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Sunday: Dead Faith — 31 Comments

  1. Why does it seem that almost every time there is some mention of doing good works it has to be qualified by some variation of the phrase, "works cannot save us?" Of course faith cannot save us either, although this is not often noted.

    Could it be we are so obsessed with our own salvation (however it is perceived to be obtained) that we can hardly think beyond this sphere? Good works, like obligation does not have to be connected to or driven by fear of loss of salvation or the pursuit of reward.

    Before salvation was an issue good works were intended to address needs, provide beneficial service and foster wholesome development. After salvation is history it will be the same. In between the two points, Eden and Eden restored, God would have us see good works the very same way.

    Which would be better, a world with faith alone, or one with good works alone?

    There is no problem in talking about good works by itself as long as the intent is to bless others. There are many, including rich philanthropists, who do good while denying faith in God; and many others benefit from the good deeds. These are not to be discouraged from doing good because their works are not anchored by faith in God. If the 'do-gooders' are receptive they should be encouraged to exercise faith. If not they should be encouraged to continue doing good anyway.

    When we think good works it is useful to think primarily of love and needs, pleasing God and service to others. Jesus, the real Savior, not faith or works, will take care of our salvation as we draw close to Him, and He will be pleased with the growth that takes place and the needs which are met through good works.

    (33)
    • Hugh,

      I agree. We are neither saved by faith nor by works. We are saved by Jesus Christ. If Jesus had not come back to life from the tomb, we would lost in spite of our faith and our works.

      (6)
  2. Hugh... It is intresting what you said, YES', many people are confused about the relationship between faith and works. This confusion can have a serious consequences since an view of their relationship could lead someone into believing and teaching something that is very unbiblical, saying that we are saved by only cooperating with God by doing good works.

    First of all, justification is the legal declaration by God upon the sinner where God declares the sinner to be righteous. This declaration is based completely and totally on the work of Christ on the Cross. A person is justified by faith (Rom. 5:1); that is, he is made right before God by his faith in Christ. We are not saved by our works, as our works added to the sacrifice of Christ. Our works & our good deeds, have absolutely no affect upon our salvation. Our good works do not get us salvation, nor do they help us keep our salvation. This is because our good works are filthy rags before God (Is. 64:6). Besides, if we could be saved by works, then righteousness would have been based on the law; and Christ would not have needed to die. Gal. 2:21 says, "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." But, Christ did need to die which proves our works cannot save us.

    However, this does not mean that we are not to have good works. The Bible clearly tells us that if we claim to be Christian and we do not have or do good works, then we are not saved (1 John 2:4). Furthermore, the Bible also says that once we are saved, we are not free to be bad (Rom. 6:1-2). On the contrary, we are obligated to be good. In John 14:15 Jesus says, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." Also, 1 John 2:3 says, "And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments."

    Sounds confusing? Don't be - as we are not saved by our works only, because we cannot be. The only way to be saved is to trust in the finished sacrificial work of Christ on the cross. But, once saved, the person is now changed. He is a new creation, and the old things have passed away (2 Cor. 5:17). This means that our old sinful ways are gone (or on their way out as we struggle against them). It also means that we then do good works to honor God. We don't do good works to be saved or stay saved. We do good works because we are saved & as Christ did so should we. I once heard someone say - "that you are not saved by good works", but I say to you "you aren't saved without them also". This means that our good works don't save us on its own; but once we are saved, we naturally obey God's law and do good works which is a sign of our being saved by his grace.

    "So the relationship between faith and works is simple. We are saved by faith & not by our works. But once saved by faith, we do good works to others, because thats how Jesus lived by example."

    (45)
    • In this vein I think this illustration of Morris Venden is timely:

      "Apple trees do not produce apples to become apple trees. They produce apples because they are apple trees."

      (13)
  3. Faith v Works
    Once again we run into trouble because that is the wrong question.
    The question is not: “Are we saved by faith or are we saved by works?

    So let’s get that question out of the way, who, how, why are we saved?
    We are saved from sin by Jesus’ love & sacrifice to be transformed into his image. We are not saved by faith, the just shall LIVE by faith.

