Tuesday: The Earliest of Books
Despite the hype of those who don’t believe in God, those who believe in God have many good reasons for their belief. However, there’s been one perennial problem that many have used through the ages to justify their disbelief, and that is the problem of human suffering and evil.
Image © Lars Justinen from GoodSalt.com
How can God be all-good, all-loving, and all-powerful, and evil exist? This has been and remains a stumbling block to many. And also, if we are honest, what believer in God, what person who has tasted and experienced the reality of God and His love hasn’t struggled at times with that question?
How interesting, then, that Ellen G. White also taught what Jewish tradition teaches: that Moses wrote Job in Midian. “The long years amid desert solitudes were not lost. Not only was Moses gaining a preparation for the great work before him, but during this time, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, he wrote the book of Genesis and also the book of Job, which would be read with the deepest interest by the people of God until the close of time.”—Ellen G. White Comments, The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 3, p. 1140.
What this tells us is that of the first two books of the Bible ever penned, one of them, Job, deals with the universal issue of human pain and suffering. That is, God knew that this would be a big question for humans, and thus, right from the start, in the Word, He had Moses pen the story of Job. God let us know, early on, that we are not left alone in our pain and suffering but that He is there, He knows all about it, and we can have the hope that He will make it right in the end.
What do the following texts teach us about the reality of evil? Matt. 6:34, John 16:33, Dan. 12:1, Matt. 24:7.
However understandable the argument from evil against the existence of God, in light of the Scriptures, it makes no sense. Though the Bible teaches the reality of an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving God, it also teaches the reality of evil, of human suffering, and woe. Evil is not an excuse to disbelieve in God. In fact, a cursory reading of the book of Job shows that even amid his utter despondency, Job never questioned the existence of God. The question instead, and a valid one, is why are these things happening to him?
It’s only natural to have questions about the evil we see. How can we learn to trust in the goodness of God despite that evil?
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How would God reveal His "KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL"(Gen 3:5) to His creation except by the way he did it?
Kenny, I cannot see that God wanted to reveal His knowledge of evil to our first parents. The knowledge of evil, in itself, brought no advantage to them.
Their knowledge of evil came by experience, but it was an experience that they wished they had never had. God planted ONLY "good seed" in His field (universe), and concerning the introduction of evil it must be said that "an enemy has done this." I firmly believe that it has always been God's design that we be "simple concerning evil" (Rom 16:19) - much better to be relative 'simpletons' and unskilled in the ways of evil, than to be knowledgeable about the machinations of the ungodly. Much better to face the light. (1Jn 1:5)
Stewart, If the evil in Genesis 3:15 is understood as being the evil from that tree. What was the "good from that tree? God must have had a reason to give it that name. Was it disclosed someway?
Hi Paul,
my suggestion would be this - For as long as Adam and Eve did not eat from that tree, they testified to the entire universe that they were satisfied [and happy] with their state.
I believe that the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" had often been SEEN by the holy pair (because there is a thought in the book Patriarchs & Prophets, which indicates that that tree "stood NEAR the tree of life in the midst of the garden" (PP 48)), but Adam and Eve had been happy to manifest restraint, self-discipline, and obedience over that one particular tree.
I think they would also have acknowledged the fact that the single prohibition was GOOD for them, and the restraint that was required of them was really such a little thing. (For many years it cost them practically nothing to leave that tree alone.)
Another way of putting it would be like this: The tree tested the faith/trust of God's created children. Continuing obedience testified of their love and trust, ensuring that they would only "know good." But the tree also offered the opportunity to disobey - thus to "know evil."
The tree also provided a forum for Satan. God values freedom in His universe and Satan had accused God that he does not provide freedom to His creatures so Satan was given his freedom at the tree. The Tree was also a protection for Adam and Eve because Satan could only contact them at the tree.
Had it not been for that tree, there would have been no incarnation and no Calvary. We would not have known, in that way, the incredible self-sacrificing love of God for us. It would have been far better if Adam and Eve had never eaten the fruit of that tree, but even when we choose evil, God can bring good.
