Wednesday: The Second Angel’s Message
The second angel’s message announces the fall, or apostasy, of Babylon and identifies it as a false religious system. In Revelation 17:5, “Babylon is said to be ‘the mother of harlots’. By her daughters must be symbolized churches that cling to her doctrines and traditions, and follow her example of sacrificing the truth and the approval of God, in order to form an unlawful alliance with the world”. – Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, pages 382, 383.
Read Revelation 14:8 along with Revelation 18:2 and Isaiah 21:9. The twofold repetition of the word “fallen” points to Babylon’s progressive apostasy and signifies the certainty of her full moral collapse. Babylon is described as already fallen, but her fall is also described as future. Why is that?
Image © Phil McKay
The end-time Babylon in Revelation is a union of false religious systems that includes Roman Catholicism and apostate Protestantism. These will put themselves into the service of Satan against God’s people (see Rev. 13:11-18, Rev. 16:13, Rev. 17:5). This apostate religious union will manifest the arrogance of ancient Babylon in exalting itself above God and will seek to take His place in this world. The message of the second angel warns God’s people that this wicked system will depart further and further from the truth in consequence of her refusal of the light of the end-time gospel message. Only when “the union of the church with the world shall be fully accomplished throughout Christendom, will the fall of Babylon be complete”. – Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 390.
Read again Revelation 14:8 along with Revelation 17:2 and Revelation 18:3. How does Babylon make the world drink of the wine of her fornication? What does this wine symbolize?
Revelation chapter 17 pictures end-time Babylon as a harlot making people on earth drunk with her wine of immorality (Rev. 17:2).
The wine of Babylon refers to the false teachings and false gospel offered by this apostate religious system. Today, as many Protestant churches, in fulfillment of Bible prophecy, rapidly erase the differences that once separated them from the Roman Catholic Church and turn away from biblical truth, we witness the corrupting influence of Babylon’s wine amongst the professed body of Christ: theistic evolution, which is implicitly contrasted with the reference to Creation in the first angel’s message; theological traditions replacing sola Scriptura; revised ethics abandoning biblical definitions of gender, marriage, and so forth. Intoxicated people cannot think clearly. As the people become spiritually inebriated by Babylon’s wine, Babylon will seduce them into worshiping the sea beast and receiving the mark of the beast.
(41)
This week any newspaper or current affairs TV program will give you an analysis of the state of the Roman Catholic Church. The trial of Cardinal George Pell has been a watershed moment and has unleashed a torrent of commentary from the secular press about the duplicity of the Church's hierarchy. While the verdict has to go through the appeals process and he may yet be acquitted, the Royal Commission and subsequent trial have revealed the Church's obsession with its name and consequent lack of compassion to the vulnerable and abused.
We should be careful not to try and make moral capital out of the event. Those who do so are often at risk themselves. Secondly, the purpose of the Second Angel's message is to remind us that we are living in a time when we are to preach (live) the Gospel in earnest to prepare others for the Second Coming.
Now is not the time to say "We told you so!", but to reach out with compassion to hurting Christians who are trying to hang on to their faith by their fingernails.
Others making “moral capital” from a demon possessed church leader is less concerning to me than listening and supporting the children he and his band of terrorists exploited in the most evil of ways.
Yes, there is redemption through the blood of Jesus for the worst of criminals, but it starts with remorse which has not been forthcoming. Adding salt into wounds that are often raw for the rest of a child’s life.
In our "kindness", we cannot overlook the urgent nature of this 2nd angel, which speaks of a fixed departure from God through refusing to repent. There are times when the stark reality is needed(such as Jonah's message) to lead sinners to repentance. This was the focus of Jesus' message(Mark 1:15) to sinners, for without repentance, all the mercy, grace, and love of God is meaningless. God states clearly that "the soul that sins will die", but He says it to bring the sinner to the reality of their perilous condition, to save them, not to condemn(sinners condemn themselves).
Well said Maurice!
Wednesday’s lesson clearly states that Saturday is the seventh-day Sabbath and there is a false Sabbath we should avoid.
Samoa and Tonga, along with 3 other Pacific Island Church entities will now be studying a quarterly that does not include this statement. Why? They believe theirs is a “unique situation” where Sunday is the seventh day Sabbath.
So, elect as we think we might believe we are, the Seventh-day Adventist Church (Laodicea) has been deceived into a double-minded, neither cold nor hot, wavering between two opinions, like Mt Carmel’s showdown with Elijah exposed.
