Monday: Cosmic Conflict
The book of Job begins on earth, in a place of peace and tranquility.
However, by the sixth verse of the first chapter, the venue changes. It instantly shifts to an entirely different aspect of reality, one that is not seen by humans unless through divine revelation.
Image © Lars Justinen from GoodSalt.com
And interestingly enough, this other aspect of reality, heaven, doesn’t seem to be as tranquil and peaceful as things are on earth, at least in what is first presented here.
Read Job 1:6-12. Though we will study these texts in more detail later in this quarter, what is happening here? How does it contrast to what we have just seen happening with Job on earth?
There’s so much to explore in these few verses. They reveal aspects of our universe that all our space telescopes don’t detect and that human science doesn’t even begin to fathom. What’s fascinating, though, is that they also reveal a cosmic conflict. It’s not a calm, peaceful, and tranquil conversation that we access in this passage. God talks about Job with (to use a human idea) a sense of pride, like a father proud of his son. Satan, in contrast, mocks what God says about Job. “So Satan answered the LORD and said, ‘Does Job fear God for nothing?’ “(Job 1:9, NKJV). One could almost hear a sneering sarcasm, a mocking tone in what Satan says to God.
Though the text doesn’t explicitly say that this confrontation was in heaven, that’s surely where it was. And thus you have this created being, an angel, standing before God in heaven and challenging Him to His face, before other “sons of God.” It’s hard to imagine someone talking to a worldly leader like that, but here we have a being doing so to God Himself. How could this happen?
The answer is found in a theme that appears in various places and in different ways all through the Bible. It’s called the great controversy, and it provides a powerful template to help us understand not just the book of Job but the entire Bible and its explanation of the whole sad story of sin and suffering on earth. And even more important, it helps us better understand just what Jesus accomplished for us on the cross in order to solve the problem of sin and suffering on the earth.
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I am a SS discussion leader in my church, and I have to teach this lesson to our class. But sometimes, deep in my heart I myself have this nagging question: Why, just because there is a bet to settle between God and Satan, that we humans, are to suffer as what is called the “collateral damage?” There was this man in my class who have had a series of stroke and he cried his heart out in desperation. It is easy to quote the story of Job as the microcosm of the Cosmic Great Controversy that is also happening in our individual lives, and that our hope is in the Second Coming of Jesus. But as I tried to explain this to the class, I myself, have the same question, and I was afraid I would not be very convincing.
I believe William Earnhard's post has a little to say on the subject. Please check it out.
I would like to ask a question.The elder of my mother's church which is a Seventh Day Adventist Church said on Saturday in church that he does not sin.Can this be correct? According to the Bible we all are sinners.Can someone please explain?
1John 1:8,10 is very clear and in the light of these two verses in the New Testament that elder is very wrong and needs to be educated regarding these two verses in the Bible. Verse 8 indicates that anyone saying that they have no sin is deceiving themselves. Verse 9 further states that if we claim that we have never sinned we make God a liar making us void of having any truth in us. Only by the merits of Jesus can we claim any kind of sinlessness at all. If this elder is doing that he needs to always preface his statement with this in mind always.
Brother Ben, you can explain it to your class this way- The Great Controversy didn't start with Job, the Great Controversy starts in the Garden of Eden, when our first parent sinned, which resulted in their loses dominion of this world. At that very moment, Satan felt that he now had dominion over this world; I said "felt" because as today's lesson photo displays Satan does not have total dominion or control over this world, never has. Satan, even back then, could not do everything he wished to do with this world without God permission. He never had and never will have total dominance over this world. God did give Adam dominion over this world before they sinned, but He never give dominion to Satan. God proclaims to the serpent, in Genesis 3:15, that "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed"; this is the start of the Great Controversy. If Job had never existed, every man and woman living in this fallen world would still be subjected to the same trials and tribulation associated with living in this fallen world, where Satan is constantly trying to destroy our Faith in God. I have not read Brother Earnhard's blog yet, but I hope to make time to read it soon. I use to be a Bible worker in my younger day.
Thank you, I really appreciate this.
