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Sunday: David, Solomon and the Monarchy — 26 Comments

  1. We need to be clear that the archeological evidence for David, Solomon, and the early kingdom of Israel is not strong. The evidence cited in the lesson is supportive but is not accepted as conclusive either. That does not mean that the Bible is not true. If you look for evidence of other civilizations around that time you will find that their evidence is fragmented as well. People did not write records on archival material with the idea of leaving a history for posterity. True they made buildings of stone and mortar but in the cut and thrust of kingdom building, these too were often destroyed. Shreds of evidence do remain and the best we can hope for is that they are consistent with the Bible story.

    The internal evidence from the Bible itself should be taken into account. David's reign is pivotal in the history of Israel and later the Jews and we find that David's contribution in collecting the Psalms and indeed writing or commissioning many of them as important. The fact that they became scripture and were incorporated in the Hebrew Canon is significant.

    • That is a very good question, Phil. The problem is that very often we kid ourselves about how and why we believe, and that gets in the road when we try to communicate our belief to others. Another issue is that our reasons for why we believe in God change with age.

        • I think that I first believed because my parents and family believed. I am a 3/4th generation Adventist and the family has a lot of connections within the church I laughingly joke with my friends that I am related to most Seventh-day Adventists in Australia and New Zealand whose families have been in the church for as long as ours.

          My reasons for belief now are much more complex and I would need to write a book to explain it all. Perhaps there are two things that have helped. 1) I read widely and "test" my faith. Consequently, I have to rethink and sometimes change the way I believe. 2) I try and put my belief into practice. Beliefs are not just mental assent to an idea but a practical basis for action.

          Hope that helps you understand what I mean a little better.

    • That would depend on who asked. 😉
      To a 12-year-old I have told a brief story of the origin of sin as well as the origin of this world, which answered a lot of questions that young minds start to ask.
      To some I might share that I talked to Him this morning, and I have years of experience that tell me He hears and answers.
      To others I might include the fact that the complexity of the "simple cell," the universe around us, the universe within us, and the universe beneath our feet unmistakably point to a Creator. (I've been reading up on the microbiome within us and the microbiology of the soil the last several years. Fascinating subjects on the frontiers of science. I started with the book 10% Human</em>, went on to The Microbiome Solution and have The Human Superorganism in the queue. 😉 Then I got into soil biology by way of the garden - on the web and through several books, including Teaming with Fungi, and Teaming with Microbes - both very readable. But I think I'm digressing. 😉 )

    • It’s comforting to have a God of love.... God is love, just the description it’s enough to soothe the tired and weary. He speak in our dreams and He answers prayers. It’s soothing to know that life doesn’t end here on earth, that there’s a God who will make all things new, no more nights, no more pain, no more tears, never crying again. That’s why I believe in God.

    • Because God opened my eyes to understand His absolute, never changing Truth.
      All He asked me to do is to trust Him and to believe in Him.
      He gave me His Promise to grant me eternal life if I remain faithful.
      He demonstrated to me that I can trust Him with everything in my life.
      He gave me His Word to study to get to know Him and His purpose better.
      He answerd all my questions about why I exist, what my purpose is, and where I will be once I put my trust in Him.
      He also gave me a road map to guide me through this life on a save and sure road.
      He gave me wisdom, His Holy Spirit, to discern right from wrong.
      He established my intrinsic value by telling me that I was made in His Image and am being watched over by His providence.
      He freed me from the shakles of this world's value system.
      He showed me that I do not need to justify my Faith in Him to anyone.
      He will stand up for me to defend me in the face of my enemies.
      He told me to pray for my enemies.
      He told me to love the ones that pursecute me.
      Psalm 23
      And there are so many more reasons to mention -
      Praise God for His Goodness and Mercy! I love Him with all my mind, heart and soul.

      • O that men would praise the Lord for he is good
        O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: because his mercy endureth for ever. Ps 107:1

        Many are conditional praisers. Something good happened to them or loved ones, they rejoiced and cant wait to give their testimonies in church. On the other hand, something happened that they seem were terrible, they blamed God. Many people relationship with God is a asking and receiving one. A give me, give me relationship.
        We need to praise God more “for His goodness, and for His wonderful works to the children of men.” Psalm 107:8. Our devotional exercises should not consist wholly in asking and receiving. Let us not be always thinking of our wants and never of the benefits we receive. We do not pray any too much, but we are too sparing of giving thanks. We are the constant recipients of God's mercies, and yet how little gratitude we express, how little we praise Him for what He has done for us. SC 102, 103.