All other rationale presented by proponents of Sunday sacredness has been thoroughly debunked by simple Bible study. Hence the millions of Adventists who’ve cast their lot with this movement. But Satan has a raft of datelines, meridians, theologians, and apathetic members, who forget the Bereans, but have succeeded in deceiving the very elect. “Too complicated,” is not a reason to ignore Sunday observance by people calling themselves Seventh-day Adventist. 7 years of prompting has not moved our Church’s administration or theology departments from accepting Sunday observance in our Church, yet our message, as seen in Wednesday’s lesson, is still that Saturday is the Sabbath and Sunday is the counterfeit.
Tonga’s SDA Church has flown its national colors at GC Sessions for over a century, all while being a Sunday keeping Church.
Will this pass muster in the hour of God’s judgment?
John, since you don't give any background, your comment only appear strange. "What is he talking about?" I can imagine ur readers thinking ... and then passing on to another comment.
To the rest of our readers, I will say that John has been involved in supporting Seventh-day Adventists keeping the local seventh day in Samoa for many years now. "The Samoan Sabbath Dilemma" was the post that brought up the subject on Sabbath School Net back in January 2012. That post has had more comments and more views than any other article on this site. The site, SabbathIssues was put up to help deal with that and other Sabbath issues, and this was the first page of posts. Interested readers can explore the issue there and leave comments - hopefully to support Sabbath keepers in Samoa.
You also mention Tonga. The issue there is that the Adventist missionaries who first landed there were confused about the dateline and were delighted to find that the islanders were already all keeping the Sabbath! The backstory is that Sunday-keeping missionaries at the time called Sunday "the Sabbath." And Tonga even now has draconian "Sabbath laws" pertaining to behavior on Sunday. Real example I found: If a neighbor peeks through your window on Sunday and sees you playing checkers with the family, he can report you, and you will be fined for "Sabbath breaking." But that's trivial. More serious issues arise when a ship is in distress at sea and the coast guard boat is not sufficiently fueled to help but is not allowed to buy fuel on "Sabbath" without a special dispensation, which takes an excessive amount of time, as is usual for red tape anywhere. Tragedies have ensued.
In this Tongan "Sabbath laws" environment, picture first-day-keeping Seventh-day Adventists being confronted with the idea that the real Sabbath really is Saturday, which is a business day for everyone else. Imagine the sacrifice involved and the danger of being cited for Sabbath breaking on Sunday. Nevertheless, I understand that there is currently a small group of Seventh-day Adventists keeping the local seventh day of the week, rather than the first day. Please pray for them as well as their seventh-day-keeping brothers and sisters in Samoa where most of the official Seventh-day Adventist Church is worshiping on Sunday, along with the Methodists, the Baptists, the Catholics, etc.
I am for supporting conscience without condemning either side on the challenging issues Samoa faces with the governmental change of the Dateline. Does the arrival of SDA's permanently set the dateline? What of the dates that changed when the timeline was adjusted before SDA's arrived? That is a part of the history I would be interested in knowing.
I agree with you, Kevin, that it is not for us to condemn conscientious choices. That goes for all Sunday keepers. But should that keep us from teaching the truth?
Keeping the seventh day of the week as Sabbath did prevent Samoan Adventists from enjoying some of the sports and other social activities that occurred on Friday evening and Sabbath. Now they can participate with a clear conscience, if they really believe that Sunday is the new Sabbath. Some onlookers have suggested that when Sunday laws come into effect in the rest of the world, Seventh-day Adventists can flee to Samoa and the Tongan islands. I suspect that was tongue-in-cheek, but one never knows.
The seventh-day Sabbath has always been a mark of distinction for God's people, and I don't believe that has changed. In fact, there are strong hints in Revelation that it will play a crucial role at the very end.
Where does that leave our Tongan and Samoan brothers and sisters if we don't teach the (common-sense) truth that the Sabbath is the seventh day of the local week, not the seventh day of the week from the other side of the date line?
Unfortunately Samoan Adventists were not left to make their own choice re keeping Sabbath after the move of the dateline back to its original position in the late 1800's. Instead, a small team of division-level men, armed with PowerPoint slides to demonstrate conclusively that Sunday would be the new Sabbath traveled around the churches in Samoa shortly before the official move of the dateline. There was no time for careful thought and discussion, even though the government had announced the change many months earlier. (I know enough Samoan Seventh-day Adventists to be confident that they could have made the decision on their own without division "help." And they would not likely have chosen Sunday keeping.)
