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Sunday: A “Toast to Life?” — 49 Comments

    • I'm not sure the bible supports that alcohol is a sin. I think the bible provides evidence that drinking can have devastating consequences. The main issue is taking things in moderation. One or two drinks may not alter someone's judgement, but the problem with society is that people struggle with limitations in general, they like to indulge. Even Ellen G. White doesn't entirely reject alcohol for the fact that it is evil, but she encourages people to abstain for the fact that it can lead into more problems probably because people cannot monitor the amount to drink. I am not sending this message to stir up any conflict, but I just feel that Adventists sometimes take extremes without fully analyzing both sides.

      Amen!(21)
    • yes consuming alcohol is a sin, Isiah 5:11 and 22 stipulates easily and wisely that its a sin. Habakkuk also told us not to even buy for our Neighbour so it is a sin to consume alcohol. our body is the temple of the living God and it need to be taken care of. alcohol also destroys liver and lungs which is not good for the body of Christ.

      Amen!(18)
      • No, the bible says that drunkenness is a sin. If alcohol causes you to sin, then yes you should leave it alone. However, that's with anything. I'm not promoting the use of alcohol use, but at the same time there are references in the bible where people of God did drink alcohol. For instance, the classic example of Jesus turning water into wine. Most Adventists claim that the wine at that time was non-fermented. Where in the bible does it support that? Why would the same word be used multiple times in the bible have a different meaning in that story? Please help me to understand. Like I stated before, I'm not advocating the frequent use of alcohol.

        Amen!(11)
        • Sorry I do not have your name. However, if you do value EGW writings here is something from Signs of the Times April 16, 1896.

          "At the time of the birth of John the people generally were addicted to the use of unfermented wine. At the wedding feast in Cana, Christ turned the water into wine. By a miracle he transformed the water into the pure juice of the grape. Wine is good only when it is not fermented."

          And from Christ Triumphant page 230

          "Jesus Christ is the originator of all missionary work done in our world. He worked miracles to heal the sick, but He never worked a miracle in His own behalf. His first noted miracle was performed at a marriage feast in Cana, when He turned water into wine....

          By this miracle Christ wished to teach that unfermented wine is far preferable to fermented wine. Christ never created fermented wine. The wine made on this occasion was exactly like the wine that comes fresh from the cluster. Christ knew the influence of fermented wine, and by giving them pure, unfermented wine, He showed them the only safe way in which to use grape juice."

          Amen!(9)
          • I value EGW writings that directly support passages of the bible. I am not a bible scholar by any means, but I think people should directly give support from the bible and not necessarily what EGW teaches. This is one of the reasons why evangelizing can be difficult. I am not saying that her writings are not true, but there needs to be more support other than EGW. How do you convince others who are not Adventist that your statement is true without providing evidence from the bible first? There has to be more reasons to not drink other than because EGW advises us not to. She does not have supreme authority over the decisions that we make, Christ does.

            If we live our lives according to the guidelines of do's and don'ts, we may miss what Christ has been trying to convey through the gospel. I may be giving too much of my opinion, but I think a valid reason not to drink is to consider how it alters our walk with God. Everyone has different convictions! The Holy Spirit will guide a person how to live their lives accordingly. If there is gray area, where we are unsure of something in particular we should take it to the Lord in prayer. As I mentioned before in previous posts, I am not condoning alcohol the use or giving excuses to live an unholy lifestyle but I'm trying to get people to see that we have to find deeper reasons for the way we live our lives. If I approach someone who is non-adventist and use EGW for the basis of my convictions, how is that leading people closer to Christ? Sometimes, I think people use literature outside of the bible because they're unsure themselves. If we cannot explain and pin point our reasons using the bible solely as our source, we are giving more room for people to doubt our belief system.

            Amen!(12)
          • Someone, whoever that might be. You make a valid point about our source of information when witnessing to those outside our church. To me there are pluses and minuses in that. First, if I was living during the time of any of the Bible prophets and recognized them as such would I refuse to include their testimony? What about those who have died and are recognized by a large body of believers? I am here thinking of contemporaries like what Peter had to say about Paul 2 Pet 3:15-16. Many often referenced one another 2 Chron 36, Ezra 1:1 and of course Dan 9:2 as examples.