    • Because the "perfect peace" I have which could never come from me or any other than God.

      Still, there is nothing we can "prove", yet we can be witnesses to the peace in our daily life. The proof will come and all will believe it then. For most it will be too late, as with those outside the ark when the rain began to fall.

  2. King David does not excist in a vacuum. His persona need only be established within the context and as one of the components in the vast biblical account of History and its relevancy to our spiritual understanding.

    Again, why would one want to ask such a proposterous hypothetical question? Is it beeing asked just to agitate the 'senses' of the faithful? The question lacks merit and does not deserve a direct answer!

    We reject the notion that the Bible should/need/can be 'proofed' by any outlaying source. If any historical artifacts are discovered, this would be only incidental to the already established credence of our Scriptures.

    The Scripture's authenticity and truthfulness is established by a higher Authority - its well-spring is the Creator our God expressing His Will for the Salvation of mankind.

    The Truth of our Scriptures' content can only be established spiritually, not historically. Any effort to move the proof of the content of our Scriptures to the realm of science is an effort by the enemy of God to undermine His authority.

    The Sriptures are a roadmap for the faithful believer to meet and know their God of Creation who has given us a promise - Salvation and everlasting life in the new world and a warning about the impending destruction of the old one.

    The seeker of perfect, unchanging Truth is the one who the Scriptures are written for and compiled into a format easily studied and referenced. By Faith we have received this Truth, by Faith it is being maintained.

    The people who do not seek the Truth as established in the Word of God, but have accepted truth based in their own deductive reasoning, are those that attempt to use the dissatisfaction in the limitations of their own truth as a motivator to discredit the Scripture's absolute Truth and the God we confess as the Creator of all things.

    Our mercyful God has opened our spiritual eyes to His Truth and no one can shut them! Once we have accepted His spiritually discerned Truth regarding our existence and its purpose, the holy Scripture - the Word of God - MAINTAINS ITS OWN ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY. He is Law and Justice, natural and spiritual, and He is Love and Mercy!

    This immutable fact is the great, 'anoying' stumbling block which will forever derail all attempts by the unenlightened scientist or philosopher to use their 'position/standing' in society to become their 'ultimate' authority and 'truth-holder' in matters of truth.
    Scientists need to stick to proofing observable things, we let Spirit guide us and stick to the spiritually discerned 'things'.

    We need to steadfastly refuse to be drawn into the trap of allowing science to proof-check issues related to Faith.

    Let us go back to the beginning - spiritual Truth can not and should not seek its proof by using natural sciences or human history - it stands on its own - God's Authority!

    • It seems to me that if there were no evidence to support the accuracy of the Bible, there would be no more reason to believe in it than in a book of fairly tales. Why not believe in the tooth fairy, for instance, if scientific evidence is meaningless?

      There is no conflict between the Bible and true science. Where conflict arises is on the subject of origins and the development of life. The subject of origins is rightly classified as philosophy. It is based on unprovable assumptions. Neither the biblical creation narrative nor the current evolutionary science narrative is provable. Each one starts out with a particular worldview and concomitant assumptions, and the assumptions determine the outcome. Both work with the same set of facts but hang these facts on different frameworks.

      Thus we need to reflect carefully on what our world view is. (I actually believe that the evidence fits the creation framework much better than the evolutionary framework, but certain bits of evidence cannot be well explained from a creationist standpoint and other bits of evidence cannot be well explained from an evolutionary standpoint.

      In reply to your comment, I suggest that the biblical narrative does not exist in a vacuum. It does not just address spiritual realities, but relates very earthy, nitty-gritty historical facts. That is why it is fair to attempt to correlate it with known history and archeological finds.

      There is only one reality, and both the Bible and modern science address that reality. The kind of science that can be tested and verified by experimentation never conflicts with the Bible. It's only when we get into historical and philosophical science that a conflict arises, and the conclusion is foregone by our assumptions (i.e. whether we believe in a Creator or in life originating by chance).

      • Hi Inge -

        Just to be sure - I stated that King David - or for that matter, David the boy - does not exist in a VACUUM. I did not say that "the biblical narrative does not exist in a vacuum."

        David had a very important purpose! He exists in scriptural history for the one and only purpose which is directly related to his spirtual calling - to help facilitate the relationship of God with His people.