The chief resistance to the division-level push came from descendants of the first local converts who suffered greatly for their decision to keep Sabbath on the seventh day on an island nation with existing "Sabbath" (Sunday) laws. They included local "matai" or chiefs, although some of them are now mainly settled in Australia. They are still the core of the current seventh-day Sabbath-keeping group. They were literally persecuted by Sunday-keeping Adventists, and preachers who came to Samoa from Australia were not so subtly threatened with the loss of their jobs. Consequently, only retired pastors felt it safe to come and support the small group of Sabbath keepers.
(I have personal contact with one former mission president who was set to put in motion a change of the day of worship to the seventh day of the week in the Tongan islands. But he became very ill and had to resign his position. And no one followed through. There have been others with such intentions, but the issue was never pursued. There seems to be a lack of will at the division level. You can gain a more comprehensive picture at the Sabbath Issues site.))
Thank you for the explanation of the trouble. It seems local week time should govern, but when that time has shifted, knocking the rhythm of time out of whack, what does one do? I can see how this would be a major issue and it would be difficult to see the fact that the IDL is manmade and prone to changing aiding in how to decide what day you will keep or not. Very challenging, indeed.
Thanks for the reply, Kevin. I believe most people (aside from the SPD officials who advocated for calling the local Sunday "Sabbath") tend to see this situation similar to flying over the dateline in an airplane. When we do this, we either get a short week or a long week, depending which way we fly. Ellen White accepted this with equanimity when her ship crossed the dateline, and we generally do too.
Just before Adventists became established in Samoa, it was on the same side of the dateline as it is now. But due to certain political connections, the dateline was moved to the other side of the islands in the late 1800's. In 2012 it was moved back to its original position for pragmatic reasons of business connections with New Zealand.
So, in this case, instead of the people flying over the dateline, the dateline figuratively flew over the people residing on the island. 😉
It is a major issue for those more focused on being "right" in the minutiae, than in relationships. At the time of Ellen White, there was a movement to figure out the dateline in reference to the supposed location of Eden. It was called the "Eden date line." These were conscientious folks wanting to be "exactly right. "The Eden Day-Line Theory" and
"A False Issue – The Day-line" are two reprints from 1902 and 1906, respectively, that provide a little more information.
In this context (of the Eden day-line movement), Ellen White wrote the following: (Follow the links for context)
I found it most ironic that these passages were used (mainly by officials not residing on Samoa) to oppose the common-sense approach of worshiping on the seventh-day Sabbath of the local calendar. It seems to me that Ellen White's remarks have rather the opposite import: Anything that would cause people to worship n the local Sunday serves to cause confusion and cannot be from God. (I believe they left out the paragraph with the Sunday reference, understandably.)
If we didn't have the biblical record of the Sabbath being a mark of distinction for God's people, and if we didn't have the prophetic scenario that tells us that the Sabbath will be the visible mark of distinction of the sealed people of God, we might have some reason to be confused. But since we do have the record and the prophecies, I see no need for confusion.
It seems to me to be a very simple issue. If all the other churches are meeting today, then I should have been in church yesterday!… Royce
Royce, but what if all the other churches are going on the right day? The goal is not to be different from everyone else. It is to be right with the Bible. So it is something that must be settled between the Bible and me without me looking to see what everyone else is doing.
The Sabbath is a sign between God and His people. God's sign/mark of distinction cannot be precisely the same as the sign/mark of Babylon because then it's no longer a mark of distinction.
The Bible also doesn't help in settling issues near the dateline, the Arctic circle or Antarctica. So we must use sanctified reason to make an intelligent decision.
On this, I agree with Royce. It is simple. Sometimes we try to make it too complicated, and that can lead us astray.
William, of course I agree that we need to be "right with the Bible." And it is the Bible that tells us that the Sabbath is the sign between God and His people. In this case, a little common sense helps us to discern what is "right with the Bible." When the churches of Babylon worship on the day they call Sunday, the first day of the week, "then I should have been in church yesterday," as Royce suggested, no matter what complicated arguments theologians apply to suggest otherwise. 🙂
Inge, I understand. 🙂
Saturday is most definitely the true Sabbath! How can anyone who studies their Bible see anything different? I’m surprised that the conference looks the other way. “The very elect will be deceived.”
