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Sabbath: The Fall — 24 Comments

  1. It is interesting that the scene for the fall was the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" Gen 2:9. Knowing is not necessarily understanding, nor is it wisdom.

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  2. I'm sure there is a proper name in English, which does not come to mind in my old age, for gaining knowledge by books, a rather motionless knowledge in a passive way, compared to knowledge by experience that requires effort and much practice. *Hands on* versus *head knowledge*

    Notice the serpent, who has a lot of knowledge, as a Morning Star,
    plants a thought in Eve's mind that underminds God's motivations. Conversely, in Job, Satan tries to plant a thought in God's mind that undermines the motivations of these humans as represented by Job.

    So the plot is set by Satan, (what's his motivation ...yup) he tries to plot God against mankind and mankind against God.

    However, God is beyond knowledge, since he created it, and in his foreknowledge of the beginning to our rest in his eternal Sabbath, he seen in the future many humans that would love righteousness and hate wickedness (even in a their imperfect state) and allowed the suffering and pain in his long suffering for the good of the many immortal sons that in His foreordained fail/safe plan many immortal sons and daughters are produced in the eternal covenant in the Godhead.
    Ephesians 1 Romans 8

    What's at stake in short is perfection in Godly Motivation.
    Motivations are the root of evil desires
    James chapter 1, Deuteronomy 8:1-2

    Shalom in Christ 🙏

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  3. I would like to again invite you to stop and join with me in studying and considering our bible (always under the guidance of the Holy Spirit) a bit more deeply and carefully. As an example, I invite you to consider the concept suggested by the lesson (which is also widely suggested within Christianity) that if Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of life, they would have become 'eternal/immortal' sinners.

    What does this imply? It implies that living in a sinful (lawless: 1 John 3:4) state is actually a viable reality and therefore option - that life can exist even when it is at odds with God and therefore can exist apart from God. Does this implied suggestion sound familiar (Genesis 3:1, 4-5)? But lawlessness, by virtue of its innate inability to contribute to the order that is inherently necessary for actual/true life*, is functionally incapable of supporting actual/true life. Therefore, sin cannot even (self-)exist for a moment, let alone become immortal. Further, the suggestion that Adam and Eve could have become immortal by eating of the Tree of Life suggests that the fruit of the tree itself is the source of life - rather than God (Acts 17:28).

    What if we take the time to look more carefully at the Hebrew word in Genesis 3:22 - leolam - that English translators have translated as "forever", and if we look at other usages of that exact same word by Moses (Exodus 21:6) and other bible writers 1 Kings 1:31? What we see is that the particular meaning of leolam in a particular passage is tied to the thing it is being associated with. When leolam is tied to God, it typically is expressing an eternal time-span. However, when leolam is tied to human beings whilst on earth, it is expressing a long or extended time-span, but not eternal. With this in mind, it appears that God was restraining Adam and Eve's access to the Tree of Life out of mercy (beneficence) because while the Tree did not in and of itself have the power of life, it appears it did have some 'supernutrient' (for want of a better word) qualities that would contribute to enhanced lifespan.

    It is also interesting that there is no suggestion in the bible text that Adam and Eve had to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the garden - or that they even complained or protested. I would propose they willingly, though doubtless self-disappointedly regretfully, exited the garden and were grateful that their time wasn't further extended upon the now fallen world that they would have been all too aware was the inherent consequence of what they had actually done (rather than a punishment for mere disobedience).

    What do you (carefully) think?

    -----
    * By 'actual life' I am referring to what life truely is (as per Jesus statement in John 10:10) rather than this temporarily 'artificial' probationary state that God's grace has made possible only for the purposes of salvation. While most people would consider they are alive and living, they are in fact 'dead man walking' (as per Ephesians 2:1-3) and that only because God is temporarily restraining the full and inherent consequences of lawlessness that would otherwise have happened - and one day will: non-life/death.

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    • One bite from the tree of life does not make one immediately immortal. Hence, Eve was not immortalized !

      The eternal Life of the Spirit is a token currently in us, to perfect us FOR immortality.