        So, people looking for evidence of him can only be for one reason - to prove or disprove him in light of his scriptural reference and, in inference, to prove or disprove God's existence.

        God brought him to the forefront in Israel's History first and foremost as an essential figure in our Salvation; only incidentally, may archeological findings 'add' to this, but I would not lable this 'evidence'.

        My comments are based on the lesson's question: "Think through the implications of what it would mean for our faith if, as some people claim, King David did not really exist?

        Does this 'hypothetical' question not imply to think it to be 'normal' to add something outside of Faith to establish the truth of the scripture? Next we ask for signs and miracles to believe, right?

        If God's calling on David would not have been needed, he would not exist in any historical record. He would have remained a shepherd and nobody would 'search' after remains of his existence to 'proof' anything.

        As I stated: The Truth of God's Word rests in its own, absolute Authority! It does not need anthing else to support it!

        I have no problem with science attempting to find geological, historical connections to matters written about in the Scriptures. The reason for and the outcome of this search, though, should never be used to determine whether or not the content of the Scripture is true or not.

        The problem I have been addressing in several of my recent postings is, that both sides are trying to prove or disprove each others 'theory' by using evidence derived from their own premisses. And again, I point out that this can not be done!

        • You stated:

          The reason for and the outcome of this search, though, should never be used to determine whether or not the content of the Scripture is true or not.

          I understand what you are saying from a spiritual point of view, but it is important that the Bible is credible in its historical facts because if it wasn't we would have to potentially reject it on the grounds that it is a cunningly devised fable. We apply the test of credible history to some of the books of the Apocrypha and the Book of Mormon and reject them from our accepted Biblical Canon for that very reason.

          The fact that the history recorded in the Bible is corroborated by secular history sources and archeology gives us support for the idea that its account of salvation is not just a con job to control us.

          • With due respect, Maurice, but I strongly reject this line of reasoning. Inge and I have been engaged in a lively debate about the same topic.

            The whole premisses of the Scripture requires to have its source, its message and its carrier to be accepted by Faith.

            There is no way around the 'fact' that, first Faith in the Creator God as its Source, can confirm the Truth of the Scripture; I am saying confirme, not establish!
            We can not 'establish' because we have no means outside of Faith to 'prove' what can only be confirmed/accepted by faith. This is so difficult to accept by a science trained mind.

            Finding incidental, natural artifacts to collaborate with the Scripture does not in itself deliver 'proof' for or against the accuracy of the Scripture.

            If an honest Seeker of Truth invests his faith in an account as, using your example, told in the Book of Mormons, or for that matter any other inferior source, it will take him/her only a short while to discover this not to be the final truth. He/she is guided by the Holy Spirit which exposes the errors and leads the seeker onward, toward the ultimate Truth - God's Truth.

            God draws people of all races, creeds and persuations out of Babylon to come to His ultimate Truth. All whole hearted Truth seekers will arrive at His Truth because His is the ultimate, all powerful Truth that exposes error and in whose face all other truths loose their power.
            There are no short-cuts - it's a matter of determined Faith!

            We have to trust and accept that God's ultimate authority is revealed to the Truth seeker by His Holy Spirit and received by us through 'our' Faith. (it's really Him that empowers us to believe, we add our trust) 🙂

            His Holy Spirit will not allow the Truth seeker to remain in error too long before He removes him from the source of error and places him into His Truth. I know this from personal experience; coming through many 'truth-seeking-experiences' to finally return back into my Savior's arms to thank Him for His mercyful, gracious patience!

            If someone, because of impatience, succombs to the temptation and desire to place natural proof over the comprehensive proof provided through trust and Faith in God, he/she will remain limited and bound to its own 'wisdom' and understanding to establish truth.

          • I agree with you on the importance of faith. However, you are confusing the notions of "proof" and "evidence". I have nowhere said that we have to "prove" biblical spiritual values and salvation from science or archaeology. Corroborative evidence from history and science provides support not proof. I have a mathematical background and I know what "proof" means and what its limitations are.

            I also agree that some of the Apocrypha and the Book of Mormon may be excluded from the canon for reasons other than their historical inventions but that was not the basis of comparison here. Their historical inventions lessen their credibility. In the context of this lesson topic, that is important>

        • Hi Brigitte,
          You wrote:

          Just to be sure - I stated that King David - or for that matter, David the boy - does not exist in a VACUUM. I did not say that "the biblical narrative does not exist in a vacuum."

