when you reject the local (globally accepted) counting of days while at the same time you accept the appointments, holidays, school and working days/hours and all other events that fall on the different week days counted locally; But at the same time you follow the “pagan” naming of months. Many months are named after Roman gods (Janus, Mars, Maia, Juno). July was named in honour of Julius Caesar and his successor the emperor Augustus renamed August after himself.
It has already been pointed out twice in this forum that the sun stood still in Joshua 10:13. You then need to go back to the Biblical times and fix that Joshua 10:13 issue and recount your cycle otherwise you are worshipping on a pagan day and openly so, to the amazement of the whole world.
You say that those keeping the seventh-day Sabbath on Saturday are worshiping on a day dedicated to the heathen god Saturn. Yet you promote worshiping on the day commonly called Sunday and previously dedicated to worshiping the sun. This issue of worshiping the sun is specifically addressed in Ezekiel 8:15-17. It was a problem in biblical times and it is referred to as a great abomination. There is, however, no record of God’s people being turned away from worshiping on the 7th day Sabbath (which falls on Saturday) to another day. This line of argument therefore seems inconsistent to me.
Many are happily following this discussion wondering that the very church that has been preaching about the mark of the beast is divided, Sunday Sabbath keepers are doing the work of persecution that we have all the time thought would be carried out by other Sunday keepers – when the Sunday Sabbath keepers reach an extent of telling the faithful Seventh day Sabbath keepers to resign from THEIR church. I would rather encourage the faithful to stand firm, after all world wide offerings that we have all been returning to carry out God’s work were used to construct some of those buildings!! Where then is the brotherly love? We are encouraged to accept people as they are and show them God’s love, not to chase them away because we have the power to do so and because they do not do as we do. How then are we different from the worldly dictators we hear of in the news?
May God guide you and the SM. It is not too late to reverse the erroneous decision made.
God bless you my dear brother.
Viliami writes
Forgive me Viliami but I need to ask a question????
What happens in this 6000 year 7 day cycle (2000 years after Christ) when you add a day and make a 8 day week like the Samoan govt did in 1892?
Does this mean
(1) That samoa was out of line with creation before 1892 and this day addition brought it into the 7 day cycle? OR
(2) That the addition of a day in 1892 took Samoa out of line with the 7 day cycle of creation? OR
(3) Adding and subtracting days to realign with time zones is the correct way to look at this, as we do this all the time when we cross time zones? OR
(4) It is that important that we keep sunday worship that we disregard the addition of a day in 1892 and we refuse to subtract a day in 2011?
That’s fine Lance, or in Tongan, ‘Oku faka’ofo’ofa ‘aupito pe ia Lance
Let me start with the biggest problem of a 7-day cycle (with no names attached). If we enter an uninhabited new country and we decided to live or inhabit it, how do we know which day is the 7th? No one can tell us that today is Friday or tomorrow is the 3rd day of the week, but we must find or decide which day is the Sabbath.
Now let’s go back to what we already know, common or already agreed on. We know that the 7th day or Sabbath in Israel is the right one, for Jesus confirms it by keeping it.
Now let’s move on to the great USA. I also believe that all or most will agree that America has got the right Sabbath too, for whatever reason/s.
• Now let’s move on to SAMOA (WESTERN). Before 1892, all SDA who enter Samoa unanimously kept the Sabbath on the day Samoa call Sunday. Let me put it below.
LEFT – SDA label days
RIGHT – how Samoan call the days
BRACKET – the date of the week where the change took place
Day6 Saturday [2/7/1892]
Day7 Sunday [3/7/1892]
Day1 Monday [4/7/1892]
Day2 Monday [4/7/1892]
Day3 Tuesday [5/7/1892]
Day4 Wednesday [6/7/1892]
Day5 Thursday [7/7/1892]
Day6 Friday [8/7/1892]
Day7 Saturday [9/7/1892]
Forgive/ignore me if you find this repetitive.
The 7-day cycle on the LEFT never change, no matter what the right hand side is doing. The assumption is: we must start off with the right day, which is why I started off with the explanation above.
The left contains 7-day week and will always contains 7-day week, but the right contain an 8-day week then change to 7-day week the very next week. [It changes again to 6-day week in Dec 2011 then to 7-day week]
Before the change, the 7th day fell on what Samoa call Sunday, but after the change, the 7th day now falls on Saturday.
• Now, let’s fast forward to the change in 2011.
Day6 Friday [23/12/2011]
Day7 Saturday [24/12/2011]
Day1 Sunday [25/12/2011]
Day2 Monday [26/12/2011]
Day3 Tuesday [27/12/2011]
Day4 Wednesday [28/12/2011]
Day5 Thursday [29/12/2011]
Day6 Saturday [31/12/2011]
Day7 Sunday [01/01/2012]
Again, the left side maintain the 7-day week as always, but the right have a 6-day week.
I hope that I was of any help to your questions, whether it was to your liking or not is another matter.
Just a side issue. It should be clear from the tables above, that just because Samoa call Day7 Saturday (between 1892 and 2011) or Sunday (before 1892 and after 2011), does not really matter, from the LEFT SIDE POINT OF VIEW. The RIGHT side can represent Samoa, USA, Australia, NZ or Tonga, and can change as often or in different ways, but will have no affect on the left hand side.
If the right side has a 10-day week like France in the past, it won’t (will never) affect the cycle on the left.
God bless
Viliami,
I still don’t understand why you believe that counting from one to seven results in Sunday being the seventh day. How do you decide that the Sunday of December 25, 2011, was the correct Day 1 of the Creation cycle, as you call it?
The way I see it, the Jews have been worshiping on the seventh day of the week for thousands of years, and I believe it to be the same day of the week on which Adam worshiped. That same seventh day is the day before Sunday, according to Matt 28:1-6. That is also the same day that Adventists around the world keep the Sabbath, except for some in the Pacific Islands who worship on Sunday — out of harmony with the rest of the body of Seventh-day Adventists.
Dear Inge,
Are you sure you are not up for another counting lessons?
I think our differences is due to the fact you see names of days such as Friday, Saturday and Sunday and then you try and RELATE/TRANSLATE it backward to the week days (day1, day2, …) of the bible.
I can see that this is a very common mistake, for example: you said “That same seventh day is the day before Sunday, ACCORDING to Matt 28:1-6”
This is so far from the truth, and I am sure a very analytical person such as yourself should easily see this? The word Sunday is not even in the verse? Nor is the word Friday or Saturday. Forgive me for repeating this, but the name Friday, Saturday nor Sunday is nowhere to be found anywhere in the WHOLE bible.
Matt 28:1-6 (kjv)
In the end of the SABBATH, as it began to dawn toward the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Do you remember when I suggest that EGW celebrated Sabbath on the 7th day in Samoa, a day Samoan call Sunday? What was your reaction? You were horrified and said, “If it weren’t for the fact that “the dead know not anything” she would roll over in her grave at being accused of Sunday Sabbath keeping!”
Please spare a thought for poor Matthew? Who is so careful to use Jewish or biblical terms such as “first day of the week”, and “Sabbath”. But here we are 2000 years later and good SDA are stigmatizing poor Mathew and Luke with the pagan god of the Sun and the pagan god of Saturn?
If you don’t believe me saying that Sunday (Saturday, Friday, etc) is not even mention in the bible, then perhaps you might believe R G White? For this is what R G White said concerning this matter “You stated that Abraham and others never worshiped on a Saturday. Well, of course we understand that the day didn’t have that name in Bible times.”
When anyone starts to use the bible this way, adding a bid (just one word) here and a bid (one word) there, then any bizarre and unbiblical theory such as SABBATH CAN ONLY BE ON SATURDAY and no other day is acceptable is the inevitable result.
God bless
Whether we use “First Day” or “Sunday,” the meaning is the same, and I don’t think it would bother Matthew all that much to hear us using the modern names for days. I’m also guessing you use the names of the week as given in whatever country you happen to reside in — except when you argue for keeping Sabbath on Sunday.
We know that the cycle of the week has not been broken since the time of Christ. We also know that He rested in the tomb on the seventh-day Sabbath, which is still kept on Saturday by Jews today and all Adventists, except a few in the South Pacific. Saturday is universally recognized as the day before the resurrection day (Sunday).
The gospel accounts tell us that the day before the resurrection was the Sabbath day. And in this way, the Bible helps us to know which is the correct seventh-day Sabbath today. It’s the day before the day on which Christ rose, which is the first day of the week, generally known as Sunday.
If there’s a “bizarre” theory, it is the way of re-numbering the days something other than they have been and are currently recognized nearly world-wide, except for areas that have adopted a new calendar in order to make Sunday the last day of the week. But to have Seventh-day Adventists do the same sort of renumbering to make Sunday the last day of the week in order to justify keeping Sunday as Sabbath seems bizarre indeed to the world looking on.
This sort of quixotic “counting” has put Tonga, some other islands, and now Samoa out of sync with the rest of the Adventist world. While Seventh-day Adventists around the world kept Sabbath on March 3, Adventists in Tonga and Samoa treated March 3 as an ordinary week day and kept Sunday, March 4, as their Sabbath. And for Seventh-day Adventists world-wide, March 10 is the seventh-day Sabbath of the Lord, while most Adventists in Tonga and Samoa will treat it like an ordinary week day, except for a very few who are currently being asked to drop their membership in the Seventh-day Adventist church specifically because they keep the same Sabbath as Adventists world-wide, rather than the Sunday Sabbath decreed by the Samoan Mission and South Pacific Division.
