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Wednesday: The Investigative Judgment — 33 Comments

  1. The issue that we have with the 2300 day prophecy is that we are talking about an event that we cannot see, or hear that we believe commenced 176 years ago. To the modern secular mind, limited to those things we can physically experience, and with an attention span of the length of a TV sitcom, such an event is nonsense. While we are counting the numbers and doing the sums and introducing new terminology, the world is becoming more secular and less interested, let alone concerned with the notion of judgement and finality.

    I am not denying the investigative judgement, but if we believe it is relevant we need to get outside our cocoon of a highly structured belief that we understand ourselves but have difficulty in communicating to others. 176 years is a long time - 6 or 7 generations. What have we got to say to a needy world who does not even understand the language anymore?

    And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15 NKJV

    No excuses!

    • If we give the truth as God has given it to us, the Holy Spirit will be able to convict even the most careless and indifferent. We have our part clearly defined in the great commission, but the Holy Spirit does what we cannot do in our part, but the Spirit cannot do our part and remains unable to convict any if we remain indifferent ourselves and continue to live as the world lives.

      • Maurice, I see what you’re saying, and it does sometimes seem a little daunting at times, but I believe all the prophecies are there for us, to guide us as we see things on our world unraveling. They are there for those who do want to know and understand truth. As Robert has mentioned, the Holy Spirit will guide us. I think perhaps these prophecies have been misused, but like everything else that has been misused and misrepresented, there is truth in them that we should know. This wouldn’t be the opening bible study with a new Christian, but as the Holy Spirit leads, the understanding of them will be brought to a seeking mind.
        I hope you don’t take this as criticism, it’s just the way I look at all of Old Testament prophecies.

    • Perhaps, with all that is happening on the planet, people might be more interested in the study of prophecies, or at least fond of religious subjects. We sure can seize this opportunity, and as I saw this great south American 7th-day Adventist retired preacher, Mr. Bullon, "we can only grow in Christ (the gospel) as we announce Him (it) to others"! May we put this into practice, because now is the time more than ever... as Christians, we can only receive more light if we pass on the light we already have. (The example given by this pastor was a cup filled with water, that to retain more it is necessary to empty it).

    • Maurice, yes - there are no more excuses!
      I was introduced to the Adventist family of faith at a Prophecy Seminar, being a member of the Pentecostal family of believers at that time. Seeing promotions for the event, my curiosity lead me to attend this seminar, but the Holy Spirit was guiding my curiosity.
      I left the Pentecostal faith-family because, even though the Pastor agreed with my newly gained insights about worshipping God on Sabbath and related matters regarding endtime-events, he could not influence the denomination's administration without loosing his job. He decided to remain in his office.

      If I were a high administrative official in the Adventist administration, I would start to vigorously promote the return to the 'new' focus/direction which prompted the Advent movement to be formed in 1844.
      There is no more time to waste with 'beating around the bush'. We need to come back to our main mission - 'to preach the Gospel to every creature'. All other teaching efforts are secondary to this mission-focused approach.

      My proposal is to start with providing in-depth education regarding the 'Three Angels' messages, the time-table and related end-time prophecies to all the church members.
      Their attendance would be highly encouraged, as it provides needed understanding for themselves and to be prepared to share it with all they come in contact with. Supporting print material (like a quarterly lession guide) and other teaching tools would be provided.

      After the training, members so motivated, become teachers to conduct prophecy study groups and are supported, using the same learning-material to conduct ongoing prophecy seminaries for the interested public within their churches or as an individualized homestudy group.
      Individual teachers can specialize their presentations to the needs, intellectual or otherwise, of the attendee(s).
      Once a year, a special Prophecy Seminar is offered to the whole community, held by a group send for that purpose from the individual conference headquarters.

      The ongoing prophecy seminars would meet on a weekly basis (or more often if so arranged by the teacher) and conclude after approximately 3 month after which a new one is started. Some participants, not fully satisfied with their learning, might want to stay on for another round of studies.

      All people involved in leading these seminars are church members having attended the preparatory prophesy seminarie sessions conducted by their church.
      People involved in follow-up ministry would be the entire church and their established ministries.

