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Tuesday: God’s Covenant People — 35 Comments

  1. To be in a covenant relationship with God is to be in agreement with him. The Lord's covenant with us is found in his commandments.To have a personal relationship with the Lord requires that we love him. Loving the Lord means keeping his commandments. John 14:15 says "If you love me, keep my commandments"

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  2. Obedience. The covenantal prophecies of blessing were conditional on obedience to God’s law, and prophecies of doom applied only to the disobedient. Free will (in that GOD has given as the freedom to choose. Conditional on obedience to God's law. What choose you?

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  3. I think is impossible por human beings to truly fullfill their parts on a covenant with God! Humans are doomed to failure! Obedience to the Law is required but too heavy for itself. That's why Jesus came. That's why Jesus showed us a New Covenant. Only through Him our incomplete actions can be accepted! Meaning LOVE! Where there is some love there is Hope!

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    • JC Zielak, The first covenant, the one that we are reminded of, and the most often plainly seen, is when a rainbow is visible. God does not change. Covenants are agreements between two or more parties. God will always abide by His agreements with human beings. We do not hold up our end of the agreement much too often. Gods' covenant will never change, that I am aware of. We call this, blessed assurance.

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      • I thought the first covenant was the one given in Gen 3:15. God's covenant differs from man's in that he sees we are incapable of holding up our side of the rainbow, and he takes Himself as our place to fulfill our side. Gen 22:8 as another example. In Gen 9 He calls us back to that promise which was initiated long before sin entered the world Rev 13:8, that as our Creator, and Redeemer he is our eternal friend.

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  4. The Promise first requires us to believe it & once we believe we must do what we believe is correct according to Gods instructions. Is it correct to be disobedient and not expect consequence? We can learn form our mistake and do better for sure.

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  5. lets not confuse the Abrahamic Covenant and Mosaic Covenant....they are both Covenants but they are unique in their characteristics

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  6. But what about GODS' PROMISES? Are they not also part of HIS COVENANT with HIS PEOPLE besides HIS COMMANDMENTS? For example 1John 1:9 and 1 John 2:1,2 and Isaiah 55:6,7 and Psalms 51:1,2, 7-13? The Apostle Peter and Paul in 2Peter 1:4 and 2 Cor. 7:1 are quite clear that it is BY GODS' PROMISES that God purifies and cleanses us and helps us to become partakers of GODS' DIVINE NATURE.

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    • I agree with you and the Bible texts that you reference just solidifies the covenant relationship we have with God and God has with us. Those scriptures give us instruction and if we are obedient and follow those instructions, we keep the covenant intact. That being said, the words \"believe\" and \"obedience\" come into play here just as in the above comments.

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  7. The covenant God has made with any one was nearly been one sided. All they had to do was to believe and accept. The same with us, for God has given us a covenant also. Heb. 8:10 says he will write his law in our hearts and be our God. And Phi.1:6 says that he is the one to complete what he has started in our hearts. Therefore our part of God's covenant is simply to believe and not let him go until he blesses us with what he offered us, (as did Jacob). That is why we will go through the little time of Jacob's trouble. Because the human heart does not give up that easy, unless you are determined as Jacob was.

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  8. My covenant relationship with God means intimate trust and reliability exist between me and Him. I believe that if I listen to and follow the instructions His Spirit gives, He is with me. He hears me and blesses my efforts to His own name's glory.

    My biggest obligation is to believe and trust His Word. I respond to Him by doing what He wants me to because of the love and trust He has for me and I for Him.

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  9. By keeping God's commandments you've entered a covenant with Him and He has promised blessings for those who honour His Laws. My responsibility therefore is to by God's grace honour His Law at all times, not just for blessings but because I love Him.

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  10. Peter wrote from an “old testament perspective” due to that being the Bible of His day. He was closer to those writings than we are to the New Testament times. Besides, the covenant is an “everlasting” covenant isn't it? It has no end, and is the only covenant to exist for any and all who would be saved. What did Jesus teach from(Luke 24:27)?