Who would have thought that such an attack on the seventh-day Sabbath would come from within the Seventh-day Adventist church, rather than from the outside?
Certainly I remember your suggestion of Ellen White keeping Sunday as Sabbath, and I maintain that she would be utterly horrified to see such a practice ascribed to her, because she kept the seventh day of the week (Saturday) wherever she went, accepting a short week of 6 days or a long week of 8 days with equal equanimity upon crossing the date line as it was recognized at the time.
And I’m fairly certain that if Ellen White were alive today and visited Independent Samoa or Tonga this week, she would be keeping the same seventh-day Sabbath that the rest of the Adventist world keeps — the day most people call Saturday, falling on March 10, 2012 and every seventh day thereafter.
Our prayers go up for all the dear people on Tonga, Samoa and other islands who are confused about which day is the seventh-day Sabbath and particularly for those who are keeping the same seventh-day Sabbath as the rest of the Adventist world but are threatened with being disfellowshipped for not keeping Sunday instead.
Dear Viliami,
It is good to hear from you again.
I’m glad you didn’t just count the days for us once more. 
(I was getting a bit weary of the counting lessons.)
I quite agree with what you wrote:
God does not require us to have PhD degrees to figure out what day is the Sabbath. In fact, we don’t even have to have a high school education to know what day is the Sabbath. All we need to know is that all around the world, the day that falls before Sunday is the Sabbath — the same seventh day that Jesus kept and the same seventh day that the Jews have kept for thousands of years.
By the example Ellen White provided for us and by what she wrote, we can also be quite certain that the way to change date/time when traveling around the world is to accept the date and time of the countries where we find ourselves — as long as they follow the seven-day week convention of the rest of the world.
Any number of missionaries making mistakes in relating to the date line in the past does not turn their mistakes into facts. And the passing of time does not turn mistakes into facts.
Western Samoa did not “change the order of the days” any more than you “change the order of the days” when you cross the date line in your travels. You simply adjust to the local time, wherever you are.
Western Samoa re-aligned itself in reference to the date line, which is similar to a traveler like yourself crossing the date line.
You point to David Tasker’s paper on the SPD site, and I note you have repeated his argument here a number of times. Re-reading the paper just now demonstrates to me the superficial quality of the research that has gone into the SPD decision to recommend Sunday keeping in Samoa. Let’s just take a look at a small portion of his paper. Among other things, he writes:
I believe he is mistaken on several counts.
First of all, if the two boats arrive at Apia about the same time, according to Apia time, their calendar watches will still match — unless they kept resetting their watches along the way. After all, they took the same amount of time. Otherwise some strange spookery took place! No wonder people are confused!!
Secondly, if they counted sunrises or sunsets to keep time, each boat will be a day out. The reason for this is that the boat traveling west had extra long days, because it was traveling with the rotation of the earth (thus “losing” a day, and the boat traveling east will have had extra short days (thus “gaining” a day, because it was were traveling against the rotation of the earth.
Thus, according to sunrises or sunsets, the boat traveling east took an “extra day” when, in real time, they took exactly the same amount of time. Counting sunrises or sunsets, they would be a day ahead of Apia time.
By contrast, the boat traveling west and counting sunrises and sunsets would have had extra long days, and it would be behind Apia time by a day. Thus the boat racers would be two days apart, according to time counted by the sun.
Perhaps this very old description of the “Circumnavigator’s Paradox” by a Kurdish historian named Abu Alfida (1273-1331) is clearer than my explanation of David’s illustration:
Another mistake in the Tasker paper is this:
This explanation is exactly the opposite of what really happens: Because the days are shorter traveling East, against the rotation of the earth, early sailors who circled the globe in an easterly direction GAINED a day! And those sailing in a westerly direction LOST a day! (This is easy to verify by searching the internet. See, for example, “The International Date Line FAQ” is the US Navy Observatory website” That means, of course, that the explanation of the boat racers is equally wrong.
The rest of the paper is just as much mistaken, but we shall leave that for another time. After reading such research, no wonder people are confused!
Dear Inge,
It’s good to be here, and I hope all is well in your part of the world.
Like all illustration, the story of “boat racing – East, West ”, is to make a point. One can pick apart the story or illustration, but the POINT or FACT still remains. Just for illustration: take the opening story told by R G White at the beginning of this thread. There’s a father and a son (Jonathan), where the son is asking the father all kind of questions about the day of worship. I could quite easily find many faults with this, for example, what about the wife and mother of Jonathan? And the other 9 kids? Who are going to the Sabbath on a day Samoan call Sunday (Samoan usually have many kids, not just 1
), but I don’t . Why? Because I can see what R G White is getting at? The story is not the point R G White is trying to get across, but is only a vehicle he is using.
It is the same with this story of boat racing. And I agree with your assessment, but like I said, this story is not the point the writer is trying to get across. So why am I saying this? Because I believe you may be missing the point, by going after the story/vehicle?
The point?
SDA who went to Samoa (land or sea) before 1892, unanimously worship (Sabbath) on the day Samoan call SUNDAY.
• 1888 – George Tenney
• 1891 – Ellen G White (on Samoan water)
• 1891 – Joseph Marsh (on Samoan land)
God bless
Viliami, the boat racing would have been a good illustration to clarify why we have a dateline. And that’s what it was evidently meant to illustrate, except that the author got most of his facts wrong — causing confusion, rather than clarification.
Unfortunately, your “point” is also somewhat lacking. You write that in 1891 Ellen White worshiped on Sunday (on Samoan water). That seems to be an imaginary tale. She kept the Sabbath when it was Saturday according to ship time. It sems that naval time is not always the same as time on land. When ships dock they will go by the time on the land where they dock — as all sensible people do.
Could you please document George Tenney’s being on Samoa in 1888, even if you can’t document his Sunday keeping? (The”George Tenney” that would be the most likely candidate would be the George Tenney who was in charge of the publishing house at Melbourne when Ellen White was in Australia.) I’m really interested in documenting the history of the Sabbath in the South Pacific.
This is what I found at the SPD website:
That doesn’t seem to make allowance for George Tenney in 1888. Was Joseph Marsh the missionary who arrived on the American-built Pitcairn in 1891? If so, it would be natural for him to be keeping American time.
I am not convinced that ancient mistakes become truth with age. Truth must be based on something better than a couple people believing something to be so.
However, you are inadvertently stating that before 1892, the Samoan 7-day cycle is just what it is now. So it is more likely to be the cycle that can be traced back to the time of Christ –and you have made the point that an uninterrupted cycle is important. Thus, according to your own argument of an uninterrupted cycle, Samoans should have been worshiping on the day that is currently called Saturday all along.
Seems that this post is long enough already and further critique of David Tasker’s paper will have to wait for another time.
Talofa. I must concur with the rational explanation Inge has given above. I especially think something she said bears repeating:
“Western Samoa did not “change the order of the days” any more than you “change the order of the days” when you cross the date line in your travels. You simply adjust to the local time, wherever you are.”
If you picture Samoa as a traveller which has travelled across the dateline (twice now) then it becomes easy to see how adapting to the time on the side of the dateline you now occupy will serve to keep us in harmony with the commandment to keep the Sabbath on the seventh day. Remember too, as my aunt who was a Sabbath School teacher used to say, “They are the Ten Commandments, not the Ten Helpful Suggestions.”
The link given by Viliami to the “history” of Samoa is interesting but the conclusions are preplexing. The history simply shows WHERE the missionaries were coming from, not that Sunday keeping churches were keeping Saturday in Samoa or Tonga.
Quote:
“In Samoa, the first Adventist contact was on the 19th May 1888, when George Tenney, an Adventist worker from the US on his way to Australia noticed Sunday worship being observed on the 7th day Sabbath.”
That’s not surprising at all — The Adventist came from America and couldn’t understand why Sunday was on his Saturday in Samoa.
This just goes to show that in 1888 Samoa was operating in the same time zone as Australia. (Not on the American side of the timeline) The same as it is now in 2012.
Quote: “2nd Aug, 1891 Joseph Marsh, captain of the Pitcairn, together with a few colleagues, hired a house in Apia for three weeks and began selling and distributing literature. They found that the LMS Churches in SAMOA were worshipping on the 7th Day but were calling it SUNDAY.”
Once again we find the ship which was built in California, with its American captain and crew being surprised to see the London Missionary Society (a Sunday keeping society) in Samoa worshipping on Sunday (which he thought was Saturday).
Again — obviously Samoa was operating in the same time zone as Australia. (Not on the American side of the date line)
Quote: The “Pitcairn” also visited Tonga briefly in 1891. Again literature was sold and distributed, and again the visiting Adventists found that the Methodist Churches in TONGA were worshipping on the 7th day but were calling that day SUNDAY.”
Same thing — The Methodists (a Sunday keeping Church) in Tonga were worshipping on Sunday which the Americans thought was Saturday.
Again simply showing these islands were operating on the Australian side of the date line.