The date line has "wandered" before and after SDA's arrival on the Island. That is the challenge.
While I agree with you in principle John, there are a couple of issues that we need to consider.
1) The Wednesday lesson does not state that Saturday is the Sabbath. While I believe that Saturday is the Sabbath. That is not stated unequivocally in today's lesson.
2) The issue is one peculiar to those nations that lie along the 180th meridian. There is no international protocol dictating whether a nation should keep eastern or western time. So each nation has the right to choose its own time zone. That is why there have always been kinks in the International Date Line (IDL)
3) The Kindom of Tonga made their decision in the late 1800s (about the time Adventist missionaries arrived there). Tonga wanted to be on the same side of the IDL as Australia and New Zealand. At around the same time, Samoa elected to be on the eastern side of the IDL. Adventist Missionaries arriving from America did not recognize the decision of the government of the day and kept the same sequence of 7 days that they had been keeping since leaving America, Hence they kept Sabbath on the day that the Tongan government called Sunday.
4) Samoa made the decision to change back to the western side of the IDL around 2012. This caused considerable problems for Seventh-day Adventists as you can probably imagine. The issue was that you would observe Sabbath on Saturday one week, and seven days later go to church on a day now called Sunday by the government.
5) Two schools of thought emerged. a) There were those who thought the change was man-made, and that it was important to keep the seven-day sequence going by going to church on the day the government now calls Sunday. b)Others recognized the right of a government to chose the side of the IDL and they skipped Thursday that week and went to Church on the day that the government called Saturday.
6) The South Pacific Division (SPD) made the decision that the change was man-made and in order to be consistent those on the same meridian should worship on the same day, which meant that Sabbath is now observed on the day that the government calls Sunday. Not all church members agreed with that decision and followed their conscience to worship on Saturday.
7)Personally, I believe that the SPD was wrong. But I also recognize that if their decision had gone the other way, it would not have resulted in uniform acceptance either. Here we have two groups of Seventh-day Adventists in the same area, following their own consciences and worshiping on different days. It is not an ideal situation and I know that the Samoan Adventists wrestle with the problem. While I believe one side is right and the other side is wrong, I cannot in clear conscience condemn either side; both sides have studied the issue and have come to different conclusions. They are not making a convenience of the issue but they are simply worshiping according to their consciences.
8)I am reminded that the big sin of the Papacy was they persecuted those who disagreed with them. If we want to differentiate ourselves from the Papacy on this issue, then both sides need to be generous towards one another.
So Maurice, are you saying that basically we as a Church agree with those who say you cannot clearly define which day is the seventh day?
When we use phrases like, “the day the government calls Sunday/Saturday,” we open ourselves up to deception as though the government is out of line. Not only does the government call the days by their names, everyone else, except Adventists does. The calendar also does, having never been changed as Seventh-day Adventist theologians claim happened at IDL realignment in Dec. 2011 in Samoa.
The global Sabbath of the same week cannot be observed on consecutive dates in that week depending where you live can it? Is this unity?
The actual fundamental doctrine statement #20, of our 28 doesn’t say which day is the Sabbath either. Do our world Church members really think it could be Sunday in some places? I’d like to test that by putting the question to delegates at GC Session 2020.
No John, I m not saying that at all. I am saying that coercion and control over the problem has not and will not solve the problem. Those are the techniques we accuse the papacy of using. You cannot legislate conscience, hence we need to be generous to those who have come to a different conclusion to us.
Maurice, I agree with the principle of not legislating conscience. But the problem is a bit more complex. The original Sunday-keeping was brought about by something that was very much akin to "legislating," with the traveling SPD team telling the people that, without question, Sabbath would henceforth fall on the first day of the week.
And when we figure in the authority-based island culture, we have a recipe for short-circuiting conscience. As I understand it, the island "matai" (chiefs) were in full control of their extended families, and if the matai converted, so did everyone else. When Christianity entered, the people, in some measure, transferred their loyalty from the chiefs to their church leaders.
The whole system is a bit problematic for me. Do people get saved in clans, for instance? What needs to happen for more people to awaken to their individual responsibility? Perhaps this "Sabbath crisis" is doing just that.
People are following their conscience by obeying their leaders, not by evaluating the issue for themselves - with not even indigenous leaders having been given a chance to discuss the issues with their people.
I'm sure I don't have the answer. But it seems to me that the same officials who told the islanders to keep the first day of the week after the dateline move are responsible to bring more light to the issue.