            If we do what you are suggesting and stick only with the Bible how are we to understand what it says? There are several things I try to keep in mind:
            1. Context, context, context always include the context when trying to understand a passage. That context may be an adjacent sentence or paragraph. It could be the entire chapter or book and in some cases it might need a thought about the great controversy as portrayed in the entire Bible.
            2. "Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts? For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little" (Isa. 28:9-10 NKJV). In other words we draw from different parts of the Bible rather than sticking with only one person's testimony. That means . . .
            3. Preponderance of scripture is important. What does most of the Bible have to say on the subject? This is about the only good way to proceed when it comes to contradictory statements and those that are difficult to understand.
            4. And finally a lesser point, what is my experience. What is the Holy Spirit showing me through my life and the lives of others? Is it in accordance with scripture?

            So what does the Bible teach? First, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment" (Matt. 22:37-38 NKJV). That means, "whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God" (1 Cor. 10:31 NKJV). Is it glorifying God to put our mental faculties in neutral, to cloud our reasoning? It was for that reason that, "when they had come to a place called Golgotha, that is to say, Place of a Skull, they gave Him sour wine mingled with gall to drink. But when He had tasted it, He would not drink" (Matt. 27:33-34 NKJV).

            Is it glorifying God to make a fool of yourself? When I read texts such as, "Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise" (Prov. 20:1 NKJV) and:

            Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who linger long at the wine, Those who go in search of mixed wine. Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it swirls around smoothly; At the last it bites like a serpent, And stings like a viper. Your eyes will see strange things, And your heart will utter perverse things. Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea, Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying: "They have struck me, but I was not hurt; They have beaten me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink?" (Prov. 23:29-35 NKJV)

            I ask myself what are they telling me? Certainly Solomon knew what he was talking about for he went that way for a good portion of his life and ended up saying all of that was foolishness.

            Certainly they will say that it is ok to have a drink now and then, just social drinking (Hab 2:15), after all didn't Paul counsel Timothy to, "No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities" (1 Tim. 5:23 NKJV) and for deacons that they should not be, "given to much wine" (1 Tim. 3:8 NKJV) meaning a little is ok. To those I would like to suggest, "Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?" (1 Cor. 5:6 NKJV).

            Alcohol is widely known to be very addictive. I have talked to recovering alcoholics and all of them will tell you that they never thought that they would end up being addicted to the sauce. In fact many practicing alcoholics are in a state of deception and denial thinking that they are in control when it is the booze that has control of them. Are we then to be slaves of another god? "For it is written,`You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve'" (Matt. 4:10 NKJV). Like Paul I say, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, SELF-CONTROL. Against such there is no law" (Gal. 5:22-23 NKJV). For, "Harlotry, wine, and new wine enslave the heart" (Hos. 4:11 NKJV). "Hear this word, you cows of Bashan, who are on the mountain of Samaria, Who oppress the poor, Who crush the needy, Who say to your husbands, 'Bring wine, let us drink!'" (Amos 4:1 NKJV).

            Many of the prophets such as Isaiah and Jeremiah along with Solomon and others had nothing good to say about drinking fermented beverage so should we do what they didn't? Alcohol is deceptive and insidious like the serpent in the garden bidding us to come and try it out, after all, everyone else is doing it and besides it will make us like God knowing good and evil; and Eve found out what that really meant.

            Amen!(8)
          • Something to think about: There are some living with the haunting memory of a fatal accident resulting from a little mistake of indulgence. For others there may be eternal consequences.

            it is probably not a good idea to pitch one's tent towards Sodom (Genesis 13:12) and before long become a gate keeper (Genesis 19:1) and defender of the customs and practices.

            If alcohol is not resident in Sodom (the house of sin) it is certainly next door and the people of faith do well to stay away from it. Like with riches the deceitfulness of alcohol is not to be underestimated (Proverbs 20:1).