This goes along also with what Romans 4:8 says to keep our minds focused on: things that are "lovely, pure, honest, etc, and etc,." We need to train our minds, start with our minds, to do what God says to do in His Word; so that our minds are healed first with how we think about the world, ourselves and others one day at a time and with God's help too in Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit. At the end of Romans 4:8 the Apostle Paul assures us that The God of Peace would be with us. And what a better thing to have in this evil world than His presence and His Peace at all times?
Stewart, I think God would have taught or revealed to Adam and Eve His knowledge of good and evil so that they would be capable of moral discernment and not need explicit commands as in the test in the garden. Then they would truly be like God having His knowledge.
Kenny, it is an interesting concept, but I am unable to entertain it. I hold the view that the moral law of God was written in the hearts of Adam and his wife from the very beginning, and that this "exempted them" (for want of a better term) from needing a multitude of explicit commands. They did not need to be told [for example,] that it was wrong to make idols, or that it was wrong to lie to each other, or to kill one another, etc. The one explicit command delivered to them was all that was required.
Stewart, if God had written the Law on their hearts they would not have committed that grave transgression (Ps 37:30,31; Ps 40:8; 119:11; Isa 51:7; Jer 31:33; Ezk 36:26,27).
How would that affect free will and choice, the foundation of our beliefs, if they were created with that bias?
Throughout Scripture there is the call for wisdom, knowledge, and all discernment, especially of good and evil (Phil 1:9,10; Heb 5:14; OT). Wouldn’t God share His knowledge of good and evil with Adam and Eve so that they could effectively rule over His creation?
Kenny, I think first of all, we need to recognize that at that time Lucifer had turned into Satan, a congenital liar. It is Satan who speaks in Gen. 3:5. He mixed truth with error. He spoke truth when he said that they would know evil, as well as good, after eating from the tree. He spoke diabolical error when he said they would be "like God." In fact, by distrusting God, they became very much *less* like God because distrust is a rejection of love and God *is* love.
As Stewart has already pointed out, it was not God's intention that His children should know evil. Through their familiarity with evil, they became *less* like God, not *more* like God.
Inge, God planted the tree, named it “tree of knowledge of good and evil”, and acknowledged that the pair “has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil”. The devil did not lie on this point. God alone “knows good and evil”. He alone will decide what is good or evil. He complimented King Solomon for asking for discernment “between good and evil” in order to judge God’s people (1 Kings 3:9-11). Adam was ordained to rule over God’s creation. I think God would, by revelations, definitely teach him to discern between good and evil as ruler of the natural creation, especially since the evil one was around (Phil 1:9,10; Heb 5:14)
Since Adam was a type, a shadow, of the One coming (Rom 5:14; 1 Cor 15:44-49), would he, Adam, be satisfied with his role and place in the plan and purpose of God? Or would he try to grab *likeness to God* like Satan did. The true Adam didn’t consider likeness to God something that should be grasped. Their “knowledge” of good and evil introduced fear, shame, alienation, and death.
I believe that God did not intend for Adam and Eve ever to "know evil."
Do you really believe that knowing evil genuinely made the pair more "like God"? (While God acknowledged that in the sense of "knowing good and evil" they had become more like God, that said nothing about true likeness to God.)
And now, let's take a look at Phil 2:6 ESV: "who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God
as something to be grasped." At first glance, it sounds like a good parallel between the first Adam and the second Adam - except for one thing: The "second Adam" was the Creator Himself without whom nothing was created (John 1:3), the I AM/ Jehovah/ Jahweh of Israel (John 8:48, John 8:58), and the King of Kings and Lord of Lords (1 Tim 1:16). He Himself was "Mighty God." (Isa 9:6) Thus the word "grasped" here is best understood as "to be held fast, retained," which is one of the meanings of the Greek word harpagmos used here. Otherwise, we make the second Person of the Godhead as just like the created Adam - that is, no God at all.
