Friday: Further Thought ~ The Flood
Further Thought:
A comparison between the mentality and the behavior of the people and the state of the world before the Flood and that of the people in our days is particularly instructive. To be sure, human wickedness is not a new phenomenon. Look at the parallels between their time and ours.
Image © Stan Myers from GoodSalt.com
“The sins that called for vengeance upon the antediluvian world exist today. The fear of God is banished from the hearts of men, and His law is treated with indifference and contempt. The intense worldliness of that generation is equaled by that of the generation now living … God did not condemn the antediluvians for eating and drinking … Their sin consisted in taking these gifts without gratitude to the Giver, and debasing themselves by indulging appetite without restraint. It was lawful for them to marry. Marriage was in God’s order; it was one of the first institutions which He established. He gave special directions concerning this ordinance, clothing it with sanctity and beauty; but these directions were forgotten, and marriage was perverted and made to minister to passion. A similar condition of things exists now. That which is lawful in itself is carried to excess … Fraud and bribery and theft stalk unrebuked in high places and in low. The issues of the press teem with records of murder … The spirit of anarchy is permeating all nations, and the outbreaks that from time to time excite the horror of the world are but indications of the pent-up fires of passion and lawlessness that, having once escaped control, will fill the earth with woe and desolation. The picture which Inspiration has given of the antediluvian world represents too truly the condition to which modern society is fast hastening. Even now, in the present century, and in professedly Christian lands, there are crimes daily perpetrated as black and terrible as those for which the old-world sinners were destroyed.” — Ellen G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, Pages 101, 102.
Discussion Questions:
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Is it possible that among the people we could meet in heaven would be some who perished in the flood that Noah preached about?
Why or why not? (I encourage you to think carefully about this.)
I think it's possible. For example, perhaps there was a woman who wanted to go in the ark, but her husband prevented her. Or perhaps some (or all children) would be in that category. I guess it depends on the way you look at what determines the salvation of people who have not reached the age of accountability.
I have to be honest, the flood story discourages me. After 120 years, not one person responded to Noah's preaching. I know some righteous people died before the flood, but it blows me away that no one responded. If it is a reflection of the end times, it doesn't look very hopeful. However, I have heard someone suggest that perhaps the wicked were murdering the righteous and that's why there was no one to go in. Or perhaps the flood was necessary because the people were so hard and nothing God could do could bring them to repentance at this point.
I wonder too how many people were on the earth at this time and how far they had spread out. After a thousand years, there should be a decent size population, but if they were too spread out, how would they hear Noah preach? These things puzzle me, but I do believe the flood was universal, not local, based on other references to it in the Bible. I guess God will answer my questions one day.
I found the chapter on the flood in Patriarchs and Prophets very enlightening including the following quote. It seems there were people who responded to Noah's preaching but 'the delay' and the prevailing theories in the world caused them to lose their faith in the LORD. I find it scary how much people now days are like those just prior to the flood. People saying we have a misperception of the character of God, that the authors of the Word of the LORD were influenced by their culture, or saying that it was contrary to the character of God to punish transgression; and they deny that His judgments are to be visited upon the earth. Do we have "idols" - preachers who use reason to subtly (like the serpent) change the Word of the LORD and claim that through their reason/philosophy people will obtain a clearer conception of God?
Patriarchs and Prophets pg 95
Thanks for your thoughtful response, Christina. I concur with your thoughts, considering the thief on the cross who had lived a sinful life but at the last realized His need of the Savior and longed to be in His Kingdom with Him.
I think it is possible that some left outside the ark may have repented because the people were not killed all at once, without warning. It took days for the waters to rise far enough to blot out human life, and that time left time for repentance for those not totally hardened against the Spirit of God. But "possible" is not the same as "likely."
I believe the story of the Flood, while discouraging about the state of humanity at the time, is a story demonstrating the grace of God. He invested 120 years to warn the population of the time and to offer a way of escape. I believe the population was sizable, but that length of time allowed everyone to hear the message of mercy and coming judgment. I suspect that the site of building the boat was a major tourist destination. The people who came heard the message first-hand, and they would spread it to others - most likely in mocking tones.
We are close to a similar time, but this time, according to Revelation, God has an army of faithful ones (the 144,000) to proclaim the message that combines mercy with justice - mercy in offering salvation and justice in warning of coming destruction for those who refuse to accept salvation. And everyone will choose one side or the other.
However, Revelation 22:11 says that those who are "...unjust, will be unjust still;" ... and "he who is righteous let him be righteous still;..."
So, it seems that after the close of probation it is over - we no longer have time to change our minds. I believe it was the same in Noah's time, although there may have been people considering the truth, by the time the ark closed (representing close of probation), the reality of the warning may then have caused those outside of the ark to realise that what Noah was saying was the truth, but it was too late. We are to make decisions for God in faith, not only when we see the physical evidence.
