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Tuesday: Accepting Jesus’ Victory — 21 Comments

  1. I really need some help on this topic today. I don't have a problem as a Christian accepting Christ's victory, and living in the assurance that it brings. My problem is in trying to communicate that idea to others without appearing either arrogant or stupid. Is Christ's victory something that is meaningful only to Christians and is something that has to be "spiritually discerned"?

    How do I make the assurance of Christ's victory relevant to the guy living down the street who is struggling with substance abuse? Or, to the woman who has just called a taxi to pick up her and her children to take her away from an abusive husband? Or, the Ukrainian national, living in Australia who is flying back home to fight in the war? Or, to the family of the woman killed when her car skidded out of control off the M1 and into a tree?

    We live in a world where the battle between evil and good continues to rage and it seems either arrogant, or nonsense to say, "Hey, don't worry, God has fixed this! Christians have got the answer!"

    I am sorry to leave the question hanging like that, but how do we fix this communication problem?

    (49)
    • You raise a very significant and relevant issue Maurice. I offer but 2 points for consideration/discussion by those who are interested.

      1) People won't care what we believe until they first believe (experience) that we genuinely care about them and their experience. Without this, what we say is much more likely to come across as 'trite' and 'platitudes' - therefore arrogant or nonsense. I know, Maurice, this is a point that is close to your heart and therefore one you (rightly) frequently emphasize.

      2) We need to ourselves accurately understand (under the guidance of the Holy
      Spirit) the nature of the "victory" - what it is and equally importantly what it isn't. Jesus well said "in this world you will have trouble - but keep courage (knowing and remembering the big picture is that) I have overcome the world" (John 16:33, my paraphrase). Jesus uttered these on the night of his betrayal, capture, torture and subsequent crucifixion. His disciples would all flee in fear - Peter to the point of betrayal - because Jesus Kingdom looked to outward appearances at that point like it had been defeated. So the "victory" does not mean there won't be severe casualty along the way. What is does mean is that what lies beyond times of casualty is guaranteed. And it also means that we don't have to give in to the ways of the kingdom of darkness even when we suffer all manner of casualty. Those are the two dimensions of victory that are assured. Put another way, it may appear that battles may be lost along the way and casualties may be high, but the ultimate outcome of the war is guaranteed (eg, 2 Timothy 4:6-8).

      For those of you who like word pictures, the following paragraph from Ellen White paints a beautiful yet realistic picture provided you keep all statements in this paragraph in mind at the same time. The last statement does not cancel out the first - but the picture painted illustrates the (both) the reality amid the battle that at the same time ensures the final and ultimate outcome:

      "The conflict will be long and painful. At times there may appear to be a partial defeat; but bear in mind that you counted the cost when Christ showed you the plan of the battle. You are not the leaders in this conflict, for Christ is there; the armies of heaven are enlisted in the warfare. Jesus would have every individual understand that the confederacy of evil is strong, artful in planning, and will use every dishonest measure in order to obtain the victory. Yet not one follower of Christ is to look at his own weakness and become discouraged. “Looking unto Jesus” [Hebrews 12:2] we shall receive His inspiration, we shall know that we are fighting in full view of God, of loyal, holy intelligences, with all the children of light as companions. More than angels are in the ranks in every conflict; at the head is the Great General of armies, who says, “Be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” [John 16:33.] Jesus will surround His faithful ones with a heavenly, holy atmosphere, their armor is invincible, their Leader never met with a defeat, and they are to advance to victory.
      9 LtMs, Lt 103, 1894, para. 14.

      (57)
    • Having in my past been in controlling, manipulative relationships, one of the most important characteristics of God, for me,...maybe THE most important,... is that He offers us choice and freedom, while still faithfully loving us, even if we choose against loving Him back. God's love is 100% pure. There's never an "Aha, so THAT'S why He was being kind to me. That's what He was trying to get from me" moment. Real un-self-centered love is just who God is. And yes, we don't know this about God until by faith we choose to begin receiving Him as our first priority. We see Him in the Bible stories. We see Him in people who call themselves Christian. We start opening to His Spirit.

      For me, that is the answer to why there is still suffering in the world, even though Jesus won the victory at the cross. 2 Peter 3:8-10 ....He's waiting for each one to have the fully allotted time to receive the gospel story and to make a decision. God, in His grace, is patiently allowing the full opportunity for mercy and forgiveness for every human.

      For those struggling with abuse and war and loss, they don't want a knee-jerk, ego-driven, dictator God, but it is also important for them to know that God is mighty to save. He will call an end to evil. "God keeps his lovingkindness for thousands...Yet he will not leave the guilty unpunished..."(Ex. 34:7). "The longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah" (1 Peter 3:20). However, God's patience did not last forever; it ended after 120 years when all had chosen whether to go into the Ark or not. The destroying flood came (2 Peter 2:5).

