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Wednesday: Transitions — 39 Comments

  1. I don’t think that too many of us can claim to have been knocked off our donkey and blinded like Paul in our transition from unbelief to belief. My experience has been more a journey into belief than an epiphany. And I guess the same could be said for many of you too.

    Here is my abbreviated story. I grew up in an Adventist home as a 3rd/4th generation Adventist and was baptized at the tender age of 13. At 17, I left home in New Zealand and traveled to Australia to attend Avondale College where I had my first experience of Adventist Education. After 6 years of education, I graduated with a BSc (Hons) from London University. I taught Science in Adventist high schools for 16 years. Then I started teaching computing at Avondale College and remained there for nearly 30 years. The point is that for most of my life I have been heavily involved in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

    The criticism could be raised that I have led a sheltered “Adventist” life and there has been no great transition from unbelief to belief like Paul. While I cannot claim a dramatic transition, my belief has not been without challenges. For me, it has not been a question of changing beliefs but of seriously asking the question of why do I believe at all. It is easy to be a nominal Seventh-day Adventist when it is part of our culture but somewhere along the journey, we all must ask ourselves, “Why this belief?”

    It would be hard to document all the challenges that I have faced. Clearly, I am a scientist, I read widely, I postulate, I ask questions, I make observations, I analyze, and I draw conclusions. That is the way a scientist works. Somewhere along the journey, I made the decision that being a nominal, cultural Seventh-day Adventist was not enough. I chose to embrace Christianity as a personal experience. I cannot pinpoint a time where I was knocked off my donkey and was confronted by the Holy Spirit and made that decision. It may have been a work in progress for the last 5o years. But in one sense it has been a transition like Paul’s without the drama.

    Paul had this to say:

    For I fully expect and hope that I will never be ashamed, but that I will continue to be bold for Christ, as I have been in the past. And I trust that my life will bring honor to Christ, whether I live or die. For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better. But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. So I really don’t know which is better. Phil 1:20-22

    Living in Christ is a very different experience to joining the Seventh-day Adventist culture.

    Perhaps your transition story is different. Possibly, you may have never even thought about why you believe. Do you believe because you can quote a stack of Bible verses for each doctrine? Or maybe a compelling charismatic Seventh-day Adventist preacher or media personality impressed you? Could it be that your church has fantastic potluck lunches and you would miss them for anything in the world? Ask yourself how your transition took place, and if you are game enough, summarise and share it here.

    (39)
    • I'll be glad to share my experience. But today what I can say is that in the process of change we do not only notice where is coming from. Wheter from inside battles or outside pressures! I hope that at the end, the result is to become something better. On the way up, not down.

      (7)
    • Thanks so much for sharing a brief outline of your life experience. I cannot claim being a bonafide scientist, but I love science. I had asperations to becoming a medical doctor at one point. My mother has said to me many times that I was the curious child always asking "why?" Always pondering the marvels of bugs, plants and other natural things. I, as I have said earlier, am a bird watcher myself.

      I will give brief outline of my experience, too. Maybe our sharing will give hope, encouragement, help to others.

      (9)
    • Having only recently considered the road I have traveled, your conversion story caused me to pause and recall my own similar though much slower "awakening". The "boost" that I needed occurred about a decade ago when I accepted that Jesus the Messiah is/was the God of the old testament, and that His revealed character is the standard by which I may interpret the scriptures and live my life...and the awakening continues...

      (9)
    • Just like you said Maurice, I too have been in the Adventist Culture since birth but living in Christ has been one of the greatest challenging transition. Until you find Christ and dwell in His presence, being an Adventist will just be a title.

      (1)
      • Listening to many experiences about the difference between growing up in an Christian/SDA community/home and being truly converted brings to an issue that has bothered me for decades. How do we train our children to be moral, kind, caring human beings and at the same time introduce them to a loving Jesus who is interested in the transformation of their heart to be like His.
        Growing up and attending SDA primary, secondary & colleges, the last two as a boarder I got the impression that obeying the rules made Jesus happy no matter what I thought or felt in my heart. Only to discover many years later that Jesus was offering to give me a new heart that wanted to have a character like His.

