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Monday: A Fallen World — 10 Comments

  1. "One thing is certain: the world in which we now live is vastly different from the one that came forth from the Lord at the end of the Creation week."

    It is easy to overlook this statement, and nearly impossible to overemphasize it. Evolution depends upon the world we live in being the very same as the one that existed at the end of creation week.

    Time and again in discussions with those who claim to believe in both the Bible and evolution, I have suggested changes which might have occurred at the fall, and which could account for the appearance of great age. Tellingly, instead of saying, "No, that wouldn't work," they say, "That's a radical solution." But of course it is. If there's one thing that is clear in the Genesis account of the fall, it's that sin caused radical change.

    In my own study of the Genesis Creation Narrative, I discovered a multitude of details that specifically challenge the evolutionary model. One of the fascinating ones for me was a unique feature of day six. I discuss that here.

    http://youtu.be/7om61lEjeuE

    The flood is a fascinating event as well. It not only wipes out most life, it is in effect, a reversal of the creation process.

    I mention that here : http://youtu.be/g5OBw3ZNw9M

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    • Hello Ed
      Folks often talk about the circle of life as an orderly process for population control and homeostasis. In 'Grounds for Belief' you point out that the animals were given a specific diet. I suppose that this diet did not include them killing each other as prey. Would you consider that after sin, there was the establishment of a new order by God?

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      • Louisdon,

        The establishment of the new order, or rather a modification of the original order, is explicit it Gen 3.

        Cursed is the ground because of you;
        through painful toil you will eat food
         It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
        and you will eat the plants of the field.
        By the sweat of your brow  you will eat your food
        until you return to the ground,

        (Many readers will recognize the form of this passage as a chiasm.)

        Man's relationship to the Earth was changed. Because man had been given dominion, but had ceded that dominion to the serpent, there would be conflict between man and the serpent. But this also signals a general conflict with animals, and the entire created order.

        As C. S. Lewis observed, "Man rebelled against God, and the Earth rebelled against man."

        Exactly when or how the animal diets changed is unclear. But remember, in all of this, that humanity, as those who had dominion, lead the way. Cain murders Abel, and eventually, "God saw that the Earth was filled with violence." This violence is made explicit by Lamech at the end of Ch. 4; but the Genesis account strongly implies that it is inevitable that violence by mankind spilled over into the animal kingdom.

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  2. Sin is exceedingly dangerous, the act of man made the entire animal and plant kingdom to suffer and the suffering continues to date. But we know that deliverance is on the way. Jesus Christ will soon come to take us home! Can somebody tell what will happen to the animals when Jesus returns. During Noah's time, representatives of the clean and unclean were admitted into the ark. What about this time round??

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  3. The results of sin were disastrous brethren...
    Whenever people sinned the consequences were very unbearable and truly the wages of sin is death. The Israelites passed through a wilderness which was described as terrible. In Deuteronomy8:15, we read, Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought.....
    When they chose to sin and complain in Numbers21:6, we read that God sent fiery serpents...and much people of Israel died.
    If God withdraws his love, we will all die because truly this world is fallen and it is a just a ball of fire.....

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  4. This was a very good and powerful lesson. as I was doing the lesson with my wife we noticed that the author said that"God graciously promised not to curse the earth again, but the soil we have inherited is a far cry from the rich, productive soil God originally created." The thing that puzzled us is that if that's the case does that mean he wont' destroy this earth? My thought on this is that God promised not to curse this earth and punish it by flood again but fire surely will consume this earth. Did I miss something or am I on the right track?

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  5. The world has certainly been cursed and it is no longer what it was. One of the great challenges that we have, is separating the beauty of nature as God intended from what is today called, “the natural order.” People see that eagles have sharp talons and curved beaks, and accept that they were designed to subdue and tear their prey. I doubt that this is what God intended, but sometimes the true use of such facilities is lost to our knowledge. On the other side we also have giant panda bears with huge fangs, whose diet is vegetarian. We know that the vicious looking dental ware is for tearing branches and stripping leaves because this is what we see them doing. It seems to me that many of God's creatures still adhere to God's ways, despite the curses of a fallen world.

    I had a great laugh the other day when I came across a news article suggesting that an otherwise mean looking massive dinosaur might actually have had feathers! Alternatively, imagine a furry tyrannosaurus rex. It would looking more like a supersized kangaroo. What I am saying is that we sometimes interpret the world from the perspective of its fallen state, when the reality may be far removed from our understanding.

    Ultimately we have the comforting words of Isaiah which gives us an image of what God intended for this world, and what will be in the world made new (Isaiah 65:25).

    Coming back to the curses on the ground. I believe that the curse upon Cain was specific to him. Cain brought fruits from the ground as an offering to God (Genesis 4:3). Producing fruits from the ground requires a settled farmers life. One has to be settled to sow and reap crops. Cain was told that the ground would no longer produce crops for him and that he would become a wanderer (Genesis 4:12), as is necessary for those who cannot raise crops and need to forage for food. I put it forward that this cannot be a general curse, as we have many societies today based on settled farming. If it was a general curse for everybody, then we would all be nomads.

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  6. The world has certainly been cursed and it is no longer what it was. One of the great challenges that we have, is separating the beauty of nature as God intended from what is today called, “the natural order.” People see that eagles have sharp talons and curved beaks, and accept that they were designed to subdue and tear their prey. I doubt that this is what God intended, but sometimes the true use of such facilities is lost to our knowledge. On the other side we also have giant panda bears with huge fangs, whose diet is vegetarian. We know that the vicious looking dental ware is for tearing branches and stripping leaves because this is what we see them doing. It seems to me that many of God's creatures still adhere to God's ways, despite the curses of a fallen world.

    I had a great laugh the other day when I came across a news article suggesting that an otherwise mean looking massive dinosaur might actually have had feathers! Alternatively, imagine a furry tyrannosaurus rex. It would looking more like a super-sized kangaroo. What I am saying is that we sometimes interpret the world from the perspective of its fallen state, when the reality may be far removed from our understanding.

    Ultimately we have the comforting words of Isaiah which gives us an image of what God intended for this world, and what will be in the world made new (Isaiah 65:25).

    Coming back to the curses on the ground. I believe that the curse upon Cain was specific to him. Cain brought fruits from the ground as an offering to God (Genesis 4:3). Producing fruits from the ground requires a settled farmers life. One has to be settled to sow and reap crops. Cain was told that the ground would no longer produce crops for him and that he would become a wanderer (Genesis 4:12), as is necessary for those who cannot raise crops and need to forage for food. I put it forward that this cannot be a general curse, as we have many societies today based on settled farming. If it was a general curse for everybody, then we would all be nomads.

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