Sabbath: Why is Interpretation Needed?
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Sabbath Afternoon
Read for This Week’s Study: Luke 24:36-45; 1 Cor. 12:10, 1 Cor. 14:26; Acts 17:16-32; John 12:42-43.
Memory Text: “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6, NKJV).
To read the Bible also means to interpret the Bible. But how do we do that? What principles do we use? How, for instance, do we deal with the different kinds of writing we find there? For example, is the passage we’re reading a parable, a prophetic-symbolic dream, or a historical narrative? The decision of such an important question of the context of Scripture involves an act of interpretation itself.
At times, some people use the Bible as a divine oracle: simply opening the Bible randomly to seek a Bible verse that they hope will provide guidance. But randomly linking Bible passages as one finds them can lead to very strange and wrong conclusions.
For instance, when a husband left his wife for another woman, the wife got great assurance when she found the following text: “And I will put enmity between you and the woman” (Gen. 3:15, NKJV). She was convinced, based on that verse, that her husband’s affair would not last!
Any text without a context quickly becomes a pretext for one’s own agenda and ideas. Hence, there is a great need for us not just to read the Bible but to interpret it correctly.
Study this week’s lesson to prepare for Sabbath, May 9.
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I have a book in my library on transaction theory and practice. It is arguably, the most thorough book on the topic that has ever been written and anyone who really wants to understand the mechanisms that underly our modern computerized record-keeping and business operation should read it. The problem is that in order to understand it, you need a degree in computer science. On the other hand, anyone who uses banks, has computerized medical records, uses plane or event booking, or any of the thousands of database systems that support our modern business world, is already using and appreciating the benefits of the practical application of transaction theory. Significantly, you do not have to be a computer scientist to benefit from transaction theory.
The analogy is not a perfect fit but it does perhaps give us an insight into the Bible and its place in the modern world. Our modern secular society has largely lost touch with religion and as a consequence, the Bible. To them, it is an anachronism. The few who do attempt to read it, typically find it confusing and written in an unfamiliar language. They need an interpretation and that interpretation should be provided by those of us who do read it and understand it.
I am pretty sure that the lesson will concentrate on why do we (Christians) need an interpretation of scripture. However, it may be worth remembering that in the big picture, we are the interpreters of The Word to "all the world" and that we need to bear that in mind, as we seek to understand our personal interpretation. It is quite possible that we "know the scripture" but fail in the important task of making it relevant to others. Just as computer scientists have taken transaction theory and made it available to others, so we as saved Christians must translate the Bible Truth by making it available to others. And we should remember that what we have to say, has very little to do with the translation process.
Maurice - Always consider the source!
Many 'students' of the Bible approach their studies with a limited understanding of the trans-formative power of God's Word. I believe that these that misunderstand their position as a 'student', use their studies of the Scriptures to become a repository of the word of God - well versed in the written word ABOUT God, but missing out on experiencing the Power of the Word of God; like the Pharisees and Sadducee.
When the writer of the book you mentioned wrote it, he attempted to provide a service that could help the reader improve their understanding of things related to 'transactions' and to apply it in practical ways - great.
His goal, though, was not to show the reader how to become like the writer, nor did reading the book miraculously transform the reader into an inspired applicant of the knowledge he transmitted.
Both, the writer and the reader/student will always remain the same, though one more proficient than the other. No transformation has taken place.
But what happens, or what should happen to the ones that study the Word of God? When they come to trust and believe the source of this Word, they will experience the trans-formative power of God's Word - they drink from it and eat His 'Bread'. This will nourish and sustain the life of the new man in an observable, real way.
Whiles studying the Word of God, a fundamental transformation is taking place. In all the libraries of the world cannot be found another book that can do that.
The power of the Word of God was gifted to mankind in the form of the Scriptures to aid the seeker of Truth and the new man; to educate him in the understanding of who he is and what he does.
We should not read the Bible to become a repository of the words, but should, instead, read God's Word to allow its power to transform us and nurture our new spiritual 'self-identity' toward engaging in 'good works' and the praise of God's Glory.
The person that only reads/studies the 'Bible' to become proficient in its mechanism is different from the person who, through reading/studying, has found the transforming Power of God's Word. He/she becomes a stronger, happier, more grateful and loving Believer/Christian.
There is no 'handbook to establish the new Life' anywhere in this world that speaks the 'language' - has the power - that the believer needs to inspire and transform him and also results in a better understanding of the 'transactions' between mankind and his Creator.
I found "7 Powers of God's Word" by Mike Mazzalonngo to be very informative. "God's Power is revealed and EXPERIENCED in His Word".(same author)
Jer.23:29-36 - v. 'Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
"It has the Power to reveal - Gen. 1-2; to refute - 2nd Tim.3:16; To reproduce - Luke 8:11; to redirect -1.Peter 2:25 (C.S.Lewis); to revive - Psalm 138:7; to reward - Heb.11:6; to get us ready - Luke 12:40."
