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Wednesday: He Died for Us — 15 Comments

  1. Most of you know that I use analogies to help make points in our lesson studies. Some analogies are better than others but all of them are not the real thing. They are generally limited to one or two facets of the concepts we are studying. The danger of analogies is that often we focus on what the analogy illustrates to the exclusion of the rest of reality.

    The Bible uses a number of analogies -we call them types sometimes - to get across the bib ideas of salvation. An obvious one is of course the sacrificial lamb. While it pointed forward to the sacrifice of Jesus, many Hebrews regarded it simply as payment for their sins. That interpretation lost some of its special meaning. Its a bit like thinking that the marriage certificate is the marriage itself. (oops, that's another analogy!)

    Sin and its solution is a very big concept. I have my own ideas about the depth of the issue and while I am not going to promote them here, I believe that my ideas only scratch the surface. It strikes at the very core of existence itself.

    So why did Jesus die? Was it some form of payment for the return of ownership? Was it a substitute death, for a death we deserved? Was it an illustration of unselfish love? Most of these descriptions contain truth but by themselves, each is just a facet of truth.

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 KJV

    This verse is perhaps the most popular in the whole of scripture because it encapsulates the concept of the salvation experience. A God who dies so that his creation can live defies description. But, it can be experienced!

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    • This is a wonderful thought, thanks for sharing.

      A God who dies so that His creation can live defies description. But, it can be experienced!

      (3)
  2. Study asks:
    What do these verses teach that Christ’s death has accomplished for us?

    Humanity had the presence of God in Eden.
    Since the fall of our first parents, God's presence through his Spirit was not available to mankind.

    The temple arrangement in Jerusalem under the old covenant showed the continued separation of God's presence in the most holy place of the temple separated from mankind except the Jewish priesthood through animal sacrifices. Hebrews 10:4

    Christ Jesus is the new temple that can give us access and unity with God.
    John 2:19
    Mark 14:58
    Acts 19:2
    Galatians 3:3

    Shalom 🙏

    (11)
    • Hi, Larry. I can certainly agree with you that the death of Jesus, on the cross, is what enables us to receive the new birth brought to us by the power of the Holy Spirit. But was this not available to believers in Old Testament times?

      Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. So, as with the resurrection of Moses, the benefits of the atonement must have been available to all, from the very entrance of sin. After Jesus' ascension, we understand that the Holy Spirit came as His personal representative. But was the Holy Spirit not involved in saving people from sin, all along?

      Who inspired the prophets to write the books of the Old Testament, so that those books became the word of God? As I see it, without the regenerative power of the Holy Spirit, even in Old Testament times, no one could have been saved.

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      • Regeneration in Holy Spirit is regarded as Sonship / born again.
        The Spirit's work pre-Christ was not regeneration but prophetic shadows/types of the realities in Christ's work.

        Prophecy in the past points to Christ!
        Revelation 19:10

        (0)
        • For me, Larry, it is quite simple. Without regeneration, we are helpless, hopeless sinners. There were people saved in Old Testament times, by anticipating the sacrifice of Christ. Of course, the Holy Spirit gave them new birth. Otherwise, there could never have been any "holy men of God." 2 Peter 1:21

          The danger I see, in what you are saying, is that someone today could be encouraged to dispense with the need for regeneration, thinking that Abraham, Moses, and David were saved without it. That could not end well!

          (3)
          • There was no spiritual Birth / regeneration before Christ's resurrection.

            Nicodemus had no idea of new spiritual birth!

            "How can these things be?” asked Nicodemus. “Are you a teacher of Israel and don’t know these things?” Jesus replied. John 3:3-19

            Please show any scripture where people of the nations before Christ were born again!

            Hebrews, chapter 11, shows people of faith (not born again) will be blessed in the New Creation.

            (0)
            • Thank you, Larry, for the Scripture references. Indeed, it does appear that Nicodemus knew nothing about being born from above, and that is just what we might have expected, if no such thing had ever existed, up until that time. But what was Jesus' reaction? Astonishment! Jesus seems to think that, as Israel's teacher, Nicodemus should have known all about regeneration, and have been teaching it to others. Why?

              Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? Ezekiel 18:31

              I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Ezekiel 36:26-27

              What do the Scriptures say are the consequences, if God has not put His Spirit within us?

              But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9

              So then, what about the heroes of faith, mentioned in Hebrews 11? In what, or in whom, did they place their faith? Was it in the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8), in the merits of His blood to be shed for them, and in His power to save them from their sins by giving them a new heart, and a new life from above, by the agency of His Spirit?

              Or was there another Saviour, in Old Testament times, who was able to do what even Jesus cannot do -- save people from sin without even giving them the spiritual power to overcome it?

              (3)
  3. There are no words to describe what God did do, and will! It is wordless! None can describe God, because He is indescribable! None can sing His music; He is soundless! God is SUPER! He is THE owner, and THE maker, creator; He is perfection Himself! I really want to mix myself completely into His fluid, to overflow in abundance, and joy, and peace, and presence!