For Phil 2:6-7, the NIV does a pretty good job, in my opinion: "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness." (Phil 2:6-7 NIV)
Otherwise I agree with you. The test was whether the created pair would trust God enough to be satisfied with their place (faith) or whether they would distrust Him and seek to exalt themselves as Lucifer tried to do. And
The power of the text is that Jesus was God and equal with him. It was not stealing His character like Satan did. He voluntarily let that go to become one with man, and to show us how to relate to this God of all goodness. Not on a lofty perch high above the din of noise, but at the bedside of the dying unclean leprous dog, he came to show a God of compassion.
Kenny, are you saying there is no free will when God's law is written on our hearts?
I'm saying it affects the concept of free will and choice because God says one *will* walk in His ways when He writes the law on the heart.
I am wondering too, Kenny... In your understanding, is there anyone in the world today with the law of God written in their hearts? Or is that 'writing' still a future event?
And must we conclude that once God writes the law in the heart, that the person's free will is effectively removed? From that point onward they *will* be obedient, and it will no longer be possible for them to fall away?
You have to know the nature of something before Placing your trust, and trust leads To faith. Having known that God is all. Knowing, his nature is that he has never failed to deliver to you what ever you ask of him, even though he may not do it the exact way you wanted... He won't allow you to Suffer lack, but he never said there will be no tribulation, but he said we shall. Overcomer and that is how you grow in faith and become strong #it is like an examination take you must pass to move to the next level (class) I pray that God will help us and that the holy spirit will teach us. To have the faith job had. Amen!
The title " The Earliest Books" has noted from different sources, that Job was the 1st book written by Moses and the Pentateuch meaning the first five books, was next. The question that came to mind was, at what point in Moses's life did he write Job and the other Five Books? When the story of Noah and the Flood and the accounts of creation, are considered, along with the records found in the Pentateuch, time lines, sequences, and historical spans of 120 years the age of Moses, makes one wonder who knew what and when?
If Moses knew all of the details of Job and Adam and Eve and Noah etc. could the time on Mount Sinai have had any connection with the books that Moses wrote. Yes all scripture is given by Inspiration, 2Timoty 3:16. However Job would not be the 1st Book written for most people. It would be the Book that precedes Psalms. This makes my original question somewhat thought provoking. Especially the book of Job. What was going on in Moses's life? Was it near the very end? The personal relationship Moses had with God is more exceptional than any other human being that I know. Conjecture and opinion will find a place.
"Moses wrote Job in Midian.". That is, in the 40 years intervening his running from Egypt and his return to rescue his people. God saw Moses understood by the daily relation of writing those oral traditions. Subsequently, God said "I in you are ready to lead my people."
The knowledge of sin meant it was a tree through which eating of its fruits was partaking in the indulgence thereof not to say they did not have an idea that there was evil already. Remember if you Patriachs and prophets: chapter 3 'Temptation and the Fall' PP:52 it says ''Our first parents were not left without a warning of the danger that threatened them. Heavenly messengers opened to them the history of Satan's fall and his plots for their destruction, unfolding more fully the nature of the divine government, which the prince of evil was trying to overthrow.
The book of Job helps us understand that although God is not responsible for evil, He can still control it. If we choose Him we will be protected in our sufferings just like Job when Satan was not permitted to kill him.
When we sinned in Eden God did not withhold the wages of our choice but rather chose to show His love by letting Christ take a bigger share of our suffering. If Christ died for us, how much more should we be prepared to accept evil as a way of appreciating His love?
I agree with you Stewart. God never intended that we should know evil. It was Satan who suggested that God was holding back something from them. "That they should know good and evil." Gen. 3:4-5. God meet with them every evening in the garden. Gen. 3:8. One thing he warned them about was "to be on the look-out for the devil..." Rev. 12:12.
