Home » Murder in Heaven!    


Murder in Heaven! — 33 Comments

  1. Thank you so much William. That quote from the Signs of the Times gave me a new view of the cross, its significance, and why only God Himself could be the sacrifice for our sins.

  2. That scared the heck out of me! I'm not sure what to think about this article? Im not sure that I am following you properly. I thought that God gave us assurance in the Bible that what happened in heaven with Lucifer will never happen again?
    But from your article I feel as though you are implying that there is a possibility unless we cling unto the cross. I know and agree that we should cling unto the cross, but I don't know if I can agree with your implication.
    Please clarify for me

    • Melisa, thank you so much for your comment (And everyone else) and for asking for me to clarify. I am seeing a few people on the SSNET Facebook page are jumping to conclusions without even reading the article, so I thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

      My first paragraph says, "While it is true that there will be no sin in heaven, we need to carefully examine why."

      So yes, I understand sin will not rise its ugly head a second time. However the reason why, is not because of some magic wand. God never made us into robots and we never will be made into robots. We will always have free choice, but we will choose not to sin. We will always choose not to sin because we will understand what sin did to God on the cross. We will be eternally secure from sin as we continue studying the cross for eternity.

      Lucifer was created as a perfect angel with free choice and he chose to sin. Free choice is very important to the integrity of the universe and God will never take that away. Thanks to the cross the citizens of the New Earth will always choose to be loyal to God, and sin will never rise its ugly head again.

      • I believe that the one thing which will always prevent anyone in the universe from taking any further interest in sin, throughout eternity, will be its felt and observed consequences. The history of the sin experiment will be there for all to see. It has only ever led to misery and woe. Of course, what our sin has cost God will be at the core of that. Excellent article!

      • I remember reading that the saints will travel to the far reaches of the universe, telling their story of how God redeemed them. This is the inoculation against sin.

        We will be able to sing a song in heaven that the angels wont be able to sing. It is about how a mighty God redeems. Sin will never raise its head again because the redeemed will be living proof of the character of God in action.

  3. Sure that quotation from the signs of the times has opened my eyes too. I now see the seriousness and implication of putting my desires first...LORD JESUS, PLEASE HELP ME!! I see, too, that I cannot be a saint in heaven without first being one here on earth....AND WITHOUT JESUS....for 'perfection failed in heaven and in eden - the garden of bliss!'

  4. I agree with you. Ms. White agrees with you. She and the bible state that while we are here on earth we are to perfect our character for life in heaven. Our souls will be the same in heaven as on earth. Sin will not come again because those who cling to sin will be eliminated. Because we have all experienced how bad sin is will agree with God that sin and those that cling to it will be gone from heaven. Thank you for this article it makes me realize that I need to let God recreate me and change my evil ways. I need to gently but firmly stand for God's side. Again thank you.

  5. Let me introduce a thought I have been developing...

    Sin has no excuse or it would not be sin. The cross was to provide pardon for sinners and also to demonstrate the mercy and love of God for all His creatures (including Lucifer) along with His eternal justice. If it will take the "cross" to keep sin from happening again, then Lucifer could be seen as excusable, since there was no cross when he fell to pride. Same with Adam and Eve.

    What does the Bible actually promise in Nahum 1:9? It tells us literally that another "adversary" will not "stand up" again.

    Before we elaborate that point, let's ask ourselves this: Would God have been just to cut off Lucifer when he first transgressed the law of the Creator? To ask this same question again, would God have been just to cut off Adam and Eve when they ate of the Tree? We all know the obvious answer, and hopefully we all know why God chose not to destroy sinners immediately.

    What the cross proves is that God is just if choosing to cut off a sinner in the future. He will not let another adversary rise up again, to tempt and deceive others, or to bring many innocents to ruin. No one will call God unjust when they see the scars on Jesus and hear our story of the cross. They will also not doubt that God has shown infinite mercy and will exhaust every means to restore the errant one.