Allow the Power of the Word to transform you - respond in Obedience - and spread the Word about this marvelous, transforming Power!
It is time for us to take off the training wheels and graduate - applying what we have learned about who we are and expressing our new found identity with confidence and wholeheartedly.
Correct Brigette
The word has power, when the holy spirit is working in the background. It is the catalyst for it to do what it's meant to do. Live within the believer. It's alive because the word is Christ and Christ is the word. It lives as he does and comes alive to accomplish his will and work. All glory to him.
I read a phrase a while back that is brief but powerfully true at both an individual and church organisational level: theology shapes methodology.
What we believe about who God is and what He is about (His ‘ways’) will shape how we treat others that we interact with. It can’t not.
For example, if we personally interpret scripture as portraying a God who will ‘judge’ us in the way God is most commonly portrayed, we will adopt an attitude of judgmentalness towards others - even if it is only in the subconscious recesses of our minds. On the other hand, if we personally interpret God as abundantly compassionate, then we will reflect this same attitude of abundant compassion towards others in the way we interact with them.
This is why accurate scriptural interpretation is important. We study to progressively grow in our understanding (Jeremiah 9:24) of God’s higher ways of being and doing (Isaiah 55:8,9). And by beholding, we become changed (2 Corinthians 3:18). Because it is a subconscious phenomenon, we typically are very under-aware how much of our accumulated 'theology' is actually a reflection of the ways of being and doing of this world (see Romans 12:2) - and hence of the powers of the Kingdom of Darkness that has shaped the ways of this world.
That we might know what 'Christlike' truly looks and acts like - so that we might become increasingly more Christlike in the way we relate to others as we seek their best interests (Agape love in action/‘overalls’) is the motivation and goal of accurate bible ‘interpretation’. This is where the ‘rubber hits the road’.
What is the ‘picture’ of God that my interpretation of scripture is showing me? And how is that picture influencing how I live my life today? And how is that picture of God shaping how I view and treat each person I interact with today? These are important questions I would invite you to consider as the context to why we undertake detailed exploration of the technical aspects of bible interpretation during this week’s lesson study - and beyond.
Phil, you are right our understanding of the character of the LORD colours our understanding of the Bible because its purpose is to reveal Him.
I find the text you quoted Jer 9:24 gives us a picture of the multifacetness of the LORD's character - He says - I am the LORD, exercising loving kindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth. It is similar to what He told Moses in Ex 34:6-7 He proclaimed - the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and by no means clearing the guilty.
There are two sides to His character expressed to humans in law and grace, and we do Him an injustice when we only concentrate on one or the other as some do. Paul summarizes it in Rom 3:26 Jesus died so that God could be just and the justifier of those who have faith in Jesus.
Shirley -
thank you for your comments. May I point out, though, that you misunderstood the pronoun 'his' as to refer to God the Father. It refers instead to Jesus and his righteousness - Rom.3-26.
God has, always is and always will be just. The power of Jesus' act of self-sacrificing love - his righteousness - is now 'the justifier of him which believes in Jesus'.
The context begins in v.23.; v.25 ..'declares Christ Jesus' righteousness for the remission of sins..; v.26 'To declare at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Paul speaks to the followers to help clarify Jesus and his redemptive work to them - righteousness because of Jesus' Faith and not through works of obedience to the law.
Through Jesus' act of faith in the promise of his Father - to bring him back from death to life, and motivated by his love for mankind - we are released from obtaining righteousness through works and have been gifted righteousness because of this faith of Jesus.
Now we are saved by believing in his act of sacrificial love.
I get where you are coming from Shirley as I used to see God as having two sides to His character. But then I did a lot more and deeper Bible study to actually unpack terms and concepts that I previously merely assumed/accepted on face value (as per our default cognitive tendency as humans). And I discovered that in carefully unpacking these concepts that there was instead a harmonious synthesis rather than a dichotomy.
The Exodus 34:6,7 passage you mentioned is a passage I looked into as it appears to show a two-sided representation in the English translation. But the Hebrew supports a non two-sided view. I shared my findings with a family member who was at the time finalising his theology studies at Avondale. He was concerned that I was picking out the bits of the passage that were suiting a non two-sided view and ignoring the others. And because I value his input, that comment left me a bit ‘rattled’ - so I went back and re-studied.
Unbeknown to me at the time, he also went away and studied that passage in Hebrew in light of his loving concern for me that I was heading down a path of error. About a year later he invited me to attend a sermon he was delivering at his church where he would be unpacking Exodus 34:6,7. As a consequence of his re-study in depth, he had come to the same finding - a non two-sided view of God’s character.
The taking of Hebrew idiom (of permission as ‘causation’) into account and the unpacking of word concepts in the original languages has opened my eyes to seeing the same terms in a different light. Thus the presuppositions that I now bring to Bible study have changed from the ones I originally brought with me. The lesson will touch on these concepts this (a little more) this week.