In 1892 the king in Samoa, Malietoa Laupepa decided that Samoa should be in the Western Hemisphere with the USA. So this was NOT the true position that was established from time past but a NEW position due to American influence — this was an imposition — The first CHANGE. Of course the American missionaries were comfortable with it because it coincided with America’s position, but it is NOT the original day that WAS Sabbath or Sunday on the islands.
I find it most strange that the author of that article tries to say all these people (Sunday keeping churches) were worshipping on the 7th day Sabbath prior to these Islands changing their times. Why does the author refuse to acknowledge the OBVIOUS! These Islands were all on the Australian side of the dateline before America pulled them over to their side.
So now — they are back in the time zone where they were before American (or England claiming to be the center of earth’s time) intervention. If anyone wants to be consistent with the historical placement they should be welcoming the change back, not trying to continue in the changed times.
Dear Ulrike,
I believe the confusion can be easily lifted if we can see that there are 2 parties here, with 2 different 7-day cycles?
When SDA missionaries enter Samoa before the IDL change in 1892, they knew exactly where Saturday was, but DELIBERATELY choose to rest (Sabbath) on the day the Samoans call Sunday, and for good reasons. They, like many good SDA today believe that the 7-day cycle of the bible is INDEPENDENT of the pagan named 7-day cycle. They decided this is where the Sabbath is, but this day is called by the local/Samoan Sunday.
So before the change in 1892, SDA worship (Sabbath) on the same day as all the other Churches in Samoa. That’s right, SDA, Catholics, Church of England, LDS, etc all worship on SUNDAY in Samoa. We understand why the other churches worship on Sunday, because they are faithfully following the pagan name day call Sunday, whereas SDA are quite different, for we don’t follow the pagan name day call Saturday, but the bible name day call the 7th day.
Fast forward to 2012, the SDA are doing exactly the same thing, worshiping on the same day (technically it’s not the same day) as all the other churches, and that day is? SUNDAY (big part of Sunday and a small part of Saturday).
Sunday worshippers are observing a great portion of the 7th day of the bible, or in another word, Sunday is now placed on top of a big part of the 7th day of the bible.
God bless.
Well, Viliami, I suppose one could reason it that way. But the reality is — one group (the original group) was counting 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, based on the fact that they came to the Islands from the Eastern Hemisphere of the globe, while the missionaries in the historical quotes came from America (the western Hemisphere).
Each group was counting 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, to determine their seven day week, both were right according to the Hemisphere from which they arrived.
Did you know there were American missionaries that went as far as the Philippians and carried their seven day count with them, putting the Philippian Islands a whole day out of time with the nations around them? That doesn’t mean these American’s were carrying the correct Sabbath with them. It just means they wanted to be in with American time even though they were in the eastern hemisphere.
The problem isn’t with counting to seven. The problem is that at some point in the Pacific there is a dateline. It is real even if it’s exact location is arbitrary.
Personally, I think if anyone wants to be technical as to where the dateline is Biblically, then the Prime Meridian or line 0 should be in Jerusalem, not in Greenwich England. Jerusalem was God’s center in the past, and it will again be God’s center when the New Jerusalem descends upon the earth.
This places the dateline about 35 decrees closer to America. It would put Alaska in the eastern Hemisphere as well as the Hawaii and Samoa etc.
Actually Alaska WAS in the eastern hemisphere until just over a hundred years ago when America bought Alaska from the Russians. Americans record this date as Friday 18 October 1867, whereas the Russian governor would have recorded it as Saturday.
So many of these Islands and even Alaska were on the seven day eastern week UNTIL America pulled them over onto the American seven day week.
Now you are saying the American seven day week is the creation week for these Islands, they must count their days in accord with America? — I’m not at all convinced. The day may have begun in these Islands, not ended – thus they would count their seven days according to the eastern hemisphere.
I think the American (western hemisphere)day (with its seven day week count) ends somewhere off the American Pacific coast, and there the Asian (Eastern Hemisphere) seven day week count begins. The western hemisphere being west of Jerusalem, the eastern hemisphere being east of Jerusalem.
So – I find the new position of the timeline for Samoa is closer to the ideal and I definitely support those who worship on Saturday.
I also find the advice of our pioneers is to accept the international dateline where it is placed, to avoid confusion, for we don’t really know exactly where in the Pacific it is.
Viliami said: “They, like many good SDA today believe that the 7-day cycle of the bible is INDEPENDENT of the pagan named 7-day cycle.”
Viliami, I agree with those who have already pointed out that the secular names do not impact the cycle in any way.
Based on the premised you have stated, could you please answer the following questions?
If, as you say, there are many good SDA that believe that there are two 7-day cycles, and that these cycles are completely unrelated or independent of one another, then why is it that on over 99% of the planet, the 7th day Sabbath also coincides with what English speakers will refer to as Saturday?
How could such alleged independence lead to such consistent synchronization of the day that people call Saturday with the Biblical Sabbath in almost every single country of the world?
Dear Viliami,
I hope that you are well. Your fervour is commendable.
You stated that Abraham and others never worshiped on a Saturday. Well, of course we understand that the day didn’t have that name in Bible times. On the other hand, whether we see the name as a pagan incursion or as relatively harmless, it seems to be a fact of life that people have chosen to use “Saturday” as the present-day name for the 7th day of the week. All of our SDA evangelists preach that our present weekly cycle can be traced back to well before the time of Christ. So it would appear that our current “Saturday” is indeed the day which Abraham and the others observed as God’s holy Sabbath.
Viliami
Malo Lelei
You must have been busy with your research, hehe — as long as you don’t quote Dr. Tasker as exposed by Inge.
Just reading the above posts. Especially Ulrike suggests the early missionaries, mainly from the US, weren’t familiar with the idl & got the locals to worship on Sunday by mistake.
Samoa’s case is a cover-up of the earlier mistake in which the church, through the local Samoa Mission, are applying unchristian tactics to achieve their plan.
SPD and GC, do the right thing — stop wasting the church’s and members’ precious time and resources because of your poor decisions.
Dear Jenkins,
When you say that those early (American) missionaries to the islands were unfamiliar with the IDL, I feel that this is likely an overstatement. I think one must bear in mind that these missionaries arrived in the islands shortly after the 1884 conference, where an international committee had coined the misnomer, “International Dateline.”
While the 1884 committee stopped short of forcing their ideas on any unwilling societies or governments, I believe it is clear that they intended to promote a uniform date line adhering closely to the 180th meridian. Persuaded by American traders, Samoa co-operated with this effort in 1892. The fact that they chose to implement the change by repeating Monday, the 4th of July, may support the thought that the American public was foremost in adopting and promoting these new ideas for the date line. From the comfort of an office chair in the U.S.A., it must have been very easy to ignore all of those “messy” little Pacific islands, and to wax enthusiastic about how convenient it was that Greenwich had been chosen as the international mean time, and that the opposite (180th) meridian just happened to run right down the middle of the broad Pacific.
Of course this dream, this theory or doctrine of the date line, arose from secular society. It had absolutely nothing to do with religion or the Bible, nor was it based on any real natural phenomenon.
When we read, in the published SPD documents, about various parties and individuals visiting Tonga or Samoa, and noting that the “wrong” days were being observed, I’m not sure how well documented these stories actually are. Nevertheless, to the extent that the stories are factual, it should be clear that the parties involved had unfortunately bought into the secular (American?) date line theory or doctrine. Only thus could the Asian week have been deemed “wrong,” or incorrect, if observed in Samoa before 1892 (or in Tonga). Again, there would have been no basis whatsoever for calling the Asian week in Samoa morally wrong! Nor was there ever any religious or Biblical basis for promoting the 180th meridian as an absolute standard. It was evidently just the way most Americans were (arrogantly) thinking at the time.
So, yes Jenkins, it does seem clear that those early missionaries lacked a clear understanding of the IDL. To say that they got the locals to worship on Sunday “by mistake” strikes me as quite an understatement. It was unquestionably a massive blunder. To cover it up would require elevating the 180th meridian to the level of a virtual divine institution – at the very least, a natural phenomenon – which is what we seem to find in the SPD documents. I second your call for our church leadership to turn around and just do the right thing.
Talofa Jenkins,
Thanks for your translation of the letter by the president of the SM, Uili Solofa.
I guess, time will tell what will become of this situation? But we know that the Lord will be vindicated in the end.
I am having a stomach ache laughing at your comment to the SPD and GC, which is seconded by R G White and supported by John Wallace. I hope they will see your comment (and others) as I do?
These men and women are our leaders; we (you and me) chose them. In another word, God chose them. Why did we choose them? Because we KNOW they are let by God’s Spirit. Let’s continue to trust them and support them after all we trusted and supported them in the first place.
God bless
Dear Viliami, I’d like to point out that God also chose King Saul. And, for that matter, King David.
Was the numbering of the people as recorded in 1 Chronicles 21 in accordance with God’s will simply because God had chosen David?
The Bible is full of examples of people who were chosen by God — sometimes very directly — and then either made mistakes or completely abandoned the path.
We don’t believe in “once saved always saved,” nor should we accept the premise that “once chosen = always correct.” That’s why the Bible tells us, “if they speak not according to this Word…”
Brother Viliami, Limoni, and others.