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Rom 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (17) For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    Eph 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    So what is the role of faith and works in our lives?

    First – what is faith?
    Best place to find out is the faith chapter, Heb 11:

    Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Faith has substance, the evidence of things not seen, what is the evidence of faith? Action? Just as God created the world out of nothing, he can re-create His likeness in us from nothing. We want to please God, we believe & trust in Him and what is the result?

    What does faith mean to the heroes of faith? Are they Action Heroes?

    By faith Abel offered a sacrifice which showed he was righteous
    By faith Enoch pleased God.
    By faith Noah, believe God, built an ark
    By faith Abraham, left Ur, went to Canaan
    By faith also Sara had a baby
    By faith Abraham, offered up Isaac:
    By faith Moses, left Egypt, confronted Pharaoh, led the Exodus
    And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gideon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

    Yes they are Action Heroes!! They believe that God is the Creator, the Ruler of the Universe, our Redeemer, they believe what God tells them, they trust that God loves them and that He will fulfil all His promises and they go out and do whatever God asked them to be or do.

    (9)
    • Shirley, we are familiar with "Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen," but I don't think that is a definition, nor was it meant to be. (Same is true of Heb 11:3 and Heb 11:6).

      It seems to me that those texts tell us what faith is to those who already have a faith relationship with God.

      But what does it mean in a way that will help us develop a saving faith?

      It's not just believing what God says. The Caananite woman did not believe what Jesus said, or she would have quit begging. (Matt 15:21-24) Yet Jesus said she had "great" faith.

      The woman did not let His spoken words distract her from her hope of healing for her daughter. It seems to me that she had heard enough about Jesus that she had implicit confidence that He would hear her. He would heal her daughter. She trusted Him.

      I like to think of faith as perfect trust - trust that God will supply our needs, trust that He will save us, in spite of our weak and sinful selves. When we trust Him in this way, we have no need to lift ourselves up over other sinners. We have no need to justify self. We have no need to resort to any of the multitudinous ways of trying to save ourselves, including fanatical adherence to the letter of the Law.

      I like to think that this perfect trust will also lead to the kind of obedience that Jesus had. We trust Him, and so we know that He never requires anything of us that is not for our own good. So we have no need to try to do it "my way." Since trust is a relationship word, we will trust Him to guide us in situations that appear to present a moral dilemma, and we will not "pass by on the other side" because helping another sinner would constitute technical "breaking of the Sabbath," because it involves work.

      What do you think?

      (3)
      • Hi Inge,

        Yes, I agree that is why I said:
        Yes they are Action Heroes!! They believe that God is the Creator, the Ruler of the Universe, our Redeemer, they believe what God tells them, they trust that God loves them and that He will fulfil all His promises and they go out and do whatever God asked them to be or do.

        (0)
    • Shirley,
      Very good comment! Here is some support:

      James 2:24 clearly states we are justified by works, as Paul states elsewhere that we are justified by faith (Romans 3:28). Together they are saying the Savior accomplishes our salvation through faith and works, justification and sanctification. There is an equal danger of resisting sanctification because of the effort of cooperation involved, as there is a danger of ignoring justification to get some credit.

      Some good counsel from EGW:

      “In my dream you were presenting the subject of faith and the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith. You repeated several times that works amounted to nothing, that there were no conditions. The matter was presented in that light that I knew minds would be confused and would not receive the correct impression in reference to faith and works, and I decided to write to you. You state this matter too strongly. There are conditions to our receiving justification and sanctification, and the righteousness of Christ. I know your meaning, but you leave a wrong impression upon many minds. While good works will not save even one soul, yet it is impossible for even one soul to be saved without good works.” (Faith and Works p. 111)

      Whatever our view of our own salvation there is something else to note. While there is wrestling with the idea of faith versus works there are many suffering who do not care what the motive of our actions are, if we would only help.

      There is probably some good works which do not get done because they cannot save us, and our faith we think have sealed our salvation. Could it be a lack of good works is a more pressing problem than a lack of belief (Matthew 25:41-43)? Could we tell by works that one-third of the world is Christian? Would it not be a good thing to pray for bowels of mercy and a desire to just live right?