    God made a covenant of promise with specific conditions to save whosoever would be saved from sin and it's wages of death. The covenant with Israel (the seed of Abraham) was to be through them an invitation to the whole world, so that God could bless and save all of Adam's fallen race if they so chose to be accepting of God's grace through faith in His promises and conditions. This covenant was first given to Adam, and then every succeeding generation who would accept it, and though the types are now replaced by the sacrifice and work of Christ, this covenant, now called the Gospel, is still offered to all who would become Abraham's seed in Christ(Gal 3:29, etc).

    The Law of the covenant has not been changed since given at Eden, then spoken/written at Sinai. It has always been God's purpose to restore His divine nature in fallen man, and the covenant/gospel promises this for all who exercise faith in God's exceeding great and precious promises(2 Peter 1:4). Even a casual reading of God's word will reveal the narrow path Jesus entreats all to follow Him upon, adding the admonition that few will find it, while offering to yoke Himself with "whosoever believeth in Him". Entering into a covenant with God will bring eternal life through Christ who has been set forth as a propitiation “through faith in His blood”(Rom 3:25). My obligation? The acceptance by Faith!

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  11. To be in a Covenant relationship with God, it means to me how much you are willing, accept Him to guide you through your life. It also mean to remain faithful to our savior in any situation would happen. Abide with the Lord, Jesus Christ. The Covenant between you and Him, or it could also be your covenant you promess between you and Him, our Savior Jesus Christ will not let you down. "Faith sees the invisible ,believes the unbelievable, and receives the impossible."

    This covenant relationship upgrades my faith day after day, also with the trust I have gained in the Lord. My heavenly father/Mother has done marvelous things for me and my children. He is my love, my life , my heart, my soul, and my mind; even with some situations that are indicate its impossible to be solved, He surely shows me He is capable doing of anything.

    I also Pray to God to help me to Stay faithful to his covenant that He ordain me to obey. I can never repay Him for His spectacular work He has accomplish in my life, as well for the future. The only thing I ask God, is to help me to stay faithful to Him for the rest of my life. It does not matter with other things, with who, whom, what, when and how. He and I that are matter. I always say to God, Please my Lord, the one who died for me on the cross at Calvary. please help me to fight for our relationship. Lord I can\'t do it alone I need you, please rescue me for the sake of your infinite love and our relationship. The Devil is bitterly jealous of our savior and us. This malice spirit wants the entire world to worship him. Jesus Christ got the Victory. Praise the Lord Alleluia.

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  12. In the comments above, I see some confusion regarding two types of "covenant in the Bible. One is often termed the "old covenant." It is the one in which the people said, "All that the Lord has said we will do." (Ex 24:3) They utterly failed to keep their promise, and God demonstrated to them, through the sanctuary services, that He would save them by His grace, not their promises.

    So we have another covenant based on "better promises" - the promises of God. (Heb 8:6) This is generally known as the "New Covenant" even though it is older than the "old covenant," having been given to Abraham long before and renewed a number of times since.

    Jeremiah describes the new covenant and explicitly states the "better promises in Jer 31:31-34. It states that "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. ... I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

    Let us be careful that we do not go back to the old covenant based on the human promise to obey. We are no more able to do that than the Israelites were. What the Lord requires of us is to yield Him our full lives/hearts, and He will complete the work He started in us at conversion.

    We are not saved by obedience. We are saved solely and exclusively by the righteousness of Christ, if we humbly surrender to Him. And that surrender will work itself out in works of obedience *because* we are already being saved by Christ Himself. We are covered by His righteousness every step of the way - even when we fall - as long as we are surrendered to Him. It is not the occasional good deeds or misdeeds that determine the final destiny of our lives, but the direction of our lives.