Phil, I also do not believe that those verses are portraying two opposing sides to the LORD's character, I believe that because He is Love He will put an end to evil and return the world to the state of only good as it was when He created it.
The LORD's Principles of Life define His Love and result in peace and harmony. When doubt in these Principles arose, He allowed free will to demonstrate no other way would produce love and harmony. However He did not give up His sovereignty. He is the Source of Life, and when this probationary time is over He will honour the choice of those who have rejected His offer of eternal life lived by His Principles of Life and end their lives.
This my understanding of the big picture, which translated means that I believe that He allows/permits people to experience negative consequences sometimes and that He also actively carries out punishments on those who deserve it, based on His righteous judgement of their choices.
Thanks Shirley for your explanation.
I can see better where you and I overlap in our understanding of the big picture and where we differ.
Phil
Hi Shirly -
I am presently reading 'Daniel and the Revelation' by Uriah Smith. He is providing amazing insights to both books and helps me greatly with the understanding of the Scriptures.
I realize now how very important it is to correctly translate the Scripture from the Greek and Hebrew. Errors place an extra burden on the reader and seeker of Truth.
May I point out something that came to mind in regard to God's perfectness as I read the author's interpretation of the Scriptures.
Rev.Ch.5
v.3 - And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
v. 5 - ..Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof.
v. 13 - ..Blessing and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Only Jesus was qualified to open the seals of the scrolls. Why? Because he is the perfect image of God the Father and will, therefor, be given the power to reign by the Father's authority.
So, if we believe that Jesus was perfect in the eyes of God (He is my beloved Son), than we will also need to believe that God, whose Image Jesus was to show to men that men believed in the Father, is perfect - visa-verse.
We believe that Jesus was chosen because their was no 'fault' in him. You would agree that anger, self-righteousness, destructive actions with forethought or malice levied against the 'enemy' would have disqualified him from being allowed to open the scroll and break God's seal.
For some reason, we have no problem attributing perfect, self-sacrificing, re-creative love (power to make new) to the Son, which to men is the reflection of the Father.
But we seem to not want to attribute this perfectness of the creative power of Love to the source/essence of this perfect love - to the Creator of all things.
His creative Love is void of all malice. He declared His Creation as 'very good' and rested on the 7th day. There was no 'darkness' found in Him.
He has the ultimate authority - all things work together for good. He places His seal on our foreheads and calls us His children, He invites us to live in His Kingdom - in Heaven first and than on Earth -.
Why is it so difficult to recognize/believe/understand that He is bound by His own law to acting in the pureness of His creative power in all aspects of His dealing with mankind?
Lucifer, the fallen one, the source and originator of darkness in this world is at work in this earth. All acts of destruction are always to be laid at the feet of this usurper - the challenger to God's sovereign power of perfect Love.
There will be a point when the Creation will come to the end of being held by the power of God's Grace. Once this point is reached, the creation will experience the destructive powers of the usurper - Lucifer, who was at one time the Angel of Light. How has he fallen - this is a mystery!
Just a few questions to add to this line of discussion:
When Achan was sentenced to be stoned with his family, and all they possessed was buried with them in a pit under a pile of stones, from Whom did this sentence come?
When the tribe of Levi was told to go through the camp with their swords, resulting in about 3,000 men slain, was Moses acting apart from the Lord?
Who caused the earth to swallow up Korah, Dathan, and their families, who also sent out fire to consume the 250 men who offered incense?
Who counted the act of Phinehas as "righteousness" when he pinned Zimri and Cozbi to the ground with a spear, which stayed the plague from the Lord?
When all the living(excepting Rahab and those in her house)in Jericho were to be destroyed, who gave the order?
When Samuel proclaimed: "to obey is better than sacrifice", to whom was he speaking and why? Did this dissatisfaction toward Saul come from Samuel or from the Lord?
Was not all this done by the same One who gave the Beatitudes on the grassy slope, who asked for a drink of water from a Samaritan woman at Jacob's well, and at last gave His life on a criminal's cross to propitiate for an entire world of sinners past and present?
What do we make of these facts from Scripture? Is our God truly unchangeable as His word claims? Is our merciful Lord and God also just, who "will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation", and at last, ruling the nations(lost) with a rod of iron, as stated in scripture?
Robert, thank you for pointing out that we can't ignore what the Word of the LORD reveals about His character including His executing summary justice. None of those acts detract from the fact that GOD IS LOVE, that He is longsuffering, abounding in lovingkindness. How is this possible? This is what humans have a problem understanding.
Obviously I still have a lot to learn, but these are a few things I have discovered that have helped me understand.
God does not delight in punishing people, if possible He gives them time to change their ways, sometimes He acts quickly before the individual leads others astray. He looks at a person's heart not just his actions. He explains our options in advance, like in Lev 26 and Deut 28.
The most well known verse - John 3:16 -sums it up in a nutshell:
God - the one who causes the action
So loved - his reason for acting
The world - applies to all
He gave - freely, not earned
His beloved Son - part of Himself
Who believes - our response, we choose
Perish or live forever - our options.