    I'm not saying anyone will rebel as Lucifer did, but IF someone does, God will not allow "distress"(adversary) to come again to the innocent. God will entreat and offer forgiveness, but if finally resisted, He will be seen as just in removing the "cancer" before it can spread, and every obedient creature will praise Him and love Him for it, while mourning the loss.

    Yes, we will have free-will in heaven, and the cross is not a magic deterrent against sin because many still sin after understanding the great sacrifice of Jesus, and they actually despise the blood of the covenant by their actions. Also, we could justify those who lived before the cross if in fact the cross is necessary to "prevent" sin. I agree with the orginal post that the cross will help deter rebellion, but should not be required since God's ways are "just and true", and His works "great and marvelous". (Rev 15:3)

    Ok, I hope I have shared this as I have come to understand it, and I invite any corrections if this is wrong. You see, free choice will never be removed and now, because of the cross, we can see and accept the Justice of God if it should ever need to be exercised. And because of this, we need never fear to see another adversary "rise up" again! Just as before, we could see another, who like Lucifer, could decide to choose another path. Throughout eternity the possibility exists that we could see 10,000 such beings be overtaken by pride, but God will not allow "distress" to rise again. This is His promise, just like the promise given to Noah after the flood, with the rainbow around His throne forever.

    Another thought, IF someone happens to fall in the future, but confesses and repents, the blood of Jesus from Calvary will be for them too. It is the continual offering of the Lamb of God for eternity, His scars will prove it along with the testimony of those who are witnesses of it. We are only promised that another adversary will not be allowed to "rise up" and bring "distress".

    • Robert I believe all these questions show us why we will be studying the cross and redemption for all eternity. Just as we continue eating from the tree of life for the continue healing and health of the nations, the cross will continue to bring us healing and health spiritually. As Nahum 1:9 says sin will never rise a second time. Any thought the cross would not be why sin would not rise the second time would be a legalistic thought and we know there is no legalism in heaven. The cross brings us eternal salvation. This is why the cross will be our theme throughout eternity. Many of these questions and more will be answered then.

      • Just so I understand you William, are you saying all obedience prior to the cross was legalism? The angels who never sinned were/are legalists? The unfallen worlds were/are legalists?

        For redeemed sinners, the meaning of Jesus' death for us will be central, and all who are saved from sin will have settled this matter. However, what about the creation yet to be born? I believe our story will be vital, and indeed, it is possible that there will never be another departure from God's perfect government. But to me, the scripture states literally that there will be no more devil-type "adversary" such as God allowed to exist in Satan, for purposes we only begin to understand today. The opportunity for free thought will exist as before, and should one deviate from God's will, it will not be allowed to fully blossom into the rebellion we see today.

        I'm only referring to the fact that free-will is never to be removed, and should transgression come, it will not be allowed to affect others.

        Perhaps I am not relating clearly my thoughts on the matter, and to me, it's not vital to get correctly, since it's an unknown. But I can see the meaning of the promise and realize that God is not removing choice, but will never again allow sin to reign unchecked. The promise to Noah of no flood did not mean no rain or localized flooding. 🙂

        • Robert, of course I do not mean to imply that obedience before the cross was legalistic, but of course true obedience in motivated by love. This is why God did not wipe Lucifer out when he first rebelled. Had God done that the other angels would have served out of fear rather than love. I am simply referring to the last Spirit of Prophecy quote in the post here that reads, "That which alone can effectually restrain from sin in this world of darkness, will prevent sin in heaven. The significance of the death of Christ will be seen by saints and angels. Fallen men could not have a home in the paradise of God without the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Shall we not then exalt the cross of Christ? The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God. -Ellen White, Signs of the Times, December 30, 1889." Nothing more nothing less,

          As far as the unborn goes, Jesus says we will not be marrying in heaven but will be like the angels. I do not know if that means we will not be procreating or not or if God will keep creating life or not. I cannot imagine God not continuing to create new life, but yet I don't know. I guess what I am trying to say is, maybe no one will be born or created after this time, therefore no one will be born without free choice. I don't know and I really don't want to get tangled up in a discussion here about it because we just don't know and it would be a waste of time to discuss.