      Doing this work, I see great blessings come to all - the lost, the seeker, the individual member of the faith community, and the members and leadership within our own congregations.
      A new, powerful 'Spirit of Purpose' will rejuvenate all and lead us to praise and worship our great and mercyful God!

  2. The dialogue in Daniel 8 highlights the cleansing of the sanctuary as something vital to understand. The command to "rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein" found in Revelation 11 highlights this judgment again. We must come to see the importance of this teaching if we are to take the gospel to the world. Notice that the everlasting Gospel being given in a loud voice highlights the "hour of His judgment"? This judgment is the goal of the gospel, which is "the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes". Salvation is being freed from our sinful nature by the power of God in all who believe(what does it mean to "believe"?) so that we may be found "faultless" and thus fit to dwell with a Holy God. If not faultless, we will be found wanting, and unfit for the company of holy beings.

    This judgment is vindication for those found faithful, while those found to be unfaithful will be passed over to the judgment of the "dead"(Rev 20) before the great white throne.

  3. The Bible prophecy on investigative judgement is a sure one. However, prior to this, God had already been judging people for example.
    • God judged Lucifer over his sin, and Lucifer was cast to the earth.
    • God judged the wickedness of Sodom and Gommorah during the time of Lot and He burnt the two cities.
    • God judged the wickedness during the time of Noah and send flood to wipe the entire world except 8 and the selected animals.
    There a numerous stories of judgement been proclaim on people by God that resulted in deaths or punishments.
    What is the difference between those judgement and the Investigative judgement that began in 1844?

  4. I am not well versed in the doctrines of other denominations but I believe this investigative judgement doctrine is unique to the Seventh-day Adventist church.

    To me it makes sense that if God is returning and His reward is with Him that there had to have been some form of judgement that took place prior to that return. I'm still learning as I study the prophecies but I feel that this makes logical sense.

    I agree with Maurice. If our goal is to effectively communicate with those outside of our faith (and this should be our goal as Christians) then we need to learn to remove as many obstacles to their understanding as we can as we see them. We shouldn't simply want to communicate to them. We should want to effectively communicate which will involve a dialogue not a monologue.

    Are we really trying to reach the secular mind with the truth as we understand it? We should be but I fear most of us are not.

  5. One contemporary resource for understanding the relevance of the pre-advent judgement is Marcus Torres' "The Death and Rebirth of the Investigative Judgement" available from thestorychurchproject.com. You can also find the articles in the Compass Magazine on line archives. It offers a simple, scriptural explanation of the IJ that speaks to the 21st century mind. I highly recommend it.

    • Richard,

      Thank you for referring me to the Compass Magazine and Marcus Torres and Mike Manena and their articles on the Investigative Judgment, they really have opened my mind on the issue.

  6. Would someone explain the significance of the prophecy of Daniel 9:25 where it says "There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks"? Was the seven weeks how long it took to restore and rebuild Jerusalem?

    • Hi Connie.
      I will attempt to answer your question. First the Kjv bible reads like this on the verse you ask about.
      Dan 7 Vs 25 "Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times".

      So when you consider a score to equal 20 then the time prophecy in the verse adds up to 69 weeks( 7weeks + 3x20= three score)+2weeks.This is the time from the going forth of the command to build Jerusalem to Messiah the Prince or the anointing of Jesus as the Messiah.

      This anointing happened at his baptism in the year 27 A.D. So 69 weeks = 483 days which is 483 prophetic years. The decree to build Jerusalem went forth in 457 BC. So by mathematics we arrive at 27 A.D. However this verse is not clear when you read it in the ESV version of the bible which this platform is using by default.

      I wonder why the authors or editors use substandard versions of the bible to study the scriptures especially this lesson which is about the scriptures themselves. To an intent reader the verse you have pointed out has changed so much in meaning in the ESV bible. Where the Kjv reads " Unto the Messiah the Prince" making Him to be specific, the ESV reads " an anointed one, a prince" thus watering down the message and making any of these present day self proclaimed anointed men of God qualify as a biblical messiah.

      I find it disturbing when leading forums that are to teach truth use versions that are misleading. I hope i have answered your question about the 7 weeks. The full stop is on the wrong place in this version. Its 69 weeks to the Messiah the Prince.