            Really the people of the world hardly need the abundance of caution found in the Bible to stay away. Science and experience have already done enough.

            Amen!(7)
        • The question was raised, "Why would the same word be used multiple times in the bible have a different meaning in that story?" The fact is that the meaning in John 2 is not different. The Greek word translated "wine" (transliterated "oinos") has a breadth of meaning not reflected in the English word "wine". "Oinos" can mean either fermented or fresh grapejuice. A case of the word being used to refer to grapejuice is evident in Matthew 11:19 (and the parallel passages in Mark 2:22 and Luke 5:37). There the unfermented juice, if placed in the old inelastic skins, would be likely to ferment and split the skins.

          In the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament), the same word is used in Isaiah 16:10, which refers to those who "tread out wine in the winepresses", which would be unfermented at the time of treading. Similarly, the single Hebrew word translated "new wine" in Isaiah 65:8, is obviously unfermented as it is still "in the cluster". Many of the Old Testament references to "new wine" are associated with blessings, while there are enough references to the curse of the intoxicating beverage to make anyone leery of even beginning to drink it. (And that's without the medical evidence we have today of its harmful effects.)

          Amen!(3)
      • Tendani, Why do you say alcohol use is a sin? the word used here is "woe" which is an interjection used to denounce (Vines 3759). Is the assumption that when a prophet speaks against an action it is automatically a sin when the listener refuses to heed "God's denunciation" as opposed to committing a (sinful) deed?

        Amen!(2)
  1. One if not many in a society would suggest 'little' as recommended alcohol consumption but whatever the reason, staying away from is good before the Lord!

    Amen!(19)
  2. I have often wondered what it is people find joyous in Drinking. After they are drunk they can't even maintain Balance. Can't walk straight and have impaired judgement. As Holy Beings we really need to avoid wine or strong drink so that we remain upright in judgement. Avoid that which is unholy and pass the right decisions.

    Amen!(36)
  3. I once was a victim of alcohol, surely, today's lesson have touched the most important things that happen when a person is drunk. Loss of balance, poor decisions/judgments, thinking and throughout talking devilish things. Beloved this situation last for days just by taking a glass of alcohol. This subject have come timely as the world is falling apart in alcoholism and only GOD can make changes. Lets pray for every one of us, lest we fall into temptations.

    Amen!(35)
  4. It is too easy for some of us to condemn those who struggle with alcohol, but we need to remember that our churches should be places where people feel welcome to come for help and healing. Proverbs offers sound advice about avoiding alcohol and modern science and social research would back that up. However when a person is in the grip of alcohol, reciting proverbs about abstaining are of little comfort.

    I wonder if we were less condemnatory and more willing to help, we might have more success in helping those within the church who are suffering from alcohol addiction.

    I have told the story before of a church attendee in my home church who struggled for years with tobacco addiction. He was accepted and encouraged, and there was great rejoicing when eventually he overcame.

    May be some commentors would like to respond with practical ways we can help those who have addictions.

    Amen!(35)
    • AMEN!! I wish I had a practical solution! I am coming to the belief that only unconditional love answers it!!

      Amen!(14)
    • I know of a couple people connected with the SDA church, people who illustrate two of the "faces" of alcoholism. One is a "visitor" who has attended for several years. He knows that alcohol keeps him from being a member and yet he claims that he sees nothing wrong with it. He seems satisfied to keep coming as a non-member. He has been loved (and has expressed feeling loved) and has been encouraged to give up drinking many times. Please pray for him and for those who are trying to win him to God's truth.

      Another is a long-standing member who has not been attending for several years. She recently has posted a few pictures on an internet social networking site, suggesting the possibility that she is drinking. Regarding that possibility, she has been contacted privately by someone who previously had a good relationship with her (and she has read the message) but has not responded to it. Please pray for her and for those who are trying to win her back to unity with God's people.

