Wednesday: The Whole Law
Read James 2:10-11. Now read the passages listed in the table below and classify them as either emphasizing the whole law,
the law of love,
or both.
| Whole Law | Law of Love | |
| Matt. 5:18-19 | ||
| Matt. 22:36-40 | ||
| Rom. 13:8-10 | ||
| Gal. 3:10 | ||
| Gal. 5:3 | ||
| Gal. 5:14 |
Image © Jeff Preston from GoodSalt.com
It is hard for us to grasp how radical Jesus’ teaching on the law was. For devout Jews then (and for many today) one cannot really claim to keep the law without a commitment to keeping all the laws found in the books of Moses. Eventually, 613 separate laws were identified (248 positive laws and 365 negative ones).
The question put to Jesus about which law was most important (Matt. 22:36) was probably meant to trap Him. But although Jesus seems to have affirmed every jot
(the smallest Hebrew letter; Matt. 5:18) as important, He also taught that love to God and love to our neighbor were the most important commandments because they sum up all the others.
Jesus’ teaching also shows that obedience cannot be done in a vacuum. It is always relational, or it is meaningless. In other words, if I tithe because I am afraid of being lost if I don’t, it is not relational. On the other hand, if I tithe out of gratitude for how much God has given me, then my actions are based on my relationship with God.
Jesus also spoke about the weightier matters
of the law as being judgment, mercy, and faith
(Matt. 23:23). All of these revolve around relationships too-with God and with other people. James is, therefore, not saying anything different than did Jesus or Paul: any transgression of God’s law damages to some extent our relationship to God and to others. So, it is not a question of having enough good deeds to outweigh our bad deeds. That is obedience in a vacuum, acting as if it all revolves around us. Instead, by knowing Jesus, we begin to direct our attention away from ourselves and toward devotion to God and service to others.
How much of your obedience comes from your love for God and others and how much from a sense of obligation? Is working from obligation always wrong, though? Perhaps you don’t feel love for a person but help him or her only because you know you are supposed to. What, if anything, is wrong with that?
(18)
I'm quite disturbed by the last question and confused about how we should deal with such situations where we don't feel the love but at the same time feel compelled to help or do something good just because we're supposed to, even when we don't feel like or even worse we'll be hating this person because he or she hurt us.
Really how would God judge such an act, will it be right and wouldn't it be just hypocrisy. Should we wait till we really feel the love, or when we've forgiven the person then we can help How can we overcome this 'no love' feeling.
Helen, we have to lose the idea that the Love (agape) of scripture is a feeling of fondness or attraction. It is not, though such feelings may exist towards others. How can we "love" someone (not agape) we don't know? Did the good Samaritan have fond feelings or some kindly attraction toward the dying man? No, but he felt agape (pity) toward someone in NEED. Agape is "giving to provide"(showing preference). When we see a need and regardless of the beliefs, politics, nationality or race of the individual in need, Agape will fill that need no matter the cost to our self. Isn't this the love (agape) that Jesus demonstrated? How can we love enemies unless we see their real need as victims of Satan's deceptions and we work to save them from it? We don't have to have fond feelings and this question focuses on not "feeling love" for a person, which is irrelevant. We need only to understand their great need, which was our great need before we accepted Jesus.
Agape is not focused on feelings, but is focused on helping those in need with no regard to our own convenience. What God did for this world in Christ was not convenient, but God saw our desperate need and gave of Himself to provide for our great need.
So what does it mean if we are void of any desire to help a real need?...it means we need conversion of our heart. If we are "transformed by the renewing of our mind" then we will be wearing the yoke of Jesus, following wherever He leads. He always went about doing good for the needs around Him, and so will His faithful servant who has "Christ dwelling in his heart by faith". (Eph 3:17)
No matter our feelings, the Servant of God will always show kindness, courtesy and sympathy to all people in all places, unconditionally. This is "Godliness".
You're correct that this love is a commitment and not a feeling so much.
However, I think, too, that as we strive to be like Jesus, we will become more like Him--that is when we look at others we'll regard them with tender pity and compassion.
