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Friday: Further Thought – The Road to Faith — 15 Comments

  1. It's a good thing we are under Grace and not law because we all would be lost. Thank you Lord for your mercy and grace!

  2. When we have accepted Christ Jesus through faith we are saved. We no longer desire sin but dislike it. But should we fall we have an advocate who is willing to forgive us. Lets enjoy the life we have in our Saviour Jesus Christ in the here and now and not beat ourselves ever time we do wrong. But rejoice for the forgiveness we have in Jesus to be foregiven.

  3. According to Scripture, the whole Law holds only a shadow of the future good things Heb 10:1; 8:5. “Law was given through Moses, Grace and Truth did come through Christ Jn 1:17 - “Truth here meaning the substance of the shadow, the anti-type… “Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a SERVANT, for a testimony (witness) of those things which were to spoken later; but Christ as a SON over His house - whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence … firm to the end.” Heb 3:5,6. Jesus warned Israel, “The servant does not remain in the house forever; the SON does remain forever. So if the Son makes you free (instead of being cast out Gal 4:30; Gen 21:10,12) you will be free indeed.” Jn 8:35-37.
    According to the Law the priests came from the tribe of Levi. The priesthood of Christ’s kingdom was of the Order of Melchizedek. “For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a CHANGE of Law also.” Heb 7:12. “For, on the one hand, there is setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness, for the Law made nothing perfect, and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. So much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.” Heb 7:18,19,22.
    John Baptist was the Moses of Christ day testifying of the coming Prophet. He preached a message of repentance, not to salvation or eternal life but, to prepare the people to receive the message of repentance to eternal life through Christ. Acts 19:2-6 John testified that Christ was the Light and not himself. Jesus named him the greatest prophet but the least in His kingdom was greater than John. If one prefers to remain under Law or under John’s baptism they are in sanctioned preparatory places but not in the kingdom of heaven, the promised place. Believers are transferred into the kingdom of Christ Col 1:13. Adam was also a type testifying of the One coming Rom 5:14.
    But back to the Law. Manna from heaven represented the Word of God Dt 8:3. “The sons of Israel ate manna forty years, until they came to an inhabited land; they ate the manna until they came to the BORDER of the land of Canaan.” Ex 16:35.
    “On the day after the Passover, on that very day, they ate some of the produce of the land, unleavened cakes and parched. The manna CEASED on the day after they had EATEN some of the produce of the land, so that the sons of Israel no longer had manna, but they ate some of the yield of the land of Canaan during that year Josh 5:11,12. We know that “land of Canaan” food is Christ, the Word of God Jn 6:27,33,35; Matt16:8-11. The manna is the Law, also the word of God.
    At Mt Sinai asked that they not hear again the Voice from the mountain. God said “They have spoken well, I will raise up a prophet from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them ALL that I COMMAND Him. It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which He shall speak in My name, I myself will require of him. Dt 18:15-19 confirmed Mat 17:5; Lk 9:35.

    • I hear what you are saying Kenny, but I think that the argument that the Law is the type and grace the anti-type ignores some of the key elements of this discussion. for starters, We have always been saved by grace, and the law of God has likewise always existed. What has changed is essentially we have grown in our understanding of the role of each. The Bible is a record not only of God's dealings with us, but also of our development of understanding. The nexus in the New Testament and Paul's writings in particular is that there is a realization that when Christ died and rose again, there was a leap in the understanding of how God worked. It was not a change in God's plan, rather a realization that law keeping of itself was not going to save us. The argument is really between the idea that you get to heaven by being good, or you get their because God wants a relationship with us.

      The law is never replaced. In fact speaking of the saved in Rev 14: 12; " Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." it indicates that the commandments of God are still important. Of course we would have to use other texts to show that law keeping is a fruit of our salvation and not the cause.

      In summary, I think the type/antiype argument fall short particularly if we limit it to the idea of one replacing the other. We have always been saved by grace but our understanding has grown, particularly after witnessing the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.

      • My friend, according to Gal 3:1, 17-21, if I hearken back to Law I deny the sacrifice of Christ. Now I am indebted to the whole law. It was not Law that was promised. It is the Spirit that was promised Gal 3:8,14.

  4. I will use this analogy to help in understanding this very controversial doctrine of under law, purpose of law, grace and Holy Spirit.

    I am going to assume that many, if not most, posters here know of parents telling their children to say...."please".."thank you"...."sorry".

    Remember how they would first tell them to say it because they were young and naive?
    Later on the parents would say......"What should you say?"
    Some children, being immature, would not remember. So the parents would repeat the words for them.
    As time went on, they would say, "What do you say?" and the children would say on their own the words, but only in a parrot, mechanical, non sincere manner. Sometimes the children would have to be prompted to say the words in a coercive manner. The children would say it , not meaning it and actually upset at having to do it. As the children became adolescent, some would say it in a shallow manner, or as a civil duty and some would not say the words because of pride. Those who grew older and had a mature heart/character would say the words sincerely.