      Amen!(11)
      • Recently, I started reading a book, Love First, by Jeff Jay and Debra Jay. I'm only partly though it, but I'm learning new things about addiction and intervention. Dealing with any addiction is challenging, in part because of the nature of addiction and in part because of the ineptness of people like me when we deal with it in unhelpful ways. God can do wonderful things, but He works with imperfect vessels, and always the addict may still chose to reject even the best help. May God help us to educated ourselves and then to take action in love.
        ----------------------------
        Love First by Jay and Debra Jay is available on Amazon.com and Amazon.ca in Kindle and Paperback format.

        Amen!(8)
    • I agree, Sharon, answers aren't so easy. People with addictions need a support group that honestly cares for them but that group can't afford to give license to the addiction. The addict needs to know that what he or she is doing is not acceptable but how to do that without turning them away to me is the question.

      One thing I do know and that is that the greatest of the great didn't have success a lot of the time. Even the unlimited love of Jesus often didn't find a positive response and I think we need to realize that we can only lead the horse to the water but . . .

      Amen!(7)
  5. As many other addictions those who are addicted to alchol need our prayers and support because for most of them drink is the only escapism they have from their worries of life. Let us show them another way that helps them handle the cares of this world with a promising outlook.

    Amen!(16)
  6. Alcohol has been the way Satan separated me from Christ. I stand now upright only by Gods' love and mercy. Forgiveness comes from Jesus by blood he shed for me and I praise him and give thanks.

    Amen!(26)
  7. Alcohol has brought many damages to our countries,society, families and even to ourselves. But despite all that is happening to us because of it our kids join and drink more. I believe on our daily prayer we need to pray for companies which produce wine and alcohol to know and understand God.

    What do I do when someone ask for money to buy food knowing that he/she drinks a lot and might not buy food instead buys wine/alcohol?

    Amen!(3)
    • We were in Sydney the other day when my wife saw a person with a sign asking for money sitting on the corner of the street. She quickly went to the local fast-food shop and bought a meal and placed it on the money-box of the beggar. Buying food for such folk does not give them the option of using the money for alcohol.

      Amen!(15)
      • Where I live, the population of homeless is so great, that it is often easy for them to become part of the background and just forget that they exist. I also started giving food instead of money with the concern that I would be supporting a drug or alcohol habit.
        I've seen a person who could barely walk while begging on the subway "suddenly" walk just fine when we both got off at the same subway station. I've even seen a man, given a full meal of food, eat a bit of it, and then throw it rest of it away in a trash can and walk away.
        But just this past Sabbath, as a part of discussing Jesus' Sermon on the Mount for Communion Service, my Pastor said that being a Christian often requires us to do things that we don't want to do, things that are not easy to do. We are to give to those in need and if we have the fiscal ability, we have a responsibility to help. I was okay with that because I "do my part" by giving to charities, both inside and outside of the church.
        But what made me squirm a bit in my seat and hit me right in the heart is when he said: "We need to move away from making judgments as to whether the person is worthy or not of our help". Wow! That statement is making me see that I'm not worthy of Jesus' help, but He gives it to me---abundantly. My prayer (and please pray for me, too) is that I will reach a point where I will no longer pause and sigh inwardly when I give food or money to a person who I think will squander it, but I will give "not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." 2 Corinthians 9:7

        Amen!(8)
    • Amanda,
      That's the same concept I had regarding giving money to a "apparently" drunk or homeless person. But one day a friend of my bring me up the attention that "we" should do our part as a giver. We never know what really that person would do with the money. They might be hungry! or need for their basic needs. That was a big lesson for me coming from a person that was not a believer.

      Amen!(3)
    • I remember a woman who was asking for money for food. But when I offered to buy her a smoothy at a shop just across the street, she declined and moved on. We seldom see the whole story.

      Amen!(2)
    • If someone ask for money to buy food offer to take them to get some food, this often will expose their real intentions. If the need is really for food they will accept your offer if not the intention probably was not to buy food in the first place.

      Amen!(3)
  8. I have seen this time and time again. Alcohol impairs our judgement, encourages ungodly behaviour, thus causing us to bring reproach upon the Lord and the church. Interesting enough, there are persons who deliberately consume alcohol, and then use it as sn excuse to do foolishness, then claim they were not sober, so they cannot remember what they did. Let's keep encouraging each other to do what is right.

