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Thursday: The Opening of the Sixth Seal — 15 Comments

  1. Seventh-day Adventists, using the historicist method of interpreting prophecy have linked Rev 6:12,13 to:

    1. The Great Lisbon Earthquake (Nov 1755)
    2. The Dark Day (May 1780)
    3. The Meteor shower (November 1833)

    The Great Lisbon Earthquake rated a magnitude of between 8.5 and 9.0. Estimates of the casualities vary between 10,000 and 100,000.

    For comparison here are the ratings of some of the strongest 20th-century earthquakes.
    Valdivia, Chile, 22 May 1960 (9.5),
    Anchorage, Alaska, 28 March 1964 (9.1),
    Sumatra, Indonesia, 26 December 2004 (9.1), (This one killed about 250,000 people, many more than the Lisbon earthquake, and happened in our lifetime.
    Sendai, Japan, 11 March 2011 (9.0),
    Kamchatka, Russia, 4 November 1952 (9.0),
    Bio-bio, Chile, 27 February 2010 (8.8), Ecuador coast, 31 January 1906 (8.8),
    Sumatra, Indonesia, 28 March 2005 (8.6),
    Assam, Tibet, 15 August 1950 (8.6)

    The dark day in May 1780 has been attributed largely to unusual atmospheric conditions which held forest fire smoke in a thick blanket over the states of New England and New York in North America. In 2009 we had a dust storm over the eastern part of Australia that was so dark that planes could not land, and streetlights came on (Not that it was much help, you could not see to the end of the street.). And in the evening the moon shone with an eerie red light. It was quite an awe-inspiring event, even though modern satellite imaging gave us an explanation.

    The stars falling from heaven on November 1833 is now known to be an annual event known as the Leonid meteor shower and is a result of the earth passing through the debris path of Comet 55P/Tempel-Tuttle. The 1833 event was a meteor storm and was most noticeable over the eastern seaboard of the USA. (Interestingly some European Adventists refer to a Leonid shower that lit up over Europe in November, 1866 as the night the stars fell from the heavens.) The 1833 and 1866 events were both spectacular with tens of thousands of meteors per hour, certainly more than the dozens per hour that one gets from a current Leonid shower. I have attempted to photograph Leonid showers and have usually only managed to get one or two meteor streaks in a 30-second exposure (that is 240 per hour).

    While these are natural (explainable) events, it does not detract from the fact that God used then to awaken an interest in end time events and prophetic interpretation. There is nothing stopping God from using natural events and that does not undermine from his purpose.

    One thought we may like to consider about signs:

    For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 1Cor 1 21-23

    If we have heeded the signs and preach the message of the Gospel as a result, then the signs have indeed done their work.

    (41)
    • Totally Agree with you Maurice. Such positions on Prophecy interpretation are not correct. Jesus in Mathew 24 talks of a Global Phenomenal not small events happening in Lisbon or Part of New York. They are yet to take Place.

      (11)
  2. What is strange is that all along the rest of the seals are all interpreted as being symbolic and then suddenly these signs become literal?

    The historic Adventist view is that this is fulfilled by:

    (1) Lisbon earthquake of 1755
    (2) The Dark Day of May 19, 1780
    (3) The meteor shower over the Atlantic Nov 13, 1833

    What is the problem with this interpretation?

    First, I am not being dogmatic and saying this absolutely cannot be correct, only questioning it and suggesting an alternate understanding that seems to make more sense.

    The problems with this historic interpretation:

    (i) It suddenly shifts from symbolic to literal without any real reason to do so; is there anything in the text that says the seals now contain literal elements?

    (ii) If we take the earthquake Sun, Moon, stars literally and apply it to the events above, what about the mountains and islands being moved from their location—how can we ignore those aspects?

    (iii) It places the events of the sixth seal before 1844, yet the events which began in 1844 are described in the fifth seal.

    (iv) It makes the signs of this event far removed from the generation living at the time of the second advent such that it has no actual impact on the people living in our day

    So, what might a symbolic, rather than literal, interpretation be?

    The great controversy war between Christ and Satan is being fought in the hearts and minds of us on earth? The weapons are ideas and thoughts, accusations against the character of God?

    So, could this be symbolic of the warfare moving into its final phase before Christ returns?

    And throughout human history and Bible history, what has the Sun, Moon and stars always symbolised? The Creator—God. So, could the blackening of the sun, a blood moon and the falling stars symbolise the loss of the belief in God from humanity? Thoughts?

