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Thursday: Spiritual Legacy — 25 Comments

  1. I sometimes rebel at the notion that God owns everything. Much of the language is based on the feudal system where the Lord of the Manor owned everything, even the serfs. He could take whatever he wanted whenever he wanted and nobody could oppose him. My preference is for a model that reminds us that God created us and wants to work with us collaboratively and benevolently. The Genesis story reminds us that God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, and it was not a case of "This is mine, look after it, or else!". The story suggests cooperation.

    Perhaps we can think of our later year giving, not as giving back to God, but as continuing to share in his work.

    Here are a couple of ideas that are perhaps pertinent to today's study.

    1) I am going to get my knuckles rapped for this one, but have we thought seriously about giving outside the Seventh-day Adventist organisation? I will give you an example. A Seventh-day Adventist primary school wanted to help people at Christmas time. Normally they would collect non-perishable food and give it to ADRA to distribute, but this year they decided to give the food to the Salvation Army. The Salvation Army sent a car around to collect the food but when they arrived, they realised they needed a small truck. They were simply astounded at the generosity of the Seventh-day Adventist children. They thought we only helped ourselves and were amazed that we were willing to help one another.

    Don't get me wrong. ADRA does a good job, but in this case the simple act of generosity by Adventist children, and of course, their teachers, went a long way to breaking down walls of prejudice.

    2) Giving back to the community at large is something that speaks volumes about our kind of Christianity. Seventh-day Adventists are often seen as exclusive of others. When we make an effort to give our time for the benefit of others, it shows that we understand what Christianity is about. Often community members judge Seventh-day Adventists as Bible-bashing proselytizers, who given half a chance will give a Bible study or a vegetarian cooking lesson. Sometimes the best way to break down this sort of prejudice is to give of ourselves to the community.

    Finally, it's not really about the money - it's about relationships - and we don't build relationships when we are dead! That is collaboration, not ownership.

    (82)
    • No rapping on knuckles here. Our church provides a meal once a month to those at Salvation Army. Such a great idea.

      (8)
    • I tried to see the way Maurice 'sometimes rebel at the notion God owns everything' I couldn't see myself collaborating, with something of my own, be it my time, my experience, my skills, assets etc. Still I will collaborate by using what is His after all.

      (1)
  2. I attend a century-old timber framed church, with additions about 60 years old. I hold in awe the faithful Christians who sacrificed to build a school, then a church, and then sat on the floor each Sabbath until they could afford timber to make pews. The building has survived two devastating earthquakes, with only cosmetic damage, but requires engineering work to meet a new standard from 2028, so we are considering a new building.

    However, the last two weeks have caused me to ponder...are we just coveting?

    A new building will be modern and comfortable, but serves no greater community function than our current church. The pews are only full when the school holds morning chapel, and the hall is rarely used by the church. We know our list of wants for a new building, but our needs are already met in the old building.

    To make ourselves look better, or to sit more comfortably for a couple of hours each week, are we actually guilty of coveting a new building?

    Is it right to bulldoze the church that others sacrificed so much for, if our building already provides our needs, and can be brought up to standard?

    Does it make sense to fundraise for a new church, when this means we are unlikely to also have time or energy to fundraise for ADRA, or school, or mission efforts?

    Does it make sense to take a loan for a new church, when many of the congregation will only be able to afford repayments if they stop supporting missions or other charity?

    (27)
    • Russell, here is a model you may like to consider. Why not build a church, not as a dedicated church but as a community centre that is available to the community? I came across this idea when I visited the Adventist Church in Sebastopol in California (1997). The church is used as a sports centre during the week. It makes a valuable and appreciated contribution to community life. It is well used and makes a statement about how the church feels about the local community.

      I see this idea starting to be used here in Australia now. The U3A group I belong to uses a couple of churches for their activities.

      I know there is some resistance to the idea of using a church for secular purposes, but I think it breaks down community barriers.

      Later Addition:

      I can understand the heartache about replacing old churches with new ones. My father built a church in New Zealand. The family donated about 12 Rimu trees and a number of Tawa trees for the church and my father spent about 4 years of his life trying to dairy farm, support us kids going through Avondale, and build the ~300-seat church. The church was debt free within a short time. After about 25 years, while my father was still alive, the church decided to sell church and build a new one elsewhere. To be fair, it was a good decision. The area around the church had become commercial, parking was difficult and it was busy on Sabbath. But you can imagine how my father felt about it. He was in his 80s and to make it worse, Dad became an emotional pawn in the decision discussions. I bear no animosity toward those who had to make the decision, but it was hard on my father, and on the rest of the family because we lived too far away to support him. You know some of my family so you could ask them how they felt and reacted to the situation.

