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Sunday: The Fate of the Dead — 40 Comments

  1. It is probably fairly true to say that most readers of this blog accept the Seventh-day Adventist teaching on the state of the dead, resurrection, and that salvation has something to do with eternal life. While we differ from other Christians on the state of the dead, we share with them the notion that there is life in heaven when this earth is ultimately destroyed and replaced. However, we have an uphill battle if we try and convince most of our secular friends of this. Typically they have the idea that our life ends when we die, period! One atheist I am familiar with issued a statement that at his funeral he wanted his state to be described as "dead" and not one of the many figures of speech used to hide the fact that he was simply dead.

    The question remains: if we are to preach the Gospel to all the world (including the atheists) how do we convince then that there is more to life than the few years that most of us get to live? We have no scientific argument. We cannot put some sort of measuring instrument in their hands so they can see into the future. We only have our faith experience to share.

    The way that we live today, is our wildcard when it comes to convincing others that life has a purpose and meaning beyond our lifetime.

    Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
    Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12: 1,2 KJV

    I know that I am quoting Hebrews somewhat out of context here but the idea remains cogent to this discussion. Live our lives in Jesus in such a way that we are a witness to his love. That is the only way we can communicate that hope to non-believers.

  2. Jesus talked about "heaven" a lot. Even His model of how to pray starts by addressing God as "Our Father who art in heaven". He tells us "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth....Lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth or rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal" (Matt 6:19-20).

    So what treasures can we collect in this lifetime that transfers for eternity? What does our eternal God value? People. Souls over anything, above possessions and performance. We are here with the opportunity to make an eternal difference with lives, our lives and others' lives. We're on this rock floating in the universe with a purpose. (Daniel 12:3; Matthew 4:19; Colossians 3:1-4; 1 Timothy 2:1-4)

    It's a challenge, isn't it?! So many people, so many friends and people I care about, claim to be happy without God. And when something does crash through the superficial shell of stability and happiness, reading the Bible seems the last place to turn for someone not born again. Colossians 4:2-6 is a good prayer as we labor with God's Spirit for those He has placed into our lives.

  3. Our mission is to share the good news that the Creator of this world and the Universe cares for each one of us and if we love Him and believe in Him He will give us eternal life in the earth made new filled with only peace, harmony and happiness.

    I don't believe it is our responsibility to convince them of the truth, Jesus said the Holy Spirit will convict them, we just need to share it.

    In modern terms if a business wants to sell a new product they first have to create a desire for it, to show people how it will make their life so much better, just think of the adverts for the latest phone or car.

    So we have to market a relationship with the most amazing, powerful superbeing in the Universe! How?
    By telling and showing them how He has improved our lives. What do we have that they don't? Someone who cares for us no matter what happens, who shows how we fit into the big picture in the war between good and evil, that even if we suffer sometimes it will all be worth it in the end. Fighting for His cause and helping others is more fulfilling than accumulating stuff or merely just surviving, it gives us a reason to get up every morning. We have the assurance that this life is not all there is, there is a future where the streets are paved with gold and filled with happy friendly people who care about each other.

  4. Is the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter a part fulfillment of Luke 21:11? There will be great earthquakes, and there will be famines and plagues in many lands, and there will be terrifying sights and great miraculous signs from heaven.

    Would this convince an atheist? Or is it for believers?

    Astronomers use the word conjunction to describe meetings of planets and other objects on our sky’s dome. They use the term great conjunction to describe meetings of the two biggest worlds in our solar system, Jupiter and Saturn. The December 21, 2020, great conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn is already underway! It’s highly conspicuous in the west after sunset each evening now. On December 21, the pair will be only 0.1 degree apart.
    Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions happen every 20 years; the last one was in the year 2000. But these conjunctions aren’t all created equal. The 2020 great conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn will be the closest since 1623 and the closest observable since 1226! 2020’s extra-close Jupiter-Saturn conjunction won’t be matched again until the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction of March 15, 2080.Jupiter & Saturn

  5. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Eccles 9:5

    The Fate of the Dead

    I want to rename my heading as- The Fate of the Living. As I was reading Ecclesiastes 9:1-18. It never dawned on me that this passage of scripture is speaking about the living on this earth and their fate while alive. After one exhale their last breath, their spirit goes back to God and their is no more soul. After the third day the mortal body decomposes. Death is just a rest for both the righteous and the wicked, nothing beyond rest.
    When one is alive, Jesus bids us to drink and eat of him. What does this means.