There is a lot the church leaders have to answer for in how they arrived at their decision. I am suspecting that because the powers that be had not corrected the Sabbath issue in Tonga as they should have years before, they have decided to drag Samoa into those same “questionable” and “suspicious” interpretations to justify their past decisions.
I also find the Scripture texts, Spirit of Prophecy quotations, and the logic of the arguments used to support Samoa keeping the same Sabbath as Tonga to be unsound, unconvincing, and illogical. The arguments used raise a lot more questions than answers. May be you can help me with some of them.
1) Can you show me in Scripture or Spirit of Prophecy (or other) where the 180° longitude line is mentioned as a God-ordained dividing line for the start and the end of what we today would consider a day? Can you pinpoint for me from the World Atlas also where the daily and the weekly cycle for Creation started? A Garden of Eden Date Line if you like that would confirm this “supposedly” unbroken cycle or sequence of days from creation, down to Jesus, and now to Samoa in 2012 argument that the Samoa Mission and the SPD are trying very hard to defend.
3) If Samoa and Tonga have got the “7th” day of the week correct based on the 180° line, then any SDAs on parts of the Fiji Islands (e.g Taveuni ), parts of New Zealand (e.g. Chatham Islands?), parts of Russia (e.g the Chukchi Peninsula) which are on the east of the 180° line would be observing the wrong Sabbath day for they would be or are currently keeping the 7th day Saturday Sabbath with Australia and NZ who are on the west of the 180° line, when they are actually geographically positioned on the east of the 180° line.
On the other hand, any SDAs in some parts of the Kiribati (e.g Tarawa) and parts of the Aleutian Islands of Alaska, would be keeping the wrong Sabbath also for they would be on the west of the 180° line, while observing the same 7th Day Saturday Sabbath as the countries on the east such as Canada and the USA. Can you respond to these very clear inconsistencies? It seems the SPD is happy to accept the IDL as the measure for such places as Fiji and NZ, while insisting on the 180° for other places like Samoa, Tonga and Kiribati. Can someone please explain?
4) Can you prove to me either scientifically, Biblically, or other, that those rays of the sun actually change from being the “sun rays” of one day to being “sun rays” of the next day as they go over the 180° longitude line? In other words, is there any proof that the sun’s rays change from being Saturday “sun rays” to Sunday “sun rays” as they go over the 180° longitude line? And how does it happen? Last time I checked, the same rays of the sun that shine on Samoa and Tonga on the east of the 180° line also shine on Fiji, NZ and other countries on the western side of the 180° line, yet your arguments seem to suggest that the 180° line is a clear definitive line that clearly, with divine approval, separates the east from the west.
As I remember it from Scripture, God’s method for measuring a day for us earth-dwellers is from sunset to sunset. Can you prove to me then that the sun actually sets on the 180° longitude line, and that a new day begins there also? Correct me if I’m wrong, but as I remember it, it’s the earth that actually rotates round its own axis and not the Sun that moves, meaning all those places such as Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, NZ, and Australia would be illuminated by the same rays of the sun regardless of which side of the 180° line they are on. Unless of course there is an invisible special wall running down the 180° line that no scientist, nor x-ray machine, nor any other person can detect (except of course for the Samoa Mission, SPD, and some other Adventists who seem to see it with some special secret UV detecting machine yet to be unveiled to the world).
5) Are all the Christian denominations in Samoa and Tonga now Seventh-day Adventists because they keep the same Sabbath as SDAs and because they all believe in Jesus Second Coming? Like Constantine when he marched his armies through water and considered them “baptised” Christians? Furthermore, what would make them want to change denominations anymore (if that is what we want to do) since there is no more “sign”, as per Ezekiel, to differentiate our church from theirs?
6) Finally what do you make of the many Spirit of Prophecy statements clearly mentioning Sabbath and Sunday as two very different days, with SUNDAY being clearly stated as the wrong Sabbath? Not Seventh-day Sunday, nor New Sabbath Sunday, nor Old-Saturday-New-Sabbath-180-degree-inspired-Sunday, nor whatever other Sunday you wish to make of it, but simply and explicitly SUNDAY as the whole world understands that day to be. For example, “We are to warn men and women against the worship of the beast and his image—against the worship of the idol Sunday.” (Manuscript 110, 1904). Are we going to try and discredit such clear and explicit statements also through some more “questionable” and “suspicious” interpretations? Or maybe the prophet was wrong all along and that we now have new modern prophets who are more correct and more inspired than His messenger?
My understanding is simple. The IDL was created by man for man’s benefit with the whole world accepting it as the standard line of reference for the measuring and counting of days. Even the SDA church worldwide accepts its existence and follow it accordingly – well almost all SDAs!! I am assuming of course that we in other parts of the world are following the seven-day cycle and sequence of days that the whole world recognises, which by the way uses the IDL as its reference line – and not the 180° line as the SPD and Samoa Mission are arguing. As I’m sure you are all well informed of by now, the reason the IDL was put “by man” through the Pacific is because it is mainly ocean and sparsely populated, and it was and is still the IDL, with all its bends and zigzags, that the whole world recognises and accepts as its standard measure of where a day begins and ends, NOT the 180° line. And because the IDL is the accepted line for the measuring of days by the whole world, including SDAs in all other parts of the world (who accept Saturday as determined by the IDL as the Seventh-day Sabbath), I believe SDAs in Samoa should also follow and accept the IDL as its line of reference, if they are to be consistent with the whole world and with their 17 or so million SDA brothers and sisters around the world.
Also, the IDL and the 180° longitude line were created by man and can be moved and removed at any time by the powers that be, as we have seen in history. We therefore cannot be overly dogmatic about a line (or lines) we don’t actually see in reality but only exist as geographical markers on a map or coordinates on a GPS unit. The most logical and most commonsensical thing to do then is to follow the seven day sequence of days as determined by the local context, which we know is determined by its position in relation to the IDL, with its seventh day equivalent to be consistent with what all other SDAs around the world accepts as the seventh-day, which would be Saturday in my understanding.
Looking forward to reading your responses.
Brother Siaosi,
You are raising a lot of questions here, and I may need to write a book to deal with it.
I believe I have already deal with the majority of your questions already. You may have to re-read some/all the comments already made?
I believe there’s nothing wrong with the Sabbath in Tonga or Western Samoa, so there’s no need to correct it.
Answer for question 1)
Please read my answer to Andrew Baker and R G White who have already asked me this question.
You didn’t have a question 2)
Answer for question 3)
God’s Spirit works thru people, Godly people. God being a God of order directs the leaders back then to send J, E. Fulton, as a missionary to Fiji. Today Taveuni like Suva and the rest of Fiji is worshiping on the right Sabbath. Why? Because God working thru the General Conference and also working thru the South Pacific Division leaders show/tells us this is God’s will. The same principle applies to Chathan Islands, Chukchi Peninsula, Tarawa, etc.
Please consider this: Has God now (2012) stopped working thru the GC, SPD, missionaries and great leaders of the past to now work with individuals, such as you, R G White and Andrew Baker?
Answer for question 4)
I am taking the OTHER n Biblically (not scientifically): Please look at my answer for question 3, for it is the same answer I would give for your question 4. God is still working thru the leaders of the SDA Church.
Answer for question 5)
All other Christian denominations in Samoa and Tonga are Sunday keepers. Meaning they follow Sunday from 12 midnight to 12 midnight. It’s really 1 hour of worship on Sunday for the majority of them. They also are not keeping the Sabbath from Sunset to 12 midnight. God require a 24 hour day from sunset to sunset.
7th day Adventist in Samoa and Tonga are not Sunday keepers.
SDA do not keep Sunday from 12 midnight to 12 midnight, rather it is only by CO-INCIDENCE that human 1st day of the week and bible 7th day of the week overlap. Remember Man’s 7th (Saturday) day is also not a perfect match with bible 7th day, for they ONLY PARTLY OVERLAP each other.
If we say that SDA in Samoa and Tonga are Sunday (sun god) keepers because they follow the bible 7th day which overlap with Sunday (man’s 1st day) then SDA in Samoan and Tonga who keep Saturday are Saturday (god of the planet Saturn) keepers.
Catholic and LDS (Mormons) both worship on EXACTLY the same day, hour, minute and seconds. Does that keep Catholics away from becoming LDS? Or vise versa?
I am sure the sign (SDA) is still there.
Is there some kind of paranoia with Sunday, but not Saturday (favorite)? Both these days are of pagan origin.
God bless
“Please consider this: Has God now (2012) stopped working thru the GC, SPD, missionaries and great leaders of the past to now work with individuals, such as you, R G White and Andrew Baker?”
Then the Pharisees answered them, “Are you also deceived? Have any of the rulers or the Pharisees believed in Him? But this crowd that does not know the law is accursed.” John 7:47-49 (NKJV)
Same argument?
Dear R G White,
I am glad you mention the Pharisees, because in Jesus’ time they got the “Sabbath Day” RIGHT for sure. And it seems that according to you, you are identifying the GC, SPD, missionaries and great leaders of the past with the Pharisees? and may I remind you, that they(GC, SPD etc) still got the Sabbath (Sunday in Samoa) day RIGHT.
Did you know that the only Jew who was in Western Samoa continue to keep the 7th day Sabbath, not on Saturday but on Sunday, just like the rest of the SDA in Samoa? This is what he said concerning the Sabbath day in Samoa after the IDL change.