          There is a lot we don't know as we will be learning throughout all eternity, but we do know that the cross will be our theme throughout eternity.

        • Unborn creation would not mean on earth. I expect that God will forever be creating, because He is a creator.

          I have no argument with the statement quoted, but might interpret it differently. I don't claim to understand it fully, but feel that it was possible to creation to choose obedience before the cross, or God's creation would be flawed and his expectations unreal. Yet the scriptures tell us differently.

          I think we have to realize there are some discussion we can't fully conclude in this life, and that will continue to unfold throughout eternity.

          • Robert, there is a paragraph just before the one I posted from the Spirit of Prophecy dated 1899. I should have included this to begin with as I believe it helps explain things a little better. I actually went ahead and added it to the paragraph. Lucifer's accusations put questions in the angels minds. The cross forever answers those questions so there will be no need for the cross to be repeated. Those questions are forever answered. Of course the Sanctuary message brings this out too.

            "The death of Christ upon the cross made sure the destruction of him who has the power of death, who was the originator of sin. When Satan is destroyed, there will be none to tempt to evil; the atonement will never need to be repeated; and there will be no danger of another rebellion in the universe of God." Signs of the Times Dec. 30 1899

  6. "It is through the efficacy of the cross"

    Efficacy of the cross meaning the effect of the cross. It is what Jesus did on the cross! Not what we do. It is what Jesus did that changes us and only Jesus and his sacrifice is our assurance that we will never sin again in heaven or on the new earth.

    • Digging deeper into the meaning of what the Cross stands for from a true existential perspective. There shouldn't be any limitation to the liberation that comes as a reward from the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. As an ultimate spiritual being our restora begins in physical earth time and then it's further complimented by our existence in a higher form of dimensional reality like Heaven and the New Earth. In other words Saints who live on earth while it is still sin filled can be trophies of the victory at Calvary and triumph over sinful temptations prior to the 2nd Coming of the Savior. All of the NT is an assurance for this blessfull promise.

  7. I must admit, too, that I am puzzled by your comments. Why would you assume that our thoughts concerning the Cross are going to determine our decisions whether to sin or not to sin in Heaven? Would an EVIL thought be reason enough to be "kicked out of Heaven?" While on Earth, we have a tempter. So who might be this tempter in Heaven? Ourselves? I don't mean any malice by this statement, but "Are you now a prophet?" Nahum 1:9(NCV) "The Lord will completely destroy anyone making plans against Him. Trouble will not come a second time." Jehovah has spoken!
    So are you saying that there is a Sacrifice should man sin? Recently in our Sabbath School Lessons, we studied about the Sacrificial System concerning iniquity. Sin will be obliterated! AMEN!
    These very thoughts have crossed my mind because we have had lengthy discussions at our church concerning this similar subject: Will it be POSSIBLE to sin in Heaven? God's Law is eternal. What are you basing your conclusions on? We have been searching for answers. Maybe the answer is not for us at this time. Remember sin is a mystery. Can you share any Scripture or Inspired Writings to satiate our queries?
    Thank you for your considerations.

  8. Ron I believe the Scriptures and Spirit of Prophecy quotes go along with Nahum 1:9. Nahum 1:9 tells us sin will never rise a second time. As we continue studying the Scriptures along with the Spirit of Prophecy we understand why. We will continue studying the cross for all eternity and more and of our questions will be answered. Sin will never rise a second time thanks to the cross. This is why the cross will be our theme throughout all eternity as was explained the last Spirit of Prophecy quote the post provided.

    I know your question 'Are you a prophet" was not meant to be taken seriously, and does not warrant an answer, but because I am human and very fallible, and do fall, I stick with the Scriptures and let the Scriptures explain things according to Isaiah 28:10, line upon line, precept or idea upon precept and idea. I never claimed to be a prophet and I never claimed to right about everything. We all make mistakes but my prayer is always "Jesus keep me near the cross" because I know that is my only safety.