      (2)
      • Hi Hugh,

        As I said we are not saved by faith or by works in and of themselves.

        We are saved and transformed by Jesus when we believe, trust and submit ourselves to His love and transforming power.

        I think James is trying to point out that people who say they have faith but don't allow Jesus to transform their characters don't really believe or trust Jesus with their lives.

        (2)
  4. My small understanding is this--

    We are saved by grace alone: God's initiative
    Through faith alone: our response (since grace does not force)

    Greg Boyd says faith is the "willingness to act in the face of uncertainty". Based on that definition so far I think faith and works naturally accompany each other. Faith produces works in another sense.

    I prefer to look at this from another front though--that of a response that comes from a heart transformed by Christ. If we are converted we'll have the mind and priorities of Christ--who was always moved with compassion when he saw human need. These things will just become our nature to do.

    (6)
  5. Bro. Dalhousie states that "faith does not save either." The question is, what faith? The faith that Paul and James speak about are not simple assent to the presence and power of God. It is a belief that is based in a knowledge of his character that leads to a submissive heart. It is not a dead, theoretical faith, it is by its very nature, transformative. It is like yeast when accepted into your heart automatically does something. Perhaps we as Adventist Christians have misunderstood the nature of the faith God wants us to have. Perhaps what James is doing, is challenging the Christians to whom he wrote, as to whether or not they had the faith that was necessary for salvation as their actions were indicating otherwise.
    It might be helpful to note that "good works' are and have always been a danger to God's people. Before the fall they were not a problem because man did not have a fallen nature that can be so easily seduced by the inner satisfaction and pride that comes from doing good

    (2)
  6. Good works. Hence whenever good works are discussed it demands a caveat made necessary by the fall. A reminder that as pleasant and satisfying as it is to do good works, we cannot be saved by them. For a carnal nature it is at times easier to give and do, give and do to a great extent and not give what God wants more than all, a heart that is broken. Peter wanted to do so much in defense of Christ, but he knew what doing really meant when his heart was broken at the foot of the cross.

    (0)
  7. Good works come about because of love - love of God and love of our neighbour.
    When we truly love God we keep His commandments. We recognise our neighbour as children whom Christ died for and therefore they are our relatives. Then, we are willing to help them from the heart, expecting nothing in return. There is no love of God without works and faith.

    (1)
  8. God-given love for others will be manifested in a faith which is exercised by loving and meeting the needs of others when and where we are able--one person at a time, just like Jesus did. By these actions, our faith is strengthened and our experience in the things of God will grow deeper.

    Let us be reminded of the following statement found in Steps to Christ, pages 80, 81:

    "The only way to grow in grace is to be disinterestedly doing the very work which Christ has enjoined upon us--to engage, to the extent of our ability, in helping and blessing those who need the help we can give them. Strength comes by exercise; activity is the very condition of life. Those who endeavor to maintain Christian life by passively accepting the blessing that come through the means of grace, and doing nothing for Christ, are simply trying to live by eating without working.

    And in the spiritual as in the natural world, this always results in degeneration and decay. A man who would refuse to exercise his limbs would soon lose all power to use them. Thus the Christian who will not exercise his God-given powers not only fails to grow up into Christ, but he loses the strength that he already had."

    (1)
  9. For me, focus is everything. If my focus is Jesus, the rest falls into place. I don't have to worry about all the different aspects and labels--I don't have to understand all the issues and complexities. I can look at His love and His leading and be morphed into something better by that simple act. Then, when the opportunity presents itself I will do, to the best of my ability, what He would do.
    I don't have to analyze my motive nor ponder my abilities. I can reach out and know that He can accomplish through me what I cannot do on my own. If I don't get in the way miracles can happen.
    What a wonderful thought, that by "resting in Him" I can move mountains, whatever those mountains consist of.

    (5)
  10. Pastor Lou Venden illustrated this as follows. On one occasion he was driving over the speed limit and was stopped by the police. When the policeman found out that he was a pastor who was late for an appointment, he decided to let him go. Overwhelmed with gratitude, Venden drove the rest of his trip under the speed limit.