    Amen!(4)
  9. Guys, perhaps you all can help me with something.

    If alcohol, and the consumption of it is so horrible, why did Jesus turn the water to wine for all to consume at the wedding? (John 2:11).
    Also, Matt 26:29, Jesus says he won't drink of the fruit of the vine until the day when he drinks it new in his father's kingdom. From this it is easy to gather that there will indeed be wine in heaven.
    Its a little confusing to me since wine is seen as an unholy substance, yet, here is Jesus providing others with it and promising to consume in heaven, the holiest of places.

    Please share your thoughts

    P.S. I do not consume wine/alcohol.

    Amen!(5)
    • Through reading these posts, it seems as though those who have sincere questions, such as the ones you bring up, are not being responded to. I also have those same questions (and yes, I also don't drink).

      I think this is going to take some Bible study/research. Interestingly, when this topic came to my mind a year or so ago, I looked up books on Amazon.com and I was surprised (or maybe I shouldn't be so surprised) at the Christian authors who state that the Bible is not against alcohol consumption. I was thinking that maybe I need to get books that show the for/against sides of this issue, PRAY, and see if you could find information on how alcohol was used during ancient Biblical times. Or maybe check out audioverse.org for sermons on this topic. Hope this helps a bit. May God lead you to His marvelous truth and give you the wisdom, courage, and understanding to loving lead others to the same.

      Amen!(4)
    • Hi Elle and Marie.

      You must first understand that the Bible uses the word in question (oinos) to refer to both unfermented and fermented wine. In fact, when the King James Version translation was written in 1611, even the English language used the English word wine to refer to both the fermented and unfermented variants. There is a good reference you can find to this in http://faithsaves.net/drunk-wine-wherein-excess-filled-spirit-ephesians-518/ (a Baptist publication) which in footnote 7 discusses the use of the word.

      The Bible is emphatically against alcohol and it's consumption (resulting in drunkenness) in many places, but for the sake of brevity see the following 4 verses - Isaiah 5:11, Proverbs 23:20, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:18.

      The reference in Ephesians 5:18 in particular is a good read: "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery".

      Simply ask yourself if you think that Jesus would give you something to dull your senses and to loosen your inhibitions, leading you to debauchery? The answer you will find in your mind will tell you all you need to know to understand what type of wine Jesus provided.

      If you would like to understand a royal method of drinking the fruit of the vine, read Genesis 40:11.

      There is another rather lengthy but well written discussion of the subject, though focusing on the last supper more than the wedding feast in Cana, that I found well written at http://yaiy.org/literature/GrapeOrWine.html - well worth a read.

      To assume that Jesus is saying that "Wait till we get to heaven, we're going to have a great party and get blotto'd on what I've been brewing for the last 2,000 years" is so disharmonious to the character and nature of Jesus that it makes my skin crawl to even write it.

      However, I hope that might bring some clarity to your good questions.

      Regards,

      Ian.

      Amen!(10)
  10. You imagine that for a shot alcohol you lose completely your life ,how much is important to stay away from alcohol, your body is the Temple of God?

    Amen!(1)
  11. There are the obvious implications of drinking alcohol are so well documented in science, and unfortunately in the lives of countless millions of people that it is almost unnecessary to repeat the sad tale of the devastating impact of the impact of alcohol on humanity. However, one statistic alone should give us pause before in imbibing in alcohol, according to the CDC website, "Every day almost 30 people die in motor vehicle accidents that involve an alcohol impaired drivers.

    As important maintaining a whole and healthy body is for us, the apostle Paul shares an even more sacred, and compelling reason for staying away from the serpent of alcohol. " Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies." I Corinthians 6:19. So we have a high and noble calling to live our lives as living sacrifices for Jesus who loved us and gave Himself for us. The bottom line is that alcohol does belong in the lives of those who have given themselves to Christ.

