Monday: While Yet Sinners
Read Romans 5:6-8. What does this passage tell us about the character of God, and why is it so full of hope for us?
When Adam and Eve shamefully and inexcusably transgressed the divine requirement, God took the first steps toward reconciliation.
Image © Lifeway Collection Goodsalt.com
Ever since, God has taken the initiative in providing a way of salvation and in inviting men and women to accept it. “When the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son” (Gal. 4:4).
Romans 5:9 says that we can be saved from God’s wrath through Jesus. How do we understand what that means?
On the eve of their departure from Egypt, the blood on the doorposts of the Israelites in Egypt protected the firstborn from the wrath that befell Egypt’s firstborn. In the same way, the blood of Jesus Christ guarantees that one who has been justified and retains that status will be protected when God’s wrath finally destroys sin at the end of the age.
Some people struggle with the idea of a loving God having wrath. But it’s precisely because of His love that this wrath exists. How could God, who loves the world, not have wrath against sin? Were He indifferent to us, He would not care about what happens here. Look around at the world and see what sin has done to His creation. How could God not be wrathful against such evil and devastation?
What other reasons are we given to rejoice? Rom. 5:10-11.
Some commentators have seen in Romans 5:10 a reference to the life that Christ lived on this earth, during which He wrought a perfect character that He now offers to credit to us. Although this is certainly what Christ’s perfect life accomplished, Paul seems to be emphasizing the fact that whereas Christ died, He rose again and is alive forevermore (see Heb. 7:25). Because He lives we are saved. If He had remained in the tomb, our hopes would have perished with Him. Romans 5:11 continues with the reasons that we have to rejoice in the Lord, and that’s because of what Jesus has accomplished for us.
(48)
It's clear from these verses and similar thoughts expressed in 2 Corinthians 5:19 "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting men's sins against them" That the reconciliation Paul describes involves a change in us, not in God. God is the One doing the reconciling, not the One who needs to be reconciled.
Ro 5:9 in the Greek just says "we shall be saved from wrath through Him" The word "God" was added by the translators to reflect their understanding of what is expressed here, but does not appear in the original writings. There is a wrath of God that we need to fear and Paul has already made clear what that is in Romans 1 which sadly was skipped by the lesson writers. God's wrath as expressed by Paul is for God to "give them over" to the sins which they have chosen. Just so this point is not overlooked, Paul repeats it 3 times in Romans 1:24, 26, 28. The wrath referred to in Romans 5:9 i believe is OUR wrath against God. The context in Romans 5 is the love of God, what He is doing to save and reconcile us to Himself, and Paul is saying we are also being saved from becoming "haters of God" Romans 1:30. which is the result of living a life apart from Him. Romans 1:18-32 outlines the history of those who reject God's efforts to reconcile them to Himself and in the end they die, the natural consequence of separating themselves from Him in whom we "live and move and have our being" Acts 17:28.
steve
Thanks much for this, Steve. Your comment caused me to look up the Ro 5:9, and in this case, the KJV has the better translation:
Yet, checking out all the texts that use this noun, I cannot escape the sense that this noun [Gk orgē] stands for God's violent abhorrence of evil and the resulting consequences.
The NLT offers this translation:
Through Christ believers are separated from the evil God abhors, and thus they do not suffer the consequences of evil but inherit the eternal life bought with the blood of Christ.
So is there a difference between the "wrath," in Romans 5:9 and the wrath in Revelation 14:10 ?
Pete, the word used in Rev 14:10 is different, but it seems to me that the meaning is very similar.
God abhors all sin that causes His created beings to suffer and self-destruct. When humans hang on to sin, rejecting Christ's offer of salvation, they will finally be destroyed along with sin. After pouring out His love on this planet, there is nothing more a loving God can do to safe-guard his creation from the evil consequences of sin, other than to destroy sin and sinners once and for all.
[By the way, Pete, thank you for not using capitals for emphasis in this comment, as requested in our Comment Guide Lines. It is likely that your comments will not be published when you keep your CAPS lock key on.]