Hi Robert
You are correct to raise questions such as you have outlined above that appear to (and typically are seen as) portraying God as the source of 'destruction' and 'punishment' in the Old Testament.
It is interesting to compare what happened in the instances such as the ones you outlined with similar instances during Jesus time on earth and the subsequent period of the early church during Acts. For example, there is the case of Achan that has strong similarity in principle with Ananias and Sapphira - yet no stoning takes place with Ananias and Sapphira. The case of Achan also has parallels with the incident of the woman caught in adultery (she was not innocent) - and yet Jesus steps in to prevent a stoning from happening.
You ask the valid question whether our God is truly unchangeable as His word claims? I agree with you that He is. Then how do we account for the differences in what occurs across scripture where some times are more 'violent'/etc than others?
God is unchangeable - but humanity is not. God is 'perfect' - humanity is very much "fallen". Because an unchanging God needs to meet a very much changing humanity, it is the humanity factors that account for the variation we see. This dynamic is explicitly reflected in Jesus statement in Matthew 19:8.
Being mindful of passages and instances such as the ones you have raised, I have spent and continue to spend time looking into these in an effort to understand what on the surface appears to be an inconsistency of God's nature and character as revealed by Jesus in John 10:10 as exclusively about life and not destruction. I have 'discovered' a convergence of factors that need to be considered (and there may well be others yet to discover):
*) the nature of reality (which I have again re-outlined in my post under next Tuesday's lesson)
*) the need to take Hebrew idiom of 'causation as permission' into account
*) the need to take the cultural condition of the people at the time into account (eg the level of violence and the associated level of 'development' that people were accustomed to; the critical juncture that humanity was at, etc).
As a consequence of re-considering your questions, I have noticed that between Genesis 3 and Genesis 6 God does not appear to have intervened to restrain the inherent consequences of sin/lawlessness (other than to keep humanity 'alive'). And the outcome of this was that humanity almost reached the point of extinction with only one "righteous" man left alive. Had God not acted via release of restraint against the lawlessness that had become entrenched in this world, humanity would have become extinct and the avenue for salvation would have been cut off. So God released the heretofore restraint he was exercising over humanity (including nature which had also fallen under the dominion of it's 'keepers') and "all hell broke loose" so to speak. God then reinstated restraint of the forces of lawlessness and a sufficient degree of order was recovered. And God vowed that He would not again release restraint on a global level (until the end of time). So what we have after the flood are smaller scale releases of restraint where the inherent destruction of lawlessness arises (within both humans and nature). This is what I propose is the underpinning mechanism (which is manifest through the cultural factors at play at the particular time) in the instances you cite.
I know this is a brief response (though I am aware the moderators may think otherwise), but otherwise my answer would be a book... Mainly I wanted to acknowledge and affirm that your questions are valid to be raised - and to overview that there is a valid (though not simple) response/perspective that supports God as unchangeable and Jesus black and white summary statement in John 10:10 regarding the nature and character of our unchangeable God.
Phil, as you have shared your former view of God in relation to your present view, I have wondered if your rejection of the former has led to what seems to be a more pleasant, but still incorrect view of God? I see it almost as being similar to comparing a skilled surgeon to Jack the Ripper.(only illustration I could think of to make a point, perhaps a bit extreme, but close to the idea)
A surgeon must cause a terrible wound that would otherwise kill the victim, in order to spare their life from some malignant growth, which, if left to itself, would destroy the life, yet he is not Jack the Ripper. I hope you understand the point I'm making concerning God.
Let us look at Psalm 2, Daniel 2 and 2 Thess 1 in the light of the surgeon reference and see what we are told in the scriptures inspired by God.
In Psalm 2, the Lord(Jesus) will rule the nations with "a rod of iron". In Daniel 2 the Stone will hit and destroy the nations(nations = unrepentant), and in 2 Thess 1:7-10 we read: "...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that [chose to]know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day".
I have gotten the idea that some would have me believe that these "holy men" speaking as they were "moved by the Holy Ghost" have presented an incorrect view of Christ, Who tells us these scriptures "testify of [Him]". Keep in mind that Daniel and Paul have been in the very presence of Michael/Christ, and Paul taken to the 3rd Heaven.
Jesus is not like one of those TV dads from the 60's, always kind, never angry or jealous, and never spanking the children, for didn't Jesus tell John that "as many as I love I rebuke and chasten". And in the end, those who have believed, received, and love Him will be given "the inheritance with all them which are sanctified" where sin and sinners will never be found, and they will "delight themselves in the abundance of peace".
I believe that this Biblical view of God shows perfect balance in the character of God and Christ who died to save EVERY sinner, though most will refuse His Gift of Grace, and wish to perpetuate their evil upon the innocent, and if allowed into the everlasting abode of the redeemed, would eventually destroy all the meek and lowly of heart and if it were possible, God Himself. God had to allow sin to reveal itself before He could rid His creation of it.