    Amen!(3)
  12. I think the ones I have the least respect and tolerance for are those who encourage addition. I am talking about the pimps and drug dealers who will do anything to get a person hooked just so they can have a slave and source of income. Along this line I am reminded of what Habakkuk had to say about such things:

    Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness! You are filled with shame instead of glory. You also-- drink! And be exposed as uncircumcised! The cup of the LORD'S right hand will be turned against you, And utter shame will be on your glory (Hab. 2:15-16 NKJV)

    And yet even they, if they choose to stop what they are doing and turn to righteousness, can be saved and become one of God's chosen people. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn. 1:9 NKJV). "He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy" (Prov. 28:13 NKJV).

    Amen!(2)
  13. Who are the kings that judge Satan?
    Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
    Revelation 1:5-6 says that Jesus made us kings and priests to his God.
    And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
    God looks for a people who will not drink the wine of Babylon.
    Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
    The Three Angels Messages goes forward to call a people out of Babylon. Do not drink the wine of Babylon called confusion, which says it is OK to ignore God’s law.
    We are the kings who Judge Satan. It is not for kings to drink wine that means God’s people. That means it is not for me to drink wine. Drinking leads one to forget God’s Law.

    Amen!(2)
  14. The question at the end, "how do we help others, especially the young, stay clear" of alcohol and other worldly vices? Sharon says "unconditional love", to which I agree, and add that a love like that brings intercessory prayer, daily, diligently. We humans often quote "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". Even more important to pray, the word says "Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Ephesians 6:11-12 NIV. And pray with the promises of the word, reading His words increases our faith and knowledge of Him who created and loves us, who desires to lift us up away from the ugly things of this world. He says "So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." Isaiah 41:10 NIV

    Amen!(2)
  15. Today I saw this article about Alcoholics Anonymous. I am sure there is some truth about it but with all the bad publicity lately concerning medical research and the past failed theories practiced for decades that did more harm than good it causes me to wonder how much of it is actually the truth. As one lawyer said years ago the medical doctor is one generation away from the witch doctor and I think to some degree he was right. Scientists still don't know much about the body and shouldn't feel arrogant about what they do know. The consensus is not always right.

    As I read this lesson a text comes to mind, "There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death" (Prov. 14:12 NKJV).

    Amen!(1)
  16. A toast to life-

    This culture indeed is all over the world. Even from the days of our forefather Noah.
    "And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
    And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent."
    Gen 9:20-21 (KJV).
    The sad reality is that wine uncovers ones nakedness.

    "A toast to nakedness" even in the prophetic and spiritual sense.

    Numbers 25:6-8 tell of an account where a man of Israel after an idolatrous drinking party brought a midianite woman before all the congregation and took her into his tent (even before Moses and Aaron).

    "Wine makes one bold (boast) in his or her sin"

    It is the wine that will make the world to standup against Gods Law (Prov. 31:5) and commit whoredom with Babylon (Rev 17:2)

    But the end thereof is destruction.
    "Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings."
    Prov 31:3 (KJV)

    "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."
    Rev 18:4 (KJV)

    We must refuse-even to the pains of death, for even a sip of fermented WINE (Even Babylon's mixed wine)
    (Death before Dishonor)

    Amen!(3)
  17. Please whoever knows anybody with alcohol addiction can recommend these two herbs. For alcoholic and smokers. It cuts down the edge to take it.

    Calamus root: chew 2 teaspoons twice daily before meals
    Dried Hops herbs to be infused. 1 tablespoonful 2x daily before meals. They help a lot.

    I believe with prayers and self-control, God will help.
    May God bless us all. Amen!

    Amen!(2)
  18. I'm in totally agreement with the foregoing discussion regarding the prohibition of the use of alcoholic beverages. I also agree that the word wine in the Bible is generic and therefore can mean both fermented and unfermented depending on the context. However I struggle to understand texts such as Deuteronomy 14:26 which seems to positively condone the use of strong drink.
    Will someone please offer an explanation of strong drink in the context of Deuteronomy 14:26?

    Amen!(1)
    • Marcia, Deut 14:26 is indeed a difficult passage to understand not just because it involves alcoholic beverages but because it more basically involves tithe in which the Lord is telling someone to spend the tithe on his own pleasures. Such a command is against everything else said in the Bible concerning tithe.