I suppose that this question is similar to how EGW indicates that some of us will be put to sleep before "The Great Time of Trouble" starts but will still make it to heaven and be resurrected with the saved for eternity. Maybe many were put to sleep before Noah and his family entered the ark to brave the flood waters along with the animals in the ark too and will be raised to meet Jesus in the clouds with the living saved soon and very soon. But I sort of doubt that there will be any that perished in the flood waters that will be saved for eternity just like probably none will be saved that end up perishing from the last seven plagues.
AGREED! How many people were prevented by physical force, shame, distance from the ark when the rain began…? How many people who had been convinced by Noah’s message but distracted by the length of time until fulfillment of the flood prophecy, returned to belief when the rain began to fall? How many who relied on the “experts” that opposed Noah’s predictions became convinced when the rain began to fall during the earth’s upheaval, and then repented? What was Jesus’s response to the thief next to Him on another cross-who repented and asked for mercy? How do we believe GOD responded to those who repented treading water next to the floating ark?
My thoughts are that God would never have closed the door on the Ark if he new there was even "ONE" person that was going to repent once the doors closed. I feel He new the very day that the only person left "other than Noah and his family" that had even the tiniest bit of faith let it go and harden their heart against God.
Personally, I feel that God just mainly wanted to show how much He does care for His "Brute creation" to the point of allowing one man and his family to supervise His project of the ark to transport His brute creation safely to a new beginning along with also His main "Image Creation," in the man, Noah, and his family also to a new beginning. God did not need an "ark" to do this, He could have just waited until every "Godless human" died and then just started a new world that way.
The theme of Matt 24 in this section is the unexpectedness of Christ's return. And the comparison with the days before the flood was the unexpectedness of the event.
The other day I was supposed to keep a zoom meeting appointment. I had agreed to the agenda and had written it in my calendar and thought I would be right. Then on the day of the meeting, I got myself involved in a problem-solving situation that took the whole of my attention. I remembered the meeting, an hour and a half too late! I felt quite embarrassed and was sure that the other members would think I was getting a bit past it. Then I found out that the other two members of the meeting had embarrassed themselves by forgetting too.
I am not saying that wickedness is not an issue. But, it is easy to let the ordinary things of life crowd out the relationship we should have with our creator. Focus and perspective is important.
When Noah and his family came out of the Ark, the world must have looked astoundingly different to them. It could have even been overwhelming with many twinges of sadness. All they had known gone. Cousins and aunts, uncles, more distant family, and friends too. Reminders of destruction and the full stop end of their former life everywhere. Maybe God had made a new green garden for them, or maybe there were only the barest traces of new greenery available. While they must have been delighted to be out of the Ark and the smells and care of all the critters, and to stretch their legs better and smell fresh air once more, it was still very much an act of faith to give thanks first thing on that mountaintop, considering what they had lost and all the work ahead of them to start over from scratch.
I mentioned in an earlier post this week of how I'm moving in with my elderly Mom. It's a choice that I believe is Spirit-led and the best for all and I have gratitude that I am able to do this for my Mom. And also this is a difficult thing and an end to much of my former independent life. And facing more clearly the changes in our relationship, the nearing end of our time together and a future on planet Earth without her.
For my worship this morning, I read Isaiah 43. For a beautiful read I recommend the whole chapter, especially Is. 43:1-7,11-13,15-19. Such a beautiful chapter and full of God's relational personal Love. Israel would come out of exile and God reminds them to look to how He provided for them in the past in leading them out of Egypt and dramatically through the Red Sea. But also reminds them to "forget the former things" because the "new thing" that God would do for them would be even more spectacular than the first exodus (Is. 43:18-19).
God gave us the gift of memory. It seems He wants us to remember the past, but to not let what was overshadow His current involvement in our lives. Yes, He led us THEN and that bolsters our faith in His tender provision. Yes, the Ark made it safely through. Yes, God led us to be inside the Ark. Yes, God gave me a teaching career and more energy once. Now, how is He leading as we walk down off of the Ararat Mtns.? Now, how do I serve Him in a new town and a new home? NOW what is God doing for us? What is the fresh work of God's Spirit today?
Dear Lord, please help us to stay current with You and what you are doing with us and for us, right now, so we can better partner with You in bringing Your Love to others. Help us to press on to what is ahead (Phil. 3:12-14); help us to fully rejoice in being a part of Your new creation. In Jesus' name, Amen.
Today's lesson includes a quote from Patriarchs and Prophets that refers to "The sins that called for vengeance upon the antediluvian world exist today." What is the nature of that vengeance?
I have included a couple of paragraphs by the same author (along with links to enable exploration of the wider context) that I find unpacks details regarding specifically what that vengeance is and how is is manifest. I find many parallels between the paragraph included in today's lesson and the ones presented below, suggesting they are talking about the same pervasive principles that apply consistently across the antediluvian world (the time prior to and including the flood), the destruction of Jerusalem, and the destruction yet to come at the end of this world. I find these also parallel Galatians 6:7-8 which outlines the basis upon which God "will not be mocked" - meaning the basis upon which God will be vindicated of false representations about Him. What do you find upon careful examination of these passages for yourself?
