Tuesday: The Most High Rules
Despite his being told to repent and seek God’s forgiveness, Nebuchadnezzar’s unrelenting pride causes the heavenly decree to be executed (Dan. 4:28-33). While the king is walking in his palace and praising himself for what he has accomplished, he is afflicted with a mental condition that forces his expulsion from the royal palace. He may have experienced a pathological mental condition called clinical lycanthropy or zoanthropy. Such a condition leads the patient to act like an animal. In modern times this disease has been called “species dysphoria”, the feeling that one’s body is of the wrong species and, hence, the desire to be an animal.
Read 2 Kings 20:2-5; Jonah 3:10; and Jeremiah 18:7-8. What do these texts tell us about the king’s chance to have averted the punishment?
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Unfortunately, Nebuchadnezzar has to learn the hard way. When invested with royal power, Nebuchadnezzar has no ability to reflect on his relationship with God. Thus, by depriving the king of royal authority and sending him to live with the beasts of the field, God gives the king an opportunity to acknowledge his total dependence on Him. In fact, the ultimate lesson God wants to teach to the arrogant king is that “Heaven rules” (Dan. 4:26, NKJV). Indeed, the judgment upon the king has an even larger purpose in God’s design, as so clearly expressed in the decree of the heavenly beings: “In order that the living may know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, gives it to whomever He will, and sets over it the lowest of men” (Dan. 4:17, NKJV).
In other words, the discipline applied to Nebuchadnezzar should be a lesson for all of us as well. Because we belong to the group of “the living”, we should pay better attention to the main lesson we are supposed to learn that “the Most High rules in the kingdom of men”.
| Why is knowing that the Most High rules so important a lesson for us to learn? How should this knowledge, for instance, impact how we treat those over whom we have power? |
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Let me tell you the story of how I ended up working in a concrete pipe factory. I had it pretty easy through high school. I attended a large boys college in New Zealand which streamed its classes. There were 8 streams in each year and I was in the top stream. When it came time to sit the University Entrance examination I was accredited. That meant that I did not have to sit the examination as I was deemed by my teachers to have done well enough through the year to have passed. I thought I was pretty smart.
At that time Avondale College (the Australian SDA College) was offering the London BSc course, and my father decided that seeing I was interested in science I should go to Avondale and study there. I agreed because it was a bit of an adventure. I would be leaving home and going to a different country and studying for a qualification from a prestigious university. I travelled to Australia by boat at 17 years of age and stated studying science and maths at Avondale. The first hurdle to pass was the entrance examination to London University (GCE-A-level). With smug complacency I sat the examination and failed. That did not worry me too much because out of the 17 students who sat that examination at Avondale College 15 of us failed.
Some students gave up studying science at that stage but I thought that I had learned my lesson have would sit it again the next year. Next year I failed the maths examination. I had bad feeling about the exam as soon as I sat it. I knew that London University offered the examination twice a year and so I applied to sit the failed subject in the January examination. It took about 3 months for London University to mark the examinations and get the results back. That meant that if I passed I would be out of step the rest of the course and I could not sit the next lot of examinations for 18 months.
So I went back home to New Zealand much to my embarrassment. My father thought that it would be a good idea for me to get a job and earn some money to pay for my College fees. So I ended up working in a concrete pipe factory. It was completely foreign to me. Not only did I have to work hard. My job title was a "Stripper". It is not what you think it is. We had to strip the moulds off the concrete pipes. We an 11 hour day (12 hours a day sometimes), and when I came home I was really tired. On top of that the guys in the factory spoke a language that, while I understood it, it was completely foreign to me. Every second word was swear word and they only had two topics; footy (Rugby Union football) and sheilas (girls). It was terrible and the only good thing about it was that I was paid well. After several months of this I received the results from London University that I had passed my Maths examination. It was then that I hatched a plan. I would go back to Avondale College and audit the final term so that I would be well prepared to sit what were called the Part 1 London University examinations the following year.
I look back on those months spent working in the concrete pipe factory as my years in the grass like Nebuchadnezzar. The examination failures and the subsequent manual labour in a job that I did not really like was a shock treatment for my brain and I have to say that after that experience, I never failed another examination, and I ultimately passed my London BSc with second class - upper level honours.
