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Tuesday: The Degeneration of a Nation — 28 Comments

  1. Our human nature is sinful and thus molds our character so we have the propensity to sin and it is normal. I already stated the 7 reasons that made the Israelite agitated by Jeremiah for it was by that time propensity to sin was the norm of the day and they did not see any sin in their religious, social, economic and cultural dealings and the law of the land necessitated these propensities to sin so it was alien to them the accusations of Jeremiah, for they still worship Yahweh though corrupted by mix of Baal worship and idols and its rituals. Today as I have already stated earlier on few weeks before we have idols in our heart as stated by Ezekiel. So we are not far from the sins of the Israelite. This demands our full attention, idols in the form of our career, ego, ambition, car, house, accumulation of wealth while around us are filled with the poor, orphans, widows and needy and last but most importantly taking top priority than Yahweh's call for us as His messengers. What are the idols that impinges on your decision to the Gospel Commission? How are you going to tackle and do with it? When are you going to commit to the Gospel Commission? Is it difficult because of your comforts and privilege would be removed? These are few decisions we have to handle and decide upon if not then they are the very principles of idolatry that blinded the Israelite to their destruction as a nation and as an individual losing both their identity and their purpose, so they were better off being exiled and do not deserve to stay in Canaan just like us not deserving to be Citizens of Heaven.

    (41)
  2. I appreciate the comments given here, and yet it interests me that the Lesson introduces an 'uncertainty factor' where it says, "Whether “this place” was the temple itself or Jerusalem, the text doesn’t say."

    To me it seems clear that the term, "this place", refers to the City as a whole. Jerusalem [including the Temple,] had been "estranged" [or profaned] -- it's sanctity was not recognized. I say this because God directed the prophet to speak the words in a specific place:

    "And go forth unto the Valley of the son of Hinnom, which is by the east gate, and proclaim there the words that I shall tell thee". (Jer 19:2)

    The Valley of Hinnom was not directly associated with the Temple. It contained Tophet, where children were formerly sacrificed to Moloch. And it had been King Hezekiah that made Tophet (and effectively the whole Valley) into a Rubbish Dump/ Refuse Tip, in an effort to make sure that children were no longer offered on the site. (Jer 7:31, 2Kings 23:10.)

    It was into this Valley that Jeremiah took [and broke] the "earthen bottle", and spoke the words we find in chapter 19. And so in my view, "this place" which the people had estranged, and burnt incense in [on the streets and roofs, Jer 11:13,32:29], and filled with the blood of innocents, was the City.

    (22)
    • Whether it was a temple or not, these practices were condemned by the Lord. Oh how people have strayed from the Lord.

      (8)
      • Yes Kennetta, these practices were, are, and have always been, condemned of the Lord.

        But deceptions often draws near to the truth. Of course Abraham was called to offer his son... he did not need to go through with the final, physical, act, but some have been tempted to think, "Abraham's hand was stayed... if I am called to do the same thing... will He stay my hand?" When a person is led to believe that their god will help them [and perhaps their whole country] if they give up something so precious to them as their first-born, then of course that person is horrendously deceived.

        Some people believe too, that babies are born "saved" by default, and that by "offering" them before they reach the age of accountability, the child is thereby guaranteed a place in heaven. But this too, is based on a horrendous deception. If a parent believes that they can effectively sacrifice their own soul for the sake of their baby's eternal bliss, then that parent is caught in a horrendously tragic snare.

        (9)
      • There may be some other modern parallels to the offering of babies as sacrifices. It seems to me that the Israelites did not value the life of babies and young children. Is it possible that in our modern culture there is a similar disregard for the life of babies and children? I can think of a number of horrendous sins resulting from such a disregard. But Jesus said, "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matthew 18:6)

        (1)
  3. How could Judah move from faithful commandment keeping (Exodus 19:5-6) to offering human sacrifices to lifeless gods (Jeremiah 19:5)? Spiritual degeneration may often be traced to an unholy union and forbidden communion between the professed peculiar people (1 Peter 2:9) and those whose activities are distinctly evil (2 Corinthians 6:14-18). Judah is a prime exhibit of this.