While The Associated Press reported that the Seventh Day Adventist parish in Samatau village will continue to observe Saturday as the Sabbath, Radio New Zealand International indicated that most Seventh Day Adventist churches will adopt Sunday as the new day of rest.
“I will follow their lead and light Shabbos candles on Saturday night,” Lapushin told JTA.
In a way, Lapushin’s decision seems fitting.
“When you talk about being Jewish,” Lapushin explained, “people say, ‘Oh, you’re Seventh Day Adventist!’”
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/12/30/3090969/samoa-calendar-change-impacts-sabbath-but-affects-few
God bless
Viliami,
You cannot say Sunday keeping Tongan and Samoan Adventists do not keep Sunday simply because they begin at Saturday sunset, while saying Saturday Sabbath keepers keep Saturday in honour of the pagan god Saturn. Remember the Sabbath begins the evening before also. You are stating a contradiction. The greatest pagan god is the sun. Why would any Adventist want to keep any part of the Sun-day, paganism’s highest day? It is a work day, according to the commandment.
Viliami,
In Joshua 10:13 . . .
The sun stood still, adding a whole day to the calendar, but we do not see any record of the believers in those days worshiping on a different Sabbath to preserve the “seven-day sequence.” There is a Bible precedent for it. Be true to the calendar, don’t call it a change when it is not. Please look at your calendars. The 2012 calendar which you received in 2011 will work fine in spite of the loss of Friday 30th December. There was no calendar change. You can keep all the 2012 appointments you made before that.
Dear John,
Last year Hawaii (SATURDAY), American Samoa (SATURDAY) and Western Samoa (SATURDAY), all worship (SDA-SABBATH) on the SAME DAY.
This year they (SDA) all still worship (SDA-SABBATH) on the same day, Hawaii (SATURDAY), American Samoa (SATURDAY) and Western Samoa (SUNDAY).
This is a very good decision by our church leaders of today, not forgetting our pioneers and missionaries of the past who did exactly that. Talk about being biblical and consistency!
God bless
WOW! I am respectfully amazed by the amount of response.
Please be patient and allow me a little bit of time, as I will try my best to respond to all your queries.
God bless
Hi Viliami
I am a fan of yours because you are the only one courageous enough to debate the error of introducing sunday worship into our end time church.While worshipping today we were visited by a mission representative and asked to resign from the church.
We love our church and the mission will have to disfellowship us if that is what they want.The lighthouse group and Samatau will continue to stand strong for Gods seventh day Sabbath, and will continue to develop small groups and outreach meetings in the near future.
Dear Lance
We have no more or less introduce “Sunday” worship then you introduce “Saturday” worship into our end time church. Sunday is name after the god of the Sun and Saturday is named after the god of Saturn. If anyone is thinking/reasoning that we are worshipping the god of the sun just because we identify Sunday with the 7th day of the bible, then they MUST BE worshipping the god of Saturn by declaring that the Sabbath is on Saturday only.
But the fact is, we do not follow Sunday nor Saturday, but the 7th day of the bible which can fall on any other day of the week. I hope that you can clearly see that?
On a more serious note, I am feeling for all of you who are directly (in Samoa) affected by this IDL change. I cannot say that I know how you guys are feeling at the moment, for I can only imagine what you are going thru. I just hope and pray that by God’s GRACE, you will all come together once more just like it used to be.
God bless
Dear Viliami,
I thought I’d re-visit this question by using different words: Yes, you are keeping the seventh day of the week on the other side of the date line from the one where you live. That is, you are keeping Sabbath according to American time. The problem with that is that, according to local time, that is the first day of the week, also usually called Sunday.
If there were no society around you that had a set calendar and way of reckoning time, it probably wouldn’t matter which day you kept as Sabbath, since either day could be reckoned as the Sabbath, depending on where you begin your counting of days. However when you are living in a society where the day on which you worship is the first day of the week, your witness would appear to be compromised. How can the first day of the week be a sign between you and God and a sign visible to the society where you live, when God asked you to keep holy the seventh day of the week?
I am looking at this discussion and I am saddened at the entirety of it. (I include myself in this analysis).
What does it suggest about our church and the Sabbath itself? What a burden it has become!; and I think this is as a direct result of our view of the kind of person God is.
Our view of God has predisposed the SDA church to several pitfalls that I am confident (in a sad way) we won’t ever escape. In other words I am extremely pessimistic about it.
What day is it?
Is it the right day?
What times?
6:00AM TO 6:00PM?
What about the dateline?
What to do in Scandinavia?
Can I cook?
Can I rollerblade?
And among other things a perpetual and persistent paranoia about upcoming “threats” (read: Sunday Laws) from every conceivable angle.
Is this really the blessing God gave to man?
Andrew,
The Sabbath is very simple. It is the day between Friday (preparation day / crucifixion) and Sunday (first day of the week / resurrection day), observed from sunset to sunset. The Samoas-Tokelau Mission and the South Pacific Division, by their determination that a “calendar change” has taken place, have made it complicated when it is not. Also, by misinterpreting historic errors and adding them into the mix, confusion has multiplied.
Sorry if you see all these posts as making a burden out of the Sabbath. Unfortunately a lot of irrelevant material is always found in internet forums. They don’t represent the views of all church members. the vast majority of members have no concern about this issue because they are not affected. However they ought to show some concern because the decision to worship on Sunday reflects on the world-wide SDA Church.
Sunday law is happening all over the world, I just copied this from
“Prophetic Intelligence Briefings”
Sunday Rest in Israel? · March 02, 2012
Not long now, but true Sabbath keepers have some hard times ahead in the near future. Stay strong, Come soon Lord Jesus!
One has to be careful how this is interpreted. The original discussion took place around the middle of 2011 and I have not seen any update on the Israel discussion sites since then. (that may just be that I have not looked hard enough – but the original sources do not seem to have any updates) There has been plenty of commentary on Sabbath-keeping sites though, but that commentary is clearly interpretive.
Interestingly enough, the Israeli sites that commented on it last year, were not promoting it as a religious holiday but as a day for shopping and recreation. Part of the issue is that people will want to work on Sunday because they will want the extra pay that working on a weekend day entails (I presume that it will be something like x1.5). Depending on whether you are an employee or employer you will regard this as a good thing.
I wonder if our focus on Sunday laws has sometimes blurred our vision of other closer issues that are affecting our church. A perceived future danger may draw our eyes from a very real danger lurking closer to us. The devil has many devious strategies encouraging us to take our eyes off the light.
It has, Maurice. I do hope we can escape it.
Some people seem awfully hung up on the names of the days of the week. I only call Saturday by that name because I need other English-speakers to understand to what day I’m referring. If I’m speaking Spanish, I say sábado which certainly isn’t named after any pagan god. Guess where that name came from? The name of the day is not especially relevant, its position in the week is. Ask any Jew when the Sabbath falls. Jews will show no hesitation in equating it with the day English-speakers refer to as Saturday. Keep it simple, people. Talk about the folly of wise men and the wisdom of fools.
The Saturday/Sunday issue continues to enjoy popularity both here and other Adventist forums. I guess that many participate in the hope that they will win the “other” side to their way of thinking. But in reality the scene is set for it to continue for a long time to come. The issues are more complex than most participants understand and include but are not limited to Adventist and island history, Polynesian relationships and culture, Church and constituency expectations and attitudes, and a bit of interference from those who are sure they have the answers.
I am not going to pretend that I have a solution. I have a view which I would argue is correct, but sometimes being correct is not the answer. I want to highlight the losers in this discussion:
1) Tolerance and understanding: There are essentially two points of view that I am not going to review here as we all know what they are. There are arguments in support of both. Failing a clear direct voice from God we have to accept that both arguments have their strengths and weaknesses and both depend on the fundamental premise that you start with. Clearly we have to accept that situation and be willing to live with those whose views and conclusions are different. I find it distressing to hear of the threat of disfellowshipping believers because they have come to a different conclusion on this issue. While it would be convenient to have a solution, the current situation provides an opportunity to be tolerant and understanding of one another.
2) Worship: While arguing about the day, have we lost sight of who and why we worship? In these situations we often become so concerned about the cup that we forget about what it contains. Maybe it is time to return to worshiping the creator in a spirit of sharing and fellowship.
3) Our Young People: As a lecturer in Australia I am very much aware of the issues and temptations that Samoan and Tongan young people face. Many of them are children of the diaspora, torn between the pressure of family and culture on one side, and the tug of western lifestyle and friendship on the other. During the late teen/ young adult years these folk are making decisions for life. They are making decisions about their continued relationship with Christ against a background of uncertainty about the day of worship. For many of them, the easy solution is to walk away from religion altogether, and I have seen that happen. The obvious but unattainable solution would be to stop arguing and all accept one particular explanation. However, in the light of what has happened, we need to develop an bipartisan approach of teaching our young people to rise above the conflict in order to affirm their faith in Jesus. It does not matter which side is right if your children leave the church and lose their faith.
My prayer is that in spite of our differences, we will work together in unity in Christ.