Hi Inge:
I like your last sentence a lot and would agree completely. I am not one of those who does not believe that God will judge the world and put an end to sin and sinners, but in the context of these verses, I believe it's God's supernatural power that keeps us on track as we move from tribulations to a life of hope. It would be very easy to become angry with God and to lose hope when faced with trials. Paul is explaining here that God is working to prevent that from happening. The verse makes sense either way, but in the context of chapter 5, it makes more sense to me that not only does the Greek not say that it is "God's" wrath, but that it really isn't "God's" wrath that is referred to. There's a whole 'nuther discussion that we could go into about what exactly is "wrath" which in Greek is the word "orge" and would more properly be translated "desire", but I'm tired and need to sleep. Thanks again for your kind comments. steve
Well said Steve. We are all justified at the cross as Paul clearly states in Romans. Paul is not writing just to baptized Christian‘s that were a members of the congregation in Rome, he was writing to all of us. We need only to except GOD’s justification and then we will be internally motivated to do what is right with GOD… Royce
Royce;
It's been a long time and good to hear from you. I hope you're still teaching that SS class and that all is well. steve
However in 2 Peter 3:9
The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.
How is there such a tepid reaction by the Lesson Study to Rom 5:8-10: “But God demonstrates His own Love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. *Much more then*, having now been justified by His blood, *we shall be saved* from the wrath through Him. For if while we were sinners we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, *much more*, having been reconciled, *we shall be saved* in His Life .”
Lesson Study: “Romans 5:9 says that we *can* be saved from God’s wrath through Jesus. How do we understand what that means?” That’s a most appropriate question if Scripture had actually said “can”.
I don't believe the lesson is lukewarm. The word can, is implying, if you come to God through Christ you are saved. I am sure you don't believe you are saved if you don't come to Him. So many hang onto the promise Jesus saves in Hebrews 7:25 and ignore the second 1/3 of the text, "those who come to God through Him." So when you think about it the word can does not water down the message. Say you don't come to God through Him then you can't enjoy the promise of the 1st 1/3th of the verse. I come to God through Christ then I can enjoy the 1st 1/3 of Hebrews 7:25. The word can in this context implies choice.
If God was able to have His son die for us while we were still sinners, what more can He do for us when we are His?
Keep us!
Jesus died for us while we were still "sinners," and therefore NOT LIKE HIM AT ALL. As soon as we accept this fact for our lives GOD JUSTIFIES US. But he wants also SANCTIFY US and to go from HIS JUSTIFYING US and to then BECOME LIKE HIM IN CHARACTER and that becomes THE WORK OF A LIFETIME for us.
Please, can someone summarize the whole of this week lesson. thanks
There is no such thing as a free lunch "Promise". If you would like an answer to that question, here is what I suggest. Provide us with a summary of your own first. It does not need to be "correct" and may have holes of misunderstanding in it, but I am sure our readers will respond.
When I was teaching students and they came to me with a problem I would always ask them to describe the problem to me in their own words. Many times, during the explanation, they would suddenly smile and tell me that they had worked out how to solve the problem.
Sabbath School Study is a discussion, If you want answers you need to explain your problem.
Maurice I am glad you are not intimidating, for if you were you would have many students not coming to you with question. I am sure many came to you just to get that warm feeling when you maid the light bulb light up in there cognition.
Hi Promise;
I'm anticipating studying this material for another 100 million years or so. The trite answer is "Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so". I'll try to write more about this lesson on a daily basis as I have the time to study more, but it's so dense that I won't be able to cover it all in my lifetime. I did reply to Inge and have given some of my thoughts there. I'm trying. steve
"While we yet sinners" "God demonstrated his own love for us", "Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Verse 9 says "since we have been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from God's wrath..." Verse 10 says "For if, when we enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,much more, being reconciled we shall be saved by his life". Verse 11"but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."
More often we hear people saying they have been saved. Quite clearly Paul reiterates that by being justified(being made right with God) "we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ". Does this imply we have been saved? There is a possibility that we can fall away and lose salvation (Hebrews 6:6). There is no once justified always justified. Right up to verse 11 he emphasizes the point that we receive " reconciliation / atonement" rather than we receive salvation. It seems the statement "we shall be saved" suggests it's not yet a done deal even after justification. It serms justification by faith is never to be solely about the removing of our past. Yes, He washed our sins away and we stand before God free from guilt. But what about the power to live the life that goes on after our past has been removed? The lesson says justification brings about awareness of wonderful blessings: God's acts of reconciling the fallen world to himself through Christ.