There is a corollary to that story. Years later, when it was in my power to pass and fail students, I had the experience of failing a talented lazy student. He came to my office, with tears, grovelling on the floor, pleading for me to give him a pass so that he could continue his course. I explained to him that was not how it worked. He had to produce the goods to pass the course. He had to hand in assignments and pass examinations. I told him my story with the admonition that he leave College for a year and do some work. To his credit he followed my advice. 12 months later he was back in my class and this time he passed with flying colours. He graduated 3 years later and at his graduation he came and thanked me and reminded me of the confrontation we had had in my office. He said, that was the best thing that every happened to me. "It sorted my brain out."
We are responsible for our own failures but God can use those failures to teach us and ultimately encourage us.
Your experience is, indeed, a good parallel. I suspect that's what made you not only a good student but also a great teacher. 🙂
Thanks for sharing!
Without the Holy Spirit to guide us to do His will for us, His children will be lost. Give up your life and you will receive it. Both here and for eternity. Only God is good.
Amen
I had a similar epiphany in my education journey. I was the youngest of 4 and by the time I came along, my parents just kind of left me alone. The older kids had gotten all the discipline and I just skated by. Consequently in High School, I was in “skate by” mode. I did not fail anything but I just got by with my C+ average.
After graduating, I did not know if I want to go to college so I got a job putting blowing wool (insulation) in older homes in the San Fernando Valley north of Los Angeles. In an attic with a low 4 pitch roof and 100’F outside, it would get to 120’ + in that small space crawling around. Like you, it paid well back in those days for a HS graduate but it convinced me to go back to school to start college. When I did, I was a serious student and graduated with honors from Andrews University.
God has His way to teach each of us to open our eyes. Hopefully we recognize the moment and respond favorably to His instruction.
Today's lesson suggests that Nebuchadnezzar may have experienced a mental condition. It then asks the question "What do these texts tell us about the king’s chance to have averted the punishment?" Thus, it is proposed that Nebuchadnezzar may have been given a mental condition by God as punishment. The lesson then goes on to state that this was done to teach Nebuchadnezzar the lesson that heaven (God) rules.
It is true that God rules - or as Nebuchadnezzar declared in Daniel 4:35, "He does according to His will in the host of heaven". But what does this mean and what form does it take?
The lesson also describes what happened to Nebuchadnezzar as "discipline" that was applied.
There is a significant distinction between the concepts of punishment and discipline. True discipline involves releasing someone to the consequences that naturally follow from their actions while punishment invokes 'artificially' imposing contrived consequences that otherwise wouldn't naturally happen.
One of Satan's core accusations that has been insinuated against God is that God is arbitrary - that God rules by imposing contrived consequences that wouldn't otherwise happen. This notion of arbitrary, whilst intended by Satan to mis portray God, has actually provided us with a 'litmus test' to help us see if a given portrayal of God reflects truth or whether it's is reflective of Satan's misportrayal.
Which explanation better matches the truth of God's nature, character and therefore His methods and motivations? And which one also matches how reality operates? That God is out to teach us a lesson that He rules? Or that God is trying to help us grow in our understanding of how reality operates by trying to warn us of the natural consequences of the path we are taking and then, if we choose to ignore His warnings, allow us to experience the unfortunate natural/reality-based consequences of that path in the hope that such will lead us to realise first-hand what we are actually doing?
Thus, could it be that God, in compassion, was actually trying to avert the mental condition that Nebuchadnezzar was on the path to developing? And could it be that, because of His commitment to freedom, God allowed Nebuchadnezzar to exercise his freedom to continue in the path of pride and arrogance (which can inherently only lead to destruction) - which therefore meant releasing Nebuchadnezzar to natural/reality based consequences that were the inherent and therefore inevitable natural results of Nebuchadnezzar's free will choice?
As Jesus came to show us, God is a God who is full to the brim of truth and grace (John 1:14, 16). And yes, God is also a God of judgment - but not the type of judgment that we typically understand.
In a nutshell, God's 'judgment' is simply the revealing of the reality that is in existence. It is not God determining anything or taking action against us (both of which are arbitrary-based phenomena). It is 'simply' God diagnosing the reality that is and providing a prognosis of where that will lead (consider how this matches with what is going on in Daniel 4 with Nebuchadnezzar). As a start to checking out what I am suggesting regarding the notion of God's judgement, see John 3:18-21 and 1 Corinthians 4:5.