          Indeed, *I* wrote that "the biblical narrative does not exist in a vacuum" to make the point that it is part of this earth's history and should be expected to fit into the context of this earth's history. In other words, we should expect to find corroboration of the history found in the Bible.

          This has happened. We can also see why some of the extra-biblical books were not included in the canon. Besides teaching different ideas from the canonical books, the writers sometimes got some facts wrong, as Maurice pointed out.

          You also wrote

          Does this 'hypothetical' question not imply to think it to be 'normal' to add something outside of Faith to establish the truth of the scripture?

          That would appear to be the normal way to demonstrate that the Bible is, indeed, trustworthy. That is also why our evangelists regularly use biblical prophecy and correlate it with secular history. Thus, many thousands of people have been converted from skepticism to faith. The Bible was proven to be true by facts determined outside of Scripture.

          Think about how convincing your statement is to someone who does not already believe in the trustworthiness of the Bible:

          The Truth of God's Word rests in its own, absolute Authority! It does not need anthing else to support it!

          Anyone could as easily claim this about a story about the tooth fairy. 😉 "The truth of this story rests in its own, absolute Authority! It does not need anything to support it!" Such a statement is neither provable nor disprovable and is thus essentially nonsensical.

          • Inge -
            I am taken aback by your suggestion to compare the biblical 'story'(account) from the Scripture with the story of the tooth fairy.

            How can you place both on the same footing? Are you implying that the Scriptures are a mere story like the one about the tooth fairy, and since its validity/accuracy can not be proven, like the tooth fairy, it can not be accepted as true, inviting additional evidence to support its validity?

            Yes, I hold firmly to: adding a source outside the Bible to verify the truthfulness of its content is in error! If you reject that Scripture proves itself on all levels of content and insist on outside proof - respectfully, you might want to consider evaluating the strength or source of your faith.

            We have accepted Creation and Adam by Faith, Jesus to be the Son of God and our Savior by Faith, our Salvation by Faith.
            Why would you not accept the historical settings in their context, as part of the story account, by Faith? Does it make any difference if archeologists can find or not find any 'proof'?
            Sadly, it appears to me that it would make a difference to you.

            You seem to want to add other means to Faith. Has God proven Himself to you by earthly evidence? Have you been convicted of Jesus' Sonship by any other means than through the Holy Spirit?
            You might consider asking yourself sinceriously Clif's question:
            Why do I believe? - to help you understand the evidence/source of your 'faith'.

            I state again: A Believer can not demand to have additional, 'supportive' evidence provided before believing that the Bible is 'correct'.
            The Bible is NOT a history book were its content's accuracy has to be proven by its natural, historical setting in order to establish its spiritual accuracy.

            Yes, its historical settings could be discovered/found through archeological efforts, but the 'Word of God' can not be found to be accurate or true or false by these efforts.

            It is not possible to separate the spiritual message from the vehicle it was delivered through. Both stand on holy ground. The writers are inspired, the message is inspired - both by the same source.

            Actually, God's Holy Spirit gives additional insight to every reader truely open and receptive of its message. It is a living document, not only to prove itself by itself, but also prove itself by the edification of the reader.

            Inge, you seem to continue wanting to have outside, natural evidence support the spiritural varacity of the Scripture.
            The existence of the physical book, our Scriptures, and its spiritual content are one and the same - one does not have need to exist without the other.

            If one insits, this demand would place the authority of man over the authority of God.

            I do not understand why you would want to do this? The Scripture is God's holy writing. God gave this book to mankind for guidance. It's sole purpose is the Salvation of mankind.
            Again, we can not separate the content from its carrier. The Scripture DOES NOT NEED the support that you deem necessary to prove its veracity.

          • Brigitte, you wrote

            I am taken aback by your suggestion to compare the biblical 'story'(account) from the Scripture with the story of the tooth fairy.

            Actually, you suggested the comparison because you said that the Bible should be accepted on its authority alone, without outside evidence. Thus it is fair for people with other beliefs to say that the following should be accepted on their authority alone, without outside evidence:

            • The Quran
            • The Book of Mormons
            • The Tao Te Ching (Taoism)
            • The Vedas (Hinduism)
            • Kitáb-i-Aqdas (Bahá’í )
            • etc.