Now the jargon : Faith is not a meritorious act which in itself brings about justification. Christ's death does (Romans 5:9). It's suffice to say justification does not bring us salvation either. "In Christ, the justified believer beholds his only hope and deliverer... "-The Signs of the Times, November 3,1890 3SM 192.1 These are all ways of saying that it is the saving work of Jesus that brings about the salvation of sinners. That's why they are all called gifts of grace.
Salvation by the way of the cross is so that God would be "just and the one who justifies the man who has faith in Jesus" ( Rom 3:26 ).
Beautiful. I hadn't really thought of the connection between justification and salvation as you're explaining it. I did notice that in Genesis the righteousness that God credits to Abraham has nothing to do with sin, but is all about him believing that God would actually do as He had promised. The more I study, the more I realize how ignorant I am and wonder what else God might have for me here that I haven't yet seen. I've read these verses a hundred times and there's always something new. God bless. steve
I feel like a dog chasing it's tale. I've never had the first love experience having been raised in the church. Stayed in due to fear. These lessons have been such a blessing but I still worry because I still fear. I fear God more than love him I am ashamed to admit. I don't love others the way I should. I am struggling with an addiction I pray about daily. No matter how much I pray I still have not overcome doubts and fears, addictions and I know I'm the problem but I feel like I'll never be what I need to be or what Christ wants me to be. Every comment shows how much all of you love God and are assured of salvation but I'm feeling hopelessly sinful.
Sally, there is POWER in "God's Word." 1 John 5:14, 15 says it very clear that OUR CONFIDENCE is to be placed upon what GOD is ready to do and can do for us. that makes EVERY COMMAND OF HIS "A PROMISE." And there it also says that all we have to do is to ASK HIM to fulfill what HE PROMISES to do and to therefore do it for us and in us. 2 Timothy 1:7 says that GOD has given us POWER, LOVE, and A SOUND MIND. There is therefore absolutely no reason TO FEAR, or TO DOUBT.
Christ loves it when you come to Him just as you are, sinful, helpless, and dependent. Keep coming to Him on a daily basis, and the Holy Spirit will work out your problems. He has promised.
Hi Sally;
"I'm feeling hopelessly sinful" Good for you.The problem Eve had was two fold.One she didn't know and love and trust God as she should. This is the part that we always seem to talk about, but the second part of her problem was that she trusted herself. She wouldn't have sinned had she not come to the conclusion that she could trust herself to make her own decisions and didn't need God to guide her. It sounds like you have come to the point you realize your need of God and His guidance for your life. The reality is that we are all hopelessly sinful, we just don't all recognize or acknowledge the fact.
Coming to love and trust God has to be a relationship experience and will take time. The difference in my own life came when I decided to get up a little earlier each morning and read my Bible and pray, then go out and try to find someone else to tell what I had learned. I think the last is very important and tends to be neglected. I know as I talk with others I get new insights that seem to me to have been inspired. The Holy Spirit will talk to you as you pass on to others and will warm your heart as well. Hope this helps. steve
Sally, Steve Roesler got it right: When you feel your utter helplessness, you are where God can save you. (Those who think they're pretty good are impossible for God to save because they do not feel their need. That was the problem with the Pharisees in Christ's time, and eventually they crucified Christ.)
So you're ahead of where I was in the first 10 years or so after my baptism. Then I was in a place where it seemed God wasn't hearing my prayers. (I wanted Him to change lots of things and people too.) Finally I gave up and said, "Lord, please show me how I need to change." And He did answer that prayer. I saw that all the "good" I had ever done was marred with selfishness. Then all I could do was to give up on myself and throw myself at His feet in total surrender and cry for mercy, "Lord, save me!" That's when I first experienced the sweet peace and joy Jesus said He came to give us.
Don't wait to make yourself better. Don't wait to overcome your addictions. Come to Jesus just as you are. It's not what you know that makes you a Christian. It's not what you do that makes you a Christian. It's Who you know. After surrendering yourself to Him, your "work" will be to spend time with Jesus every day to get to know Him better and discover His will for your life. Yes, you may still struggle with some bad habits, but Jesus doesn't give up on you because you can't walk on your own. Just surrender yourself anew to Him and ask Him for His power to overcome. Just keep choosing Jesus, and the things of this world will fade into the background. Read Steve's comment again for some clues.