    Often the charge of being overly conservative, old fashioned or backward may be brought against those who still take the Bible as it reads and are not so quick to embrace the latest fad and hesitate to join the sport of the ungodly. Still there is safety in giving thoughtful consideration to the effect of the world’s activities rather than rushing to join in.

    The bridge between the holy and the downright horrific may be laid by small steps of compromise barely perceptible to the undiscerning babe in Christ (1 Corinthians 3:1-3). Entertainment especially may provide a path to the profane, appearing innocent at first only to trap its subject (1 Peter 5:8).

    The faithful take time to be holy, patiently presenting before the Lord everything they might wish to get involved with. They are not afraid to miss out on some fun or excitement while they wait on the Lord for direction.

    The apostle exhorts believers to spend time with the Savior and in the Word so they may grow and not remain as infants (Hebrews 5:11-14). As the saints grow they become wiser in their choices.

    (22)
    • Much of the thought on this subject within our church saddens me. Maurice Ashton's comment states one reason very well. Attempts to "purify" the church often become a violation of Christ's command in Matthew 7 (judging). They also often confuse principle with preference (my preferences are principles and don't forget it). When looking at text like Jeremiah, it is easy to forget that there is a ditch on the other side of the road, too. After the exile and return from captivity, the "remnant" were adamant that they never wanted to go down that path again, so they hedged God's commandments with a wall--a wall of well intended (and certainly not bad) human rules designed to keep people far enough away from sin that they would never offend God again. The result? The Jewish nation that Christ came to that were so caught up in their man-made rules about how to keep God's rules that they didn't recognize God when He "dwelt among them" and killed Him! The longer I live and the more I see of our church, the more convinced I am that in the end, the ones to whom Christ will say, "I never knew you" are not the "lax" and "worldly" ones, but rather the self imposed judges who are so busy making sure no one offends Him that they didn't have time to "know" Him. That in my opinion is by far the worst "sin" harming our church today.

      (4)
      • 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

        That would be just fine if it were truly about knowing Him. But much of that theology today is about claiming to know Him while disregarding the rules of the Bible, which is not genuinely 'knowing' Him at all. It's called the New Theology.

        (1)
    • It all depends on motivation, it seems to me.

      If we are so concerned about keeping ourselves pure that we will not associate with the world enough so that we can make friends and share the gospel with them, we are self-focused, and self-focus is the polar opposite of the character of Christ.

      Christ mingled with people as one who desired their good. People were drawn to Him because people could sense that He cared. He wants to work through us to draw others to Himself, and we cannot do that by focusing on our own salvation. We are to focus on Christ and His mission and do what He told us to do - to share the Good News with all the world. And for that we have to mingle and make friends.

      Of course, if we join the world in seeking our own pleasure, that is also self-focus and the polar opposite of the character of Christ. We can be self-focused as "conservative" Christians, or we can be self-focused as world-loving pleasure seekers. In each case, self-focus does not result in salvation.

      (2)
  4. We pray that the spirit of God may bring genuine heart felt repentance and change in our ways cause the sam way God delt with the israelites is the same today

    (11)
    • I must agree with Odira Geoffrey I have noticed that our Churches are looking like the "other" Churches in our Cities. If you look and pay attention to the way we have added make up, jewelry, and unnecessary clothing to our sanctuary. I do not think its right that I should worry if my husband is going to "sin" by looking at a 1/2 dress women in our Church. It saddens my heart that the devil has crept into our church and nothing is being done about it. No I am not a legalistic person by no means, I think we need to get some respect back into our Churches, respect for God!!!

      (12)
      • The problem is that if these "1/2 dressed" women were not in church, where would they be, and where would they hear and experience the Gospel. Please understand that not everyone arrives at church as full grown mature Christians. We need to give people room to grow and develop and what better place to do that but in a church that is full of loving understanding Christians.

        It is a long time since I was a teenager making statements with my dress and hair-style, but I do remember the tolerance and love shared with me by older Christians. Praise the Lord that some of them never condemned me and listened to my weird teenage ideas. A church is a place to grow!