I want to thank all the brothers and sisters for your uplifting comments. But I think we need to understand that God does allow us to question Him, about anything. Remember, Elijah was so discouraged that He asked God to take his life. Now that's what I call questioning or doubting God big time. And there are many other examples in the Scripture where the patriarchs and the prophets did question God or even disobey Him, but He continued to love them. I think I do have pretty good understanding of the Great Controversy, or the Cosmic Conflict, or else I might have left long time ago. But as I stated in my original comment, a question does sneak into my soul, SOMETIMES, especially when we see what is going on in the world today. As long as we remember that all these are the signs of the fulfillment of His promise that says, "I will come soon to take you all back home." Thanks again. May God continue to guide us all as we study this lesson.
I like to say, "No it isn't fair. Sin isn't fair. But then Calvary isn't fair, either. We didn't deserve what Christ did there for us"
When I lost my only son( I'm a single mom) I experienced the most intimate conversation with the Holey Spirit. God is protecting multiple universes from SATANs' influence...we just happen to be ground zero. I truly believe that we will have a closer relationship with the trinity then any of Gods children. " holy holy holy is what the angels sing...but when they get to the part about redemption the angels fold their wings for angels cannot know the joy that our salvation brings."...good song it's in our hymnal
A thought.
Is Satan subject to rules in the Great Controversy?
It is sometimes said that Satan is a "no rules player" -- that he is subject to no limitations or restrictions in his controversy with God.
But briefly recall Jesus telling Pilate that he could have "no power at all" against Him, "unless it had been given [him] from above." (John 19:11).
In the behind-the-scenes narrative found in the Book of Job, it is revealed, I suggest, that the very same principle applies to Satan as well. Satan has "no power at all" against God's children [in general, and in specific terms,] except that it be given him from above.
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Long ago, that fallen angel joined an angelic meeting in heaven, as they presented "themselves before the LORD". An exchange took place between God and His former Covering Cherub, and Satan does not initiate, or push his way into any discussion; he does not venture to interrupt. It is God Himself that initiates the discussion about Job. (I suggest that we should not lose sight of the fact that God loves His enemies, including Satan, just as much as He loves His son, Job. In this regard (and especially in this regard,) God is no respecter of persons.)
At the end of that first discussion, "the LORD said to Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself [i.e. upon his body] put not forth your hand." Satan leaves the meeting, and returns to the domain where he is the self-proclaimed master.
He waits a while (foreseeing a good opportunity laying ahead,) and then Satan begins his systematic work of discouragement and persecution against Job. But all the while he is subject to that limitation or 'restriction' which God had placed upon him. He was obedient to the command that made Job's body 'out-of-bounds' or off-limits. A "thus far and no farther" had been pronounced, and Satan was STRICTLY OBEDIENT to it. (All the devils are subject to the word of Christ!)
All God's ways are justice (Deut 32:4), and it was in justice that the restriction was given. It was in strict justice also, that the restriction was later lifted, making Job's body accessible to the foe.
So what had changed? Job had changed. I suggest that he had been shaken by the disasters, and his faith wavered. This, in pure justice, meant that God could no longer protect Job in that area, and power was necessarily given to Satan to reach his body. I'm not saying that Job sinned, or that he charged God foolishly, but I do believe that Job went "from faith to faith" -- not from one degree of faith to some higher degree, but rather, his faith moved in the opposite direction.
I just finished studying my lesson this morning and I have a big challenge accepting that the meeting in Job 1 was held in heaven.
In my opinion, it is safer to say "we don't know the venue of the meeting" for the following reasons:
1. Rev 12 recorded how Satan was expelled from heaven.
2. The meeting of God and mankind before sin was done in the garden of eden (Gen 3). i.e. even if Satan were to represent mankind, heaven wouldn't have been the place.
3. Sin - affected being (Satan) cannot be traced to heaven.
Please I need more clarification to enable me answer whoever asks me as I get ready to teach the lesson this weekend.
Thanks.
Stephen, when it comes time to teach the lesson in class, if some of your members have the NIV or NLT Bible versions, it may be advantageous for you to note that those versions (and some other paraphrased versions,) effectively places the meetings (of Job 1:6 & 2:1) in heaven.
The NIV reads, "One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them." (Job 1:6 NIV.)