Then I suggest you get your own copy of Steps to Christ to read and mark up. You can buy a paper copy (I recommend the leather-bound version because it's beautiful, sturdy and will last you through many readings. I have it.), or you can read it online at EGWwritings.org, or you can get the EGW Writings 2 app on your phone (search for it), or you can even get a Kindle version. The paper book, the app and the Kindle version allow you to mark up the book. Read it and apply it. Then read it and apply it again and again. You may not have been ready for it before, but I think you're ready for it now. (I confess I couldn't appreciate it for many years, but it has become very precious to me.)
May God bless you as you grow in Him.
Sally, if God could take a flighty young girl and lead her through life the way He has done with me, believe me, He truly is the "Hound of Heaven" .... relentlessly pursuing souls to save them. Hang in, keep studying and never doubt that God loves you.
I've found these lines from Steps to Christ very helpful in clarifying the process of salvation and what exactly occurs that saves me. Hopefully you all will find them helpful as well. Honestly the whole book is a great, easy read and I highly recommend it.
"It was to redeem us that Jesus lived and suffered and died. He became “a Man of Sorrows,” that we might be made partakers of everlasting joy. God permitted His beloved Son, full of grace and truth, to come from a world of indescribable glory, to a world marred and blighted with sin, darkened with the shadow of death and the curse. He permitted Him to leave the bosom of His love, the adoration of the angels, to suffer shame, insult, humiliation, hatred, and death. “The chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5. Behold Him in the wilderness, in Gethsemane, upon the cross! The spotless Son of God took upon Himself the burden of sin. He who had been one with God, felt in His soul the awful separation that sin makes between God and man. This wrung from His lips the anguished cry, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” Matthew 27:46. It was the burden of sin, the sense of its terrible enormity, of its separation of the soul from God—it was this that broke the heart of the Son of God. {SC 13.1}
But this great sacrifice was not made in order to create in the Father’s heart a love for man, not to make Him willing to save. No, no! “God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son.” John 3:16. The Father loves us, not because of the great propitiation, but He provided the propitiation because He loves us. Christ was the medium through which He could pour out His infinite love upon a fallen world. “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.” 2 Corinthians 5:19. God suffered with His Son. In the agony of Gethsemane, the death of Calvary, the heart of Infinite Love paid the price of our redemption. {SC 13.2}
Jesus said, “Therefore doth My Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.” John 10:17. That is, “My Father has so loved you that He even loves Me more for giving My life to redeem you. In becoming your Substitute and Surety, by surrendering My life, by taking your liabilities, your transgressions, I am endeared to My Father; for by My sacrifice, God can be just, and yet the Justifier of him who believes in Jesus.” {SC 14.1}"
I believe there is a legal issue to be resolved, but it could not be more clear that it does not involve a change in the desire (orge?) of God to spend eternity with His children. That desire has been there since before the creation. He will give us over to the consequences of the sins we cling to if we insist, but it will break His heart to do so. steve
Promise, I am going to make this simple for you. Thanks to Dwight Nelson a pastor from Pioneer Memorial, he said to every day, pray and ask God for his covering of love, and his power. We all sin, and fall short, I know I do, but, we asdk God to shower us with his love and power every day. Reach for him.
Much attention has been focused on Rom 5:9.(particularly wrath).yet a crucial verse in understanding justification (and salvation)involves the next verse as well.
Justification addresses the human problem as stated in Rom 8:7.(rebellion & enmity toward God) Justification is usually taught as imputing a substitutionary, vicarious righteousness of Jesus to the believer's account. This is not an explicit conclusion from scripture. Even the text about Abraham indicates that his faith in God was accounted so.
Justification is primarily pardon & trust/relationship reconciliation.
Also,notice the "much more" usage in each verse of Rom 5:9 &10.
It would be very helpful if much more discussion was on what "saved by His life" meant..especially since so many think we are saved only by the blood of Jesus. For those of the Berean mindset, look up the word "save" & "saved in the new testament. One example is TIT 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he SAVED us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"
Salvation goes further than pardon & reconciliation. It involves character restoration, sin eradication.