        (3)
  2. THE ONE WHO IS THE NAME ABOVE ALL
    Is in the business of changing us.

    God can change your name as well.

    He changed Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, Sarai to Sara and Simon to Peter. John 1:12.

    When He changes a name it indicates something new has happened. It means a new relationship, a new character and a new phase of life.

    God will finally give us a new name. Rev 2:17,3:12.

    (25)
  3. Our heart is what needs to change. We can have all the knowledge in the world of God's word or the SDA ddoctrines or life's styles but if we do not permit the Holy Spirit to transform our hearts to reflect Christ's character its all a waste.
    Galatians 5 clearly describes the Fruit of the Spirit and 1 Corinthians 13 describes love. If our character does not reflect in action these characteristics then we need to question our believe system.

    (13)
    • Indeed. Our SDA knowledge base can never save us, but when the love of Christ captivate our hearts, we cannot help, but reflect the character of the one who loves us so much, that He gave His life to make the way for all to be restored to our Creator God.

      (6)
    • Oh my goodness sakes this could not be more true! I personally know a 2nd generation Adventist that can quote you Ellen White frontwards and backwards and stand toe to toe with any theogony master but the man has the most hateful heart of anyone I know. He pulls the wool over strangers eyes because they don’t know the real man.

      (3)
  4. Moses used to remind the isrealites why God chose them,how rebellious and stiffnecked people they were. deut 9,it is the same with us today. humanity has tendency of rebellion and resistant to change, acquiring adventist name doesn't qualify one for heaven (deut 10:12-13) but we are to transformed from within and walk with God all the times, that's when we'll be called the children of GOD. not all who call me LORD, LORD but they that do the will of my FATHER shall inherit the kingdom of GOD. Christ has voted for us by saving us with the precious blood and the devil has voted against us by rebellion and death, we are to break the tie, you cast the vote. with Christ means transformation, eternity and happiness forever and with the devil is death, doom ,destruction.the choice is ours.

    (11)
  5. In this transformation process and God changing you, is there an expectation that because God is or has changed you that everything is ok? Like with Saul/Paul he did horrendous things to people but God changed him but what about the people he killed and hurt? What about those people who also rely on God to make things right for them?

    I have long struggled with the idea that Paul who God chose wasn’t held accountable for his actions.

    (4)
    • It doesn’t matter how horrible the sin we commit, once we submit our hearts to Christ and ask Him to forgive us, He takes those sins on Himself and release us. Paul’s life was not perfect, he suffered a lot and was also murdered for the sake of the gospel.

      (9)
    • Brother Gaynor, It seems Gods economy is one of Grace,in utter contrast to that of this world we live in, as it is run by an "economy of merit." I believe Paul understood this instantly when the scales fell from his vision. Maybe what you are struggling to see is quite the same as Paul's affliction, which seemed to have dogged him until his dying day; the mass murder of his own fellow Christians ... we live in this world with all our sins forgiven,so,we are not of this world. But unfortunately we remember our sins (God does not). I have learned recently that we must not revisit the "Old man", which died when we received Christ and became a new creature. It is a form of resurrecting the dead "Old man", which is delving directly into spiritualism (talking to the dead). Here is where the rubber meets the road, we abide in Christ as He dwells in us. Mercy adounds were merit failed.

      Maranatha

      (12)
    • Hi Gaynor

      These are indeed very important questions and issues that you raise.

      As a start point to the conversation, what do you feel God should have done to Paul in terms of holding him accountable?

      And how/why would it help you to feel better about things if God had done that to Paul?

      (4)
      • As there is no narrative in the bible that Paul was apologetic to the people he hurt.

        So I guess that in my mind I would be God should have struck Paul down but that’s my thoughts. For some reason God used Paul but it seems unjust.

        (2)
        • Thanks for your response Gaynor.

          So, are you saying that if someone isn’t apologetic/remorseful/repentant and God then blesses them instead of punishing them, then that doesn’t seem fair/just?

          If so, are there other people in the bible that you see this happening to as well or just Paul?

          And what about in your life - have you seen people who seem to have been treated this way?

          (I ask these questions so my responses can be more specific to what you see/feel because it is an important issue that a lot of people struggle with).