Phil, I fully agree with your statement that
Yet, as a parent, grand-parent and teacher, I don't see that distinction between discipline and punishment is always that clear - whether with our children or God with His children.
Yes, ideally, children will experience the "natural consequences" of bad behavior. But natural consequences may not be as speedily forthcoming as is helpful or they may be too dangerous to allow. Thus good parents and good teachers regularly impose discipline (or "punishment") that comes as near to "natural consequences" as is practical. Discipline is meant to cause a changed mindset that results in better course of action. And that's exactly what God did with Nebuchadnezzar.
I don't see God passively standing back and allowing only "natural consequences" to happen as discipline any more than what good parents do with their children. I believe he actively intervenes and imposes consequences/discipline that are best designed to cause His children to have a change of heart. That's the way the Bible narrative naturally reads unless a preconceived filter is imposed upon it.
I'd like to propose that a "natural interpretation" rather than an imposed interpretation may be even more important than a stress on "natural consequences." That said, I believe that death is most truly the natural consequence of sin. Yet God doesn't always wait for the natural consequence to happen. He actively intervened to destroy evil doers at the time of Noah in order to preserve His plan for the world. He actively intervened in the case of Korah, Dathan and Abiram to preserve the respect necessary for His representatives to be able to influence His people in a direction that would result in eternal life. And there are many other such examples. (Yes, I have seen them "explained away," but the explanations are never a natural interpretation but the result of a preconceived human filter imposed upon Scripture.)
I am fully convinced that our Creator God is a God of pure disinterested love. He does all in His power to save as many as will allow themselves to be saved. The problem is that "love" is a slippery word in the English language and too often refers to a fleeting emotion. We must allow our understanding of God's love to be shaped by what the Bible reveals. It reveals a self-sacrificing attitude of beneficence, and it also demonstrates that God's love includes active discipline in a manner that is most naturally seen as "punishment," but it is not punishment for the sake of punishment, but discipline to cause a change of heart, if possible. Thus active discipline is not out of harmony with God's love. It seems to me that the concept that His love cannot include active intervention that doesn't feel good is a human concept superimposed on the biblical narrative.
In my view, interpretations that necessitate the reinterpretation of hundreds of clear Bible texts to fit a paradigm that is not spelled out in the Bible but imposed on it by human preconceptions of what God's love is supposed to look like are not helpful to demonstrate what God is really like.
It is natural for man to seek "natural" explanations for supernatural events. I found the explanation for Nebuchadnezzar's behavior somewhat puzzling... "zoanthropy"???
Why not just explain what happened to King Nebuchadnezzar as a miracle caused by God? Why resort to explanations that diminish God's power and authority?
Both mental conditions mentioned in the lesson are delusional in nature and cannot explain how a man could eat grass for 7 years and live.
Same goes for what happened to Sodom, Gemorrah and Lot's wife. God caused it. He can do that. He is God.
I hear what you are saying Sieg, but I am also aware that God is quite capable of using natural events too. I remind myself from time-to-time that God is the God of the natural as well as the supernatural. By the way I am also not sure that attaching a big word to Nebuchadnezzars behaviour is all the useful either. One explanation that I came across was that he became interested in farming and left Babylon for a period to become a farmer. I don't attach a lot of credence to that particular story either, because there is really no concrete evidence. The miracle was, I believe, that the Word of God was persevered through this period.
Hi Inge. Thanks again for feedback and dialogue/debate.
Yes, we use analogies but I would propose they have limits. I do not believe God uses contrived 'consequences' - all the 'discipline' that I see Him providing is embedded in reality (non-arbitrary). Yes, I too have previously noted that with respect to our capacity for discipline of children, there are many times when reality consequences are inappropriate to apply to children and therefore alternatives are more appropriate. But I do not find God in this same situation. He is able to always apply naturally-embedded/non-arbitrary consequences in the best possible way.
In everything that I have said across my many posts, I am nowhere proposing that God is merely standing back "passively". I believe God is active in all situations and circumstances - even when God is allowing things to happen. Not being the 'generative force' of something is not the same to me as being passive. I can no longer find evidence that God is the 'generative force' behind destruction even though destruction is the outcome of certain situations that God is 'orchestrating' within (eg the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Uzzah and the ark, etc). Each situation has a complex array of 'dynamics/factors' (some of which are people, principalities and powers) that are interplaying and God is working within that reality.