Dr Maurice Ashton
Maurice,
Thank you for your important reminder about valuing people above issues. Many a Tongan youth would have been saved from oblivion if the Adventist Church there worshiped with the world church in honour of the Creator, rather than keeping Sunday in honour of their Adventist ancestors or pioneer missionaries. I don’t accept that agreement is unattainable. Many difficult issues have been argued vigorously over through the centuries and agreement has been attained. It seems obvious to me that pride is the great hurdle, but it can be overcome.
Imaging two people who keep the true Sabbath together, then they decide to travel to the other side of the globe. One of them travels east, the other travels west. Both of them are careful to keep track of the seven day cycle and keep the sabbath as they travel. When they meet on the other side, something strange has happened. They are now worshiping the Sabbath on different days. They both can claim that they carefully kept track of the days and they both believe that they are worshiping on the right day. The problem is that as they measure time. both are correct. This problem will occur nomatter where the starting point is on the globe.
What is happening is that as the person travelling west gets farther away from his starting point, Sabbath is occuring later and later relative to his starting point. With the person travelling east, teh opposite is occuring. His Sabbath is getting earlier and earlier as he travels. Eventually when they get to the otherside, they are both a day out relative to each other. One could claim that the other is keeping Sabbath on the Friday. The other could claim that his friend is now keeping Sunday.
How do they deal with this? As the sun sets, they are going to have to decide whether this point on the other side of the earth is the first point on the earth that sees the Sabbath or is it the last point on earth that sees the Sabbath. Both could be equally correct. In the case where there is a number of believers involved, it would be appropriate to take a vote on it. If the majority of believers choose a particular way, it would be prudent in this case follow the majority in faith, even if you disagree with the decision.
The alternative to this is setting up your own church in opposition to the will of God. From what I have read, I believe this is the situation that is happening in Samoa at the moment.
Thanks for that visual, Owen. Just for clarification, in Samoa today, which party do you believe is setting up their own church in opposition to the will of God?
I like your illustration Owen. But lets step back and take a panoramic view focusing on the Internatinal Date Line (IDL).
1) Lets say you flew from Australia (on Saturday) to Hawaii and arrive there on Saturday local time. You would have crossed the IDL as expected. You are then invited to preach at a local SDA church in Honolulu. Would you decline the invitation by saying you have already kept the Sabbath yesterday (Australian time)? Or go about go your normal business since you had your Sabbath? Or keep the Sabbath according to the locals?
2) Your reference to the “majority of believers” and “follow the majority”. I do not know the actual figures for baptised SDA members in Samoa or Tonga. For statistics sake, lets say Samoa has 7,000 on their roll and Tonga has 6,000. The 13,000 out of the 17,000,000 SDAs around the world (who accept the IDL as the starting point for their calendars) comes to 0.000764705 of a per cent. Who are the majority? Are there two standards applied here? One for the 17,000,000 and another for the 13,000?
Lets pray for the Lord to come soon as we need to keep and uplift one standard for all.
Thank you for your comment, Owen. Your illustration demonstrates the need for a dateline agreed upon by the governments of the world. Otherwise, according to your illustration, we would have individuals and groups having widely differing calendars – especially if they travel a lot.
Because the governments of various islands have decided how they wish their countries to be aligned relative to the dateline, the choice is not left up to individuals or individual groups. You imply correctly that near the dateline, either one of two days may be legitimately be identified as the Sabbath, depending on how a country wishes to align itself to the dateline.
When a government has made a law aligning its country relative to the dateline, churches do not have the right to renumber the days contrary to the decision of the government. Renumbering the days to make Sabbath on Sunday only causes mass confusion, and “Confusion” is the meaning of Babylon.
Can a church that participates in the confusion of Babylon call others out of Babylon?
My reason for contributing to this issue wasn’t so much for the sake of argument but rather in the hopes that the powers that be would rethink about doing what apparently they have decided to do — as we see by the following remark from a post by Lance –
So the tolerance level for people who want to keep the “Sabbath” stands pretty much at zero. The pressure is on to worship on SUNDAY or be cast out of the church that proclaims to keep the Sabbath?
The Sabbath reaches around the world, starting in the Pacific, travelling around the world and ending in the Pacific. The correct day for the Sabbath is established around the world — and it is the day before Sunday. Yes, across all seven continents there is unity in the Adventist church on which day is God’s holy 7th day.
But on the Islands there will never be unity in the “Seventh-day Adventist” church as long as the leadership insists the members worship on Sunday. Why? Because there are those who are convicted that this goes against everything most Adventist know about the endtime Great Controversy Issues.
To achieve unity by the 7th Day Adventist Church forcing out everyone who refuses to accept the 1st day as the Sabbath is actually a very scary precedent
Yes, this issue is discussed on other forums as well. One I lurked at had several posters jubilant in their ridicule over Adventists prophetic “mark of the beast” doctrine as supposedly being destroyed by what’s happening in the Islands.
An excellent article was written by J.N.Andrews many years ago on this issue. It’s too long to post here. But anyone can read it, for it’s on the internet. It’s called “The definite seventh day”. (The link goes to the document in PDF format.) Andrews wrote before the dateline was established and he was defending that a person can be on any of the continents and know definitely which day was the 7th day Sabbath. One of his arguments is that there is only one place on the globe where a person can draw a straight line from the north pole to the south pole without crossing any significant land mass and that this was God’s way of dividing the beginning of a day from the end of the day on a round world. That was through the Bering straits — which I looked up and found to be at about 168 decrees W.
I will keep praying the great Consolator on your behalf my brothers and sisters in Christ. We almost reach our blessing hope. Our loving Savior is coming do not compromise the true Sabbath which is the one that God had created to the false sabbath of the devil which is Sunday the first day of the week. Keep the light shine.
God be with you all!
This type of thing has happened in the past: Church leaders thinking they’re right and using force to prove it. BUT it is so unnecessary! It can all be overcome by surrendering. Admit “I was wrong,” ask forgiveness, and do right. We teach this idea every Sabbath . . . or do we?
Owen, a good illustration except for your conclusion: “In the case where there is a number of believers involved, it would be appropriate to take a vote on it. If the majority of believers choose a particular way, it would be prudent in this case follow the majority in faith, even if you disagree with the decision.”
Unfortunately democracy has become the new pope. That’s exactly how the Episcopalians ended up with a gay bishop! The question your two travellers would have to ask is, “what day do the locals call today?”
The dateline determines what day it is, the Bible determines where in the week the Sabbath is – between Friday and Sunday.
There is actually only one day of the week which could never be Sabbath – that’s Sunday.
You see God could have created the world on the first day and rested the second. But he could not create the world on the first day as well as rest that day. Of course Satan would choose that day as his false Sabbath
Dear Viliami,
You appear to have a theory concerning a numbering sequence that operates independently of the names of the days of the week. Of course, this implies an “absolute” date line differing from the generally accepted one. From what has been published on the SPD website, I perceive that this theoretical date line corresponds very closely to the 180th meridian.
There was a similar theory in Ellen White’s day, which she called the “day line theory.” (See The International Dateline) That theory proposed an absolute date line at a longitude running through a particular location in Armenia, where the Garden of Eden was thought to have once been. Because this theoretical date line was to the west of the generally accepted one, the theory would have resulted in “Sunday” being considered the true 7th day Sabbath in all parts of the world between Armenia and the generally accepted date line. This would have included at least Siberia, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, China, India, all of South-east Asia, Australia, New Zealand, Tonga, and many other Pacific islands and island groups – now including Samoa.
The present Sunday theory appears to be exactly the same in principle, the only difference being the extent of the affected area. It would essentially make “Sunday” the true 7th day Sabbath everywhere between the 180th meridian and the generally accepted date line.
What did Sister White have to say about the “day line theory?” She said that “we are not to give the least credence” to it. She called the theory “a snare of Satan, brought in… to confuse minds.” She said that it would make all of our past history (as Sabbath keepers) “a complete fallacy. “ She said, “You see how utterly impossible for this thing to be, that the world is all right observing Sunday, and God’s people are all wrong.” Please feel free to read more about it at Ellen White’s Writings In the “search” box, just type in, “The Date Line Problem.”
When I talk of the majority vote of believers, don’t we as a church decide matters of great importance, particularly matters of doctrine, via a general conference session where the majority vote is binding?
We pray that the God will be present and that he will direct the decisions made by these meetings and we have to take it in faith that He does.
At the end of the day, the precident is that Samoa has measured the 7 day cycle in line with the western hemisphere and should coninue to do so. I will state my reasons below.
We seem to get caught up with this concept that sunday worship is the mark of the beast. Mark my words here, it is bigger than this. The Bible says that beast will attempt to change times and laws. Sunday is not mentioned. It was the changing of times and laws by the papacy that resulted in Sunday worship in Europe. It is the changing of times and laws or adhering to these changes in matters of worship that is the mark of the beast.
The 7 day cycle is already set, you cannot change it. When is the correct Sabbath? The answer is 7 days after the last one and repeating the cycle back to time began. In the case of Samoa, this is reckoned according to the way the western hemisphere measures the 7 day cycle. At the moment it happens that the Sunday keeping churches, by some whim of govenment decision, have aligned themselves to the true Sabbath. But for how long?
The argument that we need to keep a different day so that we can be different doesn’t hold water. This is the thinking process of a pharisee. God makes us different, we dont. It is God working within us and changing our lives to his will that makes us different. Keeping a different day just to be different is self righteousness.
