Monday: Skin for Skin – The Battle Continues
Job 2:1-3 begins almost repeating some of Job 1:6-8. The big change is the last part of Job 2:3, where the Lord Himself talks about how faithful Job remained despite the calamities that befell him. Thus, by the time we get to Job 2:3, it looks as if Satan’s accusations have been shown as false. Job stayed faithful to God and didn’t curse Him, as Satan said he would.
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Read Job 2:1-13. What happens in these texts? Also, what is the significance of the fact that in both Job Chapters 1 and 2 these “sons of God” are there to witness the dialogue between God and Satan?
The phrase “skin for skin” is an idiomatic expression that has baffled commentators. The idea, though, is this: let something happen to Job’s own person, and that will cause him to show where his loyalty really is. Ruin Job’s body, his health, and see what happens.
And interestingly enough, what happens does not happen in a vacuum either. Both instances of the controversy in heaven, as revealed here in the book of Job, take place in the context of some sort of meeting between these heavenly intelligences and God. Satan is making his accusations “publicly”; that is, he is doing it before these other beings. This idea fits in perfectly with what we know about the great controversy. It is something that is unfolding before the whole universe. (See 1 Cor. 4:9, Dan. 7:10, Rev. 12:7-9.)
“But the plan of redemption had a yet broader and deeper purpose than the salvation of man. It was not for this alone that Christ came to the earth; it was not merely that the inhabitants of this little world might regard the law of God as it should be regarded; but it was to vindicate the character of God before the universe. . . . The act of Christ in dying for the salvation of man would not only make heaven accessible to men, but before all the universe it would justify God and His Son in their dealing with the rebellion of Satan. It would establish the perpetuity of the law of God and would reveal the nature and the results of sin.” – Ellen G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 68, 69.
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Kenneth Donkor :Ghana .
So , God is enduring all these to letting the universe realize His true nature ( love) and patience ...? My God is truly longsuffering !
Job chapter 1 and 2 confirms to us that God knows all the afflictions we get in this world and allows them because He knows better what is right for us in the long run.Job came out of those afflictions better than he was before.Believe you me ,God will make His church pass through the afflictions of the last days to purify it in order to be ready to meet Him at His appearing.Inspiration confirms this.
You are correct Daniel, I have noticed that after I had come through a really bad time in my life that I saw God/Jesus in a different light, my Bible study was not done because I felt an obligation to do it because of how I was brought up, but because I wanted to spend more time with my God, and learn more about him. I also noticed that I was more mature in how I dealt with people and situations that I went through. Affliction is hard, but it does work to better you. I don't want to be tested like Job though.
God knows what is good for each one of us.We cannot choose the narrow path,God chooses for us.IF He makes you pass tests like Job,He will also give you His sufficient grace.God is so good.
Satan sees us as failures but our God sees us as victorious people so let us not disappoint our God.let us be like Job who never disappointed.
The book of Job give us warnings and tell us to bridle our tongues when we try to comfort a friend in affliction. The purpose of their (Jobs friends) visit is to comfort him, which is actually noble. But after 7 days of silence and seeing Job's suffering they must have been led to thinking that Job's sin led to his punishment.
"11 Now when Job’s three friends heard of all this adversity that had come upon him, each one came from his own place—Eliphaz the nTemanite, Bildad the oShuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite. For they had made an appointment together to come pand mourn with him, and to comfort him. 12 And when they raised their eyes from afar, and did not recognize him, they lifted their voices and wept; and each one tore his robe and sprinkled dust on his head toward heaven. 13 So they sat down with him on the ground rseven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his grief was very great."
We must be careful in what we say, we must ask God for the right words in due season. In the end, Job the man who walk upright in God's eyes prayed for his friends, God love him more and gave back his health, double his wealth and gave him beautiful children and family.
In my view the Devil's words "skin for skin" implied that all the misfortunes that Job had faced thus far, had really been external/superficial ones, and Job's faithfulness had corresponded to this. Job's faithfulness and loyalty were [in like manner] superficial and external too - it was only 'skin deep' - just a veneer.