    (7)
    • Stephen, you have some good questions. I believe the 6th seal is literal because it makes sense literally and so should be taken literally. Also the 7th seal which is the second coming is also literal. Also Jesus mentions the stars falling and dark day after the tribulation. He does not mention the earthquake in this passage. Matthew 24:29 says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken." Interestingly history tells us that while the 1260 days in in 1798, that the persecution of protestants greatly decreased around 1760. Jesus did not mention the earthquake because it came before the tribulation ended. He mentions the others as taking place right after the tribulation which 1780 and 1833 fall in perfectly. That is why I take them literally.

      (9)
    • “. . . the repeated usage of the word ‘as’ or ‘like’ (Gr. hos) in the text appears to be very significant. The sun becomes black as sackcloth, the moon as blood, the stars of the sky fall as do the figs of the fig tree, and heaven splits as the papyrus scroll. In Greek, this word ‘introduces a figurative analogy to an actual event’ which is compared with something figurative. This suggests that these heavenly signs are intended to be taken literally.” (Ranko Stefanovic, Revelation of Jesus Christ, p. 244)

      (3)
    • I fully agree with you, Stephen. It seems that this idea came from Tim Jennings (of Come and Reason. I listen to his discussions also, and download his PDF manuscript each week. It's probably good to attribute the source when we use Jennings' (or other peoples' ideas) directly. Thanks

      (2)
  3. Do we believe that these literal signs - earthquakes, dark sun, blood moon, falling stars will be repeated just before Jesus' Second Coming?
    Or maybe should we look at them as symbolic? If so what would they represent?
    Is our church being shaken? Are the people being shaken?
    Is the light of the Son being covered?
    Are the stars - the messengers, leaders - of the church falling?
    What does the question "who will be able to stand" reminds us?
    Maybe: Eph 6:11-13  Put on the whole armor of God so that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.  12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  13  Therefore take to yourselves the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
    What is armor of God?
    Eph 6:14-18  Therefore stand, having your loins girded about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness  15  and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace.  16  Above all, take the shield of faith, with which you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.  17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God,  18  praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching to this very thing with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.

    (10)
  4. The more I study about the seals in Revelation I struggle with 'literal' vs 'figurative'. Regardless however we understand it we only have our lifetime to have a relationship with Jesus our Saviour and to share that with our family, friends and 'neighbours'!

    (8)
  5. Let me attempt the question "Who shall be able to stand?"

    There is a beautiful answer in chapter 7: the 144,000. What is their character? It is described in detail in Rev 14:1-5.

    Are there other parts of the Bible where the question is asked? YES:
    1. Psalms 15
    2. Isaiah 33:14-16
    3. Malachi 3:2
    4. Joel 2: 2,11 and answered in vs 12-14
    5. and of course 6:17, answered in chapter 7, and 14:1-5.

    (4)
  6. I thought I had posted this yesterday...

    I am led to suggest the events in this 6th seal are possibly not the same as the events long believed to be the fulfillment of Jesus in Matt 24. In the Revelation, as I have come to understand it over the years, we find many descriptions and terms that are symbolic of real events/conditions/etc. As presented in this 6th seal, I get the impression of events which all will witness prior to Jesus' return, some being listed among the 7 plagues. The 6th seal presents a brief overview of the time of Jesus' appearing, with a focus that is really being directed by THE QUESTION in verse 17, and ANSWERED in chapter 7, which is part of and the main focus of the 6th seal. This seems to be no "interlude" as some have suggested over the years, but a vivid and real part of the 6th seal, since it is in this period that the saints are "perfected" as foretold in the 5th seal(verse 11), which must take place before Jesus appears the 2nd time. Once Jesus has left heaven, probation has closed, the pleading for sinners has ceased and every mind made up. Robes have either been washed and made white in the blood of the Lamb, or they remain defiled by sin. Notice there is no 3rd option or exemptions, for you and I will either have overcome sin, or have been overcome by sin.

    For the falling of the stars: see Dan 11:41

    For the sun losing it's light: no more "light" for those rejecting the truth, a famine of God's word.

    The moon as blood: What do you conclude if considering Rev 12:1? We might also see this as representing the trampling of God's law, which I believe the moon represents as it reflects the glory(sunlight) of God, though the woman is clothed in the glory of God's Divine nature(the sun).