I think you hinted at this.
Lack of compassion requires a changed heart. Obeying out of obligation only is ultimately unacceptable, but spiritual growth is dynamic too. Changing that is part of spiritual growth.
When it involves complete sacrifice, no sinner will do good out of "obligation". Believe it. This is why only those who's names are in the Lambs Book of Life will be the only ones who will not worship the beast. (Rev 13:8)
No, I did not "hint" at the idea of being like Jesus, it was my main focus. His compassion will be ours IF Jesus dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17, Gal 2:20), which is taking His yoke upon ourselves.(Matt 11:29)
One other point that is vital to understand, we don't "strive" to be like Jesus, we simply surrender. Our only "labor" is to "enter into His Rest". (Heb 4:11) Having done this, HE will transform us by the renewing of our mind. (Rom 12:2, Titus 3:5) The blind, the leper, the demon-possessed did not strive to become whole, they simply gave themselves to the only One who could make them whole again. If we don't get this part right, our best efforts will be hopeless.
I agree that it is Jesus that transforms us.
I just wanted to emphasize two things:
1. What do you mean by "complete sacrifice"?
Paul talks about people who give their body to be burned but have no love.
2. It is because they are motivated by fear that many people will accept the mark of the beast. They will feel very much obliged to do so. Only perfect love can cast out fear.
Complete sacrifice is seen in these 4 excellent examples out of many:
Abraham with Isaac on the altar
The 3 Hebrews in the fire
Daniel in the den of lions
Jesus in Gethsemane
Jesus encourages; "be thou faithful unto death..." and in Revelation 12:11 we read: "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
Complete sacrifice.
In writing about the remnant of God's people Zephaniah stated that "none shall make them afraid." Again, we see this in the life of Jesus who slept through a terrible storm in a sinking ship, until wakened by terrified seamen. If our faith in God's will is perfect, our peace will be perfect.
Helen,
Here is a tag along question to yours based on a quote from the lesson, "On the other hand, if I tithe out of gratitude for how much God has given me, then my actions are based on my relationship with God:"
If our sense of gratitude moves us to return only 5% of our income shall we only return that portion until our gratitude increases to the point of 10%, the required tithe?
Downplaying and rejection of the concept of the authority of the Creator (final events issue) and submission on our part has served to make 'obligation' a curse word. Jesus is Savior. He is also Lord. God is our friend. He is also Sovereign. Where there is authority there is obligation. Love demands it.
With fallen natures we are not always going to feel good about obligation, but love the principle, not so much the feeling moves us to act to honor the Law Giver.
The rich young ruler paid tithes of all he had, but he was never a follower of Christ.
If obedience is not based in love, then it is ultimately no obedience at all. The Great Controversy opens our minds to the issues of the heart--where true loyalty and worship lie. These things cannot be commanded by force--whether force of supreme authority or physical coercion.
Mercy! Sounds like 1 Cor 13:3. May God have mercy upon us...!
Hugh, someone once said that, until we understand what Christ has done for us on the cross, we can never lay everything on the altar. I think of Jesus' disciples before and after the cross. My how changed they were??? According to the book of Acts, they sold everything and gave everything to advance the cause. What??? What about my mortgage Lord?? Of course Angeline, you probably have not understood very well what Christ has done for you on the cross, that's why you're worried about A,B,Cs...instead of laying it all on the altar.
To answer the specific question posed previously (above) concerning tithing: No, we do not return 5% of our income while waiting for our gratitude to catch up. We return 10% of our income because God says so, while praying for greater gratitude.
Something we should note about obligation is that government and law require it. In the absence of obligation law does not mean much, and there is no sin; no just penalty; and no need for salvation. Christ died because of obligation to the law and God’s government.
Obligation is not opposed to love any more than law is. Obligation does not require fear, although one may choose to act out of fear. Rather obligation calls forth respect, which is integral to love.
Obligation and respect for authority are important to relationships in the home, school, church, business place, wider community (local and national government), and God's government. Making a choice between obligation and love is not only unnecessary, but also counterproductive.