    But if we hope to be saved by obedience, we will fall just as surely as the Israelites did and labor under discouragement and failure or become proud hypocrites like the Pharisees were. "Pharisees" might sound bad today, but they were the conservative, "spiritual" members of ancient Israel, and the description of Laodicea fit them as well as modern Christians.

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    • Inge,
      I like the way you describe the difference between the two covenants. You bring out what is so important, salvation is in Christ alone. Surely there is no salvation in mere 'obedience' to the law, no flesh is justified by behavior.

      Sometimes good behavior seems to be so important socially and even culturally but how worthless are our 'acts' without Jesus.

      Thanks for making that fact very clear...

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    • Inge, darling, very well... Sometimes we are saying the same but not understanding each other. Communication is a challenge! Specially when little words are appliable. We've got similar ideas!

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    • The only part of what you write that I would question is "We are covered by His righteousness every step of the way - even when we fall..." Would you agree that this is true if repentance follows the conviction of our failure? No one is covered while knowing they sin(does anyone need those scripture references?). When sinning(based on Jame's definition), faith has failed and that soul is where Adam and Eve were on that first day when they ate the forbidden fruit, and were found naked and hiding from God. You border on the teaching of cheap grace if saying the new robe is simply tossed over the old robe. One willful sin brings the wages of death, or God was very unfair to Adam and Eve.

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      • I think Inge put it very well. The old covenant was based on obedience and man failed and will continue to fail when obedience (works) is made his basis of salvation.

        The new covenant is based on surrender to Jesus, and as long as we are surrendered to Jesus, He lives in us and we cannot fail. Yes, we will stumble but we will get back up (Proverbs 24:16).

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        • Sieg, obedience and (entire) surrender to Jesus is the very same thing. Wasn't sure if you realized that.

          Being "saved" is through both justification(forgiveness) and sanctification(obedience of faith). We simply cannot overlook that the redeemed who enter the city of God at last have kept His commandments. They are shown as robed in white, "without spot or wrinkle or any such thing". What does this mean? Jude tells us they will be presented "faultless" before God.

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          • Here is a parable from an old dairy farmer.

            A kind farmer had a cow paddock, filled with rye-grass and clover (cow's favourite food) and he put a barbed wire fence around the paddock to keep out the hungry wolves and to stop the cows from straying into wolf territory. He put his fine herd of Jersey cows in the paddock with instructions to be content and make rich creamy milk. Some cows looked around and saw the rye-grass and clover and realizing they were on a good thing, they settled down to enjoy the feast. They saw that there was a barbed wire fence but it did not bother them.

            Other cows came across the barbed wire fence while they were grazing and became obsessed with it. Why was it there? Why did it have five strands? What was the meaning of the posts? Was there rye-grass and clover on the other side of the fence? They even formed a fence committee to evaluate the fence and consider how they should relate to the fence. They spent more time discussing the fence than eating rye-grass and clover.

            In the meantime the other cows ate grass, grew healthy and strong, and produced rich creamy Jersey milk. And the fence was still there keeping out the wolves and stopping the cows from straying into the wolves territory, but those cows hardly noticed it.

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          • Maurice, as I understand the farmer's parable, it seems outside of this conversation, unless I am not seeing it as you are meaning to present it.

            As I view it, the posts and barbed wire would be relative to what Jesus called "teaching for doctrine the commandments of men" which forced submission and did not allow freedom of choice based on honest conviction while excluding the Gentiles. Those men who were void of God's power(faith working by love) had to generate a "protection" from fear of falling again into the ways of the nations around them. In the process erecting and focusing on the many restrictions, they missed the life-giving blessings given of God, and turned many honest souls away from their "god" of wrath and indignation, failing to evangelize the "wolves", while their few converts were said to be worse than they were.