    To eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ is to receive Him as a personal Savior, believing that He forgives our sins, and that we are complete in Him. It is by beholding His love, by dwelling upon it, by drinking it in, that we are to become partakers of His nature. What food is to the body, Christ must be to the soul. Food cannot benefit us unless we eat it, unless it becomes a part of our being. So Christ is of no value to us if we do not know Him as a personal Savior. A theoretical knowledge will do us no good. We must feed upon Him, receive Him into the heart, so that His life becomes our life. His love, His grace, must be assimilated. Desire of Ages p 389.3

    The Holy Spirit comes to the soul as a Comforter. By the transforming agency of His grace, the image of God is reproduced in the disciple; he becomes a new creature. Love takes the place of hatred, and the heart receives the divine similitude. This is what it means to live “by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God.” This is eating the Bread that comes down from heaven. Desire of Ages p 391.1

  6. It is interesting to me as to how none of the verses that are mentioned in this lesson for the first day of this week say anything about Jesus' Cross. They do mention the eating of His Flesh and the drinking of His Blood etc. This to me is further proof that Jesus did not need The Cross for any of this. He was and is The Lamb Slain from the foundation of the world and this was very clearly demonstrated by the symbolic meaning of the Levitical Priesthood and the daily slaying of a lamb each morning and a lamb each evening and all the other slaying and sacrificing of animals and yearly feasts etc. But for this "the cross" was totally unnecessary. However, Jesus was willing to go and He did go to that Roman Cross anyway simply because "His own recieved him not."

    • And to demonstrate how human free-will behaves w/o His intervention. Christ demonstrated just how selfless we may be asked to be in our own lives.

    • Pete, I am confused, are you saying Jesus didn't have to die for our sins or that He didn't have to die on the cross? Or are you saying he was already slain before the foundation of the earth?
      How do you understand Jesus' statement:
      Joh 3:14 KJV  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

      • Jesus started to bleed for the world's sin (yours and mine) at the Garden of Gethsemane before the cross, Luke 22:44 (Luke did not witness this part of Jesus' pain and suffering before the cross; Luke writes here what Peter, and John related to him what they witnessed here: they thought it was sweat that appeared to them like "great drops of blood." However, I personally believe that Jesus here was starting to bleed for our sin.) Then, when the soldier thrust his spear into Jesus' side at the cross, Jesus was already dead. So then, Shirley, if Jesus was already dead for our sin by the time the soldier speared Jesus' side, how did "the cross" have anything to do with his dying for our sin?

        • Pete, As I understand it Jesus was alive for 6 hours on the cross -from 3rd to 9th hours - before he died. Only then did the soldier thrust his sword into his side to make sure He was dead.
          EG White tells us:

          But it was not the spear thrust, it was not the pain of the cross, that caused the death of Jesus. That cry, uttered “with a loud voice” (Matthew 27:50; Luke 23:46), at the moment of death, the stream of blood and water that flowed from His side, declared that He died of a broken heart. His heart was broken by mental anguish. He was slain by the sin of the world. Desire of Ages p 722.2

          • Here again, Shirley, How could Jesus have said to His Father, "Into your hands I commit my spirit," and then Jesus bows His head and dies; if as you say and that even EGW says that it was not the soldiers' spear that killed Him and as that somehow the spear also played a part in somehow killing Him? No, Shirley, Jesus was already dead when the soldier speared Jesus' side. Notice how this was recorded by the Apostle John in 19:33, 34 "But when they came to Jesus, and saw that He was dead already, they brake not His legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced His side, and forthwith came there out blood and water."

            • Pete, I think I need you to explain your original comment because obviously I didn't understand your point.
              You said: "Jesus didn't need the Cross it was totally unnecessary"

              I presumed you were referring to this sentence in that day's lesson.

              Eternal life makes so much sense in light of the cross; in light of the cross, nothing else makes sense but eternal life. That the Creator of the universe, the one who “made the worlds” (Heb: 1:2), the one in whom “we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28), that He, God, should incarnate in human flesh and in that flesh die for...?