I know my words are strong. To make it clear what I am saying, changing the day of worship to ANY OTHER DAY as a result of some whim of government who changes times or laws is a sign of receiving the mark of the beast.
Owen Brunker wrote:
I believe that is why Seventh-day Adventists keep the seventh day (Saturday) throughout the world.
Owen, you seem to imply that the Seventh-day Adventist church in general session voted that Seventh-day Adventists in Tonga, Kiribati, Wallis, Futuna, and now Samoa & Tokelau should worship on Sunday, rather than Saturday. That is new to me. Could you please supply the facts regarding this: Which session(s)? Where can the records be found? (I am really interested in the history of the Sabbath in the Pacific islands.)
Unless you can point me to such a decision by the world-wide church, Adventist believers in these islands are out of harmony with the Seventh-day Adventist church world-wide.
As for Samoa and Tokelau, it seems clear that the decision seems to have been based on the opinions of a few men whose views you represent.
FACT: Samoa measured its 7-day cycle in line with Asia before 1892, when it was persuaded by American trading partners to switch to the American reckoning of time.
OPINION: Samoa should continue on the post-1892 American reckoning of time.
FACT: Governments have the authority to align their countries relative to the date line, which is an arbitrary line, like the boundaries of a nation. Either side of the line, the seventh day is what is commonly called Saturday.
Saturday is historically the seventh day throughout the world and therefore the Sabbath day, according to the Bible. On the eastern side of the IDL, Seventh-day Adventists keep Sabbath on Saturday during a time period overlapping that in America. On the western side of the IDL, Seventh-day Adventists keep the seventh-day Saturday Sabbath the same time as folks in Fiji, Solomon Islands, New Zealand, Australia and Asia.
FACT: The Seventh-day Adventist church does not have the authority to align countries relative to the date line.
FACT: Refusing to observe the 7-day cycle of the country in which they reside puts Seventh-day Adventists in the strange and confusing position of worshiping on the day that is the sign of the authority of the Roman church, in contrast to the seventh-day Sabbath which God calls His sign.
FACT: Babylon literally means “confusion (by mixing)” It comes from the name of the tower where the languages of the people were “confused.”
QUESTION: How can the Seventh-day Adventist church preach the message, “Come out of her [Babylon], my people, so that you will not be partakers of her sins,” when the church itself is confused over which day is the Sabbath?
Inge, the document produced by David Tasker states as follows:
== Start Quote ===================
The statement formulated by SPD and endorsed by the GC states:
As there is a general sense of agreement with present practice in the Pacific
islands, and as any attempt to change would create serious and complicated
pastoral problems,
And as the present calendar is subject to change by any future government at
any time, as has recently occurred in Kiribati
We recommend that the present practice of Sabbath keeping in the Pacific
Islands around the dateline be maintained.
(This statement appears in full in the 2101 edition of the Church Manual in the
Supplementary pages at the back.
== End Quote ==================================
Maybe I am misinformed on this, but doesn’t anything placed in the Church Manual have to be approved by a General Conference Session?
If this is the case, then the topic will have been discussed and decided on by a General Conference Session at some time.
Inge Anderson Wrote,
FACT: Samoa measured its 7-day cycle in line with Asia before 1892, when it was persuaded by American trading partners to switch to the American reckoning of time.
Why has it become a problem now. Surely Ellen White would have said something if there was an issue with using the American reckoning of time in Samoa, especially if it results in keeping the wrong day as the Sabbath? Anyway
Inge Anderson Wrote,
FACT: Governments have the authority to align their countries relative to the date line, which is an arbitrary line, like the boundaries of a nation.
They do at that. They could also decide to call the days of the week any name they wanted to as well if they had the support of the people behind them. But as my God is unchanging, so is the Sabbath. It will always be 7 days after the previous one.
Inge Anderson Wrote,
FACT: The Seventh-day Adventist church does not have the authority to align countries relative to the date line.
Has anyone said that the church does? But the fact remains that a precident has been set in the past with worshipers worshipers remembering the Seventh Day in line with the Western Hemisphere. So keep it that way.
Inge Anderson Wrote,
FACT: Refusing to observe the 7-day cycle of the country in which they reside puts Seventh-day Adventists in the strange and confusing position of worshiping on the day that is the sign of the authority of the Roman church, in contrast to the seventh-day Sabbath which God calls His sign.
The Roman Church claims that they have the power to change the Sabbath as they see fit. In doing so they put themselves above God. It is the same spirit at work that allows the other Christian churchs to re-align their worship day at the whim of a govenment. The Sabbath doesn’t change for the whim of anybody. It will always be 7 days after the previous one.
Inge Anderson Wrote,
FACT: Babylon literally means “confusion (by mixing)” It comes from the name of the tower where the languages of the people were “confused.”
Yes, and confusion is caused when short sighted people take objection to something just because they themselves don’t like it. Then try to justify their position by all sorts of arguments.
Owen said: “The Sabbath doesn’t change for the whim of anybody. It will always be 7 days after the previous one.”
There are clearly documented situations where there are more or less than 7 days between one Sabbath and the next, such as when a person traverses the dateline and either ends up with 6 days between one Sabbath and the other, or 8 days between one Sabbath and the other.
This situation is clearly a variation of this same concept which could have been applied here without violating any Biblical principles, yet wasn’t.
Dear Owen,
You quoted David Tasker’s paper:
Then you wrote:
So you motivated me do a little research.
It seems that the Church Manuals for the various divisions of the world church all have a supplement specific to the division. The one for the North American division deals with church property ownership, trust services and other matters related to local laws — things that would vary from division to division but have no effect on doctrine. On p. 19 of the 2010 Church Manual, you will find this:
Note that these Division Supplements are not voted by the General Conference in session, but are only submitted to the “General Conference Committee” for endorsement. Even the Manual itself does not have the authority of the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy, but the Division Supplements are clearly additions approved by just a few human beings, and human beings can make mistakes.
Note that the statement approved by the Autumn Council Action of 1948 allowed only for additional matter applicable to the Divisions that would “not in any way” modify the contents of the Church Manual.
It can certainly be argued that a Supplement that advocates keeping a different Sabbath from that kept in all other Seventh-day Adventist churches on this planet goes well beyond the mandate provided by that particular Autumn Council Action. The SPD Supplement advocate that certain island nations keep not only a different day of the local week, but a different day of the calendar accepted by nations world-wide. That’s hardly a minor matter applicable only to the local Division, wouldn’t you say?
Owen,
What do you beleive should happen to this group of misfits, who you say have the mark of the beast because they choose not to follow the majority and instead they follow Gods calling and worship on saturday.
I know it is annoying to be challenged, and have error exposed. Less and less we hear about the 7 day cycle since creation because it has been obvious that as a day was added in 1892 then this is obviously impossible. And why would the Samoan govt have added a day if the country was already aligned with America,OR was it only the church and the missionaries back in 1892 that were aligned with America???
Now all sunday observance arguements hang on what day the early missionaries thought they were worshipping on.
We are living at the midnight hour in this dying world and this is not the time to become immersed in sunday worship. I also see how there is no real importance put on outreach and standing out from the churches of the world, because( when we are all honest) there was no outreach anyway.
This is truly time for revival and refining, like the Israelites of old when false worship was embraced God didnt immediately lift HIS loving hand of HIS people, gradually human nature festered and HIS grace was withdrawn.
What we must do is forget about argueing about who is right(because that becomes another devils deception)as is well known by now the Lighthouse will never worship on sunday, at our prayer meeting last night we were unanimous in deciding the path ahead of us and the eternal message we as Seventh Day Adventists have to proclaim here in Samoa before it is too late.
God will harden hearts and HE will open hearts, people on both sides of this debate have to get down on their knees and open themselves up to being used for eternity.
Lance Cutts Writes:
Lance, the decisions a person makes is between that individual and God. Who am I to judge. All I have done is voiced things as I see them. If these individuals happened to turn up to my church, I would give them as warm a welcome as I could with no reservations.
What saddens me is that from what I can see from the comments, these individuals are separating themselves from the main body of Christ. What can I do about this: I can pray both for them and for me so that we can both gain more understanding; I can voice things as I see them, which I have done; I can pray for the church leaders so that they might receive wisdom in dealing with these matters. Then I walk in faith knowing that these things will be dealt with as God sees fit.
On a light note, the following link describes how Jews are handling the Samoan dateline issue. ‘Dont travel to the Pacific region on weekends’ it says.
http://www.ijn.com/features/2897-samoan-dateline-hopping-poses-question-for-jews-when-is-shabbat
Thank you, Owen. That is exactly what needs to happen. God is in control and HE will continue to use this issue to refine HIS people and to weed out those for whom the Sabbath had just become a weekly habit.
There is anger and festering which needs to be handed to Yahweh, but there is also revival and a new found urgency to stand for God and for truth. We all knew this would happen in the end times; compromise always comes with a good reason attached.
I also refuse to judge the people I love, who have made the opposite decision from what I (and my family and like-minded friends) have made, because I don’t put myself above God’s big picture and how HE is developing HIS people in these end times. I am very certain on the Sabbath that HE has called me to uphold, even though it felt at first that we were standing alone. I am also blessed that God has surrounded us with others alive in HIS Spirit who continue to be strong in their decision as well.