    (1)
  11. The lesson is a really practical one. It is a waste of time to try to share the gospel with someone who is hungry or suffering other physical discomfort. This is simply because that persons situation will be so overbearing he will not hear a thing you said. Jesus always attended to the temporal needs as well as spiritual e.g. the feeding of the five thousand.

    Of course our faith will be strengthened when we do works of love because God will reward our sacrifice. One day an old lady came to my office saying that she was hungry. The only money I had was my taxi fare and I had to take two different taxis. I gave her my taxi fare out of faith and asked God to provide for me. That day I went to the sidewalk hoping to get a ride from someone. Sure enough someone gave me a lift and that happened for the rest of the week.

    After that my faith was stronger because I knew that God would take care of me. I also got the opportunity to tell the lady that Jesus impressed me to give it to her and that I was a Seventh-day Adventist so I got a chance to witness. Another lady told me that it was someone's acts kindness that led her to church and believe it or not the person never brought religion to her. His care was enough. Let our works testify of our faith.

    (8)
  12. As I hear discussion of faith and works, sometimes it seems that different people come from different assumptions and sometimes that they are answering different questions or relating to different side aspects. Are we talking about faith and works in relation to the question of merit? Or are we talking about them in relation to their immediate effects on the one who believes or acts, or on someone else observing them? Or are we thinking of the place of faith and works in the investigative judgment?

    Each one of these questions can be answered from the Bible, but from different verses. Perhaps that's part of why we have our favorite verses and seem to disagree at times. Hugh and Worrel, which aspects are you addressing? (I have my impressions, but your answers would be better.) And which aspects are Paul, James, John, and Jesus addressing in which verses? (I suspect this could be the start of a not-so-small book.)

    (0)
    • John,
      Thanks for your questions. Please accept abbreviated responses in the order you listed:

      Are we talking about faith and works in relation to the question of merit? Both our faith and our works do not contribute to our salvation. The faith and works of Christ (His righteousness) are together the indispensable quality (Romans 3:22; Philippians 2:13).

      Or are we talking about them in relation to their immediate effects on the one who believes or acts…? Faith produces works and works encourage faith in the one who believes or acts (James 2:18; 3:13).

      Or on someone else observing them? Others may accept our faith as we share and the Holy Spirit works. However they cannot truly measure our faith, so it is our works that have a greater direct impact on their wellbeing (James 2:15, 16). Even if another is not converted, but suffering is relieved at least some good is done, and God cares a lot about acts of mercy (Matthew 25:31-46).

      Or are we thinking of the place of faith and works in the investigative judgment? Scripture is clear we are judged by works (Romans 2:5, 6; Revelation 20:12, 13)

      (1)
      • I think it is altogether too easy to mix up faith and works when you tie it to the IJ. Please keep them separate and do not mix in this discussion.
        Faith and works are NOT a 50/50 deal that makes up a total 100%. We are saved 100% by grace through faith. Works do not cause us to be saved any more than wet streets cause it to rain. But if it is raining outside the streets are most certainly going to get wet. By the same token faith without works is a thunder storm that is all flash and boom without any rain. Genuine faith will produce good works in your life because an abiding trust and relationship with God cannot help but inspire you to follow him in word and deed. The Holy spirit is the enabling power. We are only seeing a light rain now. Wait till the latter rain of the Holy Spirit comes. It's going to be a downpour.

        (1)
    • This last Sabbath the streaming Sabbath school lesson from the Loma Linda University Church was taught by Dr. John Jones of La Sierra University whom I have a lot of respect for. During the last few minutes he previewed this week's lesson.

      He thinks there is real disagreement between Paul and James but the way he views that difference is something I hadn't thought of before. To him it is a matter of view. Paul was viewing works from the side of pre-conversion while James was viewing it from a post-conversion side. To him James was dealing with works as an outgrowth of salvation rather than the means of salvation.

      Now, I personally disagree with that but if one looks at the literary side of scripture I can certainly see how a person could easily arrive at such a conclusion and I don't think his understanding is without any merit.