      The token of eternal life from the Spirit is a down payment in us, until redemption of the possession in Chrsit's inheritance.
      Ephesians 1:14,

      Jesus is the immortal life seed.
      A seed must grow.
      2 Peter 1:3-14

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    • Phil – as I consider your thoughts:
      The Tree of Life was present in Eden and will still be present in the new world available to those who live according to God’s Will in New Jerusalem – Rev.22:1-2.
      If the inhabitants of the New Jerusalem can and do participate in eating the ‘Fruits of the Tree of Life’, do all created beings living in Heaven also participate in this ‘live-enhancing 'super nutrient'’?
      Since eating from the Tree of Life's fruit appears to be ongoing, could it be that the existence of the Tree of Life and eating its fruit relate to the spiritual aspect of Life-ever-lasting - enhancing its vitality?
      As an aside - after deceiving Adam and Eve, did Lucifer have still access in heaven to the Tree of Life? If so, was his access eventually denied or does he still have access since he still lives?

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      • Some interesting considerations Brigitte.

        As to whether all created beings living in heaven also participate in eating from the Tree of Life, I do not know and will have to wait until heaven to find out.

        As to whether eating from the Tree of Life relates to the spiritual aspect of ever-lasting life, I suspect it relates more to the physical which in turn will enhance our spiritual capacity as a healthy body supports a healthy mind and spirit.

        Regarding Lucifer having access to the Tree of Life, I do not find evidence that he ever did - only to the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Also, I would say that Lucifer still exists rather than lives as he is certainly not living true, abundant life. I believe God is continuing to restrain the inherent self-destructive consequences of what Lucifer unleashed when he 'rebelled' against the Kingdom of God and therefore against the only viable life that is possible. I believe God has continued and will continue to restrain these consequences until the end of the 1000 years - at which point God will release that restraint and Satan will finally experience the inherent self-destruction that otherwise would have happened the day he rebelled.

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    • Phil, I love your comments and I rarely differ in opinion but on this one I do. Sin has existed in Lucifer/Satan for quite a long span. Much of the time it was in God’s very presence. God has allowed this. Although he is not going to-will not be allowed to live forever, he has been around for a very long time. We know this cosmic scene must play out so that Sin never raises its ugly head again.

      Adam and Eve were removed from access from the tree of life which fulfilled their sentence to experience the first death.

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      • Thanks for your contribution Jim. We need to each be convinced in our own mind regarding what we believe and why (Romans 14:5b) - so differing opinions will arise at times. However, I am not yet clear on which aspect you differ as I agree with what you have written in your first paragraph. Would you be able to clarify a bit further so I can better understand your differing perspective as I too follow your input on this forum.

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        • I your first comment in the 2nd paragraph you wrote, “ Therefore, sin cannot even (self-)exist for a moment, let alone become immortal.” But it has been allowed to self exist in Satan for thousands of years and for sure the potential for Sin has always/will always exist or there would not be free will.

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          • Thanks Jim - now I have a better sense of what you are saying.

            I have a couple of questions to ask you:

            1) Is sin a thing that exists independently of a person/being?

            2) Is sin capable of inherently supporting life?

            Thanks

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    • Hi Phil, I’m trying to understand what you are saying in your comment. The way it comes across to me is that you believe there was a different reason God sent Adam and Eve from the garden other than the one given in Genesis 3:22? It seems crystal clear to me and it makes sense that they were to not eat from the tree of life for the reason given. Why else would they be sent from the garden?

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      • Hi Karen

        Thanks for your question. I do not believe there was a different reason that God 'sent' Adam and Eve from the garden other than the one given in Genesis 3:22. What I have attempted to do is unpack what I find that reason to actually have been.

        A theology teacher I respected used to often say, "that's what the words (of the bible text) say, but what do they mean?" This is something we typically don't give enough attention to and therefore, I propose, (unintentionally) mistakenly derive meanings that weren't intended by the bible authors - such as it being actually, viably possible for a 'sinner' to live forever in a sinful state because sin is somehow allegedly capable of actually supporting life.

        However, I understand there are some who think that I am taking the bible text beyond what was meant. That is why I present what I find and leave people free to do their own research and decide for themselves what they believe (Acts 17:11).

        If you have further questions, please ask.

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  4. According to EG White 10.1

    God, in counsel with His Son, formed the plan of creating man in His own image. Man was to be placed upon probation. He was to be tested and proved; if he should bear the test of God, and remain loyal and true through the first trial, he was not to be beset with continual temptations, but was to be exalted equal with the angels and made, thenceforth, immortal.

    I find this interesting, which it seems to me that there was always going to be a test. But it has also been explained to me that the plan of salvation was always in affect, which means that our Creator know we were going to fail. Any comments?