      • Shirley - may I point out that your quote in Mrs. White's Desire of Ages pg.722.2 says: ...'He was slain by the sin of the world which caused His death due to a broken heart.'
        Your response to Pete uses the word for, which does not mean the same as 'by'. I believe that 'for' in this context means "an act done for something"(the cross did something for ..); on the other hand, 'by' means "an act caused 'by' something"(the cross exemplifies man's sin).
        The cross did not cause the death 'for something'; rather, 'by the sin of man and because of Christ's faith His heart broke'; He yielded His life unto the effects of man's sin, and by His Faith His and our life were gained.

        Like Peter and Mrs. White, I hold that Christ was "slain by the sin of the world". He yielded his will to preserve His Life to the act of man's cruelty and darkness of heart and mind, dying of a broken heart to so become our Savior.

        • Brigitte, The weight of the sins of the world broke His heart, but he voluntarily took this weight of our sins on himself for us, so it is both!

    • Whether the cross or some other means, Jesus, as the sinner's substitute and propitiation, had to die as the sinner will have to die "in [their] sins"(John 8:24). The cross was foreseen by God before this world was created, because He sees the end from the beginning.

      The Lamb was slain from the foundation(when the act of creating this world was commenced) because the foreknowledge of God was that THIS world would rebel, fall, and need a Savior. So when He said: "Let there be Light", Jesus was committing Himself to be the Lamb of God, and His death reveals how committed He was.

  7. In my opinion, our life, death, resurrection, and living the new life are all central aspects of God’s Plan of Salvation. If any one of them would be missing from the information and instructions of the Scriptures given to man, we would be hard pressed to find answers anywhere else.
    The true meaning of Death and Life are the main themes of the Gospel. I am not preoccupied with wanting to know what *eternity* means, how I will spend the ‘time’, what questions I will ask, etc., I am more interested in making sure that I will be acceptable in God’s sight to be among the called ones that will enter His Rest.
    If God tells us that our new life is the TRUE life, why would we worry about if we like it? Do we still think like obstinate children? Why not simply look at eternity with the eye of the ever present ‘moment’ in time?

    Christ Jesus spoke many times about what true death and life means. One example is recorded in Luke9:59-62KJV - “And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the Kingdom of God. And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the Kingdom of God.”
    Does this sound as if we can quibble with God about whether we *like* to live in His Kingdom? Are we still in the Garden of Eden wondering who knows best? We either accept to be citizens of HIS Kingdom or we don’t!

    When I, as an adult, chose to believe that there is a God, that my Heavenly Father God created all things and all things work/are administered according to HIS Will, I was confronted with the realization that only what comes from His mind will keep me alive in this life and in the life to come. And this basically answered all my concerns and I gave my life into my Father’s hands!
    Both lives I live are new lives; 180 degree opposite of how people living outside of His Kingdom live. All principles, rules, laws governing my living in God’s Kingdom are HIS Laws and govern all that *IS*; including death, the new life, and eternity.

    Talking about principles governing life and death with people who do not believe that all that exists is sourced in an intelligent Creator is fruitless, unless they are open to considering this as a possibility. If so, I can explain that if this person should live this earthly life based on the spiritual principles which govern man’s *True life*, then this new life will include the resurrection to live the second life in peace, love, and harmony with all creation.
    This person might then consider living his/her life in the way which will result in what the world is glamouring to achieve by its own means but cannot establish in the here and now.

  8. Yes, Pete – I share your understanding of the Roman Cross being a torture device with which our Lord and Savior experienced the depravity of fallen humanity and it not being part of the sacrifice. The Roman cross is evidence of the utter lostness of mankind, it is repulsive, and at the same time a stark warning sign of the length to which the lost man is capable of going if led by his own will and understanding of justice.

    I will never allow myself to watch movies made by Hollywood which gratuitously depict the suffering and agony of our Lord Christ Jesus; or, for that matter, violence in general. How can anyone look at the Roman cross and not be devastated by the realization that human, even religious understanding of life has degenerated to the point of finding a religious legal justification for crucifying the Savior.