          (5)
          • Phil, yes you got it spot on.

            I’m not sure I know of anyone else in the bible who was like that.

            But part of forgiveness is repentance and in repentance is restitution. If God forgives even the worst sinner and there is no restitution yes that seems unfair.

            It goes contrary with God saying vengeance is mine etc etc. It appears that the victim or victims don’t have any justice.

            (1)
          • You are correct Gaynor about the role of repentance and restitution. There are 3 ‘aspects’ to forgiveness and all are necessary for it to actually ‘work’/become reality. The first aspect is that God offers forgiveness as a grace-based gift (eg Luke 23:34).

            The second aspect is that we will not benefit from this gift unless we receive/embrace it. And we will not receive/embrace it until we recognise our need for it. And we will not genuinely recognise our need for it until we have reached the point of awareness of what we have actually done. And we will not reach the point of awareness of what we have actually done until we realise the impact our ‘behaviour’ has had upon someone else.

            The third aspect is that genuine forgiveness manifests itself in acknowledgment, apology, restitution and willingly submitting to and embracing responsibility for accountability to lay down a fresh track-record of trust. If can’t not if it is actually genuine.

            Forgiveness is not some kind of magic that makes things go away - despite many people mistakenly believing it does. Like all other phenomena within the kingdom of God, forgiveness is a reality-based process. There can be no ‘faking’ a reality and this is why God looks on the ‘heart’ (1 Sam 16:7) because that is where genuineness or not is revealed (1 Cor 4:5).

            This is why God revealed in Ex 34:7 that He could not clear the guilty - because everything in His Kingdom is reality-based. So, the only way Paul would have genuine forgiveness is to have genuinely been remorseful and made restitution where such was possible.

            With regard to their being no explicit narrative regarding Paul expressing apology, there is mention of his acknowledgment of what he had done and the degree to which it weighed upon him in 1 Cor 15:9,10. There are also the curious verses in Acts 9:15, 16. Then too, as Pramod Hansdak has mentioned, Paul wrote considerably about forgiveness. So, either Paul was genuine, or he was a hypocrite. And if he was a hypocrite in this, then as the most included writer of the NewTestament, the New Testament would be called into doubt. So, we each would need to come to a conclusion for ourselves regarding Paul’s genuineness.

            If you haven’t had a chance to see the recent film “Paul, Apostle of Christ”, I would suggest considering seeing it. It is a confronting film, but I personally believe it portrays Paul very well - including the impact that his former life had upon him throughout his life and how it reshaped him from someone who willingly persecuted and killed others to someone who willingly submitted to persecution and the threat of death in order to devot his life to helping others.

            Bottom line is that either God is just in reality, or He isn’t. And that is the core issue/question underpinning what is referred to within Adventism as the Great Controversy.

            So your questions are very important and well worth asking.

            There is still also the matter of the concept of justice which from God’s perspective is different than from our perspective, but I won’t go into that at the moment because this is already a long comment.

            So, if you have any further questions or concerns regarding anything I have said, please ask. What I have written above is the outcome of my long searching out of the same questions and concerns that you have raised. It takes time and reflection for us to get our heads (and hearts) around this stuff.

            (3)
        • A disciple of Christ must always take a charitable view of others.
          There is no reason to assume that Paul, who wrote words such as “Be ye kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you” would refrain from forgiving others.

          In fact, there is evidence in Scriptures that he made reconciliation with Mark after the dissension they had earlier in their ministry. Paul, later in life, wrote to Timothy, “Get Mark and bring him with you, because he is helpful to me in my ministry”. (2 Tim 4:11).

          It would be impossible for one to lay down his life for Christ, yet harbor ill will against his fellow men. God’s grace “exceeds our sin and our guilt”. (SDA Hymnal No. 109).

          (4)
    • I was like Paul, God did not punish me per se because of my sins. But there are some days that I'm being haunted by my past sins. I was depressed, remorsed, but with God's help i could get through it.

      Sometimes you don't need physical punishment,maybe remembering those sins and feeling remorse for that sin was painful enough for him. Maybe that what Paul was talking about thorns in his flesh

      (5)
      • Hi Elsa,

        That’s a good point maybe the remorse was worse because he knew he couldn’t do anything for the ones he’d killed.