The NLT reads, "One day the members of the heavenly court came to present themselves before the LORD, and the Accuser, Satan, came with them." (Job 1:6 NLT.)
It is technically much more correct to read "the sons of God" instead of "the angels" or "members of the heavenly court". And Stephen I do accept that the correct term, "sons of God", can be applied either to human beings or to God's angels.
Stephen I just re- read Revelation 12 and much of 13-22. It was some help in re- reading the account of Job, 1:8-12. This is what I call the big picture that also includes Gen 3. There are some very sobering chapters in all three books. I am not sure what your question is exactly, but we can all be very sure that the adversary, that old serpent Satan the Devil, Rev. 12:9, is determined to take as many with him as he can to eternal destruction and death. If you are questioning Satan's presence in Eden, Gen. 3 is talking to a serpent again. Ezekiel 28:13-15 and Isiah 14:12-15 refers to Satan in Heaven in both instances. If "the sons of God" is a stumbling block, we would like to know, how did Satan get from earth back to Heaven and did he have the freedom to come and go as he pleased? Also, sons is not capitalized, indicating something of a reverent nature. We would have to assume the meeting in heaven was by the request of God.
I don't believe that all what is happening to us is the same to as job.It's true that satan maybe behind all evil things that's taking place on planet earth,( crimes,sickness,pains,etc)
but i don't think that it is always a bet.
Yes Jno-Rose, I agree with you. I don't like to think of the Job story as a bet with God and Satan. It is my "opinion", not a fact, that God was just pointing out to Satan that "have you consider my servant Job", or saying I do have one servant named Job that is righteous. It was Satan that followed up with "Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face." It is Satan that is challenging God. So God said, paraphrasing "Ok, try him; do what you want to him, but don't hurt his body." Later on Satan challenges God again, and say if you allow him to hurt Job body, then I bet you that he will curse you. So again, God says "ok, do it, and you'll see that Job is a righteous man." This bet has/is occurring in each and every one of our lives, not because God is testing us, but because of the Great Controversy, Satan is trying to make us curse God, as he did with Job. Remember Peter said in 1 Peter 5:8, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour." This Great Controversy has always been about the war between Christ and Satan over the souls of the redeemed, God's people. When we think of it in the light of the Great Controversy, it is no longer considered a bet.
This subject, the Great Controversy, is so intriguing. This is my fourth post today; I usually only post once a week, or sometimes not at all. I love this subject!! Also, I thank God daily for the Hedge that He has put around me and my family!!
Good morning . I fully understand how my brother feels about the human race seeing ly being the colatorial damage in the war between Christ and Satan. I have felt the same way myself in the past . It is certain that they are many things we do not understand such as the true nature of sin and us becoming sinful flesh when our forefather Adam sold out. So God did not start it. First it was Satan in heaven and Adam on earth . But praise the Lord God has done and continue to do all he can to stop it and rescue unto eternal salvation in the process . He gave all He had for our ramson. The death of his precious son Jesus . So yes we might not understand it all now. The war unfolds before a vast universe. But in the sweet by and by. Hang in there brethren . The best is yet to come .
It is unfortunate that we are players of earths last events.Everyone is a peace of the puzzle.Jeremia 21:11 Every misfurtune are there to shape our character.Job lost everthing but he believed his redeemer live.
Don't really understand how The Great Controversy theme answers the question of "How Satan can talk to God like that?" Can someone break it down for me please?
Hi Liz,
I think that the Great Controversy theme does have something to do with "how Satan speaks to God". If you are referring to his daring attitude and sarcasm then it has alot to do with it. Let's remember firstly that Satan has an issue with who God is: he naturally is disrespectful to the head of the universe because Satan himself presents himself as a "bigger boss" (which he is not). (Let's use an example of a boss and his subordinates. The moment you have an issue with your boss you begn to speak to reject his views and make comments that are always contrary to what he thinks **worldly example**). Same with Satan. Also, let's not forget that this Satan is a deceiver. This "title" (deceiver), is somewhat fitting with the way he talks to God. He uses sarcasm well because of this. Nonetheless, it does not mean he has any authority to overthrow or intimidate God because of the way he speaks. And that is the greatest thing about this cosmic battle. Do hope you find some light in my response.