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  5. Satan, the fallen angel, had declared that no man could keep God's law, and he pointed to the disobedience of Adam as proving the declaration true.—The Signs of the Times, April 10, 1893. TA 58.3

    Adam understood that his companion had transgressed the command of God, disregarded the only prohibition laid upon them as a test of their fidelity and love. There was a terrible struggle in his mind. He mourned that he had permitted Eve to wander from his side. But now the deed was done; he must be separated from her whose society had been his joy. How could he have it thus? He resolved to share her fate; if she must die, he would die with her. After all, he reasoned, might not the words of the wise serpent be true? Eve was before him, as beautiful, and apparently as innocent, as before this act of disobedience. She expressed greater love for him than before. No sign of death appeared in her, and he decided to brave the consequences. He seized the fruit, and quickly ate. TA 57.2

    I see free will here from Adam and it was over love for his wife. If she was to die, he would want to die. He knew the consequences and was willing to proceed.

    Maybe this is why Jesus was willing to die for us. The 1st Adam was willing to die with his wife. The 2nd Adam (a better Adam) was willing to die not with us, but for us. (I hope I'm seeing this correctly).

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  6. I believe we are so blessed to have the truth of Word of the LORD. In addition we have been given additional information through the pen of EG White. Therefore I will not be like Eve and listen to those who present a different interpretation of what the LORD has given us in His Word.
    I believe God's Principles of Life included blessings for obeying and consequences for disobedience applied by the LORD himself.

    2Cor 11:3-4
    I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.

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  7. I started to reflect on the definition of ‘Good and Evil’ a bit deeper. What if these two words actually express one aspecct of man's heart and mind – intellectual awareness? Giving them two names - 'good and evil’ -, is really only one - intellectual awareness. If one is aware of good, one is aware of evil. One cannot be aware of one without being aware of the other.

    As Maurice pointed out, ‘knowing is not necessarily understanding, nor is it wisdom’. This level of knowing and understanding is revealed by/through the Holy Spirit as man decides to believe in the Word of God. I consider the ‘Fall of Man' is evidenced by a world without the true understanding of 'good and evil'. In my opinion, living and applying man's own,'human' understanding of good and evil is that which became the problems of the world.
    To rescue us from the effects of the problems of our own making and to show us the 'Way' to escape it, God sent His Son by giving us the Word of God and His Spirit of Truth.

    I am certain that, if our Creator would not have intervened on behalf of man on so many occasions, the world and mankind would be even worse off. Considering the declaration from Gen.3:15 in light of these circumstances, one could see it as a prediction, a foretelling of that which man will experience - the battle between two armees/camps; one, the adversaries of God – those applying man’s own understanding of good and evil/right and wrong’; the other, those who apply and live the Word of God, His Wisdom and Understanding of ‘Rightness’.

    In my opinion, the focus of all of Scripture, not just the book of Genesis, is to impart this understanding to fallen man that God-Who-Knows’ is our Creator; that He already established the 'right and wrong'; that His Wisdom perfectly distinguishes good and evil; that He is the source of all Life, and that human needs to apply His Word in order to live!

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  8. The book Untamed by Glennon Doyle has recently been #1 on Bestseller lists and I’ve read several social media posts from well-known women saying that this book has been for them a lifeline.

    Here are a few of Glennon’s quotes:

    “I don’t know if I call myself a Christian anymore. That label suggests certainty, and I have none. It suggests the desire to convert others, and that’s the last thing I want to do. It suggests exclusive belonging, and I’m not sure I belong anywhere anymore. Part of me wants to peel that label off, set it down, and try to meet each person soul to soul, without any layers between us.”

    “It's every time we (women) admit that we want more, we're told we should just be grateful for what you have. It's the first story I ever learned about women, like the story of Eve: If you want more and you go for it, you will destroy yourself and the world.”

    “…we hear from women that their taming, their social programming, came when they learned how to be quiet, and kind, and sweet, and accommodating, and pleasing, and pretty.”

    “ When women lose themselves, the world loses its way. We do not need more selfless women. What we need right now is more women who have detoxed themselves so completely from the world's expectations that they are full of nothing but themselves. What we need are women who are full of themselves. A woman who is full of herself knows and trusts herself enough to say and do what must be done. She lets the rest burn.”

    “ Maybe Eve was never meant to be our warning. Maybe she was meant to be our model. Own your wanting. Eat the apple. Let it burn.”

