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Sunday: Tradition — 25 Comments

    • Hi James

      My thoughts in regard to your question is the principle contained in Matthew 7:16. A tradition that leads a person to a closer walk with God and greater service to others is a beneficial tradition to/for them. A tradition that results in an impaired walk with God and lesser service to others is a detrimental tradition to/for them.

      Having said that, there is also need to keep in mind what Paul discussed in 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14. A tradition that may be beneficial to me may at the same time be detrimental to others. In such instances, I would need to consider carefully how I might proceed.

      (21)
      • Thank you, Phil. I am looking forward to hopefully others to chime in. You have lent good insight toward an answer. Grateful for your taking the time to respond to my question.

        (6)
        • Thank you Phil. Here is a scenario that my wife and I faced last Sabbath: we Zoomed into our S.S.Class with our webcam camera etc. There were about ten participants. One of the participants was a couple that were still in their bath tub together and it was obvious that they were wearing very little, if any, clothing. So, my question here would be: was it appropriate for this couple to join a spiritual bible study Zoom meeting in that context?

          (3)
          • Perhaps we may take a moment to notice that the way we instinctively try to resolve issues is to make a call as to what is appropriate versus inappropriate behaviour.

            But is there another factor we might need to consider first?

            1 Samuel 16:7 outlines how God approaches and responds to such issues. What do you see?

            Now it is true that we may not be able to gain insight into a person’s heart motive - but it is perhaps a better place to start to at least consider what that motive might be.

            So I would propose that we at least give consideration to potential heart motives that might be underpinning a certain behaviour first and foremost. And that we then go on to consider the implications of the behaviour itself - after we have considered heart motive.

            Doing so would be progressing one step (or maybe even microstep) towards God’s “higher ways” of doing things in our restoration journey to progressively greater and greater Christlikeness.

            What do others think?

            (1)
    • "How do we know when tradition is bad or good?"

      Isn't it rather simple? From whom does the tradition come? Is it supported by "thus saith the Lord" or not?

      "It is written" is our only True Guide"

      (2)
  1. Where I come from India, we will always leave our slippers outside the church. It is unthinkable for us to enter the church with our slippers. Removing of the slippers was a traditional value to remind us we are in the holy ground. We have come to the presence of God to hear him speak to us.

    We may remove the slippers physically but spiritually we could have desecrated the temple of God. Jesus himself speaking on this with their lips they serve me but their hearts are far from me. They emphasize keeping the outside clean but their inside is like a white washed sepulcher

    Take an inventory of the things, why do we do what we do? What we do how does it draws us closer to God?

    (22)
  2. Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee.

    Is tradition wrong or right? What do we do when tradition contradict the bible? Are we willing to let go of tradition Some of, all of, none of, just because the work for us?

    I will like to list a few thing, some will/can say whether the are tradition or biblical.

    Women preaching in church as ordained preachers?
    Women should keep silent in church?
    Wearing of pants by women to church?
    Wearing of black and white to communion service?
    Wearing of uniform to clubs eg Dorcas society, pathfinder, adventurer etc.
    Men dressing in suits to church?
    The wearing of jewels; a pin on men tie, small ear-rings? etc.
    Wearing of the wedding band?
    Working on Sabbath even if it is not saving lives (those auxiliary jobs)?
    Paying of tithe of offering to the church?
    Women and men wearing of 'make-up' on their faces?
    Women and men wearing braids/extension/ on their hair?
    The eating of clean meat?
    Cooking on the sabbath if we have to cook for a lg set of people?
    Should Christians be dressing anyhow saying "Render your heart and not your garment".

    Those and more have resulted in people leaving the church because of being confused. What is the standard of the bible? Does the standard of the bible crosses all culture? Can one say it is good for one culture and not another?

    I will mention this again. One day we had a discussion in church about some of those above and others. Some members have taken to the far right, while some to the far left. But does the bible has anything to say about those? I knew what I stood for. I decided to present and leave it there. As I was going home I heard a voice said to me (as clear as crystal). Pray that God change their minds. What I came to realized was, God starts from the inside and works his way to the outside. If he captures our minds/hearts with his love, he captures us. As God starts on our minds, we ourselves will put away several things that we once like that is not in God's plan for us. God is love. He bares long with people. He bares long with me.
    Let him become our personal, private and open guide.

    The things I used to do I do them no more.
    The places I used to go I go them no more.
    I things I used to eat I eat them no more. etc etc.
    Its a great change since I was born.

    (36)
    • Lyn, as someone raised as a Baptist, I have had some of these thoughts myself. Another tradition I would have added, which is very often a source of controversy within congregations, is worship. Hymns vs. contemporary, which instruments are appropriate, clapping hands or lifting hands... my prayer is that tradition would not come between us and God. I have seen some leave the church because of different views on tradition.

      (8)
    • One thing that strikes me was the prayer Lyn prayed. "Pray that God change 'THEIR' minds.." When we talk about traditions and customs we are always of the opinion that I am right and you or they are wrong. We should pray that God change "OUR" minds to reflect and think as He does.

      (6)
    • Lyn Lew On, we should guide ourselves as true SDA Christians according to Old Testament guidelines and also guidelines of Jesus as New Testament guidelines: We should always show in our lives a difference between 1. The clean and the unclean, the common and the uncommon, the holy and the unholy. 2. Jesus never made an issue of dress, diet, music, or jewelry. And we should always make the Promises of God and His word (especially Jesus' Words) against sin in our lives and towards living healthy useful lives towards ourselves and others.

      (5)
  3. I would divide 'traditions' into two categories:
    1) those that affect what we believe and our relationship with the LORD,
    and
    2) those that affect what we do and don't do, like those in Lyn's list in her post.