    How can grace or the Holy Spirit get children/people to say the words if they never were taught in the first place?

    • The Holy Spirit brings True Love into the soul and this is how we get the right motivation of the "right words."

      • Correct Don Litchfield! If we do not have the Holy Spirit we do not have true Love or use the right words. Otherwise it reminds me of a poster at Hewlett Packard Computer with the warning regarding quality; "Garbage in-Garbage out!"

  5. We invariably equate the "Law" with the "Commandments", such that whenever we see the word "commandments" or the word "Law" we automatically think of the Ten Commandments. However, that is not how the Scriptures capture the meanings. In the Greek, the word (or variations thereof) NOMOS is generally used for the Law of God, while the word "ENTOLES" (or variations thereof) is generally used for the word "commandments." Not every commandment was connected with the Ten Commandments.

    Notice the lawyer's question to Jesus in Matt 22:26-40 - what is the greatest commandment IN the law? To which Jesus answered from what many describe as the Law of Moses - Deut 6:5, Lev 19:18. This would have been the perfect opportunity for Jesus to exalt the Ten Commandments and show that the greatest commandment came from the "immutable" law of God written with His own finger. The fact that He did not, shows that Jesus, as does all of Scripture, saw the entire Torah as the Law of God - both what are commonly called the Moral law and the Ceremonial law.

    In John 13:34, John 15:12 Jesus stated that He was giving a NEW commandment. Was this an addition to the Ten or a summarizing replacement? In John 14:31 Jesus says that the Father gave Him commandment. In John 15:10 - keep MY commandments as I have kept My FATHER's commandments. How do all of these "commandments" harmonize with our believe that "commandment" always means the Ten Commandments?

    In Acts 1:2, Jesus gave commandments to the apostles. In Rom 16:26 the "commandment of the everlasting God" has nothing directly related to the Ten Commandments. In 1 Cor 14:37 Paul states that what he wrote constituted the commandments of God.

    The "commandments of God" are specific instructions God gives to a specific person or groups of persons. Sometimes the commandment is for everyone in the world - Love Your Neighbor! Sometimes it is for specific individuals - Kill and Bring a Spotless Lamb. Every word of God is a "commandment" and is to be obeyed. The penalty for disobedience to any of His direct commandments is the same whether the commandment is within the Ten Commandments or otherwise.

    In summary, every commandment is not part of the Ten Commandments.

    • Thank you for making clear that "the law" doesn't generally refer just to the Ten Commandments. Neither does "commandment(s)" necessarily refer explicitly to the Ten Commandments.

      In our study of Paul's letters, I believe it is crucial to understand that when he refers to "law," he means the Torah or/and all God's directives to humanity. He seeks to establish that we cannot be saved by our efforts to obey, but we are saved by complete trust and faith in Jesus Christ. He inscribes the Law in our hearts so that our behavior will begin to align more and more with the principles of heaven.

  6. Every instruction by God is in complete harmony with the Ten Commandments. All are giving with their individual purpose. When people try to separate the Law of God from any other law, gift, promise or counsel, they don't realize that all of God's Commandments are for our good always. Deuteronomy 6:24 and although they have different purposes; good works do not earn salvation, etc.
    Romans 8:28 ‭‭And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to ‭his‭ purpose.‭

  7. How would you deal with this?

    "As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, not one." Rom 3:10

    "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Tim 1:9

    Conclusion..the law is made for all humans.


    "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Gal 5:18

    Who claims they are led every day, every minute by the Holy Spirit?
    So when they are not, aren't they under law?

    • It appears to me that we are lost by breaking the law (which is sin) but we are not saved by keeping the law. We are saved through the Grace and Mercy of God by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. This gives us freedom to keep the law or to break it again. If we break the law again we need the blood of Jesus again to atone for the sin and the Grace of God to keep us from breaking the law.

      Sin can be overcome by the power of the Holy Spirit motivating our thoughts and feelings. If you see a person who has reached the point the Holy Spirit is motivating every thought and feeling, he/she will probably not be advertising it except through his kind and loving demeanor.

  8. I always pray for the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me in my daily life and especially for my family and children. We are not under the law since Jesus paid for our sins on the cross we have the Holy Spirit which comes from God to lead and guide us in our thoughts and keep us walking on the right path.

  9. It is also explained in the two covenants. The Old Covenant was based on the Law of God and the promises of the people.

    The New Covenant is based on The Law of God and the Promises of God that able to give us Victory!

    Without Jesus we can do nothing! John 15:5

    With Him we can do all things! Philippians 4:13


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