      • I had an interesting discussion on the topic of translation with one of my friends who is an ancient language scholar. The conversation centred around the mandate to translate the King James Version so that it conformed to Church of England theology. (Incidentally, you can read my article on this topic here:
        A Short History of the King James Version

        My friend told me that the KJV translators were asked to ensure that the prophecies were Messianic in intent. In spite of that mandate, he maintains that they did a really good job of translation from the source material they used at that time. For them accuracy of translation was more important than the mandate. However, it does show up a couple of times where messianic words were used in the translation rather than alternatives. He is not saying the translation is wrong, but that their choice of words reflects the mandate. Later translations had different agendas and other source materials as well, and consequently their choice of words in the translation is somewhat different. For those of us that are familiar with the wording of the KJV the more recent translations are often less appealing simply because they are unfamiliar. In practice they rarely change the intended meaning of the original author.

        In the case of Dan 7:25. "Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times". The Hebrew word for Messiah is "Mashiach" and the literal translation for this is "an annointed one". In this sense and in this instance the ESV is a more accurate translation. And to be quite honest I don't think it changes the meaning from what we expect by reading the KJV.

    • The prophecy suggests two different periods: seven weeks, and then sixty-two weeks. But, disappointingly, none of the traditional interpretations of the seven weeks offer a chronology of the seven weeks that can be verified from the Bible and from documented history. There is no single period of 69 weeks. The best I can offer is that the seven weeks is a symbolic period, based on the ancient idea of 49 years for the Jubilee year. Note that the term "seventy" occurs at the start of Daniel 9, as Daniel meditates on Jeremiah's prophecy, which he believed was due for fulfillment.

      There are many such textual problems in this passage.

  7. Why do we care about 2300 years prophecy and the 1844 date? - because we believe that the start of the Seventh-day Adventist church with its special mission summarize in the three angel's messages (the hour of God's judgement has come) was a fulfillment of prophecy.

    But what else was happening in the Religious World in that time? According to Wikipedia these are some of the events between 1840-1849.
    Religion and philosophy
    The American Transcendentalism movement is in full form mostly during this decade.
    June 6, 1841 Marian Hughes becomes the first woman to take religious vows in communion with the Anglican Province of Canterbury since the Reformation, making them privately to E. B. Pusey in Oxford.[58]
    July 31, 1841 – Scottish missionary David Livingstone arrives at Kuruman in the Northern Cape, his first posting in Africa.
    May 18, 1843 – The Disruption in Edinburgh of the Free Church of Scotland from the Church of Scotland.
    October 16, 1843 – Søren Kierkegaard's philosophical book Fear and Trembling is first published.
    March 21, 1844 – The Bahá'í calendar begins.
    March 23, 1844 – Edict of Toleration, allowing Jews to settle in the Holy Land.
    May 23, 1844 – Persian Prophet The Báb privately announces his revelation to Mullá Husayn, just after sunset, founding the Bábí faith
    August 8, 1844 – During a meeting held in Nauvoo, Illinois, the Quorum of the Twelve, headed by Brigham Young, is chosen as the leading body of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
    October 22, 1844 – This second date, predicted by the Millerites for the Second Coming of Jesus, leads to the Great Disappointment. The Seventh-day Adventist Church denomination of the Christian religion believe this date to be the starting point of the Investigative judgment just prior to the Second Coming of Jesus as declared in the 26th of 28 fundamental doctrines of Seventh-day Adventists.[59]
    October 23, 1844 – The Báb publicly proclaimed to be the promised one of Islam (the Qá'im, or Mahdi). He is also considered to be simultaneously the return of Elijah, John the Baptist, and the "Ushídar-Máh" referred to in the Zoroastrian scriptures.[60] He announces to the world the coming of "He whom God shall make manifest". He is considered the forerunner of Bahá'u'lláh, 1844 – the founder of the Bahá'í Faith, 1844 – whose claims include being the return of Jesus.
    October 9, 1845 – The eminent and controversial Anglican, John Henry Newman, is received into the Roman Catholic Church.
    February 10, 1846 – Many Mormons begin their migration west from Nauvoo, Illinois, to the Great Salt Lake, led by Brigham Young.
    June 16, 1846 – Pope Pius IX succeeds Pope Gregory XVI as the 255th pope. He will reign for 31½ years (the longest definitely confirmed).
    September 19, 1846 – The Virgin Mary is said to have appeared to two children in La Salette, France.
    1848 – John Bird Sumner becomes archbishop of Canterbury.
    March 28, 1849 – Four Christians are ordered burnt alive in Antananarivo, Madagascar by Queen Ranavalona I and 14 others are executed.