EGW noted:
Our decision to love the unlovable, is always the right thing to do, even when we don't feel like it. Love does what is good, not what feels good. This is how Jesus lived, even when it didn't feel good, such as in Gethsemane.
At the same time, there is a benefit that returns to us. Remember that Jesus said, "where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." (Matthew 6:21) When we make an investment in a person, that person becomes more valuable to us. God knows that's the way it is. That's the way He built us.
So just love, and let God judge your heart. He's a better and more merciful judge anyway.
I have asked God to place in my heart love for those whom I did not feel love, rather found annoying and/or rude, offensive; He filled me with His love and compassion and opened my eyes to their need. He made it very easy to love them. He revealed the burdens and wounds they carried. Praise His loving, sweet Name!
Each day we should ask God to give us grace to love others, I think its important to recognize every one as our neighbor, and treat them as such, even though we don't know them. Its like a person trapped in a burning car, we don't run to check to see if we know or love that person we just react.
John 14:21 (NIV)
Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."
1 John 2:5 (NIV)
But if anyone obeys His word, love for God is truly made complete in them.
1 John 5:3 (NIV)
In fact, this is love for God: to keep His commands.
2 John 1:6 (NIV)
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to His commands.
I cling to verses like these. I pray that God will honor my attempts to obey His word (no matter the impetus) and will work it to change my stubborn heart toward His livable home.
love is not a feeling it is the state of the mind.
It not what feel that is love but what we think of people in our minds is the issue.
How well do we think of others, How concerned are we to their need?
Well we cannot not think good of others unless we keep our eyes and minds fixed on Jesus seeing who He was and is, and He has done us personally.
By seeing we shall become like him and by meditation our emotions shall be engaged. The mind of Christ shall be in us working in our lives daily refining our taste until we are completely converted into His image and likeness, able to keep the commandments without fault. Law is love, God is love. The attribute of the law mercy and justice and truth.
"... we cannot not think good of others unless we keep our eyes and minds fixed on Jesus seeing who He was and is, and He has done us personally." I love this! Amen!!!
I just realize I dont know how to love. Show me how to love Lord and bring true meaning to your Word
Add me to that prayer dear LORD!
I do believe that if you feel obligated, and then do something about that obligation, Love has a way of working into the equation. Love is an attribute of the character of GOD, in fact a very important one. Don't tell me that feelings are going to save us. (yes for the die hard, we are not saved by our actions, we are saved by Christ one act of love Romans 6:10)
A feeling of obligation leads us to an action of love. I don't see any harm in that. Now if you carry that feeling of obligation into post action of love, then that is not good. Somewhere between feeling of obligation, and action of love, pray that love prevails. Back to the 1st of the lesion, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:18. Some think that was fulfilled on the Cross, thus we have no obligation to every jot of the law. I believe that fulfillment is eternal. The law is eternal . Christ is our mediator forever. Now when we get to heaven we won’t need a mediator for sin as we won’t have any temptations put before us any longer, we won’t sin. We will though totally rely on Christ our mediator forever. Love prevails, obligation dissipates with love in action. James 2:1-9.
I agree brother John! And I can almost guarantee that many of us start of by doing out of obligation but the LORD meets us where we are until He make it all beautiful.
Just like a little baby asked to share his/her toys with a friend. It may all not make sense the first few years. When this little child matures, the whole idea of sharing begins to make a lot of sense. So until we are spiritually mature, it is going to be a struggle but that's okay, our Father understands...
Angeline,
Good comment. Note too the obligation does not change, but the attitude towards it. In other words one may learn to enjoy the obligation.
Grace does not remove the obligation to God's law, but gives us a chance to embrace and honor that obligation.
None subjects himself/herself to any government without a sense of obligation. 'Love' without obligation does what it feels like, and that may not be what is required.
Amen!
