HomeDailySunday: The Beast From the Sea    

Comments

Sunday: The Beast From the Sea — 19 Comments

  1. We had an interesting discussion in Sabbath School Class yesterday on the 1260days/42 months/3 1/2 years time period. One of my colleagues made the observation that this time period was familiar to those who would have read these prophecies in John's time. He pointed out that exodus took approximately 42 years and that Christ's ministry was 42 months. Both periods of time associated with the idea of God being with his people in a special way. There was a lot more to the discussion, and having poor hearing, I missed some of the detail. I have emailed my colleague and asked if he could fill me in, but obviously, he has been asleep most of the time since I sent the email to him.

    I like the idea though, particularly as it draws attention to God's role of being with his people during the period of suffering, rather than focusing on the starting and finishing dates. I think it is probably worth keeping this idea in mind as we study these prophecies.

    Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: Ex 6:6

    (45)
    • I think your class share excellent observations. Thanks for sharing them with us. It brings out the fact that there is a broader meaning to the beasts than typical SDA application without negating what we understand the symbols mean.

      (5)
  2. Further to my comment above, my colleague has written to me noting that the time that Elijah was sustained in the wilderness was also 3 1/2 years. There were also 42 stations or sojourns in Israel's journey. One possible interpretation is that the entire period from the Pentecost until the "end time" is covered by these prophecies and that the parallels with Exodus, Elijah, and Christ's ministry indicate that God is able to sustain Christians through this period.

    I am not suggesting a numerological interpretation of Revelation, but at least the reference is there to draw attention to God's saving grace. Perhaps this is an incentive to some more study in the area.

    (26)
    • Maurice

      Your 2 comments above are spot on in terms of helping us appreciate the mindset of the original audience that Revelation was written to. The numbers contained in prophecy were written to an audience for whom numbers meant the nature and character of something, not it's precise quantity.

      Therefore, it is the identifying of (a) the underpinning common theme/s of all the references to a particular number, in this instance 42 'units of time' and (b) the nature and character of the dynamics within those themes that will put us 'on-track' to gaining what was intended by prophetic portions of scripture.

      (14)
  3. I've been trying to share these studies with a few friends. Friends that kind of keep religious traditions in family, that might not understand too well these corelations that we follow in prophecies. I ask knowledge from God to let me be more disconnected from the "religious labels" and more connected to the Bible! Afterall, the Truth is there for everyone. May God help us all to share His love, eventhough we have to discuss about such a violence and anger that sin can bring to a creature's heart!

    (5)
  4. The time given in this 13th chapter of the Revelation is tied directly to this power represented by the beast. The coincidence of this number and other times of Bible history may have some meaning, but have no real comparison here. The purpose of the Revelation is God showing His servants "things which must shortly come to pass", or future events from those time periods represented, though at this time, this specific time is history(what does this fact tell us?!). Daniel also gives this specific time to this specific power that would crush the people of God for many years, but notice that the time is finite, while the kingdom at last will be given to the saints without a finite time period.

    Our sojourn in this life has a date of expiration(known only to God), but the inheritance of "all them which are sanctified" is days without number. It will never end.

    The beast here presented has been well-documented and there is no question of it's identity. Yet many remain ignorant of how deep rooted it's doctrines are and how widely accepted, even among some who consider themselves the "remnant" of God's people.

    As Jesus urged: "let no man deceive you...Watch!"

    (15)
  5. It will help us understand Rev 13 if we remember that when a new entity appears on the stage then John first describes it visually, then describes it's character and actions in the past to help identify the entity. verses 1-7 are all background and we can tell from the change in the tense that only verse 8 is future at a time after its resurrection. It is not active like it was in the past because it is the next beast that is active. Chapter 17 will tell us more.

    (4)
  6. Without taking away what we have as SDAs in identification of the two beasts, but to read Rev 12 and 13 without SDA applications, and let the narrative flow as it is written is a worthy exercise to take. One thing I think we find in such an exercise is the global nature of Satan's efforts to destroy God's people in the final days of earth's history. The sea and earth denote complete usage of the world to align against God's people. Too, we find in the clash of worship two competing signatures of who is worthy of worship. God is for He created, but the False Prophet has breathed into the image (God made man in His image, and breathed in the breath of life) and it comes to life. The opposite power is claiming the right to worship because of their creation of their system. Set before the reader, too, is the character of what produces worship. In this case, the focus on the force and coercion, absent any love and desire.

    (3)
  7. "The dragon (the pagan Roman Empire empowered by Satan) gave the beast his power, his throne, and great authority. Just as the Father has given His throne and authority to Christ (Rev. 2:27), so Satan invests the beast as his coregent and representative on earth." It seems the devil has a counterfeit for everything that God does. As Christians we need to be very careful as a simple mistake can lead us into believing his lies. Nothing is to be taken lightly as his counterfeits are designed both for experienced and new Christians. We are not safe even for a moment on our own. There is need to seek a deep understanding of the Bible in order to understand what is happening today and recognize the devil's deceptions.

