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The Non-Immortality of the Soul — 14 Comments

  1. Thanks Pastor William for this simple great truth that has been misunderstood. Please how can I share to my other social media account?

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  2. This is great material. The word of God is amazing when we study and read his words we can see his love for us through scripture

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  3. In the face of another extended family member being played to rest, this week - so many relatives and friends, including a younger sibling, over the past three years - I am comforted by John 11: 25.
    Praise God, who holds the keys to life! How sweet is The Blessed Hope!

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  4. Hello William,

    You have rightly illustrated from context that there are many places in the Bible that show the soul is totally dependent on God for the gift of immortality. However, there are two citations on which I would appreciate your comment: 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 and Philippians 1:21-24.

    Richard Ferguson

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    • Hi, Richard. I realise that you have asked William to comment on these two passages, and I look forward to hearing what he might have to say. Nevertheless, this being a public forum, perhaps I might be permitted to write a few words.

      Let's start with what we know from Scripture. Even the "first death" is real. When the spirit leaves the body and returns to God, and the body begins the process of decay, the soul (the actual unique individual) lapses into unconsciousness. His or her thoughts cease. The person knows nothing and no longer has any part in what is happening in the world, but is silently sleeping in the grave.

      Nevertheless, according to Jesus and Paul, the soul of the believer has not perished. When Jesus returns to Earth in person, He will call His sleeping saints to awaken from their sleep of death, and they will come forth glorified and immortal.

      Now, the fact that each risen saint is still the same person as before -- the same soul -- implies a continuity of consciousness. That is, the person's thought processes will pick up right where they left off. Consequently, the period of sleep, however long it may have continued, will seem like a mere moment in the subjective experience of the one risen from the dead.

      This is the factual background, according to Scripture, and I think we may safely assume that the inspired writer Paul fully understood it. So we are going to want to interpret his words accordingly.

      2 Corinthians 5:6-8

      "So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord."

      This same writer, Paul, also wrote I Corinthians 15:35-49, where we are given to understand that the sleeping saints will be resurrected with a new and far better body. In I Corinthians 5:4, just two verses before the passage under examination, Paul says that, although "we who are in this tent groan, being burdened," we don't want "to be unclothed , but further clothed , that mortality may be swallowed up by life." Notice that he makes our resurrection dependent on our receiving a new body.

      So, in the passage under examination, Paul is talking about leaving this body (i.e. dying) and immediately (in our own perception) being with the Lord, immortal and inhabiting an imperishable body.

      Philippians 1:21-24

      "For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labour; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you."

      Here, Paul is clearly stating that his continuing on in this life would be good for his usefulness in this world, but that he personally would be better off dying. Well, why not? The life of Jesus has become Paul's life, and he is certain of the resurrection which, were he to die, would immediately bring him into the personal presence of Jesus, in Paul's personal experience. It would bring an end to his struggles and persecutions.

      No wonder death is a small matter to the Christian!

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    • Thank you for your comment Richard. I agree with R.G.'s comments and her are my thoughts as well.

      2 Corinthians 5:6-8 is not a dissertation on the state of the dead. In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul speaks directly on the state of the dead and gives no hint of going straight to heaven when we die. I once had a protestant hospital chaplain friend tell me, "but there may be more to life after death than what the Bible explains." No. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, Paul begins with I would not want you to be ignorant brothers concerning those who have fallen asleep. Paul then gives details about the resurrection and gives no hint about us going straight to heaven when we die. If we went straight to heaven when we die and Paul left that out, he would have still left us ignorant and he said he was not going to leave us ignorant.

      To Paul, knowing that the dead know nothing, the next thing we will know we will be with Christ when He comes. Again Paul explains this clearly in 1 Corinthians 15. Also remember 2 Corinthians 5 is not a dissertation on the state of the dead. It is on being a new creation in Christ. When we walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh we are walking with Christ, as the body or flesh has been crucified.

      Philippians 1:21-24 also is not a dissertation on what happens when we die. Paul is expressing a desire which may be been hypothetical wishing. Or again he may have been thinking that when he died the next thing he would know would be Jesus coming. Later in Philippians 3:10-11 Paul explains his hope is in the resurrection, just as explained in 1 Corinthians 15. By reading the entire book of Philippians in context Paul is giving no indication that he or anyone else goes straight to heaven when they die. Likewise by reading all of Corinthians in context we see Paul gave no indication that we go straight to heaven when we die.