            If you meet people who claim absolute authority for the books I listed (or for the tale of the tooth fairy), on what basis could you deny their claims, using the same criteria you use for the authority of the Bible?

            By the way, were you born into a believing family, or did you become acquainted with the Bible later in life?

  3. If David did not exist, Jesus wouldn't either. Jesus comes from David's genealogy. But still, although it may be important for each one of us individually, and certainly collectively, and doing a parallel of what's going on in the planet right now, people believe in what they want. No matter the amount of evidence presented, people live by what they believe, and their reality is created upon their beliefs! Thus, the very belief of the veracity of the Bible and the existence of God is but a personal experience that each one of us has to try. I may not be able to prove by a lot of historical records, or archeological findings, but my experience with the God of the Bible has to be vivid! I'm not a saint, neither a prophet, but my experience with Him assures me that He exists and is real! Take my experience away from me, and I'm left with nothing! In my daily struggles through life the only One I can really depend on is Jesus!

  4. 2.Cor.5:1-8
    For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
    For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
    If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
    For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened; not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
    Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
    Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
    (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
    We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

  5. But whom say ye that I am?.....If any man will come after me, let him denied himself, and take up his cross and follow me. Matt 16:13-28

    'If someone asked you why you believe in God, what would your response be?'

    It started like any other day with Jesus and his disciples. The Pharisees and Sadducees as usual, always looking for a sign to prove that Jesus was God or the Son of God. It continues from general to personal, but 'Whom do say ye that I am?'

    In this world that we are living in, many are looking for something outside of the bible to prove that; Jesus exits, the creation, the flood, the origin of humans, was it really a fruit that Eve ate, the Holy Spirit, what happens after death, my dead loved ones, etc etc. Some asked, can the bible stand by itself? Do we want added information out of the bible to prove or come to a conclusion that the bible is true? Does scientific evidences proved otherwise?

    I was researching and ran into certain teachings. Many of the Atheist and Non-theist of our times, not excluding agnosticism, Ignosticism, Letsism, Skepticism, Pantheism etc were once Christians who once believed in the God of heaven. As they advanced in both age and knowledge, wealth and riches followed. The results, they no longer believed in the God of heaven but denounced him. But there is another form of Christianity.

    Christian Atheism, yep. Christian atheism is a form of cultural Christianity and ethics system drawing its beliefs and practices from Jesus' life and teachings as recorded in the New Testament Gospels and other sources, whilst rejecting supernatural claims of Christianity.

    Do all Christians believes in the supernatural? Is it the supernatural that grounded my belief in God? As a child growing up, having so little in life we were thought to trust in God for everything, to pray and believe that he answered prayers although I sometimes never saw those prayers worked. I surely saw some did. I also saw or was told people did magic and was told magic worked.

    As I grew older I cant remembered doubting the existence of God. But I asked many times if he existed, then why was he silent to so many injustice? Why the wicked seems to flourish?

    To me, humans by living a christian life, telling others about Jesus, reading the bible alone or with the use of scientific explanations would not be enough evidence to change anyone mind. While these things are good, it is the pleading of the Holy Spirit on persons mind that changes them.

    The history about the song- Amazing Grace is powerful one. How a backslidden christian renewed his commitment to God. Jesus said it is the Holy Spirit who told Peter who he Jesus was.

  6. As I see it, the reigns of David and Solomon could be considered the golden age if thinking of earthly prosperity, the number of nations held in tribute, the large armies, etc. Yet this was the root of Israels decline, by having a king as the other nations. Solomon violated all the limitations the king was to follow, and the result was a nation divided, and in both divisions idolatry was a constant stumbling block. The only "golden opportunities" I find were during the days of Samuel and Josiah. It was Josiah who finally destroyed the monuments Solomon had built to honor false gods.

    During Josiah's reign, Jeremiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel were raised up. Afterwards, the final decline.

  7. Inge -
    Sorry, the allowance for replies on the first site ran out, so I am starting a new thread. Based on our communication, I notice that we might have two different understandings about Faith.

    My unconditional faith in the absolute superiority, correctness and infallability of God's Word and actions guides me in the way I express myself when declaring that the Scripture 'stands on its own Authority'. He is well able to defend and support Himself by the Power of His Own Word.

    A believe in the tooth fairy has no equal standing with this Holy Spirit inspired Faith and is therefore a false comparison. I did not solicit such a comparison with my statement regarding God's absolute Authority which is the only source of 'proof' of His Truthfulness and existence.