        (24)
        • The sad thing is that a lot of the compromise and degeneration of values and standards we're seeing in the church are not limited to babes in Christ or to the youth who are finding their way. We observe a lot of this behavior in "seasoned" members of the church.
          This compromise is also multi-generational: parents who have lost their way are raising children who grow up in this church and no longer understand, not only our lifestyle standards, but more importantly our distinctive doctrinal beliefs. The end result is a church that no longer bears the special Message that was given to our Movement through our pioneers. Clearly, we have sown to the wind and are now reaping the whirlwind!

          (10)
        • This kind of problems are noticed from the first church. we can read it from 1 Corinthians 11. But Paul also gave conclusion in 1 Corinthians 11:16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice--nor do the churches of God.

          (1)
  5. This is amazing, just amazing to Me. We see these crazy things happening everyday. Children are sacrificed because of men's crazy beliefs. But God shows How much He hates these practices. Funny enough, there are those who claim, to do it in the name of the Lord.. We live in a sin sick world, and people are moving further and further away from the truth. Let's bet back to our first love, Jesus. Let's immerse ourselves in His word, and teach others so they can be removed from darkness.

    (12)
  6. How the people's concept of the character of Jehovah had changed:
    did they think that He would be happy that they burned their children?
    did they think He was prepared to share them with Baal?

    I believe if our concept of the character of Jehovah is skewed then so will our worship, heart and behavior be skewed.

    (10)
    • I very much agree, Shirley, If our concept of the character of Jehovah is skewed then so will our worship, heart and behaviour be skewed. This reminds me of Sister White's comment --

      "The whole spiritual life is molded by our conceptions of God, and if we cherish erroneous views of His character, our souls will sustain injury." (That I may know Him p.263).

      The WHOLE spiritual life is molded by the way we view God's character...

      (0)
  7. When I was a student at high school, I read George Orwell's book, "Animal Farm". For those of you who have not read the story, the animals rebelled against their human oppressors and took over the farm with lofty ideals of equality. With each passing year, the pigs, who had strong administrative skills, gradually changed the rules, all in the name of serving the animals better. They started out with the motto, "Four legs good; two legs bad, and all animals are equal." In the final scenes of the book, the now oppressed animals looked in at the pigs having a party and had great difficulty in telling whether the pigs were standing on two legs or four legs. The loft ideals of equality of all animals had been forgotten in the name of expediency.

    The Kingdom of Judah has in many ways a similar story. Their "emancipation" had been outlined by God and provided a framework for a supportive community, where all members were valued. Unfortunately, expediency prevailed and the exploitation of the needy occurred. Jeremiah, might be referred to as "Old Grizzle Guts" (excuse the Australianism), but he was not alone in condemning, the exploitation of the needy, the widows and the fatherless. Read most of the minor prophets and you will find similar messages. They became like the nations around them, adopting their ideas and practices.

    The issue at the heart of Jeremiah's message is that when you take your eyes of the "true God", you lose your sense of values about one another. Like the animals in "Animal Farm" the kingdom of Judah had become convinced that you needed to behave in this way in order to be successful.

    If we are to learn anything from Jeremiah's message we should understand that believing in the "true God", comes with responsibility to one another. Salvation is about sharing with others; it is not about lining up at the trough for the "goodies from heaven".

    (13)
  8. The desire to ecumenise can start out by thinking that if we do, then we can somehow influence others into eventually joining US. But most of the time it ends is us joining THEM. That is what the Spirit of Prophecy says.

    Instead of the World coming over to the Church, the Church comes over to the World. That's how Sunday worship started, wasn't it? ...a desire to win the Pagans to Christianity. But it ends with God having to call His own People out of Babylon.

    (9)
    • I find that I share many beliefs in common with other Christians. And talking and listening to other Christians can be a valuable growing experience for me. That is not compromise. It is only by becoming friends with others that we can influence them. Isolation is not a viable option. Jesus did not isolate himself in heaven to save us. He came to earth. Likewise, if we are going to share the Gospel with others we need to place ourselves where we can interact with them. Standing a long way off and throwing stones does not win people to Jesus.