I was reading Genesis 2 and 3 this morning because I had a question about how we are deceived. God did not warn us that the devil should be on the look out because? What God said was there are two trees in the garden. One that is a tree of life and one is a tree of knowledge of good and evil. Do you think that Adam and Eve knew what death was? Perhaps, we can speculate that God explained. Many believe that Gods command not to eat of that tree was sufficient without further explanation. We can also assume that God knew where the serpent would be lurking. This brings me to my original thought of how we are tempted and by whom. We often start by a thought of how inviting it would be to take a sample of something that we know probably isn't what it should be. That sounds like Eve to me. We are subjected to the same type of temptations by the same tempter. 1Peter 5:8. Failure is not uncommon.
We can trust God by building a relationship with God. When we build that relationship we will truly understand, and know him for what he truly is. He is loving, powerful, and reliable. We can only build that relationship by spending time with him. We spend time by praying to him, praising him, and studying his word. By doing these things we will trust God even more!
Per EGW in Patriarchs & Prophets pg 52 Adam and Eve were told about Satan.
"Our first parents were not left without a warning of the danger that threatened them. Heavenly messengers opened to them the history of Satan's fall and his plots for their destruction, unfolding more fully the nature of the divine government, which the prince of evil was trying to overthrow. It was by disobedience to the just commands of God that Satan and his host had fallen. How important, then, that Adam and Eve should honor that law by which alone it was possible for order and equity to be maintained."
The question raised in this lesson is one that I myself struggle with even still. But further than this is the matter of ethics. If God knew that the most horrific things would happen that humanity would stoop to the level it has, where innocent children/babies are beaten abused and killed and thrown in the trash, then why create us at all? If in the context of the Great Controversy God allows it to prove Satan's evil and danger of sin to the whole of creation, does it make it ethical? In another way, if I witness/allow a crime to be perpetrated and do nothing, does that not make me accessory? I have questioned these things for a while and am yet to find an adequate answer, however I do not for one second doubt the existence of God. Even though things happen in the planet that are unspeakably bad I have faith that God is good, it was never part of the plan and as He promises it will finish. But I completely understand these questions and I'm just thankful that God had given me a healthy measure of faith.
We sometimes view God's omnipotence as meaning limitless power and do not stop to think that even limitless power is subject to logical boundaries. For example, the question, "Can God create a stone that is too big for him to lift?" implies a logical contradiction. It does not matter whether you answer yes or no to that question because both answers logically limit omnipotence.
Here is something to think about: Can God create intelligent life without giving that life the power of choice? This question may well imply a logical contradiction. In other words: intelligent life must come with free choice or it is not intelligent life.
Once we understand that God had no choice but to give free choice, then we understand that one of the options is to excercise that free choice and rebel against God. Now if God destroys evil before it has had the opportunity to play out its fullest extent, God would be once again limiting free choice. That is, God's omnipotence is working within a logical boundary.
All of this is of cold comfort if your family has died and you are covered with boils, except for the fact that God saw the consequences of exercising free choice to rebel against him and promised to be with us in our trials.
I do not pretend that my excursion into logic is going to convince everyone, but it has helped me come to terms with the big question about why God "allowed" evil.
Maurice, I agree and would go back one more step: Since self-renouncing love is intrinsic to the character of God, He wanted to create beings with whom He could have a love relationship. Love is not possible without choice, and, of course, choice is not possible without intelligence. 🙂 Not giving humanity free choice would have been equivalent to creating robots, and robots cannot love.
So we have the dilemma that free choice is necessary for love, but free choice also makes evil possible. God foreknew the terrible emergency of evil, and He made plans to meet it - by becoming Immanuel, One with humanity, and suffering and dying that we might have life.
The questions is, How can we "LEARN TO TRUST GOD” despite evil?
Usually, trust comes through experience. Either our own experiences or from the experiences of others. "Faith cometh by Hearing and Hearing by the WORD of God." (Rom. 10:17)
When we experience difficulties, evil in this life, we must learn through experience for ourselves that our “HOPE’” is found only in Christ. (Rom. 5:3,4) This is a truth that we must be reminded of constantly because evil will exist until Jesus comes.