        Many thanks

        (4)
    • Gaynor: It's all about God's grace, which we don't deserve any more than Paul did.

      I believe Stephen will be as thrilled to see Paul in heaven as Uriah the Hittite will be to see David there.

      (4)
      • Sieg, this is the thing I really struggle with.

        The idea that someone who has shown no remorse to the person they have hurt can ask God for forgiveness and potentially be in heaven.

        I’m not sure that I would be happy with that in heaven actually I know I wouldn’t be happy.

        (2)
        • Gaynor, we must have remorse for those we have hurt in order to be forgiven.

          The sacrifice you desire is a broken spirit. You will not reject a broken and repentant heart, O God.
          Psalms 51:17 NLT

          (5)
        • Gaynor, I believe everyone in heaven will be truly remorseful for any and all sins they have committed - not only because the sins hurt other people, but also because they hurt Christ.

          However, I see a key thought in your comment. You refer to "has shown no remorse to the person they have hurt." This is part of the process of repentance. However, it is not possible to "show remorse" to a person who is dead. Are you saying that God should not forgive someone who has sinned against someone who is now dead? What if you sinned against someone and that person should die in a car accident before you could ask for forgiveness? Should God not forgive you because that person died before you could repent?

          As a child that's how I thought God operated. I thought that if I died in a car accident before I could confess any sin I committed, that I would be lost because of one sin I might not have confessed. I am happy to say that as I learned more about God's mercy, I now know that God judges by the heart, and He knows if a person would have repented if that person had lived longer. So I no longer have that fear.

          That leaves us with the act of murder - where one person deliberately kills another and thus cannot "show remorse" to that person, no matter how remorseful he might be. Do you believe that God should not forgive a remorseful murderer because that person cannot show remorse to the person s/he killed?

          Throughout history, there have been a number of remorseful murderers who went on to do a great work for God, with Paul being only one of them. When Jesus was on this planet, He indicated that that we usually love God in proportion to how much we have been forgiven. (See Luke 7:47) I can see that converted murderers would be continually grateful for the abundant mercy that caused God to forgive them.

          Notice also that God recreates those who repent. He gives us a new heart (Ezekiel 36:26 ) so that we are a completely new person. (2 Cor 5:17, Gal 6:15) A converted murderer is no longer a murderer but a child of God. (That's what "convert" means: It means to be transformed from one kind of person into another.)

          (4)
        • Gaynor,

          I think I understand your concern. For instance my daughter's ex husband is really being horrible to her and trying to take her children away but he thinks what he is doing is the right thing for the children.
          So the question is does God forgive someone who doesn't acknowledge what he did was wrong? Can a person who maybe does acknowledge to God they did wrong but doesn't say sorry to the person he hurt - when the person is available to be apologize to be forgiven by God?
          It doesn't seem fair or right does it?
          This was a favorite verse of my Mother - if you are harmed, you forgive them and leave it up to Jesus to deal with them.
          Rom 12:17-21  Repay no one evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.  18  If it is possible, as far as is in you, being in peace with all men.  19  not avenging yourselves, beloved, but giving place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord."  20  Therefore if your enemy hungers, feed him. If he thirsts, give him drink. For in so doing you shall heap coals of fire on his head.  21  Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

          (5)
    • As the nails were piercing His flesh and gripping deep into the splintery wood of the cross, Jesus said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." And they who were doing the nailing, those hurling insults as the act was being done, showed no remorse, yet Jesus is forgiving them. That is the goodness of God, and it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.

      If a person sees that goodness, their hearts become broken over all of their sinfulness. That is the key, all who come to repentance are remorseful. It goes along with truly experiencing the goodness of God. The God that gave and forgives even to the unremorseful, uncaring world.