With regard to the notion of an "imposed" interpretation, as far as I can see I am applying a natural interpretation: looking carefully into passages, comparing scripture with scripture across scripture and also comparing that which emerging knowledge is discovering (or more likely re-discovering) regarding the role of contextual factors and more. I am looking deeply and carefully into things more than I have ever done in the past - all the while asking God to guide me and if I am heading down a wrong path, to shut me down. I am not implying anything about anyone else's interpretation - I can only comment on my own. I have previously noted that there are others who are reporting similar 're-interpretations' such as Alden Thompson, Sigve Tonstad and Jean Sheldon. If it was just me, I'd be very concerned. I acknowledge that there is a movement within academia amongst so-called Christian theologians to discredit the Bible. The authors that I am referring to are not of that orientation. (If the fruit is the indicator of what is going on, my 'relationship' with God is being grown stronger and stronger by what I am learning - though it is a very uncomfortable process at times. But it is so worth it!)
Believe me, my ever-unfolding understanding of God's Agape love has nothing to do with the love that is mere fleeting emotion. I would agree that God's love involves active discipline - but I would no longer agree that it involves active punishment with punishment defined as the implementation of non-naturally-embedded consequences. The reason for this is that non-naturally-embedded consequences are by nature arbitrary and this is something that I find that Satan has accused God of being. This is why I believe the notion of arbitrary is a 'litmus test' to our interpretation of how God is intervening. Thus, while Satan appears to have intended the allegation of arbitrary to bring God down, it is this very allegation that will in fact vindicate God and His way of abundant life.
With specific reference to "interpretations that necessitate the reinterpretation of hundreds of clear Bible texts to fit a paradigm that is not spelled out in the Bible but imposed on it by human preconceptions", I would invite you to read Alden Thompson's "Whose afraid of the Old Testament God" and also "Inspiration: Hard Questions, Honest Answers" as Alden deals precisely with this issue in great detail. I'd be interested in your thoughts regarding Alden's work...
Phil, much depends on what you consider "natural/embedded consequences."
If God is the Upholder and Source of all life, as we believe, then "natural embedded consequences" would always be immediate cessation of life upon human choice of independence from God.
But we know that God doesn't usually allow such consequences any more than parents allow children to embark on a self-destructive path when they can prevent it.
As I have indicated before, I agree with you on your understanding of the character of God - that He is completely selfless and loving and desires only the best for His children. That, of course, is also the theme of Alden Thompson's and Sigve Tonsted's teachings.
I must confess that when I read *Inspiration* decades ago I found myself in total agreement with the first half of the book which dealt with principles and in disagreement with much of the second half of the book that dealt with application. I found his book faith-affirming while others found it faith-destroying. (Sadly I know one Walla Walla University student who totally lost his spiritual bearings as a result of such teachings.) Perhaps that was because they focused on the second half of the book which attributed to natural causes so many of the events which most of us have seen as God's miraculous intervention in human affairs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that your "natural/embedded consequences" are the same as "natural causes."
It seems to me that those who assign miracles of apparently negative divine intervention don't stop there but do the same for positive interventions, such as healing. (That may not be the case for you, but it is a logical extension.)
I find it much safer to take bible writers at their word when they say "God did it." (When other writers say of the same event that "Satan did it," it provides context that demonstrates that God takes full responsibility for what He allows.)
I would like to repeat Sieg Hoppe's words: "Why not just explain what happened to King Nebuchadnezzar as a miracle caused by God? Why resort to explanations that diminish God's power and authority?"
That said, if a different perspective strengthens your relationship with God, I wouldn't want to interfere with that.
Thanks for your reply Inge - including your perspective re the book "Inspirations".
If I were to respond further, I would be needing to write an essay. So given these issues will come up again in the course of the lesson study, I will leave it to other times to do so if that is ok.
Phil
Phil, may I say that the evaluation of God the Creator you just expressed is why so many of us church “members” are returning to God with not just relief, but incredible and indescribable joy. God is trying to save us, not condemn us (John 3: 16-17). And there’s more to be discovered...