  9. We will continue eating from the tree of life for continual healing. Moses threw a tree in the water once to make the bitter water sweet. The tree represented the cross that makes our bitter lives sweet. I wonder if the tree of life also represents the cross that will continue to bring us healing. I do know this. Any thought that we will just be automatically perfect without depending upon Jesus is sheer legalism. There will be no legalism in heaven. legalism always fails and leads us to apostasy and self worship which is exactly where sin began! The cross will prevent that from ever happening again. Sin will not rise a second time, not because of legalism but because of the cross. As we keep focused on the cross for eternity we will be eternally secure from legalism and self worship and apostasy.

  10. I thank you William for the wonderful study that actually sin started in heaven. but then am still not getting something that the books of heaven record that they were permitted to sin, that they could have sinned. so my query is what is that motivates our obedience to God¿

    • Enock, our motivation before and after the cross and before and after sin should always be love. The cross was needed after Lucifer put questions into the angel's minds. The cross answers those questions and the sacrifice will never need to be repeated because thanks to the cross those questions will never come up again and sin will not arise a second time.

      We love him, because he first loved us. 1 John 4:19

      Love to God is the very foundation of religion. To engage in His service merely from the hope of reward or the fear of punishment would avail nothing. Open apostasy would not be more offensive to God than hypocrisy and mere formal worship.—Manuscript 135, 1899 (Youth’s Instructor, June 13, 1901; June 20, 1901). {CTr 139.6}

      It is not the fear of punishment, or the hope of everlasting reward, that leads the disciples of Christ to follow Him. They behold the Saviour's matchless love, revealed throughout His pilgrimage on earth, from the manger of Bethlehem to Calvary's cross, and the sight of Him attracts, it softens and subdues the soul. Love awakens in the heart of the beholders. They hear His voice, and they follow Him. {DA 480.3}

      • Love this last post Mr. Earmhardt. It has been my own personal experience that the more that I know Him, the more I love Him and the less attraction sin has for me. I have given up trying to be perfect depending instead on Christ's atoning sacrifice. But this does not mean that I keep on sinning. To my great surprise I've found that the more I embrace the cross and claim it's merits for my salvation and perfection, the less I desire to sin, and the more I want to please God. But I do have sinful thoughts which the love of/for Christ keeps me from bringing to fruition. I must say though that I am looking forward to the day when I shall be changed and imbued with a new nature and I will no longer have sinful thoughts crossing my mind.

      • William you say the cross was needed after "Lucifer put questions in the angles mind". Are you saying that the plan of salvation was for Lucifer and his angels? I thought the plan of salvation was for Adam and Eve and all earths inhabitants. We can only guess what the war in heaven was like. There most likely are powers there that are beyond our comprehension. If you play what if, what if Adam and Eve had never sinned? Gods forknowledge also becomes a question in this type of discussion.

        • No, Paul, I am not saying the plan of salvation was for Lucifer and the angels. The quote by Ellen White refers to the unfallen angels. As far as your concern about Lucifer and his angels, Ellen White says, in Patriarchs and Prophets, page 39, that " In great mercy, according to His divine character, God bore long with Lucifer." If you want to read Patriarchs and Prophets, the chapter "Why was Sin Permitted" it will answer a lot of your "what ifs?" you will find how God's loved was greatly used to persuade Lucifer against His rebellion. This is why when the sanctuary is cleansed, the responsibility for sin will be placed on the scapegoat (Satan) as the sanctuary of our minds will be cleansed from all of Satan's lies and we will never question God's love ever again. Since we will never question God's love again sin will never rise a second time. Nahum 1:9.

  11. Jesus Saves, is a true statement but has left me in the past wondering what does it really mean? I noticed it used above and felt motivated to share a humbly presented postulation.

    If Jesus Christ is God the Father, incarnate, which I believe He is and the Holy Trinity being or consisting of God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, God corporate or God. One is All, and All is One.

    Then on the cross hung murdered God for all the universe to witness. I agree if sin murdered God on earth, then it would undoubtedly attempt the same act in heaven.