    Truly, as Christ says – the living are already dead unless they receive the Father’s Message of Salvation to save the living Soul. Only the already dead can visit such cruelty on one another, even the one who came to save them from death to give them true life.
    We should not hang this Roman torture tool around our necks is if it were an ornament. Being facetious, why not hang around our necks the guillotine? Every time we see it, we should instead weep about what we have done to Him who came to save us.

    I believe that we have yet to comprehend the depth of the spiritual darkness, the deception and our depravity which reaches into all corners of the heart and mind of man. Thank God, the Word and the Truth and Light of the Word of God expelled this darkness once and for all!

    • What do you think Paul meant by "boasting in the cross" when he wrote in Galatians 6:14 NET "But may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world"?

      • Inge and Shirley – Matt.11:29,30KJV; Matt.16:24-26KJV - could shed light on the cross Paul referred to in Gal.6:14KJV.
        If Paul would want to boast, he would boast in the amount of suffering and inflictions he endured as he maintained his trusting hope of Salvation through Faith; just as Christ Jesus who so with became our Savior.
        Paul confesses that nothing, no suffering nor anything else matters anymore, “the world has been crucified to me and I to the world” – he esteems nothing higher than to remain faithful in the face of the full onslaught of all the powers of darkness.

        One could translate *by* as ‘because of’ our ‘due to’ when reading Ellen White’s reference. He was slain ‘by/because/due to’ the sin of the world, and his response of unwavering faith in the Father’s integrity and His desire to see mankind redeemed caused His heart to brake; He gave up His Spirit.
        This was the full measure of suffering, the loss of life, to which God had to allow His Son to go in order to redeem mankind; only the Father knew for certain that this would lead to life for those who follow His Son Christ Jesus by Faith - dying to self that Christ may live in them.
        It was evil that slew our Savior, and it was God’s Justice, Mercy and Grace which brought Him from death to Life, and with his selfsless act of love, He made a way to atone for our sin by His act of selfless love.

        • Bridgette, Paul is quite clear Jesus died for our sins. He took the sins of the world on Him, i.e. became sinful, and died to pay the penalty for them as our substitute. The wages or penalty of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life.
          2Cor 5:21, Rom 6:23, John 3:16

          1Cor 15:1-5, 1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
          3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephasa and then to the Twelve.

          If we don't accept what Paul preached then he says we have believed in vain and we are not saved!

          • Thank you for caring, Shirley - Yes, I do believe the Gospel Message. The writers translated Paul's letter using the words 'by' and 'for'; "..by this gospel you are saved", and "..Christ died for our sins".
            Maintaining Faith being the operational agent in all that we believe, I understand the words 'by' and 'for' in their spiritual context, not in their literal/physical sense. Like the cross - Jesus was not slain 'by' the cross, we are also not saved 'by' the Gospel.
            Paul also includes the very powerful word "IF" to condition this statement - '..if you hold firmly to the word ..'.
            In my opinion, understanding Salvation fully is much more complex than mere words can express; all 'words' have a spiritual context, but they matter in the interpretation and understanding of the Truth!

            • Brigitte, I agree, we are saved by grace through faith alone and the reason God can maintain His Principles of Life and also be merciful is because Jesus paid the penalty for our sins.

          • Shirley, I wish to insert a little reminder: Jesus did not become "sinful." He was never tainted by the least bit of sin, thus not "sinful." Paul says that "For our sake He [God the Father] made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."
            When we focus on only a few words in a passage, we run the danger of creating error. In this case, I believe the text says that the Father caused the sinless Son to experience "sin" [separation from God] so that we might be able to experience the righteousness of God. I conclude that because that's what happened on the cross. Christ experienced the total separation from God that unrepentant sinner will eventually experience. But as much as His relationship with the Father was more intimate and as much as His nature is more capable of experiencing both love and grief, the agony of separation was deeper than any sinner is likely to experience. This thought bears a lot of contemplation, and we probably cannot fully appreciate it.

            • Inge thank you for the correction and explaining the difference, that Jesus was not sinful but experienced the effects of the sins of the world which is separation from God, which Jesus experienced on the cross.