God gives life to every soul in the hope they will believe and be saved. He is never angry as sinners know anger, but will be just, and His kingdom will never know sin again.
Think of God in Christ as a skilled surgeon, and the whole creation as the infected patient that He labors to save from the malignant intrusion which would take their life without the Surgeon's intervention. Notice the extreme measure required at Gethsemane and Calvary. This is God's chosen Remedy at work, though intended for all of Adam's race, will only spare the repentant souls. So what can be done for the devil and all who share his determination to destroy what is good? They are real and God must finally deal with them. Enter the surgeon, when the natural remedies fail.
I'm sorry you've been led to believe that sin left to itself die out on it's own, but hasn't 6,000+ years proved this a false notion? Doesn't Gen 3:22-24 show otherwise? Yes, God does preserve, protect, provide for all including sinners, yet scripture describes the interventions of the past and future which God must execute as a righteous and just Sovereign, as in those examples I cited above, which were direct and deliberate from the Lord who "so loves the world".
You compared Achan and his family to the woman of John 8:1-11 taken in adultery. Do you really see them as being the same? The former took place in a Theocracy, the latter being ruled under a heathen emperor. One never repented, the other confessed and repented. The former was given every opportunity, the latter was unjustly dealt with in a manner that violated the law, and had been led into this trap by those using her to get at Jesus. They are not the same. It is more accurate to compare Achan with Ananias and Sapphira, who denied guilt to the very end, and were not stoned since the church was given no authority to do so by God or Rome, yet God made clear His will didn't He? (the church operates under a different government than the nation of Israel did under God through Moses and Joshua. The church dwells among nations that do not recognize the sovereignty of God, leaving the church to work within the laws of society until they conflict with our duty towards God as He has commanded us. There is no command for the church to execute civil justice on its own.)
I hope this is helpful in some way. So much more to say, but this too is "brief"!
Just to clarify a couple things from the previous comment: The Stone of Daniel 2 and the Rod of Iron in Psalm 2 are the same thing, and only refer to what Solomon speaks of in Eccl 12:13,14. It is by the measure of God's "perfect" law that all sinners will be judged by, and for the unrepentant, sentenced to receive "the wages of sin".
However this "fire" is manifested is not so important to explain as is the result, which is not just death, but the loss of what could have been theirs through faith and repentance. God will get no delight from this sentence and its execution, but in the end the unrepentant sinner must propitiate justice by their death, however God determines to do this by whatever the "fire" of scripture represents, as God declared that Satan will be "reduced to ashes upon the earth", along with his angels and those who chose to join them in determined rebellion.
I just wanted to clarify that the "rod of iron" doesn't mean anger, only that it is unbreakable, inescapable, and final.
I do not believe in an angry, vengeful God, though He has demonstrated that He is and will be Just(Rev 15:3).
Thanks again Robert for your responses and clarifications. I do appreciate the time and effort you expend in doing so.
You have raised several points. But I will just pick up on one for now as this point essentially underpins the others.
You mentioned "I'm sorry you've been led to believe that sin left to itself die out on it's own, but hasn't 6,000+ years proved this a false notion?".
What I would propose is that it only appears that sin left to itself won't die out on its own because God is restraining the inherent consequences of sin in order to enable a temporary second chance period. Again, because connection with the Source of Life and living in harmony with the Law/s (Principle/s) of Life is the only basis on which true life can exist, disconnection from the Source of Life and living out of harmony with the Law/s of Life means that a person 'disconnects' themselves from what is necessary for Life. That is why no imposed or inflicted 'punishment' is necessary - inherent consequences (another, though rarely used, meaning of the term of 'punishment' but in actuality closer to the notion of discipline as a non-contrived phenomenon) are already what causes any and all detrimental outcomes.
All God's Laws foster Life - that is their inherent nature - and God lives in harmony with those Laws. As a 'consequence', God is 'incapable' of generating destruction because everything He generates is in harmony with 'His Law/s' and therefore produces order and abundant life. The disorder and chaos that is needed for - and which produces - destruction is out of harmony with both God's nature and character and His Laws of Life. Destruction is never the product/outcome of order.
Ellen White makes an interesting claim: "...Had Satan and his hosts then (at the beginning of the Great Controversy) been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin..." (Desire of Ages p.764)
If this claim is correct, it supports the notion that sin (defined by 1 John 3:4 as violation of law/lawlessness) is a phenomenon that would have produced the self-destruction of Satan and his hosts. So why didn't it? As Ellen White explains, God needed to step in and restrain "the full result of their sin" otherwise Satan and his hosts would have "perished" and the other angels would not have know exactly how and why this happened. If God had not restrained the inherent consequences, perishing "in the day" (as per Genesis 2:17) would have been fulfilled in heaven just as God warned would be the inherent outcome for Adam and Eve - except that God, once again, intervened to again restrain "the full result of their sin" in order to create an opportunity for salvation.