I suggest that this was the substance of Satan's charge, "skin for skin".
Stewart,There are some explanations as possible meanings of that verse, Skin for Skin in Job 2:4. One of the shortest is, "Satan has sealed the deal". An understanding that the Lord and Satan agree to the terms. I had compared it to the cliché that says, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, or all is fair in love and war.
Skin for skin simple means that Satan really wanted God to make something happen to Job's body to see where is loyalty really lies.
The shallowest perception of God, is that if you are right with him you would be greatly prospering in this worlds quality of life.
I liked Stewart's explanation above of 'skin for skin'. I wonder if it does seem though, that this was a saying possibly used by ancient Jews or the writers of the book of Job, that through history went out of fashion. But we know there is a lot of symbolism used in the bible writings - is why we each need to study for ourselves and share what conclusions we come to.
I also like what Paul said above too, but I lean more toward Stuart that '"skin deep" as a veneer, was the substance of Satan's charge' of Job's loyalty to God, was not true. It seems to fit Satan's contemptuous manner toward God and human beings.
Godbless today. Mrs A Stolz.
Thank you for your comment Mrs Stolz, and yes, I could readily accept the thought that "skin for skin" may have been an old saying/proverb.
If the essence of the saying is as I have suggested (i.e. that it related to a charge of "skin deep" superficiality,) then that says something more about Job too. If the loss of his assets, and even the loss of his children, had really been external, and had not truly 'gotten to him', then Satan is suggesting that Job's heart was not really upon his flocks and herds [and children?]. But touch Job himself, and make him wish he were dead (because of physical suffering), then things would change, and everyone would see his true colors. I think there are some quite subtle inferences in the Devil's words.
There usually are differences of opinion. The answer that Satan continued, seemed to be an agreement and as to what the intentions were. All that a man has he will give his life for. There is a similar statement in the previous book of the Bible, Esther. Not the statement that I was looking for, but where Esther says If I perish, I perish, is similar to what Satan said to the Lord. That is the ultimate test. Due to it's uniqueness, speculation will undoubtedly be available.
The concept that there is Created Beings in the Created Universe who are the audience for the events of the Great Controversy on Earth is a very, very unique theology of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. And by believing this theology, one can gain greater understanding about the individual purpose here on this Earth and how much each one of us who are saved and will be citizens of the New Earth have yet to experience.
Mark, when I am searching for Biblical information I first go to 2Timothy 3:16. Sola Scriptura, recognized in most Protestant orthodoxy. Exceptions being Methodist and Lutheran I believe. I also use commentaries for general opinion and unbiased reflection. Strong's concordance is frequently used,and very useful. The Plan of Salvation is the main goal, and is of prime importance to each of us.
This discussion gets better and better. Thank you Stuart and Paul for your replies and further explanation. And thank you too Mark for pointing out the uniqueness of the Seventh Day Adventist Church's theology. I had not realised that, or able to put The Great Controversy into daily perspective in my life. Nonetheless I am VERY aware of the subtly and deceitfulness of Satan.
Godbless today. Mrs A Stolz
Skin to skin in my understanding is a kind of test Satan applied to give to Job. In the test we could see Job lost all his valuable properties including children. As at the time his three friends came to visit him, we could see only the skin of Job was covering his body. We could even see that the skin too was still inflicted.
Skin to skin to me it means losing everything in life and still suffering from some kind of contagious diseases that will make people prefer the person to die
I am in agreement with Stewart's explanation above. Satan is relentless - you resist him once, be sure he will come back with more temptations. Quite clearly, the devil had lost the first round of this war of temptation he had waged against God and man. He was not prepared to throw in the towel. The proverbial expression he used, "skin for skin" was cunningly employed to imply that Job only stood firm not because of his sincere love for God or because he was a pious man but rather because of self-love and self-preservation. The idea touted here was that if Job were to be subjected to severe bodily affliction,he'd give up all his religion. The devil was probably saying, "when it comes to a threat to life, human nature always chooses to preserve his/her own person." He was still pushing his tired argument that Job only served God because of the "hedge" that the Lord had built around him. Of course we all know that satan lost the fight again.