      (4)
  6. When someone in my church said, I need you to teach the Sabbath school lesson. I laughed. Me, it's impossible.
    Now 20 years later, I can look back to the leading of God.
    When God laughs it's the joy of celebration.
    What is holding you back from experiencing him?
    Today, now is The day of salvation.
    Come just as you are

    (9)
  7. Philippians 1:6 is my lifeline as Christ develops my character to be more and more like His. The transformation is painfully slow and often one can be in doubt about where they are at with Jesus. But it is assuring to know that Christ began the work, and if we would hold to Him, He will finish it. The entire process is His. Our need is to remain surrendered to His lead.

    (6)
  8. I did not grow up in the Adventist faith. My origins come from very young parents of the Baptist tradition. I was the first of four children and was dedicated to the medical missionary work when a month old. I accepted Christ at a young age, was baptized when about 12 yrs., but in my mid-teens I jettisoned belief in God and assumed the place of an atheist. I earned the nickname “Maniac” when in high school. But by the time I left high school, graduating in 1977, I was more agnostic.

    I joined the Air Force in August of 1977 and my Training Instructor in basic training was an ordained Baptist minister! He was a true man of God in an environment of godlessness. He set such a steady and attractive example for me that it was clear God wasn’t letting go of me easily. It wasn’t until over a year later that I was converted in May of 1980. After my conversion I met an Adventist who was renewing his walk with Christ due to an imminent marriage for himself. He smoked, drank and cussed, but wouldn’t eat pork. Over a theological discussion I started as the floor sergeant one evening this renewing SDA and myself chatted six hours after our shift was over. It was the beginning of my journey into Adventism.

    I was discharged from the military and within a year was baptized into Christ and the SDA Church, went to Weimar College in its very early years, and left with a Metropolitan Ministries degree (at the time the college did have the ancient languages courses, so a pastoral ministry degree was not possible). Worked with Amazing Facts in their new bible worker program for about a year and a half, got married, and then went into pastoring for 20 plus years. I am currently working in a union department as an associate director.

    No Damascus road experiences per se, but a life punctuated by divine interventions and insight that continue to keep me inspired in my faith in Christ. Drama is not necessary to influence a change of course in life. I think life is made up of more nudges than a dramatic interruption on the path to an ancient city. God has not lost any interest in the well-being and fate of the human family. A good Father couldn’t do that. And we are part of this paternal care everyday of our lives.

    (22)
  9. Even those born in the church must be changed in certain character ways. I thank God for he has changed me a lot. I grew up in church, studied all fundamental beliefs, I knew the sabbath was the right day of worship and nothing could move me from it. But I didn't have any relationship with Jesus.
    It's like 4 years ago that I met Jesus Christ and requested Him to change me inside out.

    (18)
  10. I also grew up in the church, I knew all the Adventist beliefs but I had no relationship with Christ. I was always curious about what the world had to offer, then in my late teens and twenties I left the church and experienced the world. I heard God calling me back to Him two times and both times told Him not yet. The third time I said yes. I have never looked back. I now have a happy fulfilling life. My spiritual journey has been uphill and I am constantly learning new things. Life has never been better

    (12)
  11. Quotes for today's lesson, in regard to our personal testimonys:

    "After healing the woman, Jesus desired her to acknowledge the blessing she had received. The gifts which the gospel offers are not to be secured by stealth or enjoyed in secret. So the Lord calls upon us for confession of His goodness. “Ye are My witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.” Isaiah 43:12. DA[347.2]

    "Our confession of His faithfulness is Heaven's chosen agency for revealing Christ to the world. We are to acknowledge His grace as made known through the holy men of old; but that which will be most effectual is the testimony of our own experience. We are witnesses for God as we reveal in ourselves the working of a power that is divine. Every individual has a life distinct from all others, and an experience differing essentially from theirs. God desires that our praise shall ascend to Him, marked by our own individuality. These precious acknowledgments to the praise of the glory of His grace, when supported by a Christ-like life, have an irresistible power that works for the salvation of souls." DA[347.3]

    (5)
  12. I have been amazed by the responses to my question, everyone has been consistent about remorse and being able to be forgiven.

    I thank you all and it has given me a lot to think about and reflect on.

    As a first timer to reading the sabbath school lesson and non Adventist I am amazed at the response.