It is hard to have a sense of our love for our enemies because we won't have that warm feeling that we have for somebody that we have compasion. I believe that we do what we do for our enemies because we know it is right and we are called to return the evil with good. Even when we believe that our enemies are not going to be saved we still have to do everything in our part for their salvation thus following Jesus who even knowing that most of His enemies won't be saved He still loved them till the end.
True Emil! The SOP states that Jesus treated both His friends and enemies alike. When I read that I thought, "excuse me...!" But very true; Doesn't He cause His sun to shine over the good and the wicked alike?
Helen, we can't wait until we feel the love. I know that forgiving someone who has hurt us very badly is difficult. For me, I spent many nights crying and praying to God to help me forgive the people who caused me so much pain. It did not happen at once, but by repeated entreaty I was able to overcome that feeling of animosity. Sometimes we have to just keep praying.
Eileen
Eileen, true! It gets even easier once we learn to look to Jesus. Humanly speaking, there's no way you can forgive someone who murders your child. But if Jesus could forgive us while we had Him right up there on the cross ready to crucify Him for something which was actually our fault... Hmmm...! I don't know how He did that. Jesus, please help me to be like You.
Our goal in this life isn't to get to the point that we rely on our feelings. It's to obey Jesus by loving God with all our hearts and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.
Jesus didn't mention feelings as a prerequisite for doing His will but He does give us sound promises that:
Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” Luke 18:27
Through Paul we're told that we can do all things through Christ Who strengthens us, Phillipians 4:13.
We can't fail with Jesus on our side. He promised to strengthen us and make it possible for us to love, even when we don't 'feel' like it or don't know how to love appropriately. All we have to do is ask, His promise is that we will be given what we need in order to do His will.
“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets, Matthew 7:9-12.
You are correct that we cannot rely on our feelings.
We also cannot rely on our obedience either.
We can only rely on Christ Jesus.
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."John 13: 34, 35.
"Jesus knows all about a person." Messiah, 310. Sounds hard to do, but the command is for us to love everyone. The word "like" is not used at all by Jesus--and may seem to be a self-protection mechanism we use to make ourselves seem better than the person we are judging.
It is my understanding, that we are to show our love regardless, much in the same way as Jesus showed His love for Judas by washing his feet. We are told in the book Desire of Ages chapter 71, that "…there is in man a disposition to esteem himself more highly than his brother, to work for self, to seek the highest place…". It is for this reason that we are to pray for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to become more Christ-like and to love as He loved. Like Paul we must continue to press towards the mark, and say to ourselves, "I die daily".
In this way, the "whole law", the "Law of Love" becomes relational and no longer just obligatory. And the more I grow in Christ and am fill with the Holy Spirit the more evident will be my love for my fellowman.
Helen, I agree with Eileen. The issue of loving and showing love to another human being is a function of our relationship with Jesus. Trusting in the example of Jesus; living as He lived, and loving as He loved…that is to be our goal and objective. The means by which we gain His kind of love is to die to self each day and surrender ourselves to the leading of His Holy Spirit. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phil 2:13
Amen!
The heart is desperately wicked above all things, who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9.
So does the prophet describe a human heart. In most cases we do things in order to be seen or to parade ourselves. Sometimes we do things as if to please God. We are legalists somehow. However let's develop a tendency to love or help others out of love. We should tame our carnal passions as develop character after the similitude of God.
Sometimes when I am having difficulty understanding a concept in the Bible I find it helpful to use different words. What did Jesus mean when He said love your neighbour like I love you.
How did the gospel writers describe Jesus' interactions with people? The said Jesus had compassion for the people. He understood, he had experienced.
I can have compassion for a person even though I don't like them because I can see how they are hurting themselves as well as others and I know that they need physical as well as spiritual help.
Mat_9:36 But seeing the crowds, He was moved with compassion on them, because they were tired and scattered like sheep having no shepherd.
Mat_14:14 And Jesus went out and saw a great crowd, and He was moved with compassion toward them. And He healed their sick.
Mat_15:32 Then Jesus called His disciples and said, I have compassion on the crowd because they continue with Me for three days now and have nothing to eat. And I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.