But I have not noticed anyone suggesting this be done "by coercion and control." That's how the problem arose, but that is *not* how the problem will be solved.
When you say church administration, who do you refer to please?
This is the first mention of Babylon and it causes me to consider why this OT power is used to describe this end time power which is in opposition to God and His people?
It reminds me of the Tower of Babel which meant Gate to God, people trying in their own power to reach God but He confused their communication system. So I would expect Babylon to be a confusion of belief systems.
Babylon was a pagan nation who were allowed to capture God's people because they were unfaithful to Him. Babylon took the brightest of the chosen people and indoctrinated them with their pagan teachings.
So we are shown that end time Babylon is now an end time combination of belief systems that include pagans, demons and "fallen/perverted" God's teachings all supported by a civil power "the image" which "those who dwell on the earth - whose names are not in the Book of Life - who are in opposition to God" were deceived and/or seduced to set up not realising what they were doing. Babylon is also supported by the kings of the earth because they become rich through their fornication with Babylon thus it might initially look more civil than religious and that is why the whole world will be involved.
What I have discovered is that not a single entity is the danger to avoid it is a combination, I need to watch out lest I get deceived by an aspect of the multitude of beliefs of this combination called Babylon when I am expecting it to come in a different form.
Hi Shirley.
You ‘consider why this OT power is used to describe this end time power’ and I would like to add some thoughts.
Babylon (I’ll treat king and kingdom and city as one indivisible unit) had just received the signal honour of receiving a dream from God. Then to make it unmistakably clear, God hides the dream so that the king gets to clearly see that God is the only trustworthy source, any other predictions are false and deceitful.
Now, the king receives light on the worlds future and is given the place of honour and glory above all other kingdoms by God. But he wants more. Not satisfied with Gods revealed future he defiantly replaces Gods image with his own image, his own much more glorious and much more popular image. It is 60 cubits high and 6 cubits wide. Do those numbers ring a bell? Remarkably similar to another set of numbers in Revelation!
Now, lets look more closely. One is honoured by God with light and knowledge and truth. That one then slowly edges away from those “Judaizers” who gave Paul so much trouble and besides, were guilty of crucifying the Lord. The pagans around them already have a day and what a great way to differentiate from the Jews! And one can easily find a really good and popular reason for slowly inch by inch raising the one days prominence while lowering the other. Just as an image is raised up inch by inch.
So this king, haughty and proud, more stout than his fellows raises his own image in contradiction to the image given by God. The image by God recalls 6 days of creation and a crowning day blessed among the seven and given to man as a gift and a guard.
This king, blessed among kings by receiving the light handed down by the apostles and by the Holy Spirit, raises in its place its own image, and then to show how great that day is, and in who’s honour it is raised, calls it “the Lord’s Day”.
So this king raises his image high and gives it power and honour and glory. On this day you will hear rejoicing and the sound of the horn, flute, harp and lyre as all join together in worshipping the Lord on the day we named in His honour.
Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp and lyre, then bow down and worship this image made in honour of His resurrection.
“So at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the horn, flute, harp, and lyre, in symphony with all kinds of music, all the people, nations, and languages fell down and worshiped the gold image which King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.”
All the people, nations, and languages fell down and worshipped the image of the beast.
But how angry that king becomes when he learns that some will not bow!
Taking the authority of church he grasps the secular power and combines them. With stake and fire and sword he relentlessly pursues and persecutes any who defy his command to worship his new improved image.
And with each new saint that falls into his power he cries recant! Recant or I will heat that fire seven times hotter and throw you into that furnace and no one will save you from my hand.
“We have no need to answer you in this matter” they say, “we will not bow down and worship your image”.
And the king threw them into the fire, he burnt them at the stake, he slew them in their homes, drove them into the wilds and slew them there. Millions upon millions. Conservative estimates put the number at 50 million.
This beast shed more innocent blood than any other institution that has ever existed among mankind.
Then a city comes down and the mount of olives splits and creates a valley and there this king sees walking among the flaming stones on the mountain of God, those who he cast into the fire. Among them he sees one whose face shines like the sun, and his form is like the Son of God.
And the King took these who had the robes with red borders, and he set them up on thrones and they sat in honour with the Son of God.
”Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego in the province of Babylon.”
Babylon is a staggeringly accurate name and describes this false religion unmistakably.