    • Thank you, Shirley - reading through your compilation of events having occured between 1840 and 1849 gives me a new appreciation of the spiritual 'warfare' conducted by heavenly powers for the saving of souls.

      One can easily trace these events back to the promise that started when we received the 'Early Rain' at Pentecost which will be followed up by Him to give us the 'Latter Rain' before the 'Great and terrible Day of the Lord' comes upon the world.

      When I Googled 'latter rain', I came across a very insightful, biblically referenced website containing a letter that expounds on the use of God's gifts of the Holy Spirit to all who work in the fields as the Remnant after the time of the 'Latter Rain'.
      The 'Latter Rain' is God's Holy Spirit given to empower and bless the end-time ministry of the Remnant when calling everyone to come out of Babylon.

    • I also believe that the 2300 day prophecy and 1844 is important to understand because it is shown in the vision as being important, and it is true. It is given for us to understand(Prov 22:20,21) because it is a vital part of the last message given to save sinners from sin and the deceptions of the Adversary.

      Truth sets one free.

  8. My husband and I had a very interesting experience one time, while visiting the ruins of the city of Tulum Mexico. For $5 extra, we could get a private tour. The young man who was our guide was very knowledgeable on Mayan history and the history of that city and shared a lot with us. At some point in the tour, he shared that in the year 1844, there was a huge spiritual awakening in the part of the country we were in. We discussed that at great length with him, and shared briefly that the church we belong to was begun at that time out of that same spiritual awakening. So something happened all over the world in 1844, that began to open peoples minds to more spiritual understanding.

  9. There are two identifiers of the subject in Daniel 8:13-14, one is the word “taw-meed” H8548, the other is the word “ko'-desh”H6944, both words identify the same subject.

    From Strong's for “taw-meed” we have: “continuance (as indefinite extension); perpetual”, and for “ko'-desh”: “hallowed (thing), holiness,”.

    Please consider why these two words can not be applied to daily sacrifice in the Sanctuary, because daily sacrifice and Sanctuary are not perpetual, do not have “indefinite extension”, only Shabbat is perpetual and of infinite extension.

    Golgotha was the final sacrifice once and for all, New Jerusalem will not have a Temple/Sanctuary, only Jesus the Messiah and His Shabbat have infinite extension, are perpetual.

    Correctly interpreted Daniel 8:13-14 reads: ”2300 evenings and mornings Shabbat will be restored to the Sanctuary the Christian Church”,
    This interpretation is derived from the Hebrew root word for "ko'-desh found in Genesis 2:3, this same method is used by Daniel to decipher the writing on the wall in Dan ch.5
    Facts on the ground after the disappointment in 1844 also confirm this interpretation, Dan 8:13-14 was fulfilled here on earth by the raising up of the Seventh Day Adventist movement, our primary mission is to restore the Decalogue in the multi-denominational Christian Church.

    Regarding the Day of Atonement typology, the words in Lev 16:5 are "two hairy", that is two "saw-eer"H8163, the first use of this word is in Gen 27:11 for Esau, his twin brother Jacob becomes the second "saw-eer" in order to receive the blessing from Isaac, and then becomes "saw-eer azazel" when escaping to Laban. This is the typology for Lev 16:5, primary typology is Esau, Jacob, Isaac, secondary typology is Christians, Jews, Jesus. Day of Atonement sacrifice is triune sacrifice. On Golgotha there are three crosses, Jesus and two sinners, one represents Christians and the other represents the Jewish nation.
    Ellen White in her "Unusual Statement on the scapegoat" confirms this.

