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Monday: A Toast to “Death” — 16 Comments

  1. "A Toast to suicide"

    "Moderate drinking is the school in which men are receiving an education for the drunkard's career." (Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene page 33.1)

    "Tobacco is a slow, insidious poison. Its effects are more difficult to cleanse from the system than are those of liquor. It binds the victim in even stronger bands of slavery than does the intoxicating cup." (Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene page 33.2)

    "Tea, coffee, and tobacco, as well as alcoholic drinks, are different degrees in the scale of artificial stimulants.
    The effect of tea and coffee, as heretofore shown, tends in the same direction as that of wine and cider, liquor and tobacco.
    Tea is a stimulant, and to a certain extent produces intoxication."
    (Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene page 34.1-3)

    "Through the use of stimulants, the whole system suffers.
    1. The nerves are unbalanced, the liver is morbid in its action, the quality and circulation of the blood are affected, and the skin becomes inactive and sallow.
    2.The mind, too, is injured. The immediate influence of these stimulants is to excite the brain to undue activity, only to leave it weaker and less capable of exertion. 3.The after-effect is prostration, not only mental and physical, but moral.

    As a result we see nervous men and women, of unsound judgment and unbalanced mind. They often manifest a hasty, impatient, accusing spirit, viewing the faults of others as through a magnifying glass, and utterly unable to discern their own defects. {(Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene page 35.3)

    Amen!(26)
    • That is true, but typically the amount of alcohol in medication is such that it has little effect if taken according to directions. It should also be noted that small amounts of ethyl alcohol are produced as part of the digestive process of plant materials. The amounts are small and the body has the appropriate metabolic processes for handling it. There is a very big difference in the amount of alcohol between these situations and drinking aloholic beaverages

      Amen!(17)
  2. This is a complicated issue. It's close to home for me growing up in a family that has battled addiction, depression, suicide, and mental health issues. It's a vicious cycle. I am prone to depression, alcohol, and drug abuse. If I don't have my daily bread, I fall apart. If I don't do as we are told at the end of Ecclesiastes, I fall apart. When I do not put God first and obey Him, life is pointless and leads down that same road as many a poor souls. I understand it, because, I am one. Let's us pray for the liberty of those still suffering and for ourselves who struggle and not be quick to judge. Amen.

    Amen!(32)
  3. I think the use of wine in the text today is literal. not contradictory. It was used back then to numb peoples emotions especially since they did not have advanced medicines we have now. the question is... now with advanced medicine, technology and recourses, why use alcohol. It has become a social status. and we as Adventist need to be proud that we are in control and don't have to turn to that . our bodies are the temple of God and we ant to be present at all times

    Amen!(15)
    • Just remember that we have strong drink which they did not have. There is no evidence that they distilled alcohol like we do. The copious quantity of naturally fermented wine or beer that you would need to drink to get an anaesthetising effect renders that use quite improbable.

      Amen!(3)
  4. There are some who propose that the Bible doesn't condemn alcohol consumption just over-drinking. The same way that the Bible doesn't speak against eating but overeating.

    For example, Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”

    How do we respond to this idea?

    Amen!(5)
  5. While I don't drink alcohol (mainly because I'm Adventist, partly because I've seen what it does to people), I must say that I have been taken aback when I've dined with other Adventists (both inside and outside the home) and have seen them consume alcohol. And may I be perfectly honest here? I've heard so many Christians rationalize it being okay to drink alcohol---as long as you are using moderation--- through the use of Bible texts. Unfortunately, I think today's lesson didn't do enough of a job to delve into the context behind Proverbs 31:6-7 to help me show others why this text---gathered along with others (the most popular being 1 Timothy 5:23)---does not mean that God has given us a "pass" to drink. Hopefully that will be addressed during the later parts of this week's lesson.

    Amen!(10)
  6. We are the children of God ,whenever we are remember that who we are in everything, our bodies are the temple of the lord ,lLemuel's mother encouraged us to be careful with the alcohol .Because the alcohol is not for the children of God , it's for depressed person ?

    Amen!(5)
  7. There always will be problem areas in the Bible where there is contradiction and gray areas to wrestle with. To me it is the principles that we need to understand. As many have said before the Bible is a case book not a code book. We are to learn from the experiences of those that went before and see how the principals are applied and their outcomes - cause to effect.

    When I read in the Bible about someone that got drunk and did some insane thing because of it that to me is a lesson to be learned.

    Amen!(16)
  8. Drinking to death is a powerful subject here, let's consider those who are not witnessed to and they don't know how dangerous is drinking. It is my duty and your duty to witness and discus these verses with people who think it is good to drink but don't get drunk.

    Amen!(4)
  9. People who drink but do not get drunk and people who are so called casual drinkers are very difficult to witness too simple because he/ she are not willing to accept that alcohol causes health problems, etc. I think that if we use the "getting to know a person first" approach we can get to the root of the problem. In most causes people drink to cover up or deal with personal and professional issues. Helping a person solve their issues will result in most causes the elimination of alcohol and other substance abuse. Pray for the leading of the Holy Spirit in reaching those who are struggling with any addition including women and wine.

    Amen!(4)
  10. Shall we consider also the other side of the issue. In the teachers comments of the lesson, it says, "Using such drinks in certain situations as described in Prov. (vss 6,7 as in the case of the suffering) is similar to hospice medicinals permitted today, but this allowance certainly does not endorse drunkenness, which is warned about and condemned in Proverbs (20:1,21,17; 23:29-35)".

    What should be the guiding principle in using abominables as medicines (like snake's bile, shark's oil, lizards, turtle and many others)? Why is honey on one side which is a product of abominable bee allowed to be eaten?

    Amen!(3)
    • Where in scripture does is say bees are an abomination? Lev 11:23? Don't bees have six legs? Didn't John feast on wild honey in the wilderness (Matt 3:4)? Not sure how we are to interpret use/consumption of bi-products of abominable creatures but I'm inclined to compare cases like these to the utterance of Lamuel's mother (Prov 31:6-7) that seems to cause so much controversy. Perhaps in the larger picture, we are to use wise discernment when abominables are needed to treat/cure pain and discomfort.

      Amen!(0)

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