            Unless I missed it, no one here is referring to any mad-made restrictions (of which there has been plenty) above and beyond the God-given system of teaching the gospel in both the old covenant of prophetic types and the new covenant fulfillment of Christ where the old types are no longer observed being replaced by baptism, the Lord's supper, and foot washing.
            No saving merit in either old or new types, but rich in meaning to those who see God's love exhibited in them. In either old or new, no trace of forced submission or an angry, vengeful God who wishes to isolate His people from those He has sent them to save.

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            • No Bob I am not referring to Man-made doctrines or the commandments of men at all. The issue for me is one of attitude and relationship.

              I have mentioned the analogy of marriage in other threads but it is applicable here. There is a commandment that says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." I am in love with my wife; she is the object of my desire, and while I know the commandment and obey the commandment, it does not loom on my horizon as a big issue. I do not need to wake up every morning and say to myself; "I must not break the adultery commandment", because I am in love with my wife and the notion of adultery is foreign to me. In essence I am a contented cow in the paddock of my marriage and the fence of the law, does not even appear on the horizon. That does not nullify the law but it makes a whole lot of difference to the way I live within the law.

              God wants more that obedience. He wants our love - a relationship - and when we have that relationship then obedience is the result.

              I have to say that if I had to talk every day about adultery and think about it, that would take the fun and enjoyment out of marriage. There is much more to the marriage relationship than "obeying the law. And we have to work on that relationship together - that is part of the joy of marriage.

              Likewise if we get the relationship with God right, then obedience is the fruit of that relationship. I do not deny that we have to work on the relationship but that does not make God love us more. It helps us to appreciate God more.

              The Psalmist says; O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. Ps 38:4

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          • Robert, your understanding of how we are saved appear to be different from mine. You appear to say that we are saved by grace plus works of obedience.

            By contrast, I understand that we are saved by grace through faith, totally apart from works. That's what I read in my Bible in Rom 4:6 and Eph 2:8-9. All the letters of Paul essentially have the same theme - at least in my Bible.

            (Works are the result of Christ in us. They do not contribute to our salvation.)

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          • Robert, please allow me to clarify. Everything we do "in the flesh" is filth. Everything. That includes even the "good" things we do... filth. Our love for others? Filth.

            It is only that which Christ does through us that becomes righteous, holy and perfect. That robe you refer to is not our robe, it is Christ's, wrapped lovingly around us when we surrender to Him. That faultlessness is not ours but Christ's.

            Everything WE claim as contributing to our righteousness and salvation takes EXACTLY that much away from what Christ gave at the cross. Ponder that for a moment. It is truth.

            When we surrender to Jesus and accept Him as our Savior, what matters in judgement is not what God thinks about us, but what God thinks about Jesus, our Substitute (2 Corinthians 5:21).

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          • Beautifully said, Sieg.
            You described the principle of righteousness by faith in Christ, and which is the only righteousness that saves for eternity. It also brings with it the peaceful fullness of key that Jesus promised us.
            Maurice also described it well with his cow parable and his marriage analogy. Christ is our focus, and we are no longer "under the law" because He writes His law within our hearts.

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          • Inge, re your first comment below mine; notice I wrote "obedience of faith", for "whatever is not of faith is sin". It is the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer(Eph 3:14-19), it is the clean garment placed by the Lord on the repentant sinner after his filthy garment is removed(see Zech 3:3-7), and notice the "IF" in verse 7. Can anyone be saved without fulfilling this condition? Are we asked to do what is not possible to do by faith, and "not by power, nor by might, but by My Spirit saith the Lord"?

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          • Robert, I responded to what you said in your previous comment:

            Being "saved" is through both justification(forgiveness) and sanctification(obedience of faith).

            And I replied

            By contrast, I understand that we are saved by grace through faith, totally apart from works. That's what I read in my Bible in Rom 4:6 and Eph 2:8-9. All the letters of Paul essentially have the same theme - at least in my Bible.?

            My argument is not against obedience (when are in Christ, obedience follows naturally), but against the idea that our obedience contributes anything at all to the basis of our salvation. As I understand the foundation of genuine Protestant Christianity, it is that we are saved by grace through faith alone. It is a gift of God. As Sieg so aptly said, anything we ascribe to "contributing" to our salvation takes away from the work of Christ for our salvation.