Yes, your response has shed some light, I understand now, thank you! 😀
I disagree with those who said that the Great Controversy is a "bet" between God and Satan. Or we as humans are collateral damage". The ENTIRE UVIVERSE is watching how this struggle between good and evil by the way if you didn't know, caused God (Jesus) to die to prove that He is Just, Faithful, Merciful, and Righteous Altogether. But most of all Paient to allow Satan to run out his rule and course over the earth.
I don't begin to know the mind of God. But just as God was watching Job, Satan was watching him as well. If not when God asked him what about His servant Job he didn't ask "who dis" he went on to say do you think Job serves You for nothing...Job 1:6-12.
As many attributes as God bestowed upon job He never calls him good. For God knows that only He, God is good. Mark 10:18. God must have known that there was something lacking in the relationship between He and Job that He needed to reveal to Job so He, God , could fix it. So as it is with us today. Our characters are the only thing that we'll be leaving here with. Therefore in order for God to prefect our characters the Holy Spirit's daily work is to reveal what we are lacking and allow God to fix it so we can see Him in Peace.
Well as you can see I take offense to the terms used to describe the Great Controversy or Job's experience as a "bet" or "collateral damage". God gave so much and is still giving to have us spend eternity with Him. Therefore if you understood the Great Controversy you would have no problem explaining it to your class.
Thank you for the comment. But I don't think anyone should be offended if someone says something that we don't agree with, especially about our loving Father. I firmly believe God himself will not "take offense" because He knows the limitation of my puny little mind, and He will continue to guide me with His love. But I am sorry to have offended you, brother, or sister?
I stand corrected! I apologize I just got caught up in the moment!
The betting metaphor does make sense when you understand that Satan is challenging God and hoping to win. Do you think Satan was just having a little bit of a word play? Satan was seriously into winning in the case of Job - as he is in our case too. It is a "winner take all" situation! I find the metaphor most appropriate. The problem is: Satan does not play on a level table - that is the problem with evil. And it is only when we let Christ play for us that we can win.
Satan was invited to the party, if metaphorical. He must have had a devious nature as well as boldness. From his stand point the question what have I got to lose seems logical. As devious as he is, it is a matter of how can I outwit God? What kind of revenge can be inflicted? His presence had to be a given. When the odds are astronomical, winning is not something you should bet your life on.
Really, it is to hard to understand, this situation, because we are accostumed to think that if obey God, nothing bad will occur with us. I was worried about this statement: God talks about Job with (to use a human idea) a sense of pride, like a father proud of his son. If we exchange the name of Job for ours, will God be pride of us too? I think that God had two goals to allow Sathan does all this things.
First - to improve Job's faith
Second - to prove to all universe that Job was loyal to Him although the circunstances.
I agree with you Marcia. God wanted to prove to Satan that Job faithful to me, just as God had to tell Elijah in 1 Kings 19:18, "Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal...". In every age or time, God always has His faithful people that have not bowed down to Satan. I just pray that I will continue to repent of my sins, so that I will be in the number among God's faithful people, or God's remnant people. Stay blessed everyone!!
Marcia I would question Jobs Faith. The first test was with his wife's advice. Job 2;9. The rest of his companions had much the same advice, but Job never agreed with any of them. As we will find later, Job had some things to learn but trust in Gods mercy was not one of them.
I asked the question about Satan going to heaven and was told that before the resurrection of Jesus he had access to heaven but that had since ceased
Satan is restricted to the earth now and his end is drawing near
Praise God
please bro kindly avail the supporting verses.. or qotations. this issue of saran accessing heaven is thorny... we need to establish when he stopped accessing heaven
Hello john, this quote from Revelation chapter 12, applying to Jesus' crucifixion, and to one of the immediate consequences for Satan, is in the thought from Desire of Ages, which might be helpful.
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""And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.” Revelation 12:10.
Satan saw that his disguise was torn away. His administration was laid open before the unfallen angels and before the heavenly universe. He had revealed himself as a murderer. By shedding the blood of the Son of God, he had uprooted himself from the sympathies of the heavenly beings. Henceforth his work was restricted. Whatever attitude he might assume, he could no longer await the angels as they came from the heavenly courts, and before them accuse Christ's brethren of being clothed with the garments of blackness and the defilement of sin. The last link of sympathy between Satan and the heavenly world was broken."