Just a few minutes before I read the comment about the flood story being discouraging to someone, I was thinking that the flood story was encouraging to me because it demonstrates that God will destroy evil at some point. Right now when it seems evil is rising so rapidly with the senseless violence in Ukraine and all around us, I am tempted to be discouraged. It is comforting to know that God does plan to end it after giving ample opportunity to everyone to choose His way. I’m so glad I can trust Him with dealing with all the innocent people who are collateral damage daily to all the violence in this world.
Sue I was contemplating the same as you. If it wasn't for the hope of a better day the injustice and evil in America would consume many. There are some people eating, drinking and being marry but there are so many others that are marginalized and treated unfairly in this corrupt worldly system. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness. I need this to be over and I look to my Lords saving grace.
After studying this week’s lesson, my focus is on the never ending love and compassion the heavenly Father shows toward His creation. Quoting Ellen White: “God did not condemn the antediluvians for eating and drinking …. Their sin consisted in taking these gifts without gratitude to the Giver, and debasing themselves by indulging in appetite without restraint.”
There is no end to the forms life manifests which show man’s spiritual separation from his Maker. It does not help to know all the forms which expresses this, it is important to know how to prevent ‘sin’ from overtaking ‘life’.
Both Christianity and Judaism see sin as a deliberate violation of the will of God and as being attributable to human pride, self-centeredness, and disobedience.” (Encyclopedia Britannica)
I see man’s willful separation from the Creator of Life to end his life. He/she allows the fallen nature to overtake his capacity to hear his Creator’s voice. Rejecting his Maker’s understanding of Life, basing his life instead on SELF-reliance, leads him to engage all his senses toward survival of his body, not realizing that man is a living soul; his effort toward his body’s survival may lead him to spiritual death.
I believe that sin, in its original form, is rejecting the Creator’s influence for all that is good in human's life. If man rejects Him, preferring his own will, who could count the many manifestations of this state of sin in the life of man?
Genesis 9:9-10 (and other places in chapter 9) mentioned that God made a covenant between the living creatures and Himself that "neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth" (Genesis 9:11).
If you do a small research on the internet, you will find that many persons lost their lives through floods (see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_floods).
How can we reconcile the reality of these floods that happened since the promise was made (and are still happening), with the promise that floods will not cut off lives?
How can persons that have experienced flooding or that live in countries that constantly are experiencing flooding, find peace with the promise in Genesis 9?
Yes, Ave, here in KZN, there was a flood last weekend that killed 435 people!
However if we look at the promise of the LORD He said "never will I send a flood that kills all life and destroys the earth/covers the whole earth" Gen 8:21,9:11,15; Isa 54:9
I believe the more frequent, with higher intensity, upheavals on earth are part of the signs of the time of the end.
We should heed the warnings, this time the earth will not be destroy by water but by fire. 2Peter 3:3-7
Dear sister DeBeer.
Sorry to hear about the lost of lives. I pray persons will still find strength from the Lord.
I asked the questions, because I believe it is sometimes difficult to reconcile the realities of flooding with the promise that no live will cut off.
My understanding is that the flood in Genesis is a direct act of God to destroy sin, while the floods that we see happening in our days are not Act of God. Sometimes these floods are results of the acts of men.
Persons that are suffering during the natural disasters need to be reminded that God is not "in the great and strong winds, neither in the earthquake and in the fire" (1 Kings 19:11-13). Even though persons are going through these unfortunate situations, He is extending an helpful hand (through His church) to alleviate the suffering.
God's promise was that a flood would not destroy the entire world at once as it did in Noah's time, i.e. a "reversal" of creation would not again happen. Rather, we know that He will completely destroy the earth by fire after taking His people to heaven and he will be creating a new earth that will be without sin.(Rev. 21:1)
So many thought-provoking comments, thank you. I would like to add one more and hope it's not too late.
Consider Noah's life and struggle during the 120 years. It appears to me that he did not have children (and possible no wife) prior to this 'flood ministry.'
(Gen 5:32 NET) After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
(Gen 6:3 NET) So the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain in humankind indefinitely, since they are mortal. They will remain for 120 more years.”
(Gen 7:6 NET) Noah was 600 years old when the floodwaters engulfed the earth.
So 600 - 120 = 480 years old, if God spoke to Noah at the time of God's proclamation of 120 years than Noah's family either consisted of himself or might have included a wife. Don't forget that each son and the wives were left, by God, to make up his/her mind. God does not force obedience just because he knows the outcome prior to.
I see this as a possible demonstration of how God mature's one slowly into His nature and the blessings one can receive/achieve should one stay faithful. It is my impression that the blessings along the way are evidence for our faith in the true God.
So, though our victories may be small in number, they are great in the eyes of our Lord and will last an eternity. May God help us to be faithful lights in the world and help us to be willing to persevere through the (what may be a lonely) struggle.
Gen 6:18 'But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee'.
I find this surprising. Hiw about others who may be faithful at that time?