Mat_18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
Mat_20:34 So Jesus had compassion on them and touched their eyes. And immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed Him
Heb 5:1-2 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in the things pertaining to God, so that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins, (2) who can have compassion on the ignorant and on those who are out of the way. For he himself also is compassed with weakness.
To me this sounds like one of the questions the Pharisees used to trap Jesus.
When we are God's children we accept His love AND His authority. We accept His offer to change our character to be like His character. Ex 34:6,7 the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin
The question was do we help others out of love or obligation, to me this question seems to pit heart against mind, do it because I feel like it or because I think I am supposed to do it? I have a problem with the implication that doing it because the LORD has told us to do it even if I don't "feel like it" is wrong. It is not wrong.
What is wrong is if your motive is self centred not God centred, it is not if the mind moves us and right if the heart moves us.
I say it again if I do something because God has impressed my mind or my heart to do it then I am doing His will!!
But wait there is more! As per DA pg 668 below, God's offer to us is amazing! "if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying out our own impulses."
What is His character? In His own words it is:
Exo 34:5 The LORD descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
Exo 34:6 The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, "The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness,
Exo 34:7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation."
I agree with you mostly.
What people are trying to point out is that obedience based on fear is no obedience at all.
Obeying "because God says so" is not automatically virtuous. Neither is it righteous by default. The motive behind it still matters.
Put a simpler way, if I ignore my feelings and obey because I'm afraid that God might punish me, then I have not obeyed. Even Judas "repented" as commanded by the scriptures.
Therefore love and authority are not in any way equal or equivalent bases for obedience.
The only acceptable obedience is obedience based on love for God. In fact , to repeat myself, that's the only obedience. Nothing else qualifies.
Yes, brother Andrew! Very well said! It make sense why God decided not to make us 'robots' but instead gave us the freedom of freewill. I can almost guarantee, He is not interested whatsoever in our 'obedience out of fear' but 'obedience out of love' for Him.
Be not wise in thine own eyes, fear the Lord, depart from evil". Prov 3:7
What is the motive of obedience in this Proverb? Why did Noah build the ark? (Heb 11:7) Perhaps we need to understand the fear of the Lord, which is the beginning of Wisdom. The fear of the Lord is to hate evil. The fear of the Lord is strong confidence. Etc.
If we wish to discard the fear of the Lord, we have failed to understand our true condition as a fallen race, even though saved by grace.
Why does the first angel's message begin with "Fear God..."? We cannot discard the fear of the Lord in the place of "love" while scripture upholds the fear of the Lord, rather we need to understand what it actually is, and it's relation to our love for God.
My best explanation so far would be this: Joseph loved God who had blessed him, and was afraid(feared) to offend Him by sinning. Can we see this properly when looking at verses such as Prov 3:7, Rev 14:7, etc?
Remember, the carnal heart must be crucified daily, which I believe the fear of the Lord drives us to do, being the "beginning of wisdom". Yet we are never afraid of Him who has saved us and loves us enough to sacrifice His most costly Gift "while we were yet sinners". Like Joseph, we "fear" to bring sorrow or shame to our Loving Father in heaven, who watches us closely and guides us if we are willing to follow Him, even though our natural feelings/desires would cause us to transgress so easily. If we really know Him we will love Him and fear to disappoint Him through yielding to the temptation of our natural feelings and desires. Only faith can bring us this daily victory.(1 Jn 5:4)
The "fear of the Lord" will be the experience of all who genuinely love Him.
The word "fear" has a different meaning today than it did when the King James Bible was translated.
We cannot retroactively apply the modern definition of "fear" to all instances of the same word in the King James Bible.
The same goes for the words "constrain" and "prevent" by the way.
-------------------
archaic
regard (God) with reverence and awe.
synonyms: stand in awe of, revere, reverence, venerate, respect
"all who fear the Lord"
-------------------
The dictionary shows that this is an archaic use of the word and does not mean "to be afraid of".
Perhaps confusingly the word "fear" retains this modern translation (to be afraid of) in many instances in the King James Bible.
