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Monday: Babylon is Fallen — 30 Comments

  1. Six times the word Great is associated with Babylon.
    God prophetically declared to Nebuchadnezzar the head of gold will be replaced but prophecy was forgotten people became complacent in their life style.
    They depended on their impregnable wall as protection and the river as the provider. They celebrated to the point of defiling the holy vessels of God.
    God in one night overthrew the kingdom of Babylon. Judgment executed on ancient Babylon, you have been weighed on the scales and found wanting. The same night Babylon was overthrown.
    In the same manner Babylon the great in revelation will be destroyed and will be burnt up.

    Promise of God
    Strong is the Lord who judges her.
    God will judge her action and her due reward will be returned upon her.
    Come out of her my people
    Come out of her before it's too late. Do not receive of her plagues.

    (16)
  2. All I want is to take comfort at Jesus' feet! Every breath will be presented to God and will have to stand before the Judge, may I have Jesus as my Lawyer at this point! That's why is so important to have a close relationship with Him now. As times get harder it is necessary to become more and more like clay in His hands!

    (14)
  3. The only way to come out of Babylon is to be one with the Father and his son Jesus and his Holy Spirit and be guided by his holy words in the Bible and every promise in the Bible.

    (13)
  4. I John 2:1 goes along with 1 John 1:9 also. Only if and when we confess our sins, God will then forgive them and cleanse us from them. And these are promises from his very words in the Bible. These also go along with Isaiah 1:16-18 and 55:6,7 and Psalm 51:1,2 and 7-13. God is in the business of forgiving us and cleansing us but we have to do the part that those promises tell us to do or we will end up in the same condemnation that Babylon will suffer at his hand.

    (8)
  5. God is a God of love. We do our part because we have a love relationship with Him. We do our duty not out of obgliation, we do our duty because we love Him. If you love Me, keep my commandments. John 14:15. If you ask Him in His name to give you Love strong enough to keep His Commandments, He will. John 14:14.

    (8)
  6. Yes, we are not saved but doing our duty. We are saved by the righteousness of Christ. Parallel to that, if we keep His commandments, we love Him. He can't save us if we don't love Him. How happy would we be if we don't love Him, yet He put us with eternal life anyway.

    (4)
  7. If all SDA that says they like to have close relationship with God, can be bold enough to tell his co worker friends neighbors or relatives about the path on how to avoid the mark of the beast and how to come out of Babylon, SDA membership may soar high beyond our wildest dreams. The problem is not many are brave enough to be bold and call out others to come out of Babylon, most of SDA church members are leaving that kind of work to the pastors and elders of the church. Why is it that there are so many intimidated and not bold like Pastor John Bradshaw or Pastor Doug Batchellor? It’s because many of us still need to examine ourselves to see if our actions and our lives are good enough to be called Christian or followers of Christ. Let us pray for one another, let us pray to have the courage to confess our faith, to be courageous and to be brave to help others come out of Babylon.

    (3)
    • While we could all benefit from being "bold", simply telling our co-workers, friends, and neighbors to avoid the mark of the beast is probably not all that productive if they cannot understand the language. Our commission is to preach the gospel and the most effective way to preach the Gospel is to live the Gospel. We cannot all be John Bradshaw or Doug Batchelor evangelists. It takes a certain kind of personality to be a public media evangelist. However, God may simply have called you to lend a helping hand to your unchurched neighbor in need, to provide a lunch for a homeless person, or a listening ear to someone who is hurting. I often hear people encouraging us to speak out against the papacy or apostate Protestantism and my response as always is; "How many Catholic friends do you have? If you do not have any Catholic friends, then I suggest that you do not have a message to preach. Make friends first.

      (16)
      • So true but I don’t mean to be literally like Pastor Doug Batchellor or Pastor John Bradshaw for being bold and be viewed by millions, just in your own way. If we examine ourselves we may have been living or practicing as SDA our whole life, but have we led others in the feet of Jesus in a personal basis? I have many Catholic friends but I’m burdened about why I cannot share the truth with them. Perhaps fearing that they may get offended and I observed even in our own church, only few are able to bring others into what we believe is the remnant church. Perhaps we are occupied with the care of maintaining a decent living or maybe we are hoping for the latter rain to pour and we can finally share. Otherwise, we can just praise others who has many friends and who have a message to preach.

        (4)
        • I would suggest the way to share is to build a foundation: on a frequent basis talk about something from the Bible and if possible link it to your daily life.
          Like I have this beautiful flower in the garden isn't the Creator wonderful!
          or my child is learning so many new things every week at school, it reminds me of how the Bible progressively reveals the character of God
          Or even read Ps31, see how David cries to the Lord because he feels persecuted but trusts God cared for him and he realizes that this life is not as important as eternal life with God.

          If you have built a foundation, then you can move on to other topics with answers based in the Bible.