        • Brigitte: A couple of details: The "yoke" of Matt.11:29,30 KJV is not equivalent to the "cross" of Matt.16:24-26 KJV. The "yoke" refers to the daily burden/work of life as we are "yoked" to Christ who does the pulling with us and for us. Because He asks us to cast our burdens on Him, the burden is "light" for us.
          The "cross," on the other hand, stands for death. In Matt.16:24-26 KJV it stands for death to self and self-interest. This is not a death that Christ died for us. We must die this death ourselves, but since we cannot crucify ourselves (cf Gal 2:20), we must allow Him to do this for us by surrendering our 'self' to Him.

          Your comment was in response to my question,in which I asked what you suppose Paul meant by "boasting" in the cross.
          I think this is your reply:

          If Paul would want to boast, he would boast in the amount of suffering and inflictions he endured as he maintained his trusting hope of Salvation through Faith;

          I don't think Paul was focused on his own suffering. "Boasting" is a way of elevating self, and I believe that Paul was intentionally doing just the opposite. He said he would "boast" - that is "lift up" only Christ crucified on the cross (and all it symbolizes). He says that, because of Christ, the world is dead to him, and he is dead to the world.

  9. Our commission is to share Truth/Gospel. What others believe as a result is not our concern, only that we share Truth/Gospel in a way that will draw people who are seeking answers, and not in a way that will try to "convince" others against their choice/will.
    Do you notice that Jesus never argued, only taught. He never threatened, or coerced. He only loved and taught with an earnest compassion for the lost and suffering, even if they did not know they were lost or suffering.

    We can share the truth about death and the final resurrection of the dead(both lost and saved), and share the Hope we have in Jesus. In doing this faithfully, the Holy Spirit will add His power to even the humblest effort.

    This work is our privilege and as Jesus said: "My yoke is easy and My burden is light".

  10. Shirley De Beer, my original point is simply that if the spiritual leadership had accepted Jesus for who He was and is mainly "The Lamb of God," God Himself would have not allowed Rome to crucify His Son Jesus. However, because Jesus would still be "The Lamb of God," He would have still died for the sin of humanity and just taken the place of the Bullock and Lord's Goat at The Day of Atonement and just simply bled to death somewhere at the then standing Temple. Then three days later, He would have taken up His life again and started His earthly and eternal reign as King of King and Lord of Lords 2,000 plus or minus year ago from Israel.

    • Pete- there seems to be some problems. The word "if" is a little word but has great consequences. Imagine 'if' Lucifer did not sin, or 'if' humans did not sin, 'if' a lot of things did not happened but the reality is, the happened. After human sin Jesus was promised to die/bruised for us. Gen 3:15. Throughout the bible it tells us about Jesus who would come and die by the shedding of blood for humans to redeem us back to God because sin is such a terrible thing. Isa 53:1-12. When Cain killed Abed, blood was shed. We cant rewrite the bible to say Jesus could have just bled to death somewhere at the then standing Temple. Just remember Jesus did not raised himself from his death. His father sent an Angel to the tomb to raised him. Matt 28:1-8

  11. And just to add to my previous comment: Jesus would have also gone on to serve at the then standing Temple as High Priest etc.. There also would have been no need for a Second Coming of Jesus either.

  12. Good morning:
    I have truly enjoyed the postings concerning if the cross was needed. It truly caused me to think if it was. I have come to believe it was. Because of the horrific suffering upon Jesus-this is the same feeling G-D has every time we sin against him. The weight of the sin of every person, on the entire planet, hurts G-D so much. However, I would like to point out-the cross was needed, for reasons of the prophecy of Isaiah 52:13-53:12. These passages describe in detail, the reason for the need for the brutality. I am new in the study with SDA, but I think that passage describes the reason for it.

    • The only reason the cross was needed was because Jesus was rejected for who He was and is, "King of Kings and Lord of Lords and High Priest etc.," by the Spiritual Leadership of the then known Church of God---Israel. Had He not been rejected, He would have started His Kingly and High Priestly rule then when He entered on a donkey to be crowned then. Then Jesus would have waited until the Day of Atonement to take the place of the Bullock and Lord's Goat and just bled for the sin of Humanity somewhere at the then standing Temple and would have risen from death three days later and the Gospel of salvation in Him would have gone from the then Nation of Israel with Him as King of Kings and Lord and of Lords and High Priest etc.