    (7)
    • Gaynor,
      This is the mystery of God, his combination of justice and mercy to me and to my oppressor.
      We find in Exodus for instance the rule of an eye for an eye Ex 21:24 and restitution like if he steals a sheep he must restore 4 sheep Ex 22:1.
      In Jesus tells us to go and talk to a fellow believer who has sinned against us and tell him his fault and if he apologizes good, if not take a couple of witnesses, if still not take it to the church, if still not, cut him out of your life. Matt 18:15-17.
      But then we find Jesus saying if your neighbor sins against you 70 x7 times still forgive him Matt 18:22. Then Jesus tells the story of the debtor that was forgiven much but did not forgive the one who owed him and then his debit was reinstated. Matt 18:23-35.
      What do I learn from these texts, in Exodus they were dealing with civil laws and restricting wholesale revenge, in fact Jesus said rather turn the other cheek Matt 5:38-44, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you. I think that Paul publically confessed that what he had done was wrong then the Christians whom he had persecuted forgave him like Jesus told them.

      (0)
      • Shirley,

        My apologies for delayed response I was away.

        I se your point and though I believe it is true, it is very frustrating.

        My question then to that is this. If the Laws in the Old Testament was about civil remedies. Are the Laws of the Old Testament applicable today?

        (0)
  13. God converting Saul, the very name for terror into Paul, the star preacher and an apostle, prolific writer of the New Testament at the request of Stephen, the first Martyr brings memories of my primary school days.
    When the teacher wanted to have a short break, she would ask the most troublesome student to maintain the silence/order in the class room as the leader/monitor until she returned!
    On the Road to Damascus, Saul had already been prepared to accept Christ even though He approved the stoning Death of Stephen. ...Our Beloved Lord Jesus says, "He is my chosen instrument.... I will show him how must he suffer for my name"..Paul did suffer all his life and a terrible death for the name of Jesus.

    (2)
  14. Perhaps too fresh from our study of the book of Revelation, I was struck by the language of Acts 9:1 and its resemblance to Rev 12:2-3,15. I thought it was interesting that in Christ's dramatic confrontation of Saul, He who was now safely "caught up to God and to his throne" (Rev 12:5) leveled a charge of being personally persecuted by Saul (Act 9:4-5). Was Saul a continuation of a legacy Christ had previously addressed while still physically here on Earth (Mt 21:37-38)? Or was Saul a fulfillment (Mt 21:45; Php 3:5)? If Saul was a fulfillment, was he and those from whom he sought, and received, written authorization (Act 9:1-2; 22:5) to continue the "persecution of Christ" therefore a fulfillment of the imagery of Rev 12:3-4,13? Christ, in the prosecution of His persecutor, certainly made His case that an attack on those who would continue His work of sin-relief in the Earth, constituted an attack on Him (Jn 15:20; 17:20,22-23).

    How does a bright, religious (Act 22:3) scholar, like Saul, end up in such a dark place (Jn 16:2-3)?! Who could perpetrate DECEPTION of that magnitude (Rev 12:9)?! What truthful REVELATION can the religious and non-religious alike, learn from Saul's experience? Can the living that emanate from the present compromised human nature that we all share, ever please God? Could it be, that what Earth really need is a High Priest who really DOES UNDERSTAND AND "SYMPATHIZE WITH OUR WEAKNESSES" (Heb 4:15)? Perhaps, Saul's story is the story of human REDEMPTION. Could it be, that the High Priest--whom we are all persecuting (Act 4:27)--UNDERSTANDS the depth of the DECEPTION that drives our all actions (Lk 23:34; Eph 6:12)? Could it be that His loving, sympathy for us, who are hurting Him, drives Him to save us against our DISTORTED, DECEIVED WILLS (Lk 8:27-28), and like Saul and the former Demoniac, commission us for real service (Lk 8:35,38-39; Act 9:15-17; Gal 1:11-13; Heb 9:14)?

    High praise is due to the Father who sent His Son to restore the vision (2 Cor 3:14-16; Act 9:18; Rev 3:18-19) snatched from humanity by the Arch Deceiver, relieving us of the restrictions and disadvantages of a sightless existence! He ever remains a loving, sympathetic AND EFFECTIVE High Priest (Heb 10:16-22).

    (2)

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