    The murder was acted out, it was no longer theory or possible claim that sin could or would murder God if given the chance. Sin now stands guilty as charged, no more excuses, no more legal maneuvers, sin killed Jesus Christ, the Man, the Son of God, the Lamb slain from the foundation (creation) of the universe.

    Jesus was dead Lamb walking, He knew this. Fully informed, He willingly offered up His life, His position of ultimate authority as God, He endured by the hand of man being motivated by sin the absolute worst humliation, torture, and death without knowing if He would receive resurrection. If He had known that resurrection was assured, other than through faith, then sin could claim Christ's willingness to die was an act or ritual by a person who stood to gain everything - earth, all the universe and more.

    In simplistic terms, The Father now offers The Son, anything in His kingdom, anything in His infinate power He can offer to make up for suffering a priceless life's death. Christ chooses that repentant mankind, His people, will share in the promised eternal heavenly kingdom.

    Unworthy, sinful mankind, has a second chance to eternal life due to Trustworthy God who became man, was murdered as a result of false charges brought against Him, suffered this ultimate universal injustice, chooses to have unworthy man with Him, and now we can begin to know Jesus Saves.

    • John, well said. Great insight.
      Sin murdered Jesus Christ.
      He said, before Calvary: I lay down my life, and I take it up again.
      As Man He died. As God He returns.
      And He brings a multitude with Him in resurrection.
      Gina is right. We will be studying this for quite a while. Our limited experience and understanding give us major limitations in grasping the meaning of this. But we will have lots of time to study when we really get to know Who God is, and the meaning of His condescension and sacrifice. Wow.

  12. Some great conversations here. I think we will need all eternity to study this subject and God's love for us. How grateful I am that God wants me to chose Him and gives me the power to be a daughter of God and not a slave. I think this article highlights the goodness of God and his love for us all. Thank you all for your Christian comments and thoughts my God bless all of you and we all meet in heaven.

  13. Thank our Father in Heaven: Jesus has opened the way into the Holiest, forever, and invites to come with confidence before the throne of grace. The old rugged cross of shame and cruelty has long deteriorated and returned to dust; but the Lamb, slain and resurrected, lives forevermore, and so shall we.

    "The death of Christ upon the cross made sure the destruction of him who has the power of death....."
    "The significance of the death of Christ will be seen by saints and angels."
    "Fallen men could not have a home in the paradise of God without the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
    "Shall we not then exalt the cross of Christ?"
    "The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God."
    "It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy."
    "Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan."
    "All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God." {5BC 1132.8} -Ellen White, Signs of the Times, December 30, 1889.

  14. In God's purified universe, through the Resurrected Jesus Christ our Savior:
    Satan, sin and death would have been destroyed forever.
    The cross, symbol of demonic cruelty, sin and death would be gone forever.
    The physical traces of sin and death in the universe would be gone forever.

    Jesus Christ, crucified>resurrected would be our guarantor and study forever.
    Jesus Christ our Savior and Lord would reign forever.
    Love will reign forever.

    The will of man, committed to God, sealed by the Holy Spirit, will b

  15. Satan's & Rome's cross of rebellion and death cannot save me.
    Nor is it my study nor affection nor means of salvation. Not now. Not ever.
    Jesus Christ, Son of God, Son of Man, God/Man is and will always be Savior.
    Lamb of God I study, now, forever.

    Sacrifice cannot save us (Rome's cross included)(Heb. 9, 10)
    If there is no resurrection, HE is dead and so are we (1 Cor. 15)
    In Baptism:
    We die with JESUS, are buried and resurrected with JESUS = Life forever.

    The power of our Gospel is not Rome's cross.
    The power of the Gospel is the sacrificed, buried and resurrected Savior.
    The suffering and death of Jesus Christ was our sin, not Rome's cross.

    Freedom to choose:
    Whether we want to LIVE and SHARE GOD'S existence (sealed by HOLY SPIRIT)
    OR Whether we want to return to non-existence.
    Not choose how we want to live, but whether we want to live or be extinct.
    Current existence is only probationary - being given time to choose.

    What does it mean to take up our cross and follow Him?


Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

HTML tags allowed in your comment: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>