      What I have done instead is to look at the people writing scripture and try to understand the background and circumstances of their writing and to project that into what they said. I ask myself some simple questions like what did Paul mean when he said, "Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision" (Gal. 2:11-12 NKJV) I don't think James actually sent those people for that would have been hypocritical and that is one thing I don't see James ever doing but I do think they came from the theological circle that James was a leader of. It was part of the same Jerusalem church that told Paul toward the end of his ministry, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law" (Acts 21:20 NKJV).

      The root of the problem was stated at the beginning of the Jerusalem council, "And certain men came down from Judea (the Jerusalem church) and taught the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved'" (Acts 15:1 NKJV). It wasn't circumcision itself that was the problem for Paul had Timothy circumcised nor was it over oaths and rituals of the sanctuary for he took on a vow that is thought to be a type of nazarite vow and had his head shaved at Cenchrea (Acts 18:18). Rather it was the idea that if you didn't do certain ritual acts you couldn't be saved. It was a salvation based on works rather than on belief in the free gift of God. To me that was the basic theological understanding James had, he was a Jew thinking like a Jew in a church that was heavily Jewish. He was not like Paul whose education was deeply theological and extensive to the point that he could successfully argue with the Greek philosophers of Athens. Furthermore Paul was privileged with theological insight into the process of salvation on the Damascus road that James apparently didn't have which totally upended all he understood and made him sick for about three days and when he went to Arabia that understanding only increased.

      I have a lot of respect for James but not as a theologian but rather as a leader and in that capacity I think he did a remarkable job.

      (0)
  13. Ask the thief on the cross with the savior, one said save yourself and us, the other said remember me. It was Gods grace through faith not works that will allow him to be with Jesus in paradise am I getting the right understandings about this?

    (0)
  14. Paul is reminding Peter and the others, that even though they had been Jews, they had to come to Christ through faith, not works. It was not the keeping of the law that saved Abraham. His faith was counted unto him as righteousness. By the law, no one would be saved, because all have sinned and deserve death.

    (1)
    • Suppose I get cited for speeding and I tell the judge: "But I drove within the speed limit after my infraction." Can my behavior following the incident save me from paying the fine?

      (0)
    • I believe that Abraham was declared righteous because He did God's will not his own will. He believe, trusted, surrendered to and obeyed God. The following two texts show us what God said about Abraham.
      Because Abraham had surrendered his will to God he obeyed God and he was 'right with God'

      Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his sons and his house after him, and they shall keep the way of Jehovah, to do justice and judgment, that Jehovah may bring upon Abraham that which He has spoken of him.
      Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My Laws.

      (1)
  15. Ellen White wrote several times that one cannot say “I am saved”:

    No man can say I am saved until he has endured test and trial, until he has shown that he can overcome temptation (The Kress Collection, Pg.120).

    This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that He has saved them…such teaching is a gross deception (Bible Echo, vol. 12, No. 6, 1897).

    Those who accept the Savior, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or feel that they are saved. This is misleading…Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves. They lose sight of their own weakness and their constant need of divine strength (Christ’s Object Lessons p. 155).

    Many, if not most Christian teachers use the term “seal of God” to mean “certified for salvation” or having received salvation. The Bible teaching on this is very clear--we are sealed by the Holy Spirit as a gift of grace through Jesus Christ when we accept Him as our Lord and Savior (Ephesians 4:30 , 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22 ).

    Ellen White wrote and taught differently:

    Not one of us will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them. It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement (Testimonies vol. 5, p. 214).

    All who receive the seal must be without spot before God--candidates for heaven (Testimonies vol. 5, p. 216).

    Gary

    (0)
    • Gary, there are many in the church that will agree with you completely but I cannot do that. I will agree with the intent that Ellen White had in battling the once saved always saved doctrine that James to a large degree was also fighting against. One cannot say that because I am justified today that I can now do whatever I want and still be saved. There is a big difference between having a real assurance in Christ's promises and having a spurious self confident presumption. We need to understand that our status rests on our relationship to God and that is something that we can change at any time.

      As it was with King Saul so it is with us. We can choose to be lost at any time. Just because we have a saving relationship with Christ today doesn't mean we will automatically have it tomorrow in opposition to the direction we have chosen to go in. It is in this kind of context that Ellen White makes those statements.