      Bros. Phil and Wayne offer another vital reminder...that WE are the gospel most people read first, before the Bible, and the sincerity and depth of our own faith in the gospel story plays out in our actions and reactions. This is something I pray about all the time,... that I won't blaspheme God's name and character through my demeanor, that I will glorify Him so that others who are hurting, who don't know Him personally yet themselves, will thirst to drink from the same well of clear, Living Water I am drinking from.

      And beyond me personally, the Body of Christ, the Church, is to show something different than any other group dynamic on this planet. Jesus says, "By THIS will all men know you are MY disciples, that you have love for ONE ANOTHER (other people at church, other Christians)".. (John 13:35). Before reading your post, I was going to respond to the “accuser of our brethren … has been cast down” (Revelation 12:10, NKJV). It fits in perfectly here. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. We are not to accuse our brothers and sisters in Jesus. The world accuses and refuses; Christ, through His Church, loves and receives.

      I understand your desire to share the assurance of Christ's victory, Maurice. I also have many unbelieving friends who so need to be free of their burdens. Let's speak God's Word over them in prayer, that He will complete the good work He has begun in them (Phil. 1:6), perhaps even through us.

      (26)
    • In simple terms, I am becoming the shoulder for someone to cry or lean on. I am now my wife's best friend; I am lending my time to make the helpless!

      (13)
    • If I have all the answers, why would I search for more? If I feel totally complete, why would I need anything else?

      Yes, Jesus (Love) is the solution for all of my troubles, but that doesn't mean that my struggles stop here. I'm finite, not Him. It is said that "we'll spend eternity trying to comprehend God's Love for us".

      Since His Love for me is infinite, even though I could be satisfied today, there will always be some gap within me to be filled, a change, a learning experience, which means I'll have to continue my search.

      Once creature, always creature! And I should be at peace with this fact. Because, maybe, the most important thing is to continue desiring for more of Christ (Love), hoping to be boosted forward.

      (14)
    • Let us go back to Paul and Silas. Why did they sing while in prison?! Why were some of the martyrs very happy and singing to the Lord at the time of their death?! Why they never scared?! Who knows that he is going to die, but never worries, but is singing praises to the Lord?!

      To answer your question, Maurice, it's that victory is having the Holy Spirit, who can give you peace in time of trouble. Victory is having the peace of JESUS! You can not compare the peace JESUS gives with suffering. I have experienced that.

      Victory is having JESUS; you can not compare JESUS with suffering. Surely I am telling you!!! JESUS is so much sweeter than suffering is bitter. If someone has JESUS, suffering will have no meaning in his life, Maurice. So you just give them JESUS. He will do for them (those you mentioned in your post) what is needed at the right time, and they will shout hallelujah in their sufferings.

      (3)
  2. It's not so much a communication problem as a relationship problem. I think the answer to this question is not an event (communication) but a process (relationship building). And it's going to cost you something. As I see it .. the following steps give a basic outline as to what I'm getting at ...

    1. An experience with Christ needs to be gained before it can be shared (this is very important .. we cannot share what we don't have).

    2. To help others (as Christs ambassadors) we first need to show sympathy and compassion. We walk the road of suffering with them to help lighten the burden (a burden shared is a burden halved). People really appreciate this. This is what Christ did.

    3. When the opportunity arises, we share with those who are suffering what Christ has has done for us (see step 1) and offer to intercede (pray) on their behalf that He might do the same for them. They need to give you permission to do this. But again the key is building a relationship and walking the road with them.

    A good illustration of this process is the healed demoniac (Luke 8:26-39). He experienced the healing of Jesus and then Jesus told him to go back to his home town(s) and tell the people what Jesus had done for Him. Remember, people don't care what you know until they know that you care. (John 4 - Woman at the well).
    I hope this is helpful 🙂

    (47)
  3. First, thank-you Phil and Wayne for such thoughtful answers to Maurice’s question. Both are very practical. I agree with both of you, and cherish your thoughts.

    Christ victorious definitely strengthens our confidence in being victorious. I remember, years ago, the author of our lesson this quarter, in seminars on Revelation, opened by saying, "Revelation is all about Christ Victorious." That statement opened up Revelation to me in a new light. Revelation is not just a prophecy book; it is about Christ victorious. Christ being victorious shows us that we can totally rely on Him for our victory -- if you prefer, being overcomers.

    (18)
      • Hi, Evans. This woman would be the church of God, the sincere believers in Jesus, and the wilderness would be her flight from persecution. This has definitely happened, in the past, and it will happen again, according to Bible prophecy. Thankfully, God has promised to take care of us.

        (1)
  4. The cross (JESUS) is what is meaningful for us. Because on the cross (JESUS), we got this life, the coming life, all the solution to the problem of sin (every sin) and its effects (eg sickness) and all the power to take down the power of evil.