God has given us the experiences of others in the scriptures so that we might LEARN to have comfort, patience, and above all, HOPE. (Rom. 15:4,13)
You are totally correct Garry, it is all about learning to trust God more. I am glad for Job's example, with all that happened to him he remained faithful to God. I heard a wonderful sermon this passed Sabbath about suffering and it's purpose. Job's situation was different according to the theme of the sermon that I heard - it was the devil trying to prove that the only reason Job was following God was because he was so blessed. What I got from the sermon was that we all suffer because we live on a sin cursed planet, God does not cause our suffering, He gives us the ability to cope through it, and that at times suffering can be used to help correct something in our lives that needs to be corrected.
Jesus learned obedience by the things that he suffered. We learn by falling, confessing and getting up again. "A righteous man falls seven times and gets up again." Job very closely resembles Jesus' method. All thou we shall soon see in the last chapter how strong of a contrast between them there was.
l feel you too K Stock Why did God allow when he has capacity to stop is puzzling question to many, but it is the goodness of God that has led him to let sin ripen and be witnessed by all its sinfulness. God also deals with sin through justice and love not evil for evil, and lastly amid these terrible results of sin woe and desolation God has provided an antidote such that all these sufferings are nothing compared to the glory prepared for us. Remember the study of Salvation shall be always a mystery we will learn throughout eternal ages, dat God his ways are far above ours
K. Stock I understand your struggle with God's decision to allow Satan to run his course. We forget that it is the entire UNIVERSE that is watching this thing play out. You may ask "why create us or Satan?" If you had a child that you thought was going to be born with severe disabilities would you allow him to be born? God created us and this UNIVERSE because He loves us and He only ask that we worship Him because we love Him back. Satan has said to anyone who will listen that God is unfair His law and rule is unjust. I know that God knows our pain. His Only Begotten Son died a horrific death so that He could show the UNIVERSE how wrong Satan is.
One day soon this Controversy will be over. Michael will stand up and say that's enough... Daniel 12:1. I for one am thankful that God allowed my family and I to be born. I have personal experience of how hard its been running these last few miles. Oh! a better day is coming. A time when I will see my Savior face- to- face to live with Him for eternity where there will be no more crying, no more pain, no more suffering, no more death, and no more SIN... Rev. 21:1-5. Oh! I can hardly wait.
But until then we need to stand strong, thank God for the measure of faith He has given us, trust Him, and encourage others to do the same. Peace Out!
The questions of why are with us as long as we live. The one that we have no answer for the most often is, why did sin begin in Heaven.? Whoever suggested that Faith is the answer, makes the most sense in the struggle to understand. Absolutes are not always Biblical even if curiosity gets the better of us. Our finite reasoning would best be applied to Isaiah 55:8,9.
God is who he is because he is a creator. If he does not create, he is not God. Creation is the act of creating intelligent beings and that implies that those beings have free choice (otherwise they are automatons, and not intelligent). Freedom of choice implies the opportunity for rebellion.
What are the alternatives? God could have not created anything. But then he would not be the creator and by definition not God. Or he could have created beings without free choice. I would argue that if he did that, he would not be God either.
Consideration of alternative creative scenarios leads us to recognise that evil was always a possibility. God recognised that and made two promises: 1) he would be with us, and 2) he would provide a path to a new creation where rebellion will not occur ( by choice).
I thank God that He is the Truth, an honest Creator Whom has had put together the plan of salvation at the foundation of the earth.
To answer the quesition, firstly l give God honor and all the merit because He was honest with Adam and Eve from the start, He revealed to them the existence of evil amidst them. He was asking for love by choice and not force. Regardless E. G White shares a glimpse of how angels kept the two on guard about the evil one, isnt this love? What do you call when a friend warns you about something bad that would harm you? Thats exactly God\'s character of care revealed in the garden. It was the best way to inform Adam and Eve of the evil and good through planting the tree of life and evil in the garden. Today, God has planted His own son in the garden hoping you and l will eat His word and live. (He is the word)
I personally, going through harsh times at the moment, lost my job, lost a home mostly l lost all ny three beloved sisters but the story of Job keep reminding me, regardless God cares and for sure He walketh with me. None of my sorrows will change my live for God, may He be glorified.