            Again, in this response you repeat the same false idea - that obedience is a condition to salvation:

            Can anyone be saved without fulfilling this condition?

            Perhaps you got this idea from Christ's words to the rich young ruler, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matt 19:17) But the fact of the matter, no one can "keep the commandments" well enough to be saved or to contribute one iota to his salvation. These words of Christ were the basis of His conversation with the unconverted commandment-keeping ruler to show him his big need, which was Christ Himself. Even at Sinai, where God proclaimed the Ten Commandments, this proclamation was followed by the revelation of the plan of salvation through the sanctuary services which pointed to Christ as the Lamb of God who only would take away the sin of the world. (See John 1:29)

            Paul and Silas said it very clearly, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." (Acts 16:32) They did not say that they should believe and obey and then they would be saved. The obedience comes as a result of salvation. It is not the basis of salvation.

            And in what is considered Paul's clearest presentation of the gospel - Paul's letter to the Romans - he also states clearly, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Again, obedience is not a prerequisite to salvation. It is the effect of salvation. We can't even begin to obey without Christ in us, the hope of glory. See Rom 10:8-10

            In his letter to the Ephesians, Paul added a very important reason for keeping the gospel pure - "lest any man should boast." (Eph 2:9) It is inevitable that when humans believe that God credits any of their works towards salvation, that they will become proud and consider themselves better than others. This manifests itself in our own church as a critical spirit sometimes disguised as spiritual exhortation, and this has the effect of putting up a barrier between Jesus and those who seek Him.

            We need to come to the foot of the cross first - just as we are, with our load of sin and guilt - and accept Jesus as our Saviour. He has promised to take away both our sin and our guilt and has told us that His burden is light. (Matt 11:30) Then being saved by His sacrifice, we continue on our way to "trust and obey because there's no other way to be happy in Jesus, than to trust and obey." That's how we stay "saved." (But notice how the "trust" comes before "obey." It is Christ that enables us to obey.)

            The idea that works contribute in any way to our salvation naturally causes people to think that they must obey, or they cannot be saved. Understanding that they cannot perfectly obey keeps them away from the Savior in whom their only hope lies. It is a damnable distortion of the gospel that is all too prevalent in our church. Ellen White, with Waggoner and Jones, met this distortion head-on in the 1888 GC session, but in some portions of our church, the message is as unwelcome today as it was then.

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  13. Inge, the different comments about covenants are as you said, lacking proper application in some instances. There are over 150 references to covenants in the Bible, not specifically Gods'. The sentence" We are not saved by obedience ........" is very applicable.

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  14. Like a couple that adopts a street-kid and promise to take good care of him. In thankfulness the little boy extend gratitude by being the most obedient child, far be it from him to say it is for his obedience that he is within the gates of the couple, it is by their mercy/grace. Before he knew them they saw him by the streets and purposed in their hearts to adopt him, they prepared a room for him, bought clothes for him, so that when they took him in all was set for him. Before we knew God, he loved us and made all in his power to lead us out of the misery of sin. It is not our effort/deeds that we are saved but but solely his love, but disobedience to such a sacrifice will surely separate us from God, obedience will not secure us a place because already we are saved.

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    • Mandlenkosi,
      Your analogy is quite precise. Obedience is an expression of gratitude that we are saved. It is not the means for salvation. We are saved by grace alone as Paul puts it in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

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  15. God is always faithful enough to meet His part of the covenant. In addition, he is loving and merciful enough to enable and facilitate us meet our part of the covenant to an extent He discharges us from paying the penalty, if only we believe and remain faithful to Him.

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  16. Maurice, I would like to address your reply above where you wrote: "The issue for me is one of attitude and relationship."