      How many Roman Catholic friends do we have? Have we ever heard their personal stories of their Christian experience? I have, and have been surprised by what I hear. And when they hear my story, they in turn are surprised that we have so much in common. That is not compromise.

      We need to understand the difference between building bridges and compromise.

      (5)
        • I understand Claudia. I was just balancing the picture because I have seen too many Adventist argue for isolationism, when we need to be as pervasive as salt! 🙂

          (2)
  9. The underlying sin is coveting. We depart from the Lord in unbelief when we begin to covet. This leads to the abominations that follow closely on the heals of all we might covet in this world. The prayer of Ps 119:36 is: "Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness". Since God's testimonies are established by Love, coveting is established through self-exaltation.

    When Israel turned away from the LORD who brought them out of Egypt to coveting the ways of the nations around them, every abomination was found among them.

    How many children today are sacrificed to the fire among professed followers of Christ through covetousness?

    (2)
  10. being 1/2 dressed in the church for the sake that you want to hear the gospel truth which may lead to being fully dressed is one thing and being 1/2 dressed in church with a rebellious heart is another thing as well. all in all, God is a Miracle worker and also we cannot read one's heart.

    (1)
    • We should never forget what churches are for. They should be places where rebellious hearts are changed. Each person in church is a potential candidate for salvation irrespective of their dress and the condition of their heart. All too often in our haste to correct their dress, we interfere with the work of the Holy Spirit.

      When I plant seeds in the garden, I have to be patient while the seed germinates under the ground where I cannot see it. It takes time for the seed to sprout and grow and appear above the ground. Impatient prodding and scratching at the ground in the meantime will often kill the sprouting seeds. We can only provide water and nourishment and be patient.

      Likewise with our folk in church that we feel need to change. We need to nourish them and allow them time to grow. There is a time to say that change is needed but it should be done in patience and kindness.

      I can give example after example of your people who came to church with rebellious hearts, but who with the patience and encouragement of their fellow church folk and the work of the Holy spirit have grown and gone on to become ministers and teachers.

      (2)
      • Maurice, we have direct counsel in regards to preparing a candidate for baptism. Read the chapter in 6T "Baptism", and notice the instructions regarding dress.

        Doesn't Jesus say "teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"? We live in a day where it matters more than in times past, and without this careful instruction, many will be left in a false state of security while offending a Holy God. However, these instructions are for those wanting to be baptized, not those who are careless and indifferent. The soul that hungers and thirsts for righteousness will not be offended or discouraged by faithful teaching of Truth.

        (0)
        • I don't have a problem with that Bob, and I know that there are those who thumb their noses at God about standards. But a church is a place where people come to be changed to be like him. That takes time. I have seen people grow in nurturing churches and I have seen people's spiritual experience die in critical churches. Churches should be places of healing, not a club for those who are healthy.

          Anybody can walk past a garden and say that there is something wrong with the garden, but only a gardener can tend the garden and nurture the flowers into full bloom.

          Faithfully teaching the truth must be done in a soul nurturing way.

          (1)
          • That all goes without saying Maurice. Still, we cannot let the past use of wrong methods prevent the advancement of those which are correct. When a soul is eager to learn, the teaching is easy. When a soul is resistant, perhaps there is nothing further to teach.

            Conviction is the work of the Holy Spirit, while teaching is the work of God's appointed servants (Matt 28:20). We need to realize the difference as Jesus demonstrated it. The wrong methods are the way of those who are themselves disconnected from Christ and void of His Spirit. The apostate church is where coercion, threats and punishments were enacted against all "heretics". No such manners were ever demonstrated in the life of Jesus but were common among those who opposed Him.

            Those who chose to follow Jesus were carefully and thoroughly taught by Him. A true shepherd leads the sheep, and doesn't drive them.

            Notice how in Isa 4 that some will only want His name, while refusing to eat His bread and wear His apparel.(Isa 4:1) Such will be unteachable in that condition. If the first lesson of entire surrender is not learned and accepted, nothing else can follow with success.

            (0)

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