Your thoughts, Maurice, have helped me further clarify my understanding on the topic of God’s ‘judgment’. The verse you quoted is yet another verse that reflects the notion that God’s judgment is actually very different to what is typically believed and promoted. And your mention of a Royal Commission is a much more accurate description.
The original languages conceptualisation behind the words translated God’s judgement conveys the idea of separate/distinguish via revelation of all the relevant ‘information’.
Now, some key aspects to note about this. First, this distinction is not something that is being determined by God, but rather something that is being revealed for what it actually already is. One of Satan’s core approaches is lies and deception (Jn 8:44; Rev 12:9). This is about covering up and misportraying the truth/reality.
Second, like a Royal Commission, God unmasks the deception and misportrayal to reveal the truth of what is going on for all to see (see 1 Cor 4:5; Jn 3:19) leaving the evidence/truth to speak for itself. You can see Isa 42:3 illustrating this.
So, while the typical view of God’s judgment has God distinguishing between whether someone is guilty or innocent (and then executing a sentence of punishment upon the guilty), I would propose that a biblically-based (as supported by the original languages) view of God’s judgment is a Royal Commission type uncovering/revelation that distinguishes between truth and lies/deception.
This is what is happening in the second angel’s message. God is revealing the true state of Babylon. The term “fallen” is a word-picture description of its nature and character and is a contrast with the nature and character of the Kingdom of God which is righteous, or in the Hebrew, upright. Not surprisingly, the experience of King Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel illustrates both states - his former self-exalting ‘fallen’ state (as per pride goes before a fall) and his latter submissive/self-renouncing upright state.
And Babylon, in keeping with its origins back at the Tower of Babel is a metaphor for any thing or any one whose heart is motivated by self-exaltation and associated self-gratification and self-indulgence.
Thus, at its broadest conceptualisation, Babylon represents the core nature and character of the kingdom of darkness. Limiting it to a particular religious institution is way too narrow an interpretation.
Phil, could you elaborate on your meaning when you say: "God’s judgment is actually very different to what is typically believed and promoted." What is it that you believe is "typically believed and promoted" that differs from what you seem to have discovered? What did you believe before this understanding you now hold to?
What is typically believed and promoted across Christianity and within the majority of Adventism is a forensic conceptualisation of judgment that essentially has God as judge, jury and executioner. Under this view, God makes a determination, passes sentence and then carries out punishment (eg throwing people into a lake of fire). English translations of scripture promote this view.
What I am proposing is that scripture (especially back at the original languages) supports a view closer to that of a Royal Commission where the scope of investigation and the role of the Commissioner is to reveal and present truth. The evidence speaks for itself regarding anything else and the inherent phenomena carries its own consequences (steal, kill and destroy including self-destruction).
The view you describe as "typical" is not scriptural, so this "typical" view is coming from....where?
I don't need the original language to know what you have described(although I might see it a little differently than how you have often proposed it). God will simply reveal the accurate record of every life, including "every idle word" and "every secret thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil". The jury is all God's creatures, including all who are condemned by the facts/truth. Though we might differ on how the sentence is executed, the fact remains that God is just throughout the "hour of His judgment"(English grammar, not Greek, though saying the same thing), and we have already seen the prophetic utterance of all creation as a result in Rev 4 and 5 haven't we? Even Satan will acknowledge that God is just in that last hour.
As for who the Executioner is, do you have scripture you can share to support your conclusion?
The typical view is just that... the most commonly held and promoted view. As to where it is coming from, see my comment in next Sabbath's lesson commentary.
Because the typical view of many things within Christianity is so commonly held and promoted, the majority of people don't question it. Consequently, I am inviting people to intentionally consider and question their views by providing a different perspective to spark their investigation (as per Acts 17:11).
What I am doing is nothing different than what the early founders of Adventism did. But along the way 'Adventism' unfortunately developed a culture that stopped doing this and even more unfortunately started dong the opposite (eg, Glacier View).
The Executioner is not a person. It is a naturally occurring phenomenon inextricably embedded within reality - the cause and effect nature that is part of the nature and character of the constants/'laws' that create the necessary order required to enable the reality of life to exist. This phenomena is reflected in verses such as Gal 6:8; Rom 6:23; James 1:15, ...
Phil, I am deeply disturbed with your idea that there is "a reality" that is the natural order of things with out any reference to the LORD who is the Creator and Sustainer of everything. It reminds me of the series Star Wars with its anonymous "the Force". However you are entitled to your beliefs but I don't agree with them.