    (3)
    • I remember when I first joined the SDA Church, they boldly and unapologetically proclaimed the first beast of Rev 13 was the Roman Catholic Church! Now, it seems that the SDA Leadership has become listless and wishy-washy; they are afraid to speak the truth because someone might be offended! Wait til they stand in front of the Savior and have to explain why they were so afraid to speak the truth!

      (1)
      • I can remember some of that preaching John and I have to say that if I was a Catholic Christian I would have probably dismissed the message as sectarian. Sometimes we put condemnation in front of compassion. There is a way of using what we believe about the Papacy and apostate Protestantism but it needs to be done compassionately and with understanding. Too much of our preaching has concentrated on proving they are wrong when we should be showing them a better way. Nowadays, the media is trumpeting the corruption and hypocrisy of the church and many Christians feel badly let down. We should not say, "We told you so!" Rather, the very real need today is to show these Christians the love and compassion of Christ in a practical way.

        (2)
        • Hi Maurice, and thank you for your reply. If we look at the experience of Jesus when he cleanses the temple, he didn\'t use a lot of compassion for the leaders of the church in his day. We\'re not talking about the laity here oh, we\'re talking about the leaders of the church in his day. Jesus unequivocally and boldly when in an overturned the tables of the money-changers and the people who sold the doves in the other creatures in the temple. And, let\'s take a look at Moses. When he came down the mountain with the tablets the first tablets of the Ten Commandments he did not have passion on those who set the golden calf in fact if memory serves, about 1,500 people the false leaders of that wandering throng we\'re slaying that day. We need to stop this wishy-washy mamby pamby afraid of our own Shadows preaching and go back to preaching the unvarnished truth. I invite you to re-read the great controversy and you will see that Ellen White had no trouble fingering the Catholic Church or the United States of America

          (1)
          • I understand what you are saying here, John. But there are two things that we should consider. Jesus and Moses were both talking to people in "their own church". That is very different from condemning others in the free and diverse society we have today. In Ellen White's time, the situation was also very different from the present day. You only need to read some of the non-Adventist publications about the papacy in Australia in the late 1800s to realize that Adventist condemnation was pretty mild in comparison. Catholicism was perceived as a threat to democracy.

            Times have changed and we probably need to moderate our language and our techniques to suit the times. I have several Roman Catholic friends and I know that If I was to engage in some of the language used in the late 1800s, I would lose their friendship and any chance I have of sharing the Gospel with them. I am trying to exercise the patience of the saints rather than the wrath of condemnation.

            It must also be recognized that in the current climate, anti-Catholic feeling is running very high in the media. Even within Catholic congregations, they are bewildered and embarrassed by the public exposure of their dirty laundry. Congregations are diminishing at a very rapid rate. and many are giving up on Christianity altogether. In the current climate compassion and understanding will go a long way further than condemnation.

            (1)
            • Totally agree Maurice, I'll never forget, when I was about 9/10 my friends and I were watching a school football match, and the Away team were from a Catholic School and we were Church of England school. I remember loosely a conversation with my friends along the lines of me saying "No they can't win" my friend says "why?" Me, "they're Catholic aren't they?", and my friend replied "I'm Catholic" I must have said something like "oh I like you though" and that really stumped me, and shook my understandings and knowledge as a kid, figuring out why wasn't I meant to like Catholics, what I had just heard and regurgitated from church/parents, and I thought what an awful thing to say. I eventually learned that there wasn't an issue with my fellow Catholic friends and peers, and continued on to have nice times with these friends while keeping my own faith. Now I'm an adult and it's still really stuck with me, we can be against principalities etc (Eph 6:12) but we shouldn't condemn our fellow peers for the sake of condemnation, but to come in love and yearn for their salvation and we should be wisely aware of our actions and words carry to the younger generations and non-christians.

              (1)
          • Yet, it's HOW we preach truth. Jesus was always seeking to win the trust and hearts of sinners, not condemning. Pointing out in an urgent but considerate way that someone's house is on fire, while offering help, will do much. Yes, no place for being PC, but compassionate appeals will raise a needed alarm to all who will respond honestly to it.

            Being filled with the Holy Spirit will ensure the appropriate manner at the appropriate time. Jesus was never inappropriate, though some might have thought He was.

            (0)
  8. “... And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.” (Rev 12:4)
    Was it Rome anticipating this birth ready to devour? In the type Pharaoh posted midwives ready to “devour” newborn males at the birth of the nation of Israel in Egypt. Rome, on the the other hand, discovered the birth of the King years after His birth. Both endeavors failed. The dragon is Satan. Rome and Israel must be either horns or heads of Satan, the dragon. Jesus described Israel/Jerusalem as having committed the greater sin, compared with Rome.
    The beast from the sea is identical to the dragon, Satan, except diadems on horns instead of heads, and a “healed” wound on one head. Where or when, from the Word, was this beast wounded? - In the war in which he was cast down to earth (Rev 12:7-12). To me this is still Satan returning in/with different political status to go after the “rest/remainder” of the woman’s seed (Rev 12:17). Rome, Israel still prominent as horns/heads; the woman, the true believers, the church, the elect (Mk 3:35; Lk 8:21).