    “It struck me that in every family, culture, or religion, ideas of right and wrong are the hot cattle prods, the barking sheepdogs that keep the masses in the herd. They are the bars that keep us caged. I decided that if I kept doing the "right" thing, I would spend my life following someone else's directions instead of my own. I didn't want to live my life without living my life. I wanted to make my own decision as a free woman, from my soul, not my training. But the problem was, I didn't know how.”

    “And now that we don’t have to be good, we can be free.”

    The Serpent is still saying the same lies, all of these thousands of years later. Do our girls want more? Do they understand the beauty of God’s character shown in His laws, or do they feel forced to be accommodating and pleasing to religious rules? Do our children feel that Christianity is composed of layers that separate them from other people, or does the Jesus they know join them to other people? Are we showing our girls (and boys) the fullness and joy of life in Christ so that they are not tempted by hollow words like these? Does the god of self repulse us?

    The word “Eden” means “place of pleasure”. Our growing relationship of trust and humility with God is our greatest pleasure. Please pray with me that we experience this and that we model this and share this with our children. 🙏

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    • Thank you, Esther, for this example of the serpent still speaking the same message to the women of today in a popular bestseller. I looked up the book and notice that the "freedom" this woman found was in leaving her husband and hooking up with another woman. One of the Amazon customers "wanted to love the book" but called it "sanctimonious, self-centered." Another reviewer notes, "She essentially says that you should live by whatever you feel or believe at the moment, which by her own admission, changes all the time." Self-centered and guided by feelings of the moment - isn't that Satan's goal for us?

      One reviewer saw through the hype and recognized the serpent behind it, writing:

      I was especially troubled by her interpretation of Genesis. The Adam and Eve story isn’t about a woman stepping out of her bounds. It’s about the danger of pride and “thinking we know better than God” in causing sin - which distances us from God. The rest of the Bible can be thought of the story of God’s work to bring us back to Him.

      What is especially troubling to me that one reader reported that "it was suggested by a chiropractor & listed as a Christian Self-Help book." So the serpent's message may be packaged as "Christian." We need to be constantly seeking the Holy Spirit's help to discern between God's ways and the serpent's ways and cannot rely on the recommendations of others.

      The devil still promises "freedom" from God's Law, but it is a false freedom. It actually results in slavery to sin. The only true freedom is found in harmony with His law of love. See Gal. 5:1; Ps 119:45; Isa 61:1. It is only in harmony with this Law that we can have the "abundant life" Jesus promises. John 10:10

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      • Yes, yes, Inge, amen! The bait Eve took, and Glennon Doyle is taking, is all about (1) “wanting more” and (2) looking for “more” in self-seeking. The temptation is to forsake the Blessor for the blessing. King David took that bait. King Solomon, the wise man, took that bait. How do I take that bait? One way is when I think my past was better than my present or future.

        Eve had everything already! She lived in a perfect world. Did she forget to be grateful? She had every fruit to freely eat, that was also beautiful to the eyes, and most importantly she had daily communion with God, walking together. This is so important that it’s the first and last of the Commandments: #10 promises that when we’re wrapped up in God we won’t covet what we don’t have and #1 promises that hearts wrapped in Him will put God #1 and not fall for putting any of our own thoughts before God’s Words. Inge, you share an important reminder to be aware when a book is labeled “Christian”and “self-help”: yes, somewhere in it the message needs to be that we can’t help ourselves and we need a Savior.

        I am grateful we can share our honest feelings with God. If at any time we’re feeling unsatisfied, we can tell Him and He’ll clear our vision and set our feet back onto paths within His kingdom away from temptation. Isaiah 9:6 reminds us that Jesus is our Counselor. Glennon’s then-husband had been repeatedly unfaithful to her. When others trespass against us can definitely be a time when Satan sets bait tempting us to rely on self.

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  9. Maurice, I find it interesting that the serpent did not seem to be lying when he said, "you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:22--"And the Lord God said, 'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.'"

    So, is there a different meaning to knowledge of good and evil? Thanks so much, Maurice--and anyone else reading this.

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    • I saw a sentence in the lesson that said that serpent means the words of God... On the sunday lesson the serpent... I don't understand what that means

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      • Satan sometimes quotes the Word of the LORD but twists the meaning. He implied that knowing good and evil was a good thing and that God was depriving them. When in fact the LORD was protecting them from all the pain and suffering we know now days. Many lies are successful because they contain some truth. Eve swallowed the lie because she thought it would make her wise but in fact it was just the opposite, she should have trusted the words of the LORD.
        Watch out for anyone who says God said xxxx but He doesn't really mean it, let me tell you what it means.

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