Thanks Shirley for voicing your concerns.
Can you elaborate further on what specifically concerns you? (I won't try to talk you out of your concerns, I'd just like to understand the specifics of them as per 'peer review' process.)
Phil as I said - no reference to God.
In that case there has been a misconception of what I was attempting to outline. In response to Inge’s invitation for me to further clarify what I am raising, please see my more extensive comment.
Communication is a process that has high risk of misperception and misinterpretation - especially where face to face is not an option and matters under discussion are complex. Repeated exchanges are often necessary to progressively refine understanding of what is being conveyed.
Phil in that case why do you continually refer to the abstract term "reality" instead of being clear and saying God's laws then there would be no confusion.
Hi Shirley. In answer to your question, I have multiple reasons.
I see reality (ie that which is in existence) as a broader phenomenon than God’s laws even though God’s laws underpin the reality of abundant life. But in addition to the reality/existence of abundant life, there is also the reality/existence of “lawlessness” (1 Jn 3:4) that Paul refers to as being underpinned by the “law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2). That too is a reality (ie it exists) but is not part of the reality under God’s laws (hence why it is termed lawlessness). It is the reality that produces disease at a cellular level. Cancer is but one example of the reality that occurs under lawlessness producing death.
I am also very mindful of Satan’s false allegation that God’s laws are arbitrary. If they were only God’s laws because God made them that way, this would confirm rather than refute Satan’s allegation. Therefore, in order for them to be non-arbitrary, there must necessarily be a wider reason for their existence. That is also what I am referring to.
This does not mean that there is a reality apart from God like “the force”, And it does not mean that God is not Sovereign. It does however reflect that there are higher ways that God operates than we typically used to viewing (Isa 55:8,9).
And finally, I am used to sharing with non-Christians where I need to use concepts that are reflected in the natural (Rom 1:20) world to help people begin to bridge across to understanding ‘Christian’ concepts (eg God’s laws). I believe this is consistent with the principles outlined in Rom 10:13-15.
I would add self determination and self dependence as the spirit carried from Babel to Babylon.
Hi Kevin.
Yes, those terms are certainly appropriate and relevant descriptiors.
There is virtually an A-Z menu of self-based concepts that are relevant to the nature and character of the Kingdom of Darkness.
There is a much narrower scope of those relating to the Kingdom of God such as self-renouncing, self-denying and self-giving. One way to life (narrow road) - a thousand ways to death (broad road).
We study and worship freely today without fear of persecution by the beast, but soon enough that will change, and it will be perilous to refuse to receive its mark. It is one thing to choose to sin against God, but another to force others to disobey God as well. This will be the double-fall of Babylon, when they once again enforce their dogma upon all those whom they are able to exert their power(see Daniel 11:40-45).
It is the deceitful nature of sin to cause those held by it's power to persecute others who resist their ways, beginning with Cain against righteous Abel. This 2nd message should be a warning to all who cling to sin while the Holy Spirit faithfully brings the clear conviction of it. We must abandon sin as soon as the conviction comes to us, before we are overcome by its deceptive power over the soul and join those who will seek to destroy the people of God for their faithfulness to Him.
If we fail to overcome, we will be overcome and worship the beast with all those "whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
As much as Babylon tries to secure herself as the controller of her own destiny, trusting to herself, there is no real stability in herself. She is a mere specter of substance. Babylon glories in her accomplishments as something equal or better than God's work. She has striven to prove that Satan's lie of "becoming gods" ourselves is true. But alas, all her glory is destined to destruction.
We are first introduced to Babylon in this verse. Her fuller description and work comes later when her breaking into three parts calls for more understanding that chapters 17 and 18 provide.
let's remember the enemy is the papacy and the papal system which deceives the government leaders of USA and the people of world.... not the people who are members of the Roman Catholic Church
In Revelation it is the Land Beast that does the deceiving of the masses of the world, not the Sea Beast, or apostate Christianity (Papacy if you will). The deception is utilized to get the masses of the lost to pay homage to apostate faith. The counterfeit trinity is creating, as it were, the image in competition to God as Creator, and thus they claim worship based on creation as does God based upon His being the Creator.
I just started studying back my Bible and quarterly again. I read some very interesting comments and intend to continue. Please I'm asking you to discuss the questions asked in the quarterly so I can benefit more and be able to follow .
Thank you.