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      • Thanks for sharing your excellent thoughts, William. I am intrigued by your observation that Paul's words in Philippians 1:21-24 may have been "hypothetical wishing." I believe that you have hit the nail on the head. For a man like Paul, who has made the life of Jesus his own, when he says, "What I shall choose I cannot tell," he cannot possibly be considering taking the matter of his life or death into his own hands. Even praying for God to let him die, when he could do so much good for others with his life, would be a rather selfish prayer. Indeed, we see Paul concluding as much, in verse 24.

        This raises the question of why Paul should have chosen to openly share his musings in a letter to the Philippians. My thought is that those church members were themselves having a struggle, under persecution, and Paul wanted them to grasp the fact that even if they, as true believers, were killed, the sleep of death followed by their glorious resurrection would be a wonderful outcome for them! As you pointed out, he was certainly taking into account that the dead know nothing, so that the passage of time is nothing to them. Subjectively, death immediately transports the believer to Jesus' second coming in the clouds of glory.

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    • My thanks to you, William, and to White for your replies. Both of you have demonstrated the fallacy of using the proof-text method of bible study to arrive at doctrine because it does not consider the meaning of scripture in its context. “Any (biblical) text, without a (its historical, grammatical, canonical, and literary) context, is a pretext (an opportunity falsely taken) for a proof-text (a text abused by a preacher or Bible study leader to make a point that is not actually being made by the text itself).” (https://heidelblog.net/2010/11/any-text-without-a-context-is-pretext-for-
      a-prooftext/, accessed 2022.03.11.)

      The reason I asked this question was because a friend of mine at work had presented me with a document he had downloaded from the Bible Answer Man, where its author had piled a bunch of proof texts together to “prove” a person goes to heaven or hell when they die. It took a lot of work over several weeks to straighten out that messy pile. At the end of that process, my friend still strongly believed the “going to heaven or hell” idea. All one can do is to plant the seed with the prayer that God will grow that seed into truth and life. Changing hearts and perceptions is God’s work, not ours.

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      • Hi, Richard.

        Am I to understand that you took William's comments, and mine, to mean that we go straight to heaven or hell at the point of death?

        Actually, taking Paul's comments in the larger context of his other statements, we were saying that Paul expected to sleep in the grave, unconscious of the passage of time, until the resurrection of the just at the 2nd coming of Christ, in the last day.

        Apologies if I was not clear.

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  5. William – thank you for providing scriptural Light to what can be a very emotional subject. Grief is never a light thing to have to deal with, but when one tries to "comfort a grieving person with a lie", it doubles the burden. I am glad that you put truth into an easy to follow format and will keep the Scripture references in my reference folder for future use.

    My personal experience has been that people did not address the state of the dead at the time of the loss of a loved one. As you mentioned, though, if a preacher is teaching scriptural error from the pulpit and a person would take hold of it to comfort themselves with, that is of great concern and would need to be addressed.

    The focus of the conversation would then not be about which ‘doctrine’ is right, but rather finding comfort in the Word of God. As you rightly say: “God’s Word is Truth and it can be trusted and His Word of Truth is good news indeed that we can believe.” Again, thank you for providing the helpful Scripture references!

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  6. Thank you Pastor William for this well explained truth that over time has been lost sight of with in the Christian church as a whole, but there are some who listen the the Word.

    I once attended a Presbyterian funeral, of a family member, who I was friends with the family and had visited the deceased just before he died in which we had a wonderful conversation about Jesus and the blessed hope praise God. At the funeral, the family members got up and referred that he was in heaven, but the pastor got up and said according to the Bible he is asleep waiting for Jesus to return.
    I was so shocked to hear this, and afterwards the family was so angry with him and stated how they did not care for him, and I knew why, but kindly said he was right about what the Bible says.

    What amazes me, is how people find comfort in this lie from the fallen one, because when you stop and think about it, how can heaven be heaven, if your loved one is looking down and watching all the pain and sorrow you are going through?
    And besides this belief giving God a black eye, it also sets people up for deception, especially in the end, with the ability to do what Satan did with King Saul and with others I have known.
    Thank you for the well written truth on this important subject.

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    • Thank God for the Presbyterian pastor who spoke the truth! Truly God has His people in all churches, and will soon be calling them to come out into one fold. I imagine there are many people in these other churches who actually believe the truth about the state of the dead.

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  7. Thank you for this discussion everyone. Everyone's comments are meaningful. I was saddened recently listening to Billy Graham on the radio from his audio tapes as he clearly mislead his listeners, saying that we are born with an immortal soul. It is also the belief broadcasted by Franklin Graham and the Billy Graham Evangelism Association.

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