God is not interested in this kind of fear. As the scriptures say: perfect love casts out all fear because fear has to do with punishment.
God does not want us to be afraid of Him or to render service to Him based on that motive.
The angels always say "Fear not." As the synonyms say, He much prefers that His sacrifice begets love in our hearts for Him--a love that will drive all obedience, respect, reverence, awe etc.
Andrew, check out the Greek/Hebrew word translated as fear in nearly every case you can find. The translators for King James were giving to the English speaking world the Living Word of God, and I believe God's hand was guiding them so you and I could have it close to the original meaning. Otherwise, what hope have we?
Example A: from Revelation 14:7, "Fear(phobeo: dread, terrified, afraid, etc)God and keep His commandments..."
Example B: Proverbs 3:7, "...fear (yare: affright) the Lord, depart from evil..."
Obviously with the verses I mentioned before and many others, we can place the correct understanding due to context, with any word that has more than one meaning. Greek and Hebrew are somewhat ambiguous languages that are defined in the context of the statement where a word is used.
With all that is revealed in scripture about the incident, do you believe Abraham was frightened of God, and thus compelled to sacrifice Isaac? Gen 22:12 says: "Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest(yare: afraid, fearful) God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me."
Abraham had come to trust God completely and believed in His "exceeding great and precious promises". So there must be a correct way to understand such words in these contexts of "fear God" without taking it to be terrified of Him. As I stated above, I believe it to define being afraid to disappoint Him or betray His trust. That is my "fear" at least. I am not afraid of God who has proved His everlasting love unequivocally. Remember, "...and none shall make them afraid". (Zeph 3:13) Doesn't that include God?
By the way, when Jesus said "it is I; be not afraid." it is the same word; phobeo. So the context has to define the meaning of the same word differently couldn't we say? Jesus says don't be afraid(phobeo), yet the last message to the world says "Fear(phobeo) God..." who tells us "Fear(yare) not, for I have redeemed you". (Isa 43:1)
I believe context gives us the true meaning every time.
Do you have scripture to support your conclusion Andrew?
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
1John 4:18
Andrew, I can appreciate your point of view and what you say is how modern Christianity views the word "fear." The problem is that we have to go back to the original Greek and when we do we find that the word used is "phobos" from which we get the various forms of phobia in English that means a fear of something. The trouble is that we tend to understand that word within the confines of our own culture and beliefs and it seems that sometimes liberties are taken in translation that probably shouldn't be taken. Nevertheless, there does seem to me to be verses using that word that should be understood to mean respect rather than fear as we understand the word today.
While 1 Jn 4:18 is absolutely true we need to recognize that we are not perfect and live in a very imperfect environment where sin rules. To me it is the same as Jesus saying "be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect"(Matt. 5:48 NKJ), but we do know, don't we, that no one except Jesus has ever been perfect yet the command remains because it is consistent with the demand of the ten commandments which are a transcript of God's character. So I think the verse is ideal but I live in the reality of a sinful nature that basically doesn't know what love is. Whether we wish to admit it or not we fear because of consequences (just check yourself out when a police officer is behind you in traffic, tell me you don't check the speedometer under those circumstances) and the greatest consequence of all is what happens at the end of the millennium.
Fear is a God given quality of creatures that causes them to flee from danger. If it were not there then we would probably do some very reckless things, even to the point of death. So I have come to understand "the fear of the Lord" as being more than just a matter of respect. It is more like honest fear of doing something God has definitely commanded us not to do. With this in mind I really don't know how to understand Matt. 10:28 any other way, "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (NKJV, phobos is used in both instances where it is translated "fear").
Don't we have a dilemma here? We read in 1 John 4:18, "he that feareth (phobeo) is not made perfect in love" while reading in Revelation 14:7 "Fear (phobeo) God and give glory to Him,..."
Prov 3:7 "fear(yare) the Lord, depart from evil,..." and from Isa 43:1, "Fear(yare) not for I have redeemed you,..."
So what can we conclude?