    (19)
  4. For God so loved Sarah, that he gave his only begotten Son, that Sarah believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 KJV

    This brings smiles to me cos I feel so special that if I'm the only sinner, Jesus will still die for me. God help me to live according to his standards. Amen

    (11)
  5. I have to disagree with the wording of the lesson where it states "take away sins by themselves" and "provided only conditional forgiveness".
    The bible verses used even state, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins."
    This all inclusive, the animal blood DID point to Christ; but it, in itself, didn't, in the least amount, take away any of the sinner's sin. Animal sacrifice was 'theatre.'
    The animal sacrifice also points to the sinner for we must truly die to self and be raised in Christ for Christ to take away the sins of the world. Man must change in mind, body and soul. Psalm 51:16,17 (BSB) "16For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings. 17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise. "

    That said, I really like the quote from Martin Luther. The "consumed by the fire of boundless love" reminds me of Her 12:29 (BSB) “ For our God is a consuming fire.”
    and Isa 33:14,15 (BSB) "14The sinners in Zion are afraid; trembling grips the ungodly: “Who of us can dwell with a consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting flames?” 15He who walks righteously and speaks with sincerity, who refuses gain from extortion, whose hand never takes a bribe, who stops his ears against murderous plots and shuts his eyes tightly against evil—…"

    (7)
  6. None of us chose to be born. And I am sure that none of us chose to live a life of sin at the time of our birth. And I am sure that none of us chose to live a life with sin as our nature and natural tendency either. So to me, the statement in this lesson that we deserve to be condemned for something we have done. So, yes we do deserve to be condemned for the wrong things that we do but again who is to blame for my being born in sin? So why should I then suffer for this fact? I love Hebrews 9:27,28; here God's word says to me that it was because I did not choose to be born in sin and yet it is still my lot in this life that Jesus was sent to take my place to set me back to give me eternal life anyway.

    (6)
    • Good points Pete on our reality check !

      I struggled with these reality checks also.

      This scripture gave me an understanding that I'm in the dog house but God has dropped down a rope, and wants to adopt me to be a person of dignity...

      2“Remember that the LORD your God led you on the entire journey these forty years in the wilderness, so that he might humble you and

      #test you# to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands

      Keep on trucking !!!!
      Deuteronomy 8:2
      🙏👍

      (2)
      • Amen to this, Larry Flynn, I also love Deuteronomy 4:29,30 especially where it says "latter days," because this I see as applying to me as being "Abraham's Seed because of Jesus the Second Adam." I heard a testimony on You-Tube, of a man that had ended up in prison for 20 years for killing a man, but in prison he gave his heart to Jesus and went about in prison giving Bible Studies to those who chose to do this and eventually he was freed after 8 years of "good behavior" etc. God will save even someone in prison for killing another, when they turn to Jesus just like He saved King David after killing a man and taking that man's wife, when King David repented for those sins.

        (1)
  7. The primary text (Jn 3:14-18) around which this day's study is based is quite a shocking metaphor on contemplation! It could be as challenging for some modern-day disciples as some things Jesus said to His contemporary disciples (Mt 17:22-23; Mk 9:31-32), which are also referenced in this week's lesson.

    Factually, these are Jesus' own words and is an excerpt from His conversation with Nicodemus. They are a reference to a historical event Nicodemus, as a teacher of Scripture (Jn 3:10), would have been familiar with (Num 21:4-9). The prevailing teaching and understanding of Messiah's role was such that it was an obstacle to Jesus' teaching of His disciples (Mt 16:21-23). They under estimated their susceptibility to dated (Mt 9:14,17), mistaken (Mt 22:29), and even patently false teachings (Mt 16:11-12)—of which Jesus repeatedly warned them.

    But what's so shocking about Jesus' teaching in Jn 3:14-18? Again, these are Jesus' own words pertaining to Himself and His role as a Life-Giving Substitute on humanity's behalf. Everyone can understand Christ's role within the metaphor of a "slain Lamb" (Rev 13:8; Jn 1:29)...but a "serpent"?! But what if we could suppress our preconceived prejudice regarding snakes and listen to Jesus' own words again? Could we hear Him telling us that He was GOING TO BECOME--not a SOURCE of venom--but a REPOSITORY of venom! Would that align with Scripture's consistent prophecy regarding Him (Lev 16:21-22; Ps 22:1-2; 40:7-8,12; Isa 53:6,12) and its fulfillment (1 Pt 2:22,24; 2 Cor 5:18,21)? Could His use of this "repulsive" metaphor also contain a subtle warning regarding our preconceived concepts versus His Holy Spirit's authority over "the will of man", both in our speech and our hearing (2 Pt 1:19-21)?

    (2)

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