    I think those in (1) are critical, like do I believe in pre-destination or freedom of choice?

    I think that those in (2) really only matter when we 'belong' to a group, do we need to have a set of 'standards' with which all must comply? Why do we spend so much time on what we wear, how we adorn ourselves, what we eat, how we 'do church' does it matter? Yes, to a certain extent because they reflect our character which reflects Jesus' character to others.

    In Mark 7:1-23 Jesus discussed the issue of traditions being put above God's word and love for others and not judging them.
    The tradition of washing hands was a good one as we all know in this pandemic, however using it to judge others salvation was not good!

    (5)
  4. Tradition cannot have higher importance than the love of God. Loving God means love our neighbors too. A love of vertical and horizontal directions. We must develop such a connection with God thus our hearts can be convicted about all traditions to have lesser importance. When God comes first, everything else matters less. So the problem with tradition lies within our hearts, not outside in appearance! The essence must come first than the form! And all that I do have to answer, do I scandal God or my brothers with this? Even when I know inside my heart that it does not have such importance to me. Balance in all, Love first!

    (3)
  5. The final question of today’s lesson was an interesting one for me. What came to mind, was our tradition of foot washing and the ordinance of humility. When Jesus gave that as something to do yearly, instead of the Passover feast, it was to direct us to contemplate his life of service and humility. Somewhere along the way, it became something “we do”. Over the years, going into the room for the foot washing, it is noisy with people chatting, catching up on the latest thing, and it has completely lost its meaning. When people are done with that, then the noise continues in the church, while waiting for all to finish in the foot washing area.
    To me, this sacred service has become a “tradition”, without the meaning and life changing effect it was meant to have. It was actually a gift to us that seems to have gone by the wayside.

    (9)
    • Unfortunately, many children are brought to do things like communion and foot washing, and are never told why we do these things. I remember as a child being told I couldn't take part, until I understood why we did them. My parents later explained, but how many actually explain, why? It does seem to have become a chat time. I am not sure if this is because of nervousness, but we should remember why we are doing these things, or it will become just another tradition.

      (2)
      • We are a global community of faith, so I would suggest we are careful about assuming what happens in our local churches happens in all. I have never been to a foot washing service where it became a 'chat time'.
        Why am I becoming defensive? Am I judging those who make it a 'chat time' am I claiming my church is better than theirs? This is the problem when we focus on other peoples behavior as compared to ours. Maybe those who 'chat' are more caring than those who huddle in their 'holier than thou' cliques?
        Again we come back to the issue of "group control" when we let the majority define the norms for everyone, what does the Holy Spirit via Paul mean in Eph 4:13 "till we all come to the unity of faith" reading the rest of Eph 4 he mentions growth of the body in love, renewed in the spirit of your mind, say only beneficial things, and ends - be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as the LORD forgives you"

        The big question in a group is can you change their mindset? Should you? If so how? What needs to change? Their behavior? Their hearts? Their understanding of the character of the LORD?

        (6)
    • I have found that even thou we discuss each others family,  work, etc. at foot washing, we each end with a prayer for our partner.  Our pastor, elder, or layman ends with a song and a prayer.  If your group has abandoned this tradition within a tradition, be the one to restart it.   Maybe not all will follow your example,  but  we know by our example the Holy Spirit is working on their hearts.

      (4)
  6. I used to think "cleanliness is next to godliness" was in the bible. Some people in my community quoted it as if it were. Cleanliness is a "good" tradition that is well regarded in my community. That tradition is not equal to God's commandments.

    (0)
    • God and cleanliness
      Even if that exact phrase is not found in the Bible the concept definitely is there, physically and spiritually. The opposite of unclean is actually holy and if we want to be close to God we need to be clean or rather holy. God definitely commanded them not to be unclean.

      Lev 10:10 Even for a distinction between the holy and unholy, and between the unclean and clean
      Deu_23:14 For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.

      If you do a word search for "unclean" you will find about 150 verses, dealing with what makes one unclean, which shows that God wanted them to be clean. They could not go into the sanctuary if they were unclean, some had to out of the camp if they were unclean.Whole chapters are devoted to clean or unclean animals.

      (2)
  7. Bring a list of "Traditions" to discuss in SS?!! Good way to stall a lesson study at the first part of the lesson!

    Perhaps we should encourage one another to pray for wisdom and then come together to address this matter with prayer and study, taking each tradition and examining it in the light of God's Word. But not during the SS lesson time, which is too short already.

    Actually, I believe the question to discuss is "Why is it always important to distinguish them from a biblical teaching?"

    This topic deserves close study and much prayer.

    (1)
  8. I am late to the discussion, but I would like to add to the list of traditions. No reference to whether bad or good, simply traditions:

    Church attendance on Sabbath.
    An educated clergy - different spiritual class from members
    Preaching from an elevated platform.
    The order of service.
    Sabbath school classes, followed by a worship hour.
    A church building owned by the conference.
    The layout of the congregation facing the Pastor
    Musical instruments in church service.
    Payment of tithe during the worship hour.

    Well that is all for now, but there is more.

    (1)
  9. Hello sorry may I take you back to the first lesson as. When we were discussing with a friend we met a difficult somewhere, "we saw that the Bible was written over 1500 years with more than 40 writers and in different regions (Africa,Asia and Europe) now the question came who collected this books and assembled them to Book called Bible today and when. Can I have reference too

    (0)
  10. I'm trying to understand if the communion service at the end of every quarter is a tradition of the church which must be adhered to without waiver. I know the bible says "As often as" and I haven't seen anywhere where Sister White said every 12th Sabbath it should be observed. Please enlighten me.

    (0)

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