      What you need to do is to also read what she had to say about assurance. A good place to start is Steps to Christ, chapter 6, "Faith and Acceptance."

      Listen to what she wrote to one person:

      I see by your letter that you are in a state of unbelief, questioning whether there is hope in your case. As Christ's ambassador I would say to you: Hope thou in God." He so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Now cannot you take courage from this gracious promise? Satan may tell you many times that you are a sinner; but you can answer: True, I am a sinner; but Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners."'
      Said Jesus: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." And again: I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Will you not believe these precious words? Will you not receive them into your heart? Seek ye the Lord while He may be found, call ye upon Him while He is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and He will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon." Is not this promise broad and deep and full? Can you ask more? Will you not allow the Lord right here to erect a standard for you against the enemy? Satan is ready to steal away the blessed assurances of God. He desires to take every glimmer of hope and every ray of light from the soul; but you must not permit him to do this. Exercise faith; fight the good fight of faith; wrestle with these doubts; become acquainted with the promises. (5 Testimonies 629.1)

      As for the last two quotes do you not understand that when you accept Christ that His blood covers you and that you are justified and therefore considered spotless in the eyes of God?

      Faith is the condition upon which God has seen fit to promise pardon to sinners; not that there is any virtue in faith whereby salvation is merited, but because faith can lay hold of the merits of Christ, the remedy provided for sin. Faith can present Christ's perfect obedience instead of the sinner's transgression and defection. When the sinner believes that Christ is his personal Saviour, then according to His unfailing promises, God pardons his sin and justifies him freely. The repentant soul realizes that his justification comes because Christ, as his substitute and surety, has died for him, is his atonement and righteousness.
      "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son. This is how faith is accounted righteousness (Review and Herald Nov. 4, 1890)

      (2)
    • Oh my, here we go with this spotless perfection stuff. I dislike the way EGW is used to try and push sinless perfection as a qualifier for heaven. Lay aside EGW for a second and look at Hebrews 10:14 "He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified." Christ considers us perfect while he is perfecting us. Yes we are as saved as we will ever be when we are justified at conversion. Justification covers us while we are being sanctified. We are indeed saved when we give ourselves to Christ as long as we stay in a committed relationship with Him that changes our hearts and impulses. With the new heart comes a course correction. Suddenly the things of this earth grow strangely dim, and obedience becomes a delight, not a duty, or a burden. Perfection is nothing more than character completeness or maturity. All throughtout EGW's writing this theme shines through. In saying we should never say "I am saved" she is talking about folks that boast about being saved and then look down at everyone else. Read the entire chapter in Christ Object Lessons where she talks about not saying "I am saved>" It has been a travesty the way we have shrank from expressing assuarance of salavtion by refraining from "I am saved" EGW never intended her words to be mis used as so many have.

      (0)
  16. Faith through works means being obidient to His Word and acting on it beyond any doubt. Our works cannot save because they are dead as we are, without Faith.

    (1)
  17. Christ said something similar to what James said.
    "But He answered them, My mother and My brothers are those who listen to the Word of God and do it". Luke 8:21. Just listening doesn't cut it. Just having faith does not cut it. Putting your money where your mouth is cuts it.
    In putting salvation in the equation my favorite is the Desire of Ages page 175 paragraph 4 and 5.
    Like Nicodemus, we must be willing to enter into life in the same way as the chief of sinners. Than Christ, “there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12. Through faith we receive the grace of God; but faith is not our Saviour. It earns nothing. It is the hand by which we lay hold upon Christ, and appropriate His merits, the remedy for sin. And we cannot even repent without the aid of the Spirit of God. The Scripture says of Christ, “Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” Acts 5:31. Repentance comes from Christ as truly as does pardon.
    How, then, are we to be saved? “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,” so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, “I delight to do Thy will, O my God.” Psalm 40:8.
    Faith without works is indeed dead. The Christian without trials loses muscle and eventually dies. The heart with out exercise loses strength and becomes like the fig tree with leaves only: cursed.

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