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Sunday: Greeks and Jews — 23 Comments

  1. Personal encounters with God had been the basis for me. I know we can't all have same things happening in life,so the way one takes/understands God might not be the same. Nonetheless,the cross becomes a unifying point for our faith on our Lord. Wen the cross is the unifying point, then we won't live but Christ will live in us.

    (28)
  2. Apparently the heritage of the Jews set up many of them to be fascinated by signs (John 4:48). Some of them were so preoccupied with signs there was no room left in the mind for Christ (Luke 11:29, 30). As well the Greeks seemed to have been trained in much science. So their emphasis on proof would leave little room for faith in Jesus, if they could not explain some things (1 Corinthians 1:22, 23).

    Paul though makes it clear there is a point at which sinners are called to make a decision on the basis of the cross, without signs and without proof (2 Corinthians 2:2). If the cross is not enough signs and knowledge will not make a difference (2 Corinthians 2:4, 5).

    Particularly as end time signs steadily unfold before the remnant people, who have a heritage of prophecy, there is need to keep things in perspective.

    Although the signs have been anticipated for a while some are visibly frightened by recent developments. Some have made too much of the nightly news, raising alarms which are speculative. Others have added questionable details to well-rehearsed prophecies to fit their imagined scenario or fill in the blanks of observed current events. Still others are puffed up with religious pride having told others how it would be and appear to be proven right so far.

    Jesus had cautioned His disciples not to rejoice about external miracles or wonders, but to be concerned about their salvation (Luke 10:17-20). Prophetic fulfillment, revelation of signs and proof ought not to so consume the thoughts there is little time for Christ and the cross. Signs are to point to Jesus and encourage, not scare the saints as they prepare for the Redeemer’s return.

    The restoration of the moral image of God in mankind is far more important than signs and knowledge; for when prophecy and proof fail (1 Corinthians 13:8) character and faith last (1 Corinthians 13:13).

    (48)
    • For those who have faith in God, signs may strengthen that faith (John 14:29). But for those who disbelieve, signs will cause them to sense their need and, by their choice, will lead to repentance or further rebellion (1 Corinthians 14:21-25). In the exodus, the same signs encouraged Israel and hardened Pharoah. The cross will do likewise. We choose.

      (4)
    • Hugh,
      I do not understand how 2 Cor 2 support your points in your second paragraph. Could you explain how these verses on grief and love support a decision for Christ with/without signs and knowledge?

      2 Corinthians 2: 2 (NKJV) "For if I make you sorrowful, then who is he who makes me glad but the one who is made sorrowful by me?"

      2 Corinthians 2:4-5 (NKJV) "For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote to you, with many tears, not that you should be grieved, but that you might know the love which I have so abundantly for you. But if anyone has caused grief, he has not grieved me, but all of you to some extent—not to be too severe."

      (6)
      • Dorothy,
        Thanks for being a keen observer and taking the comment seriously enough to check the reference. This is my error. The correct references are 1 Corinthians 2:2 and 1 Corinthians 2:4, 5. Hopefully this makes more sense in the immediate context of the nearby verses and the entire book and Paul's overall message.

        The cross stands alone above everything in the apostle's mind. The expression of supreme love at Calvary and the indispensable value of the atonement may not be fully appreciated by many. Humans may sympathize with some of the physical suffering of Christ, but none can totally conceive of what it means to die the second death. Yet that which may be understood cannot be exceeded in value by knowledge or signs. If Paul had nothing else to work with the cross would be sufficient for him.

        He learned that none of his logical arguments or miracles wrought could match the effect of the cross.

        Please pardon my lapse and I apologize to all who were confused or in any way misled by my mistake.

        (12)
  3. The reason for my faith is the hope of eternal life thru Jesus Christ my Lord, savior and redeemer. I have found peace that can only be enjoyed in the presence of God, I have found happiness that the world can not provided. I have witnessed the grace of God for unworthy lowlife sinners like me and have tasted his unspeakable love for a fallen race at the foot of the cross. Knowing Jesus makes my life a happy life. Glory to his name forevermore! Amen!

    (10)
  4. "The Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom”. (1Cor 1:22)

    The two groups mentioned here were both in error.
    Neither one could see anything in Christ to be desired.

    The Greeks sought wisdom. What kind of wisdom? It was a particular kind of wisdom that they wanted, wasn't it? They admired what Aristotle [and others] had brought to them -- the "science of exact reasoning". They wanted flowery, logical, exact, reasoning.