It is also a blessing to be back in New Zealand for Sabbath tomorrow, and to worship with our beloved Nth Harbour family whom we have missed, especially of late, because standing against the majority is never easy.
Happy Sabbath. God is most definitely in control, and I pray a special blessing to our little group back in Samoa and to Samatau who are facing so much ungodly behaviour over the last couple of weeks.
Dear Owen,
You wrote:
This is exactly how we feel about the approximately 1/10 of 1% of believers in the South Pacific who have chosen to worship on a different day than the world-wide body of Seventh-day Adventist believers. While the world-wide body worships on the seventh-day Sabbath of March 10 this week, the majority of believers in Samoa, Tokelau, Tonga and other islands will treat this day as any other day of the week — cleaning house, shopping, whatever, and they will gather to worship on March 11, which is Sunday locally and world-wide. It is very sad indeed.
The believers on Samoa and Tonga who gather to worship on the local seventh-day (Saturday) are the ones who are in harmony with the vast majority of Seventh-day Adventist believers. They are part of the 99%+ who worship on the seventh day of the week, which is the day before Sunday throughout the world.
On the other hand, you are correct if you believe the “main body of Christ” to be composed of Sunday-keeping believers around the world. The seventh-day (Saturday) keeping believers are separating themselves from this majority — as are the rest of Seventh-day Adventists around the world. But there’s a broader view yet — and that is heaven’s perspective. I believe that those who worship the Creator God in spirit and in truth on the day He personally blessed and sanctified for fellowship with Him — that we might remember Him as Creator, Sanctifier and Redeemer — are in harmony with worshipers of God throughout the universe.
Please understand that I am not condemning those who worship on Sunday, since God has many true-hearted believers among them — whether they are Congregational Christians, Catholics, Anglicans, Baptists or Adventists. But He has commissioned His remnant church to issue the invitation to “Come out of her, My people!” (Rev. 18:4) That work will now have to be done by a very tiny minority in Samoa.
But take courage, dear Samoan believers who worship on the world-wide seventh-day Sabbath: A tiny number with God is always in the majority!
Owen wrote:
“When is the correct Sabbath? The answer is 7 days after the last one and repeating the cycle back to time began.”
As Lance has explained, that would make Saturday the Sabbath in Samoa now and place them in a position of having been worshiping on the wrong day for the past century.
The rest of the world has been doing exactly that (keeping the seven day sequence since time began) and Saturday is still the Sabbath everywhere else. Samoa’s reckoning of time has simply moved from the end of the earth’s daily 48 hour rotation to the beginning, exactly as you do when you fly across the dateline. It requires a simple “skipping of a day” once only, (until the dateline is moved again). The frenzy to keep a mystical 7-day original sequence so rigidly has made fools of our Pacific church members in the eyes of the world. All because they think the government changed the calendar and renamed the days. The Samoan government says it is a dateline realignment, so we Adventists are actually accusing the government of lying.
119 years ago Samoa transferred to the east side of the international date line in an effort to aid trade with the US and Europe. Was it a wrong move then?
Having just read RG White’s blog post, I cannot concur with him more. His thoughts resonate with mine.
I will summarise my thoughts thus:
Using the unbroken time legacy that we have of the Jews observing the Sabbath, indeed the CENTRE of timing as far as which day in the week is which revolves around this centrality of the Middle East.
With the first point in mind, ANY inhabited area on this planet that sits at the periphery of the border between sunset and sunrise cannot be arbitrary. As long as there is a consensual understanding among a people in such regions that a particular point in time is either the day before or after the one that we all use as a point of reference (i.e. the Middle East), then let the Sabbath fall on the SEVENTH day of that given weekly cycle. As much as the Sabbath arrives on my African shores way before it does arrive on YOUR shores, yet, technically, I will have commenced observing the Sabbath while you are still winding down your Sabbath preparations on your Friday, we would be foolhardy to be arbitrary on the international date line ramifications for determining what day it is in inhabited areas lying along the date line.
Lastly, I have considered the SAME question in the polar regions. While sparsely populated, the Sabbath truth must reach even those people who live beyond the Arctic and Antarctic circles. Twice, annually, they have 24-hours of sun for four months followed by another four months of 24-hour darkness. How would a Sabbath-keeper in those regions keep the Sabbath “from sunset to sunset”?
Back in March 2010, I compiled a Facebook note to share these insights with my Facebook friends, way before I knew that the Samoan saga would unfold. You might find it interesting reading. Here’s the DIRECT link to that note: https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=406014267929
On a parting note, I would quickly add this observation: if the local Catholic and other Sunday-keeping churches have begun worshiping on the “new” Sunday (the former Sabbath in Samoa), then the MORE reason why the Samoan Seventh-day Adventists should worship on the “new” Saturday (the former Friday). At the end of the day, at ANY given time, other sabbatarians within the same time zone are also keeping the Sabbath. In a sense, this is where the PRINCIPLE of Sabbath-keeping overrides the mere TRADITION. In the same manner in which the Jews used to add burdens to Sabbath-keeping in their time, our understanding of how the papacy corrupted the Sabbath truth cannot be a stumbling block to current technicalities surrounding this shift in times in Samoa. This is TOTALLY unlike shifting the sanctity of the seventh-day Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.
Christianity in the Samoan group dates from August 1830 when John Williams and Charles Barff of the London Missionary Society, sailed from Tahiti, and landed at Sapapalii on Savaii. They found the inhabitants friendly, and thus were able to set up two missions.
Williams then left the group, but about two years later he revisited it from the Manu’a end, some two hundred miles from Savaii, and was greatly, if agreeably, astonished to find the natives claiming Christianity as their religion and clamoring for a teacher.
By 1918 the London Missionary Society, along with two other missions — the Wesleyan Mission (the Methodist Missionary Society of Australasia) and the Roman Catholic Mission had “converted” a majority of the natives to Christianity.
From the year 1830 – 1892 many Christian church “buildings” or shelters sprang up all over the islands and the worshippers all worshipped on Sunday according to the eastern hemisphere, that was the same time as with Australia and Asia.
The Islands were experiencing considerable political unrest. England, Germany and America each were contending over the Islands. This rivalry was so intense that war was imminent. At one point the battle ships were assembled to do battle but the war was halted by a hurricane that sent their warships onto the rocks!
ADVENTIST HISTORY:
Adventist missionaries E.H.Gates and Ida Gates landed on the Samoa Islands in 1891. They were not permanent missionaries being there only a few months
.
He wrote his experience in the Review and Herald
June 23,1891 p.11 tells of his trip and arrival in Samoa.
On April 27, 1891 they were in Pango Pango, then sailed to Apia, where they landed May 5 and spent most of their time witnessing and ministering to medical needs.
In Review and Herald Sept. 22, 1891 Gates continues to tell of his experience in Samoa.
He gives a brief history of Christianity in Samoa and other interesting bits of information, closing his article with the oft quoted sentence:
“All on the island are observers of the true Sabbath, thinking it is Sunday. This however
does not prevent them from doing all manner wickedness…”
Why would Gates and his wife assume the Samoans didn’t know Sunday was not really Sunday? Why would a VISITOR from America (which is what Gates was in Samoa) assume to know more about what day it was than the people who lived there for generations? Why would the missionaries in the London Mission, and the Roman Catholic missions supposedly not know what day it was?
Of course the people of Samoa KNEW what day Sunday was, it was Sunday according to eastern hemisphere.
The Samoans had been keeping Sunday according to the eastern hemisphere for many decades, but now a change was being promoted. Remember this was 1891, just months before King Malietoa Laupepa, persuaded by the Americans, officially accepted a dateline that would place Somoa on the American side. The change had not yet taken place when Gates was in Somoa, but was probably much discussed by American diplomats in Apia. It was a major play for American interest in the Islands. This can be seen by them choosing July 4th for the transition. Choosing to have two July 4th days in one week, celebrating America’s big holiday!
So in 1892 the dateline was changed, taking Samoa out of the eastern hemisphere, mainly due to American Influence.
The battle over the Island found resolution in the Tripartite Convention of 1900 which partitioned Samoa into two parts – American Samoa and German Samoa (or western Samoa) while Britain received two of the Solomon Islands.
American Samoa received independent government in 1967 though it continued to be American territory. German control of western Samoa ended in WWI, 1919. New Zealand occupied the Islands from 1919 to 1962 when Western Samoa gained its independence.
Now in 2011 Western Samoa simply returned to its original position relative to the date line.
Sources:
Review and Herald Sept. 22, 1891 p.10
Review and Herald June 23,1891 p.11
The History of Samoa by R.M. Watson
Owen wrote:
“What saddens me is that from what I can see from the comments, these individuals are separating themselves from the main body of Christ.”
This has been said about 7th-day (Saturday) Sabbath keepers many times in the past, but perhaps not from within the SDA denomination. Those who are observing Sunday as Sabbath (as sincere as they may be) would seem to be the ones who are out of harmony with the main body of Seventh-day Adventists.
Let no one even think of suggesting any action against our Samoan Sabbath Keepers who keep Sabbath on the same day as the Seventh-day Adventist Church world-wide. I believe that, in the South Pacific region, they are a Mordecai at the gate.