A little further comment on God's restraint. God exercises restraint of the "full result of sin" to create opportunity for salvation - a probationary opportunity if you like. On the other hand, God releases that restraint when maintaining restraint beyond a certain point risks/compromises that opportunity for salvation. This can be in the form of 'discipline' for someone who is half-hearted about salvation in order to allow them a 'reality check'. Alternatively, it can be in the form of 'destruction' for someone who has hardened their heart and is risking the avenue of salvation for others. And so on.
Sin/lawlessness by nature has all the power needed to "steal, kill and destroy" (John 10:10). Nothing is lacking - therefore nothing else needs to be added. Sin is therefore its own self-destructive 'package'. Always has been, always will be - that is it's nature.
Phil, in addressing the one issue, you quote most of DA 764 par 2. Let's see how it reads when we include the two previous paragraphs.(Though in this paragraph Ellen never states HOW they would perish, yet you reach a specific conclusion as if it was stated as such. But do the previous paragraphs confirm this conclusion you have reached or not?)
"Then the end will come. God will vindicate His law and deliver His people. Satan and all who have joined him in rebellion will be cut off. Sin and sinners will perish, root and branch, (Malachi 4:1),—Satan the root, and his followers the branches. The word will be fulfilled to the prince of evil, “Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; ... I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.... Thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.” Then “the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be;” “they shall be as though they had not been.” Ezekiel 28:6-19; Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16. {DA 763.4}
This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is “alienated from the life of God.” Christ says, “All they that hate Me love death.” Ephesians 4:18; Proverbs 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them." DA 763,764
Are you proposing that the portion you quoted would change the previous paragraphs, or could it be the other way around? Are you suggesting that the portion you quoted from Ellen changes the meaning of the scriptures as they read concerning this matter of how the wicked will be removed?
When we read "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; ... I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.... Thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more", are you suggesting that God isn't saying "I will destroy thee"?
Let's say I made a beautiful glass vase, and as I brought it in to place it where it could be enjoyed, I decide to stop holding up from the effects of gravity, and leave it to fend for itself, and in so doing, it is dashed to pieced from the fall, could I tell everyone watching that "I did not break the glass vase, it broke itself". Would those watching believe me?
Scripture shows that Jesus and the redeemed(see Rev 2:26,27) will "rule the nations(lost) with a rod of iron". If sinners perish by their own sin/sinfulness, what does "ruling with a rod of iron" signify? What is the need then? Why does God say emphatically "I will destroy thee" to Satan? Why does God own the act of destroying if in fact He does not destroy?
Perhaps we need to define the meaning of "destroy" from God's perspective, and not ours. I am not totally against the ideas you have proposed, yet I cannot change the meaning of God's words. If He takes ownership of the actions, how can we deny it?
None of these actions claimed by God are unrighteous or outside
of His everlasting love revealed in Christ. If your former view
of God was wrong, perhaps your understanding of these actions
was as well?
Brigitte Humphrey, you wrote:
I believe Jesus came expressly to reveal the character of the Father. Thus the attributes we see revealed in Jesus are the attributes of the Father. It is probably good to remember as well that the only Person of the Godhead who interacted personally with humanity is the Son who became incarnate as Jesus Christ. Thus the OT Yahweh *is* the Son, later known as Jesus Christ.
What always puzzles me about arguments that exclude corrective action in the course of this world's history as loving action is why people think this way. Is it because they have not seen loving discipline demonstrated? And, yes, even the final destruction of the wicked is a loving act. Those who have spent their probationary time indulging character traits wholly at odds with the atmosphere of heaven would beg to be released from it if they were allowed to be there. Thus God does the best thing He can - He mercifully causes them not to be.
I agree, Inge - God's all encompassing loving actions are inclusive of corrective measures to establish His ultimate goal of creating a new world where there is no 'sin' (desire to violate His law) or unhappiness. All the inhabitants live there by choice.
Though, using these corrective actions does not imply that the pain inflicted is generated by Him.
Painful correction is permitted to show what it means to be separated from our Heavenly Father and the blessings received when accepting His authority.
Ultimately, they are designed to draw us back to Him.
God disciplines His children whom He loves. His law was revealed to us for the benefit to instruct and correct us so we can remain in His care - because He loves us.
Our picture of God can have many faucets to it as the Scripture's revelation tends to give such. Clarification comes in seeing Jesus Who if we have seen we have seen the Father. Admittedly, the OT is a rather complicated presentation of God's nature. It can tend toward being viewed as stern, exacting, threatening, out of sorts towards us when we screw up, temperamental, perhaps.
I recall giving a bible study to a lady and seeking to explain that all of Scripture we need to examine to come to correct notions of what is truth. She said, I love the God of the New Testament, but can't accept the one of the Old Testament. In other words, she would stay in the New Testament for her truth and never venture into the Old because of the view she got from the Old.
Sorting it out can take time.