Moses, it is times like this that our Faith and Trust are tested the most. May God give you what you ask, because He said He would. Luke 11:9, Ps 91:4.
Thank you saints for all your insights and comments.
Question
I often hear God is not responsible for sin,Satan is the one who causes the sufferings..are we not attributing power to Satan? Because honestly if he has the power to cause a dreadful tsunami that leaves thousands dead, the guy must be powerful .... so how do we rightfully say that only God has the power to do this but not saying he is causing evil?
Happier, there is no doubt Satan does have power, but God is way more powerful.
Happier, might I refer also to the thought that "the strength of sin", or "the power of sin" is the law. (1Cor 15:56) In this, the Bible attributes enormous power to SIN.
The law of God, in and of itself, condemns every transgressor to death - it gives no help to them. But the law is not an enemy of God. The law is a part of Him; it is written in His heart; it is a "transcript" of His own character, and it cannot be done away with. (It is not possible for God to deny Himself.)
Satan derives the bulk of his power from the fact that SIN is so powerful. A large number of people are under Satan's influence, primarily because they are under the control of sin.
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We cannot say that God is divided, and yet it is nonetheless true, I believe, that "the Lord puts constraint upon His own attributes. Omnipotence is exerted over Omnipotence Himself." (3Manuscript Release p.314)
Inge, we know that Eve did not *know* GOOD . Before she took of the fruit she reasoned and judged that it was *good* for food - the opposite of what God *knew*. She arrived at that conclusion based on info from a creature they had been given dominion over with authority to subdue, betraying the trust God had put in them. The conditions that God had described as good upon creation was just normal and regular to the pair. They knew nothing else. There was nothing to distinguish between good and evil. I think that by experience while *fearing* the Lord they would have acquired the wisdom to discern between good and evil without actually experimenting on evil. That’s my humble conclusion.
Hi Kenny,
I would say that before eating of the forbidden fruit, Eve knew only good. By eating the fruit, she experienced evil - choosing to live outside the will of God and experiencing the consequences.
Knowledge of evil was not necessary for Adam and Eve. It is not necessary for anyone. God wanted us to know only good.
Thanks for this thought experiment about the thoughts of evil.
God evidently knew good and evil before he created us. Jesus accepted the role to die in our stead before creation, well before Adam was made. It was this that began the decline for Lucifer to become Satan. Jealousy, he wanted full power to know and show his talents, but creation was about love not intelligence.
We have no idea how long Adam and Eve lived prior to sin. Adam felt remorse or jealousy perhaps because there was no mate for him. Was that an oversight on God's part? No, but it shows God interacting with Adam. Certainly he was training Adam. "You'll be fine without a wife" wouldn't cut it.
The serpent was under the dominion of Adam. That does not mean that Satan wasn't also there to spread his dissenting thoughts and confuse the new pair. Our world was given over to Satan's control to express his belief that experimenting with all knowledge was beneficial. Satan was not under their dominion, only the serpent. To realize the dynamic of that relationship (Satan influencing the serpent) God could have told Adam what was going on. That would be reason for Satan to say "unfair" they must choose! After they had fallen, all heaven saw the impact of sin and they were able to say "they are like us, knowing Good and evil". I imagine the serpent eating the fruit in front of Eve while telling her that it wouldn't hurt her. "See, I'm fine". In retrospect, removing the tree gave many more years to our human history, for all the evil to be developed took centuries, not days. We must rejoice that evil developed slowly. But today we have much evil. Our world holds the cup brimming full of iniquity, and if not for restraint all humanity would be wiped out. Kenny, think on enmity. God placed love in the garden. He desires mercy more than knowledge or obedience.