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Sunday: Covenant Basics — 27 Comments

  1. While marriage, physical labor, and the Sabbath were part of the general provisions of the covenant of creation, its main focal point was God’s command not to eat the forbidden fruit. The basic nature of the covenant was “obey and live!” With a nature created in harmony with God, the Lord did not require the impossible. Obedience was humanity’s natural inclination; yet, Adam and Eve chose to do what was not natural,

    Now with sin and death. I had forgotten God never requires the impossible.

    (12)
  2. One of the reasons why I love to study the Sabbath school lesson. Herein lies our MO as Seventh day Adventist. We must be ready to defend what we believe. "The basic nature of the covenant was “obey and live!” With a nature created in harmony with God, the Lord did not require the impossible". Obedience was humanity’s natural inclination.

    (13)
    • You stated, "We must be ready to defend what we believe." I would like to change that a little bit to; We must be ready to live what we believe. Our defense should be in the way we live. Jesus said, "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." John 13: 35. That is the "Jesus way" of defense.

      (26)
  3. But now our obedience to God is based on our faith towards his promise in Jesus Christ our Lord---his only begotten son. So our focus is to be our faith towards that promise and not towards our obedience at all.

    (8)
    • Does what you say mean that our obedience is not important any more, don't focus on obedience at all, because it is no longer required?

      (2)
        • You're right Pete. We just need to not focus so hard on what Jesus did for us that we neglect our obedience that is in response to His obedience for us. God bless you Pete

          (1)
    • Perhaps another way of saying it is the way Jesus put it: remain (abide) in me, so our focus is to BE in Jesus (bible study and prayer, etc) that We no longer live but He in us. Therefore, the way of life will be the way of love and in harmony with His principles. The faith He gives us is the result of remaining in Him and will, and it results in obedience (being loyal to Him)

      (5)
      • But here again, being loyal yes, but perfect sinless and flawless obedience and performance? I think that in this one we will always need Jesus' robe of his righteousness to cover us this side of his second coming because, this side of his second coming, our obedience will always be a less then perfect one in comparison to Jesus' flawless and sinless obedience.

        (2)
    • The tree of good and evil. This tree was made by God to be assurance of obedience,Faith, and their love for God(refer to Adam and Eve). For this tree God told our first parents not to eat, or touch they will surely die. Satan was allowed to tempt them.if they overcame the temptation they would have a long relationship with God and the angel of heaven. So did not obey God.

      (1)
  4. The two sons of Abraham and their mothers are excellent examples of the two covenants. Ishmael, Abraham’s son through the slave woman Hagar, represents the Old Covenant because he was born as a result of human effort. While Isaac, Abraham’s son through his wife Sarah, was born as a result of God’s promise and His direct intervention, seeing that Sarah had passed the age of child bearing (see Romans 4:18-21). Ishmael, therefore, represents salvation by works, the Old Covenant; while Isaac represents the New Covenant, salvation by grace, which is experienced through faith alone. What is flawed in this statement?

    (13)
    • I am not sure there was ever a time when God had a covenant with His people based on works. Maybe this is flawed.

      (7)
      • Jackson, I am not sure what you mean by works. Any covenant is an agreement between God and the people that are the other participants. If the agreement is not maintained something would have to occur, an actin for or against the agreement.

        (3)
      • Good point Jakson Chibwezo. I wouldn't consider it flawed.... just consider it an allegory, with limits to its application. A covenant it could well have been - only it was one which Abraham and Sarah initiated. Much like the "works-oriented" salvation, which appreciates that God does His part, but then we must do ours, particularly in the last days when, as some Adventists believe, God will 'remove' His Holy Spirit and they have to stand on their own. Sadly, we have had these people admit that they don't want Jesus to come yet, because they have a few more things to overcome yet.

        (1)
    • If you are using salvation by works referring to the Old Covenant only on the context of the Galatians's understanding of it, then I get it. But I have studied this quarter's lesson so far to understand that the "Old" Covenant was never about salvation by work.

      (5)
      • I agree!!!! We were created with free choice. BUT, we can do NOTHING to save ourselves or make God love us more.

        (1)
    • "Show people Jesus" is nebulous(vague) without telling them who's Jesus, what's His character. Means, we can't separate the gospel and the law which is the character of the one who loved us!

      (2)
      • I think that "showing people Jesus" is not nebulous because it carries the responsibility of showing who Jesus is. If our lives cannot show who Jesus is then any words we use to tell them who Jesus is are link sounding brass and clashing cymbals. "By this shall all men know you are my disciples; if you love one another."

        (4)
      • When you "show" Jesus you are NOT Bible bashing them but lovingly pointing them to Gods character instead of hammering "thou shalt"

        (3)
  5. "Many regard Paul’s interpretation of the history of Israel in Galatians 4:21-31 as the most difficult passage in his letter. That’s because it is a highly complex argument that requires a broad knowledge of Old Testament persons and events."

    Do you think that the Galatians had trouble understanding what Paul was getting at?

    (2)
  6. I do not see how the Old Covenant could be considered a Covenant of Works. A Works-based mindset in terms of salvation is always wrong, under the Old or New Covenant. There was nothing wrong with the Old Covenant when it was issued. God gave it, so it had to be "good" - Rom 7:12. We are reminded in Gal 3:19 that it was added for a specific purpose and a specific time. The covenant was not based on works, the people's approach was - Heb 8:8.

    (5)
    • One of the things I have come to realize from this quarter's studies is that there are two broad types of covenants discussed in the old testament. The "New Covenant" which is the original one, was totally one sided. That is why Paul likens it to a will. God declared it. He shared what he had declared with his children. But it was not between equals and they didn't have to "sign" it. He does it all.

      However there are what I call more "temporal" covenants. God told Abram if he would leave home and go to Canaan, God would bless him. He told the children of Israel that if they would obey Him they would prosper and have good health and long life. These were "two way" covenants. But they dealt with the here and now, not the hereafter. And to an extent they can even be considered statements of the laws of nature. Eat right and you will be healthier, etc. Whether natural or God empowered, they were cause and effect.

      (1)
  7. faith or in other terms trust in the Lord is what matters most. When i trust Him, i will do whatever God tells me. In this case, our obedience is the outwork of our faith and trust.

    The obedience that does not center of trust or faith in God is a do-it-yourself obedience.

    (2)

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