    The great earthquake: rather simple if considering Rev 11:13 as an example of how this event might describe something similar but universal as sinners face this intervention by God for His people. Fortunes are reversed in a moment, which the "earthquake" of Rev 11:13 depicts during the period of the 6th trumpet, which is now history.

    Just examples for my reasoning at this time.

    However, the great focus here for God's people is Rev 7, which is the greatest portion of this 6th seal. Study it closely, as if all eternity for you was in the balance. This chapter is one of the highlights of the Revelation. It describes those who are "able to stand" the sight of Jesus' who has return as promised for them that are His. It remains a bright lamp for our feet and light for our path at this late hour.

    (2)
  7. I believe equally significant in this discussion is that it doesn't stop with earthquake, sun, moon and stars. The next sentence talks about the sky splitting, about people hiding in caves. These are clearly future and presumably literal. I think that speaks both to the timing and meaning of this seal. If one tries to place it in a historical parallel with the sixth church, one has to stop at the end of verse 13, because 14 - 17 just don't fit.

    (2)
    • I don't see any parallel with any church in the 6th seal due to the fact that probation is now closed, where with all 7 of the churches, the call to "repent" signals probation remains. This 6th seal marks the close of probation, which should add a real sense of urgency for any still needing to repent in order to be justified/sanctified before the Lord appears. Isn't this the true message of this 6th seal, revealed in mercy before the time comes for it's fulfillment?

      (1)
      • I agree--that was where I was headed. This blog has spent a fair amount of time this week discussing whether the 7 seals parallel the 7 churches. I'm becoming strongly of the opinion that they do not. The first four can be made to fit without a lot of effort, but the fact that # 5 is so different from the first four starts hinting to me that paralleling the churches is not the intent. Then #6 starts off like it might be 18th - 19th century events, but transitions immediately to 2nd coming events. Then there is what is called the interlude, but which is really part of the message of the seals in chapter 7 and the last, 7th seal in ch 8 appears to be the second coming. Add to this the parallel between the white horse in the first seal and the white horse in ch 19, and it is easy to conclude that we may have been missing the point somewhere. It is possible there is a historical timeline involved (although I'm not sure that was intended nor necessary), but to say the least, it isn't exactly the same timeline, because it diverges significantly by the sixth seal.

        I'm inclined to view the first four as descriptions of the gospel delivery and reception, whether starting with the apostolic church or with any Christian movement (including a warning to our own), or in the individual lives of believers. It is a trend or progression to be wary of. The last three seem to be about last day events, which I realize is a slippery word, but used here meaning primarily at our own time and forward.

        And of course, there is the reality that Revelation itself never mentions what the scroll said, even though that was what John wanted to know in chapter 5. I am also tempted to conclude that this might be the same scroll the angel is carrying in chapter 10, although I need to dig into that more.

        It is humbling to know how much we don't know.

        (2)
        • Appreciate your discussion Wilton. I'd like to suggest the 7th seal is after Jesus' return since He clearly has appeared to the dismay and utter horror of the wicked in the 6th seal. What I have recently considered the 7th seal to indicate is the last event that must take place before the "unrolling of the scroll". What is that? Well, I believe we DO know the contents of the scroll, which is from God, and would indicate the accomplishing of His will, which is saving sinners and restoring the first dominion to what it was before sin entered. So what is the last thing to be accomplished for this to happen? The events of Rev 20; the judgment of the "dead" and their final reward of eternal death, the wages of sin. Why the silence? God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and those who have been sanctified by the truth will reflect Jesus fully, being partakers of the Divine nature. They too will find no cause to rejoice when the wicked receive their wages for eternity. I believe this will be a very sober and solemn event, and when completed, God will create a new heaven and a new earth, which is the unrolling of the scroll as I presently understand it. Sin will not arise again.

          (2)
          • All well said. We know that the oriental mind does not process things in the strict linear order that the western mind does. Revelation cannot be seen as a strict chronology. Witness the fact that Chapter 12 jumps back to the time of Christ and paints 2000 years of history with very broad strokes. So I'm not certain that we are best off attempting to assign dates or time periods to the seals, but rather to see it as part of the flow or story of salvation. But it is reasonable to consider the seventh seal to be after the second coming. And I definitely appreciate that sin will not rise a second time. I've called this planet the petri dish in which God is incubating the vaccine against sin. The whole universe gets to see where Satan's ideas lead, and all know from experience that they never want to go down that path--possibly the only way beings could be created with free choice and yet there be no fear of sin re-emerging.

            (0)

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