That's because they do not have a sound foundation in his justice. He is justice and mercy. The God of the old testament showed his protection for the those he chose in righteousness and the oppressed. The same God showed his mercy for the those he protected from the oppressors who thought they were righteous.
But to them all they saw was the justice, the gore, the ordered genocide of individuals down to infants. The idea was that little mercy was shown. Granted, I believe a careful study of the OT gives a more balanced picture, but if one is limited in that knowledge, or have only had people demonstrate the harsh God, we understand how they arrive to the conclusion.
Amen my brother
The very act of reading requires "interpretation." The word means the "act or result of interpreting." To grasp meaning in understandable terms is another description of interpretation. I pick up a history book and the letters and words upon the page get processed in my brain in a manner in which I am interpreting the message and the meaning as I go over the lines, paragraphs and chapters. Therefore, we cannot avoid interpretation of Scripture.
To gather the proper meaning and useful application takes some heeding of principles and tactics applied to the process of reading the text. I look forward to see what this lesson has in store for us as we learn to be better readers of God's Word.
Did we not spend time in the previous lesson studies that the message of the bible is simple that we don’t need a theological degree? Then why do we have to interpret what is written in the bible? Isn’t the bible plain enough for us to understand? Yes and no. Haven’t you read an email communication without understanding the writer's intention and arriving at the wrong conclusion. When we read the bible the words used, the character of the person speaking plays a role in our interpretation. Without knowing the reason behind the written word at the time, culture of the time, and style of the writer we can come to the wrong conclusion when we read the bible text.
Taste and see that the Lord is good;
blessed is the one who takes refuge in him. Psalms 34:8
The writer could have chosen many words but inspiration choose the word taste because everyone of us have to experience for ourselves that the Lord is good. My interpretation of this verse enriches my experience of the bible verse.
That’s why when a preacher preaches the message each one gets a blessing even when the message is the same being heard by many people.
Very good story I like and I got many things from this lesson, thank you.and may God bless you amen
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decisions: for the day of the Lord in near in the valley of decision. Joel 3:14.
I tried reading everyone imput the same day or day after, then I will go further to do my own research to see if it was so. Why? my bible told me many shall be deceive in these last days, also I want to be like the people of Berea. Act 17:10-12.
As SDA and other Christians, we live our daily lives how we interpret the bible. Does my personal interpretation matters? No. What is more important is, God true interpretation of Gen-Rev.
As a child I grew up hearing people saying, the bible says 'render you heart and not your garment' those words were used by people to encourage others to come to church with anything they so desired to wear to church. I silently wondered but that cant be right. As I got older I read the text Joel 2:13 says, And rend your heart, and not your garments.........What a far difference in interpretation!!! The text and context of chap 2 had nothing to do with going to church- people misused and replaced 'render' for 'rend'
The words OT and NT were coined. Today many do not believe the OT, because the word O means old, that part of the written word was old and done away with when Jesus died on the cross. Some said the hard God of the OT was one who kills people. But now they like the Jesus of the NT. The NT is one of love and grace, forgiveness and mercy. They back it up with love, grace, and forgiveness texts. John 3:16-17; Eph 2:8-9; Luke 23:34. But was that what the written word teaches?
Quote from Phil-- What we believe about who God is and what He is about (His ‘ways’) will shape how we treat others that we interact with. It can’t not.
I am not so sure if I understood you well, but it might/might not be. e.g I grew up very poor as said before. Now I am in a position to help others who are poor or less fortunate in the family. I can invite other to come by me for short term/long term stay. Money is not the issue in the discussion. The issue is about God and his sabbath and his words. Exod 20:8-11 says even the stranger must keep the Sabbath. Some of the family members go to church other days or not at all. Some want to come but does not want to abide with the laws of the bible.(not to attend church on sabbath therefore stay home and do their own things. (cook/bless and eat anything in my pot). Many times humans interpret others who are Christians according to their own yardstick what they thought a christian should be. Some might say as a christian I am too hard on others, or do I preferred them to be homeless? I say, God first, humans after. SDA can remove our eyes for others but that does not mean others will use the eyes to read the bible, or attend church.
I like the text Ex 34:6-7. While we see God as the loving, kind, forgiving, slow to anger, he told Moses to tell the people 'and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation'.
Ex 20:6 He will show mercy to those who love him and keep his commandments.
As Christians we cant be 'nice' to please others who preferred to live in sin thinking if I am nice to them they will see Jesus in me and come to love God. Live 'nice' to please God.
A text without a context quickly becomes a pretext for one’s own agenda and ideas. Hence, there is a great need for us not just to read the Bible but to interpret it correctly.Amen SDAs woul do well to keep this in mind constantly when studying. I've seen far too often SDAs take things out of context and use them to fit their agenda
Marietta Could SDAs without a context become a pretext for ones own agenda and ideas?
Oliver
Thank you for your question.
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking me? If you could clarify that I might be able to answer.