    JESUS has that victory already; he want to it to give us; he is looking for someone to receive it. He is saying, Come and take your victory. It is just for us to decide.

    (2)
  5. Revelation 12:1-5, especially verse 5, I find rather troubling from the standpoint where the child is caught up to God and His Throne. What happened here to the part where Jesus is killed and then raised from the dead, and then resurrected and then caught up to God and then to His Throne? Yes, that last part is there but what about the in-between part of the cross and bleeding and death first and before that? Yes, it is in the rest of Scripture, but why is it left out here?

    (3)
    • Hi, Pete. I believe that, if we can get past our modern Western assumption (which simply doesn't work) that everything in the book of Revelation must have been recorded in chronological sequence, then we can see the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ in the expulsion of the dragon and his angels from heaven. By tormenting and murdering the spotless Son of God, Satan and his cohorts had fully forfeited the sympathies of those heavenly beings who had seen it all. From then on, their activities would be limited to working on the human race. In effect, they were cast down to the earth.

      Does this help?

      (3)
      • Thank you R.G. White. However, why should we get past our western and modern idea of "chronology" of the book of Revelation? The Apostle Paul said that he wanted to know nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Paul probably wrote this before John was given the Revelation in the Island of Patmos, I am sure. But for me, the fact that John leaves out "The Cross" further solidifies in my mind that "Plan A" for Jesus was that He be crowned King at His Triumphal Entry before that cross, because the cross was not plan "A" for God, even though plan "A" was for Jesus to bleed for sin after His coronation. That did not happen because He was rejected by the then spiritual leadership of Israel.

        (0)
  6. Beliefs are built on multi layers of understanding. Addressing just one concept of what we believe with others who have a completely different structure of understanding, can totally be misunderstood simply because they don't have any of the same layers of understanding to build upon.

    We (the basic original Adventist belief) believe God created man perfect. We believe there is a devil and antagonist who hates God's law and God's government and will do anything to subvert God's plans. This same devil introduced the human race to sin, insinuating it is advantageous to go against God's commands.

    We (in original basic Adventism) believe it is sin, the sinful human nature, and the workings of evil angels, that has caused all this suffering, disease, chaos, violence, damage etc. etc. that is ravaging the earth, inflicting its woes on all, no matter their own level of contribution to earth's accumulated sin heritage.

    Generally we don't expect God to give us a bed of roses, for in the world we will have trials and tribulation. But for those who put their faith and trust in God, He gives strength to meet the trials, and the blessed hope of eternal life with Him in paradise! God has made full provision to forgive us and cleanse us from our part in the sin problem and fit us for His kingdom.

    But how do we share this message with people who:
    1. are highly influenced by New Age ideas

    2. don't believe there is a devil

    3. believe in evolution which
    a) removes God as having specifically created fully developed humans in His image
    b) removes sin as resulting in all this misery, sickness and death, and makes sin the active means of creation which insists everything evolved on the principle of chance and the survival of the fittest.
    c) we hear them saying, if this loving God we talk about, existed there would not be all this trouble, disease and disaster in the world. The fact there is so much evil is proof God does not exist.

    4. They see the Bible as only a book of how various people in the past perceived religious things, they don't see it as the inspired word of God.

    So how do people with this mindset understand the concept that through Christ we can stand as having never sinned?

    Many don't believe in "sin", at least not in the Christian sense of sin being a state of rebellion against God's law.
    The idea that we need to come to God in repentance is no longer popular.
    Even encouraging someone, by the grace and power of God, to change sinful behavior can be considered intolerant.

    When we talk with some about the New Earth, they'll even agree Christ has this planned for people, but they think of it as the next step in evolution, mankind evolving to the next level!

    Basically the whole spectrum of sin, trouble, forgiveness, cleansing, Someone dying and gaining a victory for people, is all based on understanding the issues in the Great Controversy.
    And to a large decree the understanding of the Great Controversy is no longer popular and stands in direct opposition to the philosophies of evolution and humanism. (As well as ecumenicalism)

    This probably doesn't answer any questions, just trying to show some of what we are up against. Some of the walls that are making it difficult for people to even understand what we are saying.

    (9)
  7. More than ever we need to pray for the Holy Spirit to live His work out in our hearts.
    This sweet childhood song: Little Feet by Author: Mrs. L. M. Beal Bateman is the way I pray to share my faith:

    1 I washed my hands this morning,
    O very clean and white,
    And lent them both to Jesus,
    To work for Him till night.
    Chorus:
    Little feet be careful
    Where you take me to,
    Anything for Jesus,
    Only let me do.
    2 I told my ears to listen
    Quite closely all day thro',
    For any act of kindness
    Such little hands can do. [Chorus]
    3 My eyes are set to watch them
    About their work or play,
    To keep them out of mischief
    For Jesus' sake all day. [Chorus]

    (4)

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