      There is another group of texts in Deuteronomy that are similar found in Deut 17:1-9. It has to do with judging the guilt of a person and says that if the matter is too difficult to make a judgment upon then the matter is to be referred to the priests. It is as though God is saying that if it is too difficult for you to judge according to what is clearly the right path then someone else will have to do it for you as a matter of authoritative command like mommy does to a little child who knows better but chooses to do what is wrong anyway. In other words to me it sounds rather satirical, almost an outright mocking of sorts that if they can't choose between right and wrong then it will have to be forced upon them. To Moses that kind of thinking would have had a lot of meaning to him considering his waffling over the idea of him going before Pharaoh (Ex 12:12-16). In that instance is as though he was being told to act dumb while Aaron was to be the real man among them before the king.

      In the text you are inquiring about the context is important. God tells the person something quite similar to Deut 17:

      "You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. And you shall eat before the LORD your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the LORD your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the LORD your God has blessed you" (Deut. 14:22-24 NKJV)

      Then the Lord says for him to have a riotous time with the tithe because it is just too much of a burden for him to serve God by taking the tithe to where it is supposed to go. It would be the same as God telling us if the Sabbath is too much of a burden to set aside one day of the week for the Lord then do whatever you please on that day including getting drunk and frequenting the local whore house.

      Strong drink is not the issue in Deut 14:26, tithe is and God is making a fool of the selfish person who can't bring himself around to setting aside a small amount to honor the God who gives him everything.

      Amen!(3)
  19. As we evaluate the impact that wine and strong drink has on the behavior of others, keep in mind that many of our sisters and brothers in Christ have a longing desire to be delivered from his/her addiction to alcohol and other bad habits.(addiction to sweets). I ask that you join me in prayer for all of our sisters and brothers who are struggling with these life altering addictions. Prayer is powerful. We must keep in mind that God is closely watching to see how we treat those who are struggling with substance abuse. There are people in your congregations who are crying out for help, but are afraid to speak out for assistance. Prayer reaches people better than reflection/comments.

    Amen!(5)
  20. Doing things in moderation is a very dangerous statement when it comes to alcohol drinking because that's what the devil wants us to believe, he knows that if we start it will be diffucult and eventually impossible to quit. Let's not be deceived, we were bought with a special price, the Holy Spirit does not dwell in a filthy temple!!

    Amen!(3)
  21. The Bible is clear, certain people will not inherit the kingdom of God, see text below. Amongst others it mentions 'drunkards'.
    Who is a drunkard? One who drinks alcohol or too much alcohol?

    But the good news is that although we might be anyone of the unrighteous listed in these texts when we accept Jesus as our LORD and Master we are washed, sanctified, justified and will inherit the kingdom of God.

    1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
    1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Amen!(2)
  22. To someone,
    Alcohol should not be the issue for a a non member. The issue should be God's love, the need for God, repentance, Believe in Christ, accept the invite and wear the wedding garment, follow Jesus, be born again. These are the things we should be teaching and living. Let the Holy Spirit deal with the bad habits. Now if they ask you why you don't drink. As we have seen there are so many texts that support abstention. As for me I like the Spirit of Prophecy. It is God's Message to modern Christians. It points me as a Christian to the Bible. It uses Bible text very frequently. A potential member has to be introduced to the Spirit of prophecy at some time. Being so shy about using it, will come back to bite you someday. We are not shy about using The Message, why should we not be shy about edifying ourselves with the Spirit of Prophecy. What we edify ourselves with spills out to others in one form or another. You really need to read Steps to Christ, a wonderful little booklet filled with Bible text.

    Amen!(2)
  23. In reading all of the comment they all are good

    But EGW is really for us Unless people are reading her books. We know that strong drink is not for us. So lets all read the Bible and read EGW as much as we can WE have all lost our first love which should be Jesus. Lets set our Marks on him and never let go. I can not do with out him and I must read the lesser light who is EGW God has given us both

    Amen!(0)

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