    • Henry, I believe we must consider the importance in the definition of the words you shared, and realize the vital truth of the sacrifice which in the type was offered "continually" in connection with the sanctuary services. There is no type for Shabbat, or any of the commandments, and none needed. However, in the type we see the reality today don't we? Remember, the papacy "cast truth to the ground" and took away the "continual". In reality, they replaced the grace of God through the blood of Jesus, which today is continually offered for sinners, though Jesus died only once, and instead, the papal power required penance and a price for remission of sins confessed. There is no salvation in works of penance and this is why heaven regards this as "the abomination of desolation" for it leaves the sinner desolate, and without hope. The reformation began to restore the truth of how sinners must be saved "by grace through faith" and this understanding has matured to a correct understanding of the type shown in the sacrifices offered "continually". Today we teach that "the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness" in a perpetual offering for sinners until all have made their final choice, then probation closes.

      Yes, the Shabbat was replaced with a false day and this too will be restored in the life that is cleansed by Jesus' blood. However, without the continual offering of the blood of Jesus, the Shabbat will become a mere outward "work" of legalism won't it? If there is no remission for sin, of what use is there for keeping the law? No blood = no salvation for sinners, and we cannot be saved by keeping the law.

      The teaching of the present judgment taking place now(as shown in the TYPE of the day of atonement, on which the blood of the Lord's goat propitiated for Israel) shows that time for repentance is waning, and soon, "he that is....let him be....still" will be announced, and Jesus will come with His reward to give every man according to his works. Yes, saved by "grace through faith", but judged by our works. Why? Works reveal either faith or unbelief and by our works we will be justified or condemned. (For those who will protest, our works are of faith in Christ, and not of our own ability or power, for "the gospel is the power of GOD unto salvation to everyone who believes"(Rom 1:16). Faith without corresponding works is dead, and actually, is only unbelief. If connected to the Vine by faith, the result will be the fruit of the Spirit seen in good works of the sanctified life.)

      Yes, the Shabbat is part of the new life in Christ and will be observed by all who are redeemed by His blood.

      • Thank you Robert for your comment, the word azazel in some Semitic dialects means God fighter, the name Israel has the same meaning God fighter, this is confirmation that the scapegoat in Lev 16:5 is Jacob.
        The ram represents Isaac see Gen 22:13.
        O.R.L. Crosier suggested that azazel is the evil one, Ellen White went along with this, but she wrote in her "unusual statement" that it was the Jews and Jesus, not the evil one, that is the anti-type in Lev 16:5

        • Henry, those are rather interesting ideas you present. However, how can the scapegoat be Jacob or the Ram Isaac?
          Is Jacob to bear the sins of the redeemed away forever, and is their any other sacrifice for sin other than Christ, the "Lamb of God", "whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation"? The ram in Gen 22 was from God to spare Isaac(representing the seed of Abraham, which includes all who believe in Christ[Gal 3:29]) from death as stated in Rom 3:25. Only Jesus' death for sinners can atone for sin.

          Do you have the reference for Ellen's "unusual statement" on Lev 16:5 that you mention? I found only two references for that verse and neither confirm this idea. Also, do we not see the fulfillment of this type in Revelation 20, when Satan will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit? The action taken with the scapegoat in Lev 16 foretells Jesus silencing the accuser of the brethren forever. As God has promised: "I will remember your sins no more", and of the accuser God said: "therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth".

          While Jesus is the Lord's goat of Lev 16:5, I do not see Jacob or the Jews as the fulfillment regarding the scapegoat. Azazel means: "entire removal". Ellen has been clear on the meaning of this type in "The Great Controversy", which has no mention of the Jews or Jacob. I'm not able to understand how you arrive at your conclusions.

          • Plan of redemption encompasses the family of Abraham Hebrews 2:16, Christians are one scion of that family, Children of Israel are the other scion.
            Regrettably Christians are so self absorbed that we do not notice our twin brother, or have animosity towards them. But Abraham is our common ancestor. The promise concerning the seed of the women in Gen 3:15 was fulfilled also in its preparatory stage with the birth of Isaac,and his two sons Esau and Jacob. In the Jewish mind Esau represents Rome Christianity, we Seventh Day Adventists are Shabbat and clean food Christians, therefore we should become like Joseph to our Jewish brethren in the Messiah. Please read Ephesians ch 2 and 3, also Romans ch 9 to 12, also read Martin Luther "Bondage of the Will" to understand the division of the words in the Bible into Law and Gospel. There is need to study history, Church history, culture, Jewish culture and history, and importantly study of our Seventh Day Adventist history and ideas. There are no mistakes in our beginnings, our pioneers received the correct dose of truth for their time, but now more light is needed so that we can have respectful dialogue with other denominations and with our Jewish brethren. Before Jesus returns the reconciliation in Malachi 4:4-6 must be implemented.
            Google Ellen White on the scapegoat, at the end of the article you will find the "Unusual Statement", there is no denial that she wrote it, but our leaders do not know what to do with it.