"So what can we conclude?" Well, I can't speak for everyone but I think one conclusion is that you and Andrew are at two opposite poles of a continuum and that the best place is in the middle. Fear has a part to play but the ultimate goal is love and respect. That is what we should be working toward.
Robert, Andrew was referring to the meaning of "fear" in the English language. The way it was used in some of the texts mentioned would today be translated differently, and Andrew did give the more modern meaning:
By what you wrote, Robert, it seems to me that you see things much the same way.
Dear sister Shirley, "...doing it because the LORD has told us to do it even if I don't feel like may not be necessarily wrong, but I can almost guarantee that God loves a cheerful giver:-)
He prefers that we do it out of love versus out of obligation. The same reason He has promised to write His laws in our hearts, so that it is all natural.
Your spouse would be glad to know that you did something for him out of love on his birthday versus finding out that it was actually burdensome on your part.
Hi Angeline,
You are correct, however you misunderstood me.
My point is that God appreciates us obeying Him whether it is because we love Him and we do it out of principle or whether we love Him and do it because we feel like doing it.
Our motive is love to God put our motor to put it into action can either be principle - will - mind or it can be feeling.
It is not necessary to work up a warm feeling towards a person before we help them.
Agape love is a principle not a feeling.
You're correct. In both cases the motive is love. But God does prefer that we understand His ways and He is quite happy to show us when we are able to understand and appreciate it.
Amen!Thanks Shirley!
Amen sister Shirley! Thanks for the clarification & I agree that sometimes we obey even if we don’t feel like. We obey because we love Him(John 14:15). He then meets us where we are and continues to work with us … when the fruit of the Holy Spirit is implanted in us, our obedience becomes a natural and a joyful experience.
First of all, the difference between working out of gratitude verses obligation is as follows;
Obligation – will do everything required in order to avoid consequences.
Gratitude – will do more than the minimum required out of love and appreciation for what has already been done.
Working out of obligation tends to become burdensome to the doer. For example; returning a faithful tithe or paying taxes in order to avoid condemnation for not doing means that the doer’s motive is simply out of fear. Working out of love, on the other hand, is joyful to the doer. For example; returning a faithful tithe in order to support the gospel commission of the Savior who gave all just for me, means the doer’s motive is simply out of thanksgiving.
Angeline, could we say gratitude is of faith and obligation is of works? Not only is obligation a burden, but it will seek the minimal "legal" requirement, and without love(agape) our lives will be like sounding brass or noisy cymbals. No one will be drawn to Jesus and God will not be glorified. We will then be unable to give the 3 angel's messages since they are more about demonstration than mere words.
Obligation feels it has done too much when asked for more, while gratitude(faith) feels it can't do enough and looks for every opportunity to help, willing to spend and be spent.
Very well put brother Robert!
Worse yet Sis Angeline, in order to get rid of that burdensome feeling, people who obey out of obligation can often begin to adopt a "works" mentality where they believe that their obedience entitles them to salvation; or that it "scores points" towards eternal life.
Brother Andrew, very true! Unfortunately, I've been there & done that!!! There's nothing as horrible as trying to walk a Christian way with a checklist (wondering whether or not you've earned enough points to get you through). I'm so thankful to Jesus for getting out of that experience.
Robert Whiteman asked, regarding the conflict (on surface reading) between 1 John 4:18 and Revelation 14:7, "So what can we conclude?" As I read the context, 1 John emphasizes the confidence that believers have with God because they are living a life of obedience (e.g. 1 John 3:22). In light of that relationship, there is no expectation of punishment, and in that respect there is no fear. The context of Revelation 14:7 is that of worship of the Creator of heaven and earth, etc. If we approach a powerful earthly ruler with a sense of awe, ought we not have more, much more awe as we approach the one who not only rules the universe but spoke it into existence? If it were not for His invitation, I would not presume to think that I, with my sinful nature, could enter His presence. (The contexts of Proverbs 3:7 and Isaiah 41:3 have similar contrasts.)
Herein lies the mystery of truth, being a combination of points of emphasis, none of which is complete in itself.
Amen brother John! Very well put!