    Faith in our Creator God by the believer is either unconditional, or he/she when undecided about declaring unconditional Faith needs/is looking for further 'proof' to be 'convinced'. This person's Faith at that time is conditional.
    This is at the heart of the issue I am addressing in my conversation with you and Maurice.

    When we truely believe, nothing needs to be added to 'validate' Scripture's Authority. No 'superior' authority of any kind exists which could be used to validate the existence of God or the Truthfulness of God's Word - nothing can 'aid', 'support', 'enhance' the source/existence/purpose of the Scripture or its truthfulness because we 'unreservedly' believe.

    All incidental findings discoverd through archeological or other research, constituting what some want to call 'proof' to 'validate' or 'support' the biblical account, belong to a different category of evidence - they are related to 'matter' and nature's and man's natural history.
    They are interesting - give color - but are not essential to support our Christian history and Faith.

    I will always defend my statement - 'Nothing outside the Scripture itself can be used to support the truthfulness of Scripture or support its historical accuracy'!

    Small, insignificant historical record keeping errors may be present within the Scripture, and we might discover natural artifacts related to biblical accounts, but we can not use this as 'proof' or 'disprove' of the event written about.

    Everything written about in the Scripture is given as a spiritual enhancement to strengthen our Faith and is therefore part and parcel of the expressed Power of the Word of God.
    NOTHING written or written about in the Scripture is superfluous!

    I am sure that all world Religions can bring forth natural and historical evidence to 'proof' their beginnings. But they can not show with this effidence the supramacy of their muliple gods.
    Only our God's claim establishes that He is the One that has created heaven and earth, has come to earth to be a man like us, died for the remission of our sins and rose again to establish our Salvation for a life after death.
    He is the only God that declared the end of the age to be near and show mankind that it is He that will save us by Faith and Trust in Him!

    Yes, my parents believed, but I do not think that they fully understood Faith. I did not receive formal religious 'training'. Basic information about God and the Bible was taught in school. I was baptized into the Protestant faith, confirmed at age 14 and given as 'Leitspruch' Matt.24:35 - Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. This started my pilgrimage to seek to understand His Truth.
    The study of the Bible started after coming to America as an adult when attending Sunday School in Baptist Churches. I joined the Adventist family about 25 years ago after deciding it was imperative to communally worship our God on His Sabbath.

    The call to 'come out of Babylon' goes out to all who believe; everyone that believes has a Faith-journey to complete; no one is 'born' into/with mature Faith; everyone has to meet Jesus in a personal encounter were it is decided by faith to believe.

    The walk of Faith is progressive but always remains the same - Faith is supported by Faith; evidence being born of Faith is added to strengthen Faith.

    We trust God that He will faithfully lead us from werever He finds us and ultimately unite us with Himself. No matter the stations we go through on our walk of Faith, He continous to patiently draw us by and toward His perfect Light.
    He will never leave us or forsake us in this faithwalk with Him.

    There are many lights that glamour for man's attention, but the Truth seeker, seeking the truth with all his heart, mind and soul, will be safely lead throught the wilderness until he reaches his destiny - his God of all Truth.
    Only if he 'gives up' and leaves this race, can he fall short of the goal.

    Our God is patient and kind, mercyful and compassionate - long suffering and not willing that anyone should perish.

    Outside of Faith and its related insights and understanding given to us by God's Holy Spirt, there is no other source that can add 'proof' about God's existance or shed light on His plan that shows how, when and with what He works out our Salvation.

    • Brigitte,
      Thank you for your "reply," but you didn't actually reply to the points I made.

      Just for the record, I define faith as trusting God enough to do what He says. This faith rests on my own experience as well as on the trustworthiness of His Word, which is demonstrated in a multitude of ways outside my own experience. In a reply to Phil, I gave a sample of ways I might reply to someone who asks me why I believe in God.

      Now I'm asking you to share how you would show someone who has no acquaintance with God or the Bible that the Bible is actually trustworthy.

      How would you demonstrate that the Bible is more to be trusted than

      • The Quran
      • The Book of Mormons
      • The Tao Te Ching (Taoism)
      • The Vedas (Hinduism)
      • Kitáb-i-Aqdas (Bahá’í )
      • etc.

      ... yes, more trustworthy than the tooth fairy too. 😉

      Do you really believe that your declaration of unconditional faith in the Bible would sway someone who doesn't believe in the Bible?


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