          (3)
        • I sense that often, when this conversation comes up, people forget about Paul's comments regarding spiritual gifts. I firmly believe that not all Christians are supposed to "convert their Catholic neighbors". First, only the Holy Spirit knows when a person is receptive, and if we run ahead of the Holy Spirit because we aren't listening, not only will we be wasting our time, but we may actually do harm. But beyond that, some of us have been given spiritual gifts in different areas. I probably have not converted a single neighbor, but there are a number of members who might not be in the church today if it weren't for the opportunity that God gave me to minister to them in the SS classes I've taught (both kid and adult). Or how many people did George Vandeman reach while I was in the control room mixing audio. I'm not saying that God will never use me to reach a neighbor, but He led me to the conclusion a number of years ago that He made each of us different with different gifts and He has more than one way to use people and to reach people.

          (2)
      • Not only are we not all cut out to be Doug Bachelor or John Bradshaw, I've learned from painful experience that someone who comes in for a few weeks and lights a fire of revival is quite different than someone who preaches to the same congregation every week, or talks to co-workers every day. We may need a wakeup call once in a while, but our daily or weekly diet needs strong doses of the love of God, not condemnation.

        (5)
      • Telling about the mark of the beast IS preaching the Gospel: "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting GOSPEL to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people." We should ask the Lord to give us wisdom of choosing the right words so that people can understand us.

        (2)
        • It all depends on what spirit is used in "telling about the mark of the beast". I have heard sermons that have quite frankly made me cringe they were so far from the Gospel, not it what was said, but the way it was said. You are right, we need to pray for wisdom.

          (3)
  8. I would propose that there is much misunderstanding within Christianity of the concept of True justice and that this is related to an even broader misunderstanding of how life actually functions.

    Consequently, I would propose that the last question in today's lesson, reflecting a common perspective within Christianity, is actually reflective of the nature of justice of Babylon (ie, retributive) rather than the nature of True justice within the Kingdom of God.

    One of the potential implications of the question posed by the lesson (and often reflected within Christianity) is that I can derive some comfort from knowing that one day people will 'get what they deserve'. I wonder if this is how self-renouncing love would feel?

    (12)
    • I get what you are saying, but the last today's lesson question is general, about "injustice and iniquity that seem to go unpunished"... not specifically about people. This world of sin that we live in is unfair! God will straighten up everything one day! This makes me happy, to know that we were not left alone to a destiny of decay. God has promised us that He will get things right!

      (4)
    • Phil, I'm intrigued. How would you describe "true justice" as opposed to "retributive justice."

      Is the sense of justice built into humanity - the sense that things should be "fair" - that the good should be rewarded, the evil punished - something that God did not design people to sense?

      (2)
    • The "blessed hope" of all who love God and their fellow man is the restoration of the dominion to it's original state of being "very good", which will require the removal(destruction) of all who would ruin this world by oppression, resulting in misery and death as we have seen on this earth for over 6,000 years, with no end in sight. Sinners only grow worse if remaining unrepentant. So yes, knowing that JUSTICE will be served by our Sovereign God gives the righteous hope, and the world as God intended it to be will last forever.

      Those who are partakers of the Divine Nature will not have vengeful feelings or get some sort of pleasure out of the suffering of the wicked, knowing that without Jesus' propitiation, they would be among them. Also, many whom we loved in this life will be among those who will receive the wrath of God because they rejected His mercy. I would suggest that any who do have vengeful feelings are going to be among those who will be "reduced to ashes upon the earth" with Satan and his angels. Nothing will remain in the new earth that would taint it's perfect peace.

      Another thought: do we understand the justice of God well enough? Can we see that by His actions, such as the flood, destruction of the wicked cities of the plain, and drowning the armies of Egypt in the Red Sea, that God was preserving the righteous and the earth? All of these actions as well as others like them, were the actions of the Author of self-renouncing love, who Himself suffered the wrath of God for us that we might be saved. Only in the light of Calvary can we begin to understand that every action from God is for the purpose of saving as many as possible.

      What do you make of Deut 32:35-43? Does the cross of Jesus give it a proper light?

      (6)
      • WOW!! is there something as a loving vengeful God? How can both exist in the same divine entity who is "LOVE"? Did Jesus really suffer the wrath of God? I'm afraid of this God. There must be another explanation.

        (4)
        • When it comes to God(all 3), we cannot apply the terms "wrath" and "vengeance" as most might understand them. Calvary, forgiveness, healing, restoration, daily needs supplied for all(wicked and righteous), etc, seem to indicate that God is beyond our ability to fully comprehend, and thus, cannot make Him to be like us.

          God speaks to fallen man in terms they can best understand. God is not vengeful, yet He promises to deal with every injustice, relieving us of such concerns. The time must come when those who refuse to repent of evil must be stopped and justice served. While God has no delight in this, righteousness requires fairness. While many might call this vengeance, God is not vengeful, but just. Keep in mind always that Jesus was given as the means of saving every sinner if they will only believe in Him(accept and obey His teachings). All who do are granted pardon and are transformed to be partakers of the divine nature that Adam was created with. The unrepentant cannot be transformed, yet the means was provided and the Holy Spirit has wooed every soul.