    Today, a lot of people still look for the same kind of “wisdom” that the Greeks looked for [and so admired]. Many Christians look for that same kind of "wisdom" too. But the big danger, for them, is that Christ will become a glorified Aristotle... rational and clinical, dry and formal. Faith in something that is unseen becomes an un-attractive concept.

    To the Greek mind, the wisdom of Christ is always "foolishness".

    There is a wisdom that is pure and peacable, but let's not forget that there is also a wisdom that represses and removes God from the heart and mind.

    (12)
  5. My faith is based on God's word. As a child, I was told things that were not biblical. When I started reading the bible for myself, the Holy Spirit showed me the truth. Thank you Jesus!!!

    (8)
  6. When confronted with the issue of crossing the cultural divide with the message of the Gospel we often fall into the trap of making assertions about how important the cross is and that we have to accept Jesus by faith and so on. I have no problem with these statements per se but we need to think seriously about the practicality of sharing the Gospel.

    The biggest divide that many of us face is that most of our society belong to the unchurched culture. We live in a secular world that has largely moved beyond believing that the Bible has anything important to say and that a personal God is real. I once heard a quote that if you see a person in a church in Europe, it is likely that person in a tourist; a person in church in the USA is likely to be a politician; and a person in church in Australia is most likely an idiot.

    Stereotypes a side, we face an overwhelming task in trying to reach the vast majority of our society. We are ill-equiped to even talk to these folk about Christianity. Our "faith language" is meaningless to them. There is a cultural barrier to what we are trying to say.

    I believe that the Gospel is a cross-cultural message but that we are lacking the language and communication skills to share that message. As I look back over much of what has been said in these discussions about culture I have noted that while much of what has been said is meaningful to Adventists and indeed Christians, it is gibberish to unchurched folk. We do not speak their language. and we do not answer their questions.

    For us to successfully preach the Gospel we may need to think more about the needs of unchurched folk now rather than trying to convince them to reserve themselves a place in heaven. That is one reason why I think that programs such as CHIP have potential. If we can help people with their lifestyle decisions now, they may be interested in what else we have to say as well.

    (5)
    • Maurice, those that go to church in the US are not all politicians. The problem here is the world in the church, even within the confines of Adventism that is a problem. When good people see no difference then there is nothing to attract them.

      As far as communication is concerned breaking down the barriers to understanding is universal. All good speakers know that to communicate there has to be common ground and that is where I find agreement with what you are saying.

      I also think being a good Christian is absolutely necessary but sometimes even that fails. There are plenty of people out there that will only use you until the benefits run out then they will seek someone else to milk. To me being a friend is the way to go if we have time. If we don’t then either try to defuse misunderstanding or lay some seed that the Holy Spirit can use later on and always leave with a good impression and I think that is probably all that we can expect to do.

      Years ago my sister was surprised when I told her that I thought that people outside our church were going to be saved but she never moved past that point. We are still on good speaking terms but she is too attached to her church to consider an alternative (a large Southern Baptist church that is too socially orientated, if you know what I mean).

      (5)
      • I understand your comment about "the world in the church" Tyler, but I don't see that as "the" problem. The problem is that we have this thing called the gospel and we talk about it among ourselves using a special language that un-churched people simply do not understand. My kids had a great awakening when the went to university. Brought up in an Adventist home and attending Adventist Schools, they were to a large extent unaware of what the real world is like and it came as a bit of a shock to them.

        My daughter, the extrovert, and great communicator of the family, suddenly found that there was a whole vocabulary that she could not use to communicate with. And she had to quickly learn a new vocabulary.

        I find it almost frightening to read over the posts on this blog about mission and find that we have almost exclusively used Adventist language and phraseology to justify our ideas. If we were serious about being missionaries across the cultural divide we would be writing about how we can talk to people in pubs and clubs. One of the most challenging articles that I read during my career as a teacher was a presentation by one of my students, "Clubbing for Adventists!" In the presentation, he made the point that the clubs were where people go and if we want to talk to them we need to go where the people go (and not get drunk and gamble etc in the process). The presentation scared me spitless but it got me thinking that we need to actively bridge that gap if we want to talk to people about what we think is important.

        Jesus was accused of mixing with publicans and sinners. He came to save those that were lost, not to pat those on the back who were already saved. Somehow we have got to follow the example of Jesus.