    I have always believed that attitude, in regards to God, only reflected one's faith or unbelief, being itself only a symptom of "the issue". For instance, can someone have the right "attitude" of reverence if they don't know God, or have no faith in Him? How does one change their attitude if it only reflects a deeper issue? What was Jesus' focus? I have found Him to focus on faith, the law, and the Goodness of our Father in heaven providing salvation in Christ, and every need supplied by Him. He also has told us that when He returns, He will be looking for faith, with no mention of attitude. In the message to Laodicea, attitude is not mentioned.

    Regarding the issue of relationship, did Adam and Eve have a relationship with God in Eden? Was it more distant or closer than our's today? I mean, they walked together, talked face to face, were taught by God in person! (No one else had to tell them about God.) Was relationship enough to keep them from sinning? We could probably mention Lucifer here as well. How many eons did he stand next to God in his perfection? Yet what eventually happened in that pure atmosphere? Relationship needs more than proximity and familiarity if one will be kept from sinning, or so it would seem. There must be a greater issue than these.

    As for the happy cows, are you saying you have no need to meditate on God's law? No reason to treasure it above gold? Not finding it sweeter than...clover? You seem to be saying there is no need to magnify the law, which is God's clear and precise definition of Divine Love. Are there no sinners left to save? ...

    Now if some believe that any focus on the law is not needed, why does God seem to think otherwise? Of all that God might have addressed from Sinai, what did He speak in the hearing of all Israel from the smoking, thundering peak? Did He speak about attitude or relationship? I believe He did, but in the saving and sanctifying context of His moral and ceremonial(Gospel) law, presenting it to those having a fallen nature where the "divine love" is not natural. In this God was leading sinners to the Living Waters and green pastures. I would suggest comparing the happy cows analogy to the analogies in Ps 1:1-3 and Ps 23. How is the law represented by God in these?

    Last observation: What was to be the great interest of the surrounding nations concerning Israel? See Deut 4:5-8.

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    • I'm not Maurice, but I confess I'm a bit taken aback by the implications of some of your statements.

      You wrote:

      Regarding the issue of relationship, did Adam and Eve have a relationship with God in Eden? Was it more distant or closer than our's today? I mean, they walked together, talked face to face, were taught by God in person! (No one else had to tell them about God.) Was relationship enough to keep them from sinning? We could probably mention Lucifer here as well. How many eons did he stand next to God in his perfection? Yet what eventually happened in that pure atmosphere? Relationship needs more than proximity and familiarity if one will be kept from sinning, or so it would seem. There must be a greater issue than these.

      Are you suggesting that God put Lucifer and Adam and Eve at a disadvantage by not giving them the written law to study? Is then God to blame for sin, because Lucifer and Adam and Eve were not aware of any heavenly law?? If that's not what you meant by there being a "greater issue" than relationship, please explain what you did meant.

      As it is, I find this suggestion quite stunning.

      As I understand it, the very purpose of the Law is to bring us to Christ (Gal 3:24) who is the "end"/goal of the Law. (Ro 10:4) Thus, when we have Christ within, and we are in Him we do not need an external law for He is the very embodiment of the eternal Law of God. (Paul spends considerable time clarifying this in his epistles.)

      Christ Himself says that anyone who has *Him* has eternal life. (Study all of John 6:32-58) Yet you suggest there is a "greater issue" than a relationship with Christ?

      Wasn't the effect of sin a broken relationship with God and the goal of salvation a restored relationship? That's the attraction of heaven - that not only will our personal relationships be enhanced, but our relationship with God will be restored so we may walk and talk with Him as did Adam and Eve in the Garden before they betrayed their relationship with Him by doubting his love.

      Even in Old Testament times, God appealed to Israel as a lover an a bridegroom, making clear that His deepest desire was to have a love relationship with His people.

      I'm also wondering how you define faith without it being an attitude? To me, faith *is* an attitude - an attitude of total trust in God. (This naturally results in doing God's will as well as we are able.)

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