          We must understand God's vengeance and wrath in the light of these realities. He is not like fallen man, yet fallen man may become like Him.

          (4)
          • Hi Robert

            So I understand what you are saying clearly, if I am a person who refuses to repent of evil, what specifically is it that God will be required by righteousness and justice to do to me? And what means will He be required to use to do this?

            (2)
          • Hi Phil,

            What is God "required" to do, and by what means, seems to be what you are asking an answer for.

            What God is required to do, by His very nature is what is "right". The means may not be as important to understand if we look at a couple things.

            Look at the example of Rome in it's pagan state, where it punished transgressors of the government(it's laws/statutes) by the most cruel means, able to inflict as much humiliation, shame and physical agony for as long as possible. (Papal Rome followed this example, which reveals it's true pagan nature) In the United States, a "christian" nation, the most merciful, quick, and painless methods are employed with those who have offended society in a way that society demands death for.

            So what would we expect from God when the wicked receive their "wages" from Him? (please consider the term "wages", and what it represents as far as sinners are concerned.)

            Now we learn from God's word that the wicked will be "reduced...to ashes upon the earth". They will be consumed and brought to a final end, with no lingering suffering for eternity(yes, this requires certain passages to be explained, but the Bible's teaching will clear those up won't it?) In numerous passages the death of the wicked is likened to "an oven that burns"(or similar language), and the ashes left behind seems to indicate fire as well.
            Peter says this cleansing fire will melt the very elements, and the only fire known to man that could accomplish this is nuclear fire. The Revelation speaks of "fire...from God out of heaven", which could be nothing more than a huge solar flare, or some other means which God could create with only a word. (The symbolism is interesting isn't it?)

            God is also described as a consuming fire to the wicked, and given the dimensions of the city. with the throne of God at the peak of this "mountain", it will exceed the altitude of most orbiting satellites today, and thus seem to come from heaven to John observing from where he stood in vision. Jesus taught that this fire is unquenchable, so no possible rescue, and the results will be complete, final, and lasting for eternity, since the Bible tells us the wicked will be "no more".

            That would be the brief over-view as I have found it taught in scripture.

            We cannot consider this subject without remembering what God has done in Christ to save every soul. Consider also the empty seats on the Ark, and the 120 years of merciful warnings and entreaties. Consider also the results on Jonah's preaching and the stay of execution for those "sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and much cattle". Does this sound like a vengeful God?

            God extends mercy until it is finally rejected, and for the sake of the meek and for righteousness's sake, He must at last give sinners their wages(meaning: it is what they chose to receive), which is death.

            (5)
          • Ok, a couple more thoughts that might help...

            Jesus taught that the "goats" on His left hand (in the judgment) would be committed to the "fire prepared for the devil and his angels", meaning that it was not prepared for mankind, except if they choose to join the devil and his angels in character, purpose, and supporting his government(see Rev 17:12-14).

            God grants every creature the choice to love Him or not, and after giving every good gift, along with adequate warnings/entreaties, He will give them their desire. God will never compel love or force worship, so no unhappy people will be found in heaven against their will.

            Now in a time of war, what would any nation on earth do with their citizens who join with their enemies and turn against their own countrymen? Would any loyal citizen complain with the just sentence forthcoming?

            The 2nd thought: the fire "from God out of heaven" could be referring to the full display of His glory to the wicked, who will not be able to endure it, while the righteous are bathed in it's light to their joy. God does nothing but fully reveal Himself, and the righteous prosper, while the wicked perish. Same glory, two results. God never intended to have to conceal His glory, for it is life to all creation until that creation turns against God's love and works to destroy His works, and if possible; God Himself. Had God never concealed His glory, earth would have been destroyed long ago, right after the forbidden fruit was eaten, most likely. But God, "who delights in mercy" had already formulated a plan whereby every sinner could be saved, unless they do not desire it. The Wise man wrote of Wisdom who says: "all who hate me, love death". Can we see why "wisdom is the principle thing"?!

            (2)
        • Hi Georgia

          You raise some very good points. Do you happen to have any thoughts/ideas as to what another explanation might be?

          (0)
    • Thank you for your responses and questions. I have attempted to outline a biblically substantiated description of True justice, but I can't do it sufficiently briefly for a comment response. Consequently I will develop it for submission as a post in due course.

      (2)
  9. We are to call people out of Babylon because God is about to judge her. God's people must disassociate themselves lest they get caught up in her judgement. Except we repent, and come out, her sins are our sins. It is Babylon that will be judged, and if we cleave to her, we will be destroyed. God's purpose is to eradicate sin from the universe...if we cling to sin, we also will be eradicated.

    (1)
  10. Remember that Babylon is a combination of the Dragon, 1st beast and 2nd beast (false prophet) not only the 2nd beast!

    (1)
    • Yes, Babylon is anyone who receives the mark instead of the seal. It is anyone who feels that God's commandments are not for them when the test comes to everyone. God gives the free choice to all, Babylon will seek to enforce its desire on all, so everyone will make their final choice for eternity. No more indecision.

      (3)

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