        • Here again, William Earnhardt, Yes, Jesus had to die on the cross because He was rejected by the then known spiritual leadership of Israel. Because by rejecting Him, they then handed Him over to Rome to be crucified. The fact that Jesus entered on a donkey into Jerusalem was an opportunity for them to crown Him King of Kings and Lord of Lords but they passed that opportunity up etc.

      • Isaiah Prophesied, Isaiah 52:13-53:12.the entire scenario-including his entrance on a donkey was foretold-in Scripture. Yes, he was rejected-however-we cannot-nor should not try to second guess. Isaiah foretold in prophesy, and proof of The Messiah being Jesus-was in those passages. Our Father has a plan for our Salvation, we are not to try and rewrite the Scripture...or modify Our Fathers plan. Had Jesus not have accepted the cross, our Salvation would have not been guaranteed, and He would not have been allowed to return to The Father. Jesus felt "our emptiness" on the cross, he also suffered horribly, as was foretold, he was literally beaten unrecognizable, to the point of looking "inhuman." But in this state-he took our sins upon himself, and forgave those that tormented him. He did this upon his own free will and accepted Our Father's plan for Salvation...Glory to Him indeed!

        • Here again, John Macon, many Bible prophecies are conditional. I believe this one was very conditional upon their rejection of Jesus for who He was and is. They "chose" to reject Him. They did not have to reject Him.

          • Pete:
            "Conditional" Prophesies???
            I think not...The rejection was only a portion of the scenario...choosing to base the premise of rejection as the only cause/reason-is like basing the premise that a car only needs gas to "run". Yes Rejection was a part of the issue, however, from the beginning, Christ knew of the sting of rejection was about to be placed upon him, he knew of the betrayal, the denial, the sinfulness of mankind, in turn, would "raise him up"...and still he told his Father (Our Father) take me-I will go in their stead.No brother Paul, it was you-it was I, it was all of mankind which in turn held onto the nails in which we crucified Our Lord. Due to our ugliness of sin, we took his life. In return, he gave us his life-in order we should be able to keep ours. Even The Apostles, who was with him, and learned from his teaching, did not understand or know who he was really, save the one who would later also deny him. The Apostles expected "The Messiah" in a Jewish context, Jesus was much more than that "Messiah" in context he was Our Saviour, much more than a "Messiah".Remember had the Apostles knew of him beforehand-they would not have had the reaction after his death upon the cross...as in The Jewish context-if a "Messiah" is killed, he is not a Messiah at all, which was truly the reason for their attitude after the crucifixion. Even John the Baptist was unsure, remember of his sending the gents out to ask who HE really was, and this man saw the miracle unfold at Christs' baptism. So yes-this all rejection was indeed a dep portion of the story, however, it is not the entire story, all these things, rejection, betrayal, but above all the story of prophesy, is leading us-telling us-who HE was. Bible prophesies are not conditional based upon what mankind chooses to do, prophesies are unconditional, based upon what G-D will do. This brother Pete is the story, the story of us-how we will meet Our Lord in the future-will we are in Christ's hand, so as not to be taken from him-or will we choose to believe in conditional philosophy?
            No Brother Paul-his rejection was foretold centuries prior to his death on the cross-the entire OT points to Him and his coming to the earth, yet "they passed that opportunity up" because it was written time before words on a page, this was to be what happened, human conscience had no bearing nor could have saved him either...his mission, thankfully fulfilled-saved us!

  13. John Macon, you are starting to sound like an "un conditional destiny theologian." That is why some people do not accept Jesus and His love for them because they feel that if God knew that they would sin and then be condemned to death by that, why did God even bother to give them a birth and a life? And so they go on to feel that God was very unjust to even create Adam and Eve because He knew that they would forfeit eternal life etc. So, here again, why would God's own Son even bother to try to be crowned King at His triumphal entry on a donkey if He knew that He would be rejected by them etc.?

    • Pete:
      Hello and good evening sir-then I guess you prescribe to "Pre-Destination?" Are you sure Jesus tried to be crowned King of this world...explain please, you seem to be offering a straw man argument here, you seem to not understand the reason behind the sacrifice...you seem to miss that his entry was also foretold, Jesus was fulfilling the Prophesy again this is not about only rejection-this is about Salvation...


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