        • Hi Henry,
          So we meet again. I recognized your name and I saw you're saying the same thing about the scapegoat here like you did on youtube social media. And you're still just as wrong here as you were there. The scapegoat does not represent Jacob at all, but Satan. During the 1000 years Satan will bear the sins of all the redeemed in the wilderness of the broken down earth as it did in type in ancient Israel. Why be vague about what EGW said about the scapegoat? An "unusual statement" sounds to me you're attacking her status as a prophet of the Lord.

          "In the typical service the high priest, having made the atonement for Israel, came forth and blessed the congregation. So Christ, at the close of His work as mediator, will appear, "without sin unto salvation," to bless His waiting people with eternal life. As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin. The scapegoat, bearing the sins of Israel, was sent away "unto a land not inhabited;" so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate, without inhabitant, and he will at last suffer the full penalty of sin in the fires that shall destroy all the wicked." {FLB 213.4}

          There we have it from the servant of the Lord.

          • Greetings Steve, our 50 something exchange was a record for me, and i have learned useful theological points from that discussion, thank you, lets be friends, smile.

  10. Why study the 2300 years and the 490 (70x7) years cut off from it?
    So you can answer the question "Does the 70th week and the prince in the middle point to Jesus in history or the Antichrist in the future?"

    Why do Jews not want us to study these prophecies?
    Why did the RC church appoint the Jesuit Francisco Riberia to show the prophecies did not point to the RC church but something in the future?
    Even Protestants promote futurism, look up Mary McDonald, Edward Irving, John Darby and CI Scofield who put it in the notes of his Scofield Reference Bible

  11. Why prophecy helps convince non Christians the Word of the LORD is valid.

    per Mike Manea
    Unlike most world religions, the religion of the Bible has always been a religion of evidence. God gave evidence to Abraham and to Moses before expecting them to follow Him. God sent plagues on Egypt for both the Israelites' and Egyptians' sake. God delivered Daniel's friends through the fire to get through to Nebuchadnezzar. God followed the ministry of Jesus and the apostles with all kinds of signs and miracles, etc. But at this time in history, when people are more skeptical than ever and have high expectations that evidence be provided for any religious claim, what exactly do we have to offer them? What can we present to outsiders as reason why they should consider Christianity rather than hundreds of other religious perspectives?

    And, the reality is that the only thing we have in Christianity that would qualify as such evidence is Bible prophecy. Without prophecy, there is no reason for people to pay any more attention to us than to other non-Christian religions. Subjective evidence like, a coherent worldview, a transformed life, help in time of trouble, etc., are claims all religions make. Now the Bible has always acknowledged prophecy as an important line of evidence, even a superior line of evidence (ex. Luke 24:13-35). And, Revelation seems to indicate that other lines of evidence, like miracles, will be hijacked by the opposition at the end of time. Moreover, a plain reading of the apocalyptic passages themselves (Daniel and Revelation), indicates that they were in fact intended to be taken as such evidence.

    So before the critics bring up any problems with our interpretation of these passages, they need to first clarify how they address these epistemic (is it true/valid) concerns. What objective evidence can they offer interested outsiders in support of Christianity? Or are they really satisfied with a religion that lacks such evidence? What reason can they give against using prophecy this way when it was clearly intended for this purpose?