        Here is a thought: I have the opportunity to meet with a group of mainly in-churched folk who love photographing birds. The meeting is on Friday night once a month. These folk know that I am a Seventh-day Adventist. Should I go? Is it an opportunity to open up channels of communication to un-churched folk? Or should I tell them that I cannot come because I am a Seventh-day Adventist and we don't go to social gatherings on Friday night? Am I being selfish by staying home, or am I being selfish by going to such a meeting?

        I am not seeking an excuse to indulge in a passion, but I want folk on this blog to think outside the square and to ask how we can seriously communicate across the churched/un-churched divide.

        (9)
        • Maurice, if I were you I would go. You don't have to do things that are inappropriate on the Sabbath and there is nothing that I know of that forbids social gatherings during the Sabbath hours.

          If such a thing hangs us up perhaps we should think more about what we do during potlucks and church outings. There are even some that won't think twice about playing sports and talking business during those hours so why not engage in some social outreach in an area that you enjoy - and be a good witness in the process. I think that is what Jesus would do.

          (3)
        • Maurice, I am hearing what you are saying and agree that we have a communication barrier with the outside world. Perhaps we are not spending enough time with those people in order to know what they think and talk about.

          Throughout my life I was lucky, I was never employed or educated by the church and I never lived in an Adventist community. I was therefore forced to communicate almost exclusively with those on the outside.

          Jesus reached people where they were and talked to them on their level. I think we need to do the same.

          (2)
        • Don't we go to "social gatherings" on Friday evenings? Don't we sometimes meet for various purposes that are appropriate for the Sabbath?

          It seems to me that only you can decide whether you can remain in the Sabbath spirit in such a meeting, and whether you can introduce such an atmosphere - with your comments and with the images you share. You could even mention how you used a lot of your photography in worships services. 🙂 (It seems to me that bird photography lends itself to a Creator emphasis.) It's really not a cut-and-dried matter, is it?

          If some of these folks are already your friends, they might even change the meeting time for you ...

          (1)
  7. Maurice,
    It is interesting to me when I hear people say that you have to meet people at their places of pleasure. The pub, the club etc. I have been to all those places and I can tell you that I would not be discussing God at such a venue. I believe that if you are true to your convictions and your life reflects your convictions that people would be interested to know about your beliefs. Our lives have to reflect our love for God. In everything we do, do all to the glory of God.

    (1)
    • The point that I am trying to make Eileen is that we often insulate ourselves from un-churched people. I can understand Adventists being wary of pubs and clubs but where do we mix socially with un-churched folk? My concern is that too many of us use our beliefs to insulate ourselves from contact with others rather than reaching out to them. There are social activities that we should be involved in because they provide opportunities for sharing.

      The other issue that is worth thinking about is that witnessing for the Lord does not necessarily mean talking about Him. I have found myself in situations where listing has been the most effective form of witnessing.

      I have told the story of my daughter attending university here before. One of her most effective forms of witnessing was caring for other students when they got too drunk to look after themselves and make sure they got home safely. Some of those students are still her friends 15 years later (and are more sober now as well!).

      The unchurched will not hear the message if we do not learn to communicate with them.

      (4)
  8. Interesting thoughts Maurice, I hear you saying the main idea of being a missionary is intentionally seeking out people who don't know the love of Jesus yet and finding ways to start a dialogue.

    (1)
  9. Maurice, what examples are there in the Word of intentionally interacting with those who were not interested in the LORD with the purpose of sharing the gospel?
    Maybe Jonah with a message of repent or die.
    Maybe Paul in Athens - unknown God.
    I can't think of others, mostly the missionaries are talking to "seekers", not generating seekers.
    John 16 seems to say that it is the Holy Spirit who "convicts" people that they need something better?

    (1)
  10. I think that one of the main points of Jonah's story was that Israelites kept their religion to themselves and had not been a "light to the world."

    While it is true that the Holy Spirit "convicts" people, the Holy Spirit has to work through us. We are commissioned to go to all the world.

    (3)
  11. its important for Christians to base their faith on Christ and not on signs,
    miracles and wonders in order to believe. the devil will deceive many who base
    their faith on outward signs and miracles

    (0)
    • That is true Boaz, but it is worth remembering that faith in Christ is a growing experience. Sometimes the simplest sign or miracle sets of chain of thought that grows the seed of faith.

      If we want to have a healthy body we need to eat and exercise properly. Similarly if we want to grow our faith beyond signs and miracles we need to feed and exercise our faith. Faith is not a state of mind; it is an active interaction with Jesus and one another.

      (3)

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