However, regarding discipline and punishment, it seems that the second death is the eternal consequence for sin (James 1:14,15; Rom 6:23), not imposed punishment. Is it possible that most discipline or efforts to teach, are contrived? Perhaps contrived from lessons learned from observing actions/reactions and consequences?
Hi Gary
Thanks for your comments. I am finding others too saying the same things - the joy they are experiencing in their renewed relationship with God who is exclusively trying to save. I have surrendered myself to God to use me in this way if He wants, and my prayer is that God will increase and I will decrease in the eyes of people.
With regard to your question (if I am understanding what you are asking/proposing), terms are often used rather loosely at times - especially across time. So I would concur that much of what is portrayed as or labelled discipline is in fact punishment if it involves any contrived consequence. There is a time and a place for use of punishment by us as humans because of our limitations as humans. God does not suffer from these same limitations and is therefore able to, in my opinion, exclusively utilise true discipline rather than contrived punishment - and therefore be non-arbitrary, which I believe Him to be by nature.
Again, Phil, I must gently object to your suggestion that prayerfully "contrived" discipline is not "true discipline."
And if God actively caused Nebuchadnezzar's mental condition, as Daniel tells it and Nebuchadnezzar appears to acknowledge, it is not any less "true discipline" than if his condition were a "natural consequence." To me, at least, the way the bible tells it *is* true discipline.
I would like understand how you see this view as being inimical to the loving character of God.
Thanks Inge
I welcome your objection - iron sharpening iron.
In a nutshell regarding the point about this view being inimical to the loving character of God, the core allegation by Satan of God as arbitrary-based (including His love as also being arbitrary-based) is a key factor in the equation that I would propose must also be addressed. That would take an essay to unpack further and so will likely come up again in the course of further lessons... so I will have more to say on this down the track as relevant and appropriate.
Phil
Well, you may see things differently, but carefully calculated discipline/punishment to bring about a desired response is anything but "arbitrary" in my view. 🙂
That's why it is not in the least inimical to God's character of self-less love.
Oppression of the poor and slavery of humanity have been in existence from time immemorial and from all indications this very pervasive devious insanity seems unending even in this so called modern society.
It is a great pity though, that great king Nebuchadnezzar did not acknowledge the instructions of God through Daniel or he would have realized that “He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.” (Proverbs 22:16) That was his fate. Poor proud Nebuchadnezzar.
There is a Jamaican colloquial expression that goes like this, "Hard ears pickney dead a bush."There is also another like this, "If you caan hear you we feel" They both carry a similar meaning - "If you continue to disobey you will suffer the consequences." This has proven true time and again. Here is the corollary with King Nebuchadnezzaf, he just did not listen or comply. Pride, haughtiness, boastfulness and arrogance obsessed him so a demeaning, humiliating and embarrassing consequence was his lot - that of becoming an animal. Wow! That's what it took for him to understand who run things. Who is in control or who rule.
Let us be mindful that a similar lot does not attend us. Let us in humble obedience do the will of God and acknowledge His Sovereignty. Heaven rules.
God is a God of love. He is Love, he sends the Holy Spirit to speak to humans to correct things not going the right direction.
The author said in today lesson “He may have experienced a pathological mental condition called clinical lycanthropy or zoanthropy. Such a condition leads the patient to act like an animal. In modern times this disease has been called “species dysphoria”, the feeling that one’s body is of the wrong species and, hence, the desire to be an animal”.
We have to be careful how we understand and interpret the Bible because clinical lycanthropy means-
Lykos in Greek means wolf. Anthropos means man. The combination of both is Lycanthropy.
Clinical lycanthropy is a rare psychiatric syndrome with the delusional belief that one is a werewolf. They grunt, claw, and feel their body is covered with hair and their nails are elongated — some people strongly believe they are in the process of metamorphosis into a wolf.Apr 16, 2014.
Nebuchadnezzar didn’t believe he was an animal or something like one, but Daniel 4:28-33 was real and not a fable. The king lifted his heart above God like Satan, the “I”, every praise was to him and about him.
Werewolves movies are movies with Satan as the masterpiece. Turning humans into a lower class of animal where both superstition and psychiatric disorders are linked with beliefs in animal guardian spirits, vampires, totemism, witches and werewolves.
Thank you Maurice for sharing, very encourage .
Thank you Ashton I love your comments there are an inspiration.