    (1)
    • The dragon is not "Rome", but includes Rome. Rev 17 is an important key to understanding this, along with Daniel 2, 7 and 8. Rome is the next to last of the heads(per Rev 17 and Dan 2).

      The deadly wound took place when the 10 kingdoms/divisions of Rome existed(crowns on horns), so that would mean the end of the 1260 years wouldn't it? History proves this to be 1798 AD.

      What we see from Rev 12 and 13 is that Satan is behind the earthly powers that war against God through His people, beginning with Egypt, and ending with the king of the north, a 3-fold union, which is just before us.

      (1)
    • Hello Kenny:

      I will try to give explanation to your points about the dragon being Satan, not Rome, etc. When reading Revelation the symbols have to be taken in their context, and when identified, either directly, or through past biblical knowledge being brought to bear upon the text. Revelation is a book saturated in Old Testament imagry and themes tied up in a New Testament bow of sorts.

      Chapter 12 begins an entirely different narrative that dominates until the end of the book. It is extra material added to what has already come in the first eleven chapters. Chapter 12 also has four segments of history contained in it. There is the history of Israel and Satan's initial assault on God's kingdom in which he was successful in getting a third of the angels (third of the stars of heaven) to go with him. The stars were cast to earth, and for a time Satan still had access to heavenly courts (note the first two chapters of Job). This first segment of history would also include the Garden story as the dragon is also called that Old Serpent. The woman and the serpent reminds us about the previous encounter between the serpent and the woman in the Garden of Eden, the Fall, and the history of God's people (the woman) all the way down to the time of Christ's birth.

      Christ's birth starts the second segment of history. It goes from His birth on through to His ascension to heaven and being on the throne with His Father (Rev. 4 & 5 bring this out). This fulfills the promise in Gen 3 about the serpent bruising the heal of Christ and Christ crushing the Serpent's head.

      The third section of history comes as the war that began in heaven long ago was completed at the cross and Satan was cast to the earth never to return to heavenly courts. This begins the dragons assault on the woman in the time period alternately stated as 1260 days, time, times and a half of time, and 42 months. All the same time period. This time period is first found in Daniel 7, an indispensable chapter in understanding Revelation 12, by the way.

      This 1260 days is actually 1260 years and covered what we know to day as the Dark Ages. The devil, working through nations opposed to Christ is represented, in the dragon. So, Rome would be one of those nations as it was the Roman power that allowed the Jewish spiritual leaders to condemn Christ to the cross. The political Roman power transitions to a religio-political persecuting power during the Dark Ages.

      Then there is the fourth time segment and that is the time of the remnant of the woman's seed. That segment, many term the time of the end, is further elaborated on in chapter 13 where Satan calls up partners to team up against the remnant and seek to destroy them. Whereas force was the primary means to overcome the woman in chapter 12, deception is introduced as the primary method to overcome the remnant in chp 13.

      The sea beast is actually a counterfeit of Christ's ministry. The dragon gave the sea beast it power, mimicking Jesus receiving His authority from the Father. The existence of the beast is 3 1/2 years of prophetic time, whereas Jesus' ministry was 3 1/2 years literal time. The sea beast is the image of the dragon, as Jesus is the express image of the Father. Thus, we are now introduced to not only a counterfeit of Christ, but a counterfeit of the trinity: Dragon (false Father), Sea Beast (false Son) and Land Beast (false Holy Spirit). Counterfeit suggests the idea of deception as well.

      You will note the very close association of the Sea beast with what transpires in Daniel 7 and the character of the Little Horn power. All this history is being brought out and the focus on the end days is found in Rev. 13.

      There is nothing in chapter 12 to suggest this is relating to Pharaoh's attempt at limiting the population growth of Israel before their deliverance. The imagry of Revelation 12 is that of Daniel 7, and the Garden. To be consistent we must find meaning from the latter two, not the story of the Exodus.

      The heads of the dragon and the sea beast, as well as the ten horns, all relate to Daniel 7's four beasts that together have 7 heads. The sea beast's description is made up of parts of those beasts indicating a past history being summed up, as it were, in the existence and history of the sea beast.

      Chapter 12 opens up the great controversy story between Christ and Satan and that controversy being played out on earth between the true trinity and the counterfeit, between God's people and earth dwellers (those without Christ). This controversy story begins in chp 12, into 13, and concluding in 14 with Jesus' return in two reaping scenes.

      To conclude: Rome was not anticipating Christ's coming, Satan was. At the time Satan was working through Rome and every nation or group of people, that oppose God and His Son, which in turn oppose the people of God.

      Hopefully this will be helpful to you. Staying within the context of the chapter and finding those aspects of the OT that are highlighted is how Revelation should be approached in order to gather its meaning.

      (5)
  9. The message of Revelation chapter 13 that talks about the two beasts is the kind of a prophetic message that need to be proclaimed to the whole world, in order for the human kind to know that the time is near when the son of man is going to come and gather his chosen people.

    (0)

Leave a Reply

Please read our Comment Guide Lines and note that we have a full-name policy.

Please make sure you have provided a full name in the "Name" field and a working email address we can use to contact you, if necessary. (Your email address will not be published.)

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>