John, I suggest here too, that satan's final exclusion from heaven came at the end of a step by step, graduated, process.
Doug Batchelor has presented this lesson in a Spirit led way, which might
answer some of the questions. Dr Hart has also given in his lesson many of the answers to the above questions. Go to Dr. Hart (Theox) on the internet for a good discussion of JOB!
Hello Jim, I've been looking on the Theox web-site for material relating to the question about the general location of the meetings mentioned in Job 1:6 & 2:1.
On that point I can't find any actual discussion. The material there seems to assume that the language of texts is clear enough to negate any further proof that those meetings took place in heaven. I quote a few statements from the Theox website :
"How often do you think the council of heaven, including the sons of God, came/comes from other parts of the universe to meet with God and take time to discuss single individuals here on this earth?...? Does Satan still attend the councils in heaven? ... So, why does God call councils of the sons of God in heaven? And why would He allow Satan to attend? The sons of God are leaders of the other worlds throughout the universe. (DA 834.1; ST, February 5, 1894, par. 8) When Adam who was supposed to be the leader of our world ate the fruit and surrendered his leadership to Satan, Satan claimed his place among the heavenly council as the leader of this earth. ... Does God need a council in heaven to advise Him?"
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Stewart, do you see any significance to the fact that the Biblical account in Job does not use capital letters for the words "Sons" but does for God and Satan? I see no other references that address sons specifically in connection with these sons. I do not believe it is a generic term.
I believe that it is because we live in a world contaminated by sin that we see and experience the results of sin. Thus we learn to abhor it, and we must learn to abhor it in order to be safe to save. Sin will not arise a second time. Praise God.
Toni Keith re: your 11:56 am post this morning. The Great Controversy didn't begin on this earth with Adam and Eve's sin, it began in heaven when Lucifer turned on God. After the war in heaven, Lucifer and his followers were kicked out of heaven, came to this earth & Lucifer's conflict with God continued as he purposed to tempt Adam and Eve to choose him over God.
After studying this passage, it is my belief that this scene did not take place in heaven as Satan has no more access to heaven where he was originally ejected and banned. This occurred in a spiritual realm where the devil, a spirit speaking to God, a spirit, and looking down on Job who was in the physical realm.
The devil confirmed this when in verse 7, the Lord asked him where he was coming from and his answer was that he the devil has been going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it...
When God said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job..." (Job 1:8), the Lord was effectively drawing attention to him.
To me it sounds like God may be doing the same kind of thing in the future -- effectively drawing attention to a group of people -- when He says, "Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus". (Rev 14:12).
(It seems that the verse could be translated, "THERE THEY ARE that keep the commandments...", because the Greek word translated "here" (in Rev 14:12,) can be rendered "there" (as in Matt 24:23 KJV). But either way, attention is being drawn to that group of people.)
I find it quite striking that both the main elements in Rev 14:12 (i.e. the "patience of the saints", and "Here they are..") have, in my opinion, strong links to Job. Of course the "patience of the saints" has its parallel in Job. Because James writes, "Ye have heard of the patience of Job" (Jas 5:11 KJV). And both verses are using the same Greek word (Strongs #5281).
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I expect that the Devil will throw everything he can at the 144,000 but he will not be able to touch their bodies. Oh yes, they may suffer hunger, thirst, and discomfort, but will the foe reach their bodies directly? No, I don't believe that he will be able to do that. (1Pet 3:13)
As I have said in an earlier post. Revelation 12 and succeeding chapters including 22 are there to reveal the outcome of the struggle between Christ and Satan and our involvement in this struggle. The day of resurrection morning for the dead in Christ 1 Thessalonians 4:`14-18, and 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 are the focus that is most meaningful to the ultimate choices we make.
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
The protection promised is not always physical. Job and Joseph suffered greatly. Nearly all disciples martyred.
The guarantee is spiritual protection. Against hopelessness. Against abandonment. The Victory of Jesus is given to us. Satan can never take our Blessed Hope!
“And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.” 2 Kings 6:16