Brigitte, thank you for your input, I agree God the Father was and is just and He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will have eternal life. Satan said God could not be just and forgiving, Paul was pointing out that because God gave His Son as a propitiation God could be forgiving i.e. justifier of those who believe in Jesus.
I believe "His" in v 26 refers to God the Father because because it is the continuation of the sentence in v_25, also if His was referring to Jesus then the end of the verse should be "faith in Him" not "faith in Jesus". As you say this passage starts at v 21, and throughout the subject is God and the object is Jesus, as follows:
v 21 righteousness of God
v 22 righteousness of God
v 23 glory of God
v 25 God sent His Son, in His forbearance God passed over sins v 26 to demonstrate His righteousness
My point is that the Triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit together through the Father giving His Son and the Son giving His life made it possible for them to uphold their Principles and to forgive those that accept the substitute sacrifice.
The difference in understanding the text might be because we are reading different translations. I am reading the King James translation of the Bible. Which translation do you use?
Brigette, it is not because of different translations. I think you misunderstand me. You implied that my interpretation of the whole passage Rom 3:21-26 was wrong because of my interpretation of one word in the last verse.
So to be clear I believe Paul is making TWO points in Rom 3:21-26:
(1) Rom 3:23-24 KJV For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
AND
(2) because of (1) the Triune God can both uphold His laws and show mercy
Rom 3:25-26 KJV Whom GOD hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of GOD; (26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:30-31 KJV Seeing it is ONE GOD, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. (31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Shirley, Thank you for your follow-up.
My focus regarding the pronoun 'his' as belonging to Jesus is based on the context of the text explaining to the Jew the difference of seeking righteousness through obedience to the law versus the offer of receiving righteousness through accepting the Faith of Jesus for the remission of sins.
Paraphrased, I would express the passage to read:
v.19,20 - pointing out the ineffectiveness of living under the law to obtain righteousness.
v.22 - points to God's righteousness to now be available to the Jew and all others that believe that the Faith of Jesus has accomplished that.
v.24 - to affirm that redemption is now only available in Christ Jesus.
v.25 - declares again that it is now Jesus' righteousness that is given to those that seek remission of sins. This was brought about through the forbearance of God.
v.26 - to affirm again that it is Jesus' righteousness that justifies him which believes in him.
Thank you for studying with me the Word of God.
Hello Shirley
Would you please define propitiation and how propitiation fits into the understanding of God’s character in light of the revelation of God by the life of Jesus and his teachings?
Gary, I believe Paul explains himself in this passage:
2Co 5:17-21 So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. (18) And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (19) whereas God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and putting the word of reconciliation in us. (20) Then we are ambassadors on behalf of Christ, as God exhorting through us, we beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (21) For He has made Him who knew no sin, to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Thanks Shirley for your response.
The reason for the question: definition of propitiation seems to be the removal of wrath by the offering of a gift; appeasement to regain favor... (Oxford Dictionary; Merriam-Webster Dictionary; Wikipedia; biblestudytools.com; biblicaltraining.org). So, this definition of the word propitiation doesn’t seem to jive with 2Cor. 5:17-21. What other resource(s) may help in understanding how propitiation is an accurate description of Jesus’ sacrifice, and that appeasement is a term to be used when describing Jesus’ sacrifice? The terms propitiation and appeasement seem...inappropriate, or may I say unGodlike?
Gary, read Phil's post on Tuesday
Study can refine things. But believing solely in our own's or someone else's point of view, may turn more difficult the expanding of knowledge to ourselves. Personal new findings and ideas may easily come when we review things free of pre-concepts. That's why it is recommended that a prayer for the Holy Spirit (an open mind disposition) should always preced the reading of the Bible.
I am glad to know the Bible shows how simple it really is to "know the certainty of the words of Truth"(Prov 22:20,21). IF we go into this knowing what has led to the failure of others(disciples, Jewish leaders) to SEE truth clearly, we need only to pray for God's help to overcome these tendencies in our own lives, and ask for "a clean heart and a right spirit"(Ps 51:10) in our seeking for truth in God's word, for the promised Blessing of Jesus is that "the pure in heart...shall see God"(Matt 5:8). God still hears and answers prayer, and will keep His "exceeding great and precious promises"(2 Peter 1:4) to all who come to Him with the expectation that He will do what He promises to do, and if our understanding of God is incorrect, He will reveal Himself to any who search for Him "with all your heart"(Jer 29:13).
Therefore, no matter our past contaminations, by God's grace we will be able to SEE clearly and then His Word to us will become "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness", and we will become "perfect, thoroughly furnished unto every good work"(2 Tim 3:16,17). Indeed, we will become "partakers of the Divine Nature"(2 Peter 1:4) which "many shall see, and fear, and trust in the Lord"(Ps 40:3).
So what if our parents, teachers and pastors may have passed onto us their misunderstanding of the scriptures and of God, our True and Faithful Witness is able to give us His "eyesalve" isn't He? We need only to "buy of [Him]"(Rev 3:18) while He still offers it for "sale".