    If however the critics do agree that prophecy should be used as evidence, then there are certain criteria that must be present before prophecy can qualify as evidence:
    1) Prophecy cannot make obscure claims about nondescript events (ex. In the future someone will conquer some nation). It should address specific and major world events that are well known to history.
    2) A prediction must cover events far enough into the future for us to know that the prophecy was not made after the fact or through the common human intuition of someone with a deep understanding of political affairs.
    3) If the prophecy is encoded in symbols, there must be some strict rule or key of interpretation evident in the text that would prevent someone from arbitrarily interpreting the symbols in whatever way fits with history. Otherwise, any version of history could be made to line up with the prophecies making them useless as far as evidence goes. A person who doesn't know anything about history should still be able to follow the keys/rules and come to decipher the correct interpretation.
    In essence, any rational outsider looking at Christianity will not take the prophecies seriously if they don't conform to these rules. But, by these criteria, both Preterism and Futurism as systems of interpretation are automatically disqualified.[3]

    Adventists are descendants of William Miller who, as a former deist, approached the bible from a skeptic's point of view. Similarly, we live today in a world where many people will not take Christianity seriously unless some line of evidence can be provided for its legitimacy. In this context, Adventists do have a coherent system of prophetic interpretation that abides by these criteria. And, before we take the objections of critics seriously, they need to first demonstrate that they can provide an alternative system of interpretation that also abides by the necessary criteria. As of yet however, none of the critics that I am aware of have managed to offer a legitimate alternative. In essence, their whole system can be reduced to looking at history and then adjusting the prophecy to fit.


  12. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity,...though I have the gift of prophecy... and have not charity, I am nothing. 1 Cor 13:1

    The Investigative Judgement

    The investigative judgement is a judgement for the people who claimed or professed to know God. Starting from Adam to the last person who said they are a follower of Jesus. The Christians. Peter had a glimpse of that. For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God. 1 Pet 4:17.
    How do I stand at the Great mercy throne? Are my sins washed away? Do I still have cherished sins?

    People get to know about Jesus by three main means.
    1. Reading about his from the bible.
    2. Nature
    3. Someone telling them.
    As a results, the Holy Spirit impresses on their hearts his truths to convince and convert. Those who already knew Jesus must be praying everyday for fresh anointing of the Holy Spirit to spread the message of Jesus and his soon coming. It is not about a Religion but a Relationship.

    Those only who are constantly receiving fresh supplies of grace, will have power proportionate to their daily need and their ability to use that power. Instead of looking forward to some future time when, through a special endowment of spiritual power, they will receive a miraculous fitting up for soul winning, they are yielding themselves daily to God, that He may make them vessels meet for His use. Daily they are improving the opportunities for service that lie within their reach. Daily they are witnessing for the Master wherever they may be, whether in some humble sphere of labor in the home, or in a public field of usefulness. AA 55

    As a result of everyone doing their part, this world will get to know about Jesus. Christianity is not only about the spiritual part but also the physical. Christ method alone will win the world. Christ mingled with the people, he provided for their physical needs, then he told them about his father. Who wants to sit and here about prophecy and the judgement on an empty stomach? Or after the sermon everyone jump in their vehicle and you seem to exist in space?

    We as a church should be having the ten days experience in the upper room now. Them the Holy Spirit will descend as in Pentecost. Many are talking about the "Latter Rain" but living a distance life from what it means. The church will be in limbo without the Holy Spirit to guide and direct. I see this time as a perfect time for the SDA church to rise and shine. We are too quiet too long. We need men and women with visions.

  13. The Investigative Judgment teaching has gone through at least five or six iterations. Millerite, J. N. Andrews, J. White, E. White, Questions on Doctrine, 1980 Fundamentals revision. Authors continue to spin it. Which one are Adventists to believe today?

    I went back to scripture. Some of my conclusions are

    1) Dan 7 does not contain or imply any investigation of the saints. It is the little horn that is judged alone.
    2) It is the judgment that takes away the power of the little horn, so it can not have occurred prior, in 1798.
    2) The "cleansing" is a mistranslation, and again has nothing to do with the saints, unless you believe the saints are the sanctuary.
    3) The NT, especially the Gospel of John, applies Daniel 7 to the life nd ministry of Jesus over and over again. We should look to the first advent of Christ and his mighty work of the cross, resurrection and ascension for its fufilment.

    • Jordan, look at verses 14 and 15 to see the judgment being given to the saints. Can you see it clearly implied there? (Perhaps if aligned with Rev 6:11) The judgment of vs 26 is the post-advent judgment of the dead before the great white throne of Rev 20. The saints will take part in this judgment of the dead(lost).

      Yes, while "cleansing" can be replaced with "justified" or "restored to its rightful place", etc, "cleansing" works within the meaning/context, and must be included as part of the process being described as a result of the actions of the little horn power. If you feel "cleansed" is an improper meaning, to what then would you equate the true meaning in the typical ceremonies that would point to this event as you understand it? I only see the day of atonement representing this as it is described in Daniel 8.

  14. I wish to report back to the original question Maurice Ashton brought out on the matter of relevancy, which I believe is itself a relevant point. What relevance does the 2300-day prophecy hold to the personal needs and interests of the modern secular mind since it deals with an event that happened in the heavenly sanctuary, out of sight, 176 years ago?

    Simply put our relevancy IS Jesus. If the 28 fundamentals are to have any power to appeal to a secular mind to seek a personal relationship with the Savior we need to discover how present their relevance in Him, and this includes the 2300 days. A central element to this question of relevance is whether the prophecy itself holds a verifiable and incontrovertible evidence that appeals to the establishment of faith in Jesus.

    Jackson Chibwezo demonstrated how the end of the 69 weeks led to the anointing of the Messiah at His baptism in AD 27. Historically, His baptism was followed by His death in the middle of the week, in AD 31, bringing the sacrificial system to an end (Dan 9.27; Mt 27.50,51), as predicted. Thus both His baptism and His death having occurred within the 70-week period that was "cut off," Heb. chathak, from the 2300 days, these "seal up the vision and prophecy," the entire vision and prophecy (Dan 9.24), beyond question. The prophecy itself provides the historical landmark necessary for one to anchor his/her faith in Jesus.

    The next step to follow is an appeal to the rational mind to continue to trust the testimony of the word and believe that just as the first part of the prophecy was fulfilled as predicted, so too, the second part happening out of sight in heaven has equally been fulfilled at the end of the 2300 day/year period.

    And Who do we meet there in the heavenly sanctuary in 1844? None other than Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, busy ministering in the presence of the Father as our all-sufficient High Priest (Hebrews 4.14-5.9), crediting to our individual cases the work He finished on behalf of all at the cross. And from there we await for His promised return, (John 14.1-3; Acts 1.9-11).

    So, what is there in the prophecy that is relevant to the secular mind today? I would say, it is a call to faith in Jesus! Faith in Jesus as the Lord's anointed at baptism, as the Lamb of God dying on the cross as our Substitute in the middle of the last prophetic week, as our All-sufficient High-priest interceding in the presence of the Father on our behalf, and lastly, as our soon returning Savior, clad as King of Kings and Lord of Lords coming to bestow the reward of eternal life on those who have loved His appearing (Rev 19.5-15).

    I believe that in restoring Jesus to the center of our prophetic faith, the sanctuary message will be utterly relevant to the secular mind, to the one who might just be thirsty for a draft of the living water Jesus has to offer.

    • John, appreciate how you presented your view on the relevancy of Truth for those who may have been led from seeking it by our wicked adversary who never ceases to prey upon the weak and erring. Though they may not acknowledge the relevancy, they will be unable to escape it at the end. Truth is as relevant to every living soul on this earth as a tidal wave report is to everyone who lives in it's direct path, and all must head to higher ground if they would be safe from it's inevitable destruction. Nothing else will matter when it arrives, and it will arrive.

      We must see our fellow man as the good Samaritan saw the wounded and dying man who lay next to the path he traveled. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to waken conviction, while our work is to sow the good Seed of Truth in every place. We have a clear message for the world found in Revelation 14, and when we understand it as God intends us to, and feel the relevance personally as well, we will give the message in a way that will allow the Holy Spirit to bring a deep conviction upon all who hear it. It does not matter how they react, we can believe they will know even as we may know. The results we leave in the hands of God who is more willing to save than we can understand.

      As with the disciples long ago, our ability must come from the same promise Jesus gave before He ascended to His Father found in Acts 1:8. This promise is sure if we will believe and receive it. Notice in that promise that those possessed by the Holy Spirit will be His witness to "the uttermost part of the earth". This includes every living soul, no matter how indifferent they may wish us to see them. That indifference will vanish in a moment eventually.


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