      Sometimes there are no easy answers. But the family situation made me rethink the whole idea of purpose-built churches that are essentially only used for a few hours each week. A building that is shareable with the community reaches a long way.

      (35)
      • I look at a church hall as a sanctuary and will abhor seeing it used as a sports center. Where is the holiness of a place of worship if sports activities defile it? In Africa we revere the place of worship, and so we build a hall within the same compound for all other community activities including a feeding program, relief distribution, and other meetings.

        (5)
        • Pete, we SDA's here in North America also reverence our house of worship. I do believe there are other ways to open up to the community then to open up the house of the Lord to become a sports center 6 days of the week. Large churches here have health, well being, welfare, share your faith, and evangelistic programs, all open to the public through out the week, in adjacent buildings. Sabbath school, church services, after church fellowship meal, afternoon Bible fellowship, and sundown worship, are open to the public also.

          (0)
      • From a worldly point of view, I understand what you are saying Maurice. I don't want to write a 10 page essay, so I will just ask you to read what Ellen White has to say about the sacredness and the reverence we need to place on our places of worship. When I walk into my church Sabbath morning, I am meeting with the King of the universe and I want it to be special. If I can't set aside enough money for just that purpose then I may possibly need to re-evaluate my thinking on stewardship.

        Before we could afford to build our church we met in the school gym. There were all kinds of things there that pull your mind to the activities of the week.

        The problem often exists that we feel we need a multi-million-dollar structure that is a little nicer than the church one block over. Build within your means.

        (4)
        • I have read what Ellen White has said on the subject and I visited a church where the sermon consisted of readings from Testimonies to the Church on this topic. After the service, I went outside where nobody welcomed us as visitors to the church. Something was wrong. Someone had forgotten to switch on the happy welcome button and it was a sombre, rather condemnatory experience.

          On the other hand, for more years than I can care to remember, I have met in school halls and classrooms, where putting out the chairs and packing them away again was a congregational activity done with joy and happiness and the sense that we were working together.

          By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:35 KJV

          I want to share in the love experience, even if it is noisy!

          (10)
      • Thanks Maurice, Appreciate your time and considered response. I understand where you, and the family, are coming from... and with similar thoughts about a new purpose-built church, when congregational use is generally only Sabbath mornings.
        I'd rather build a gymnasium, and welcome the community every day of the week!
        Competition amongst churches is great - within an easy stroll from my house are ten churches and six charity shops. The churches host a broad spectrum of services and activities. From training gym to U3A, from doctors to counsellors, from play groups to council consultations and voting booths, there is almost every service provided by the local "Sunday" churches except a full court gymnasium.

        (5)
      • I think sometimes we have a wrong understanding of what the king of the universe wants from us. I think of the hymn we sang at the beginning of church service when I was a child, "The Lord is in his holy temple (3x) Let all the earth keep silence . . ." I was recently directed to Hab. 2:20 which it is based on. Read the whole chapter. It has nothing to do with worship! It is telling the wicked nations and people to stop their bragging and shut up in the presence of God, the one who really is in charge.
        Then look at various worship experiences in the Bible, particularly in OT Israel. After crossing the Red Sea, Dedication of the Temple. Many others. They are joyous occasions, celebrated with loud praises to God, lots of instruments, dancing. I'm afraid we may have a totally wrong concept of God. We know he is concerned about all aspects of our lives--and of those around us.
        While I can sympathize with concerns about sitting in church thinking about Thursday nights basketball game because I am staring at the hoops, I also firmly agree with Maurice that a building that is only used four hours a week is a terrible waste. There are a lot of ways it can become a community center (or centre?) and it may look different for each community and church, but thanks for reminding us that God's plans may be way bigger and broader than our limited vision.

        (3)
  3. The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein. (Psalm 24:1)

    For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. (Hebrews 3:4)

    And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Colossians 1:17)

    It is probably cultural. Growing up and watching people around gives anyone this "acquired collectiveness". Sometimes the preaching does not match the practice. What kind of sense of property am I passing through? It is easy to say "detach from material things", but what about the practice of this concept? And this is not to blame my ancestors, because if I want to evolve today, I must let some past things go away. Past can give me experience, but a bunch of stuff is just a waste to be carrying on. I want to change, and I realize that changing is not an easy thing to do. I'm genuinely trying to be a better person today than yesterday, and to leave this sense (or concept) to my descendants. Look at this text,

    We have no external enemies that we need to fear. Our great conflict is against the unconsecrated self. When we conquer self, we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. My brethren, there is eternal life for us to gain. We fight the great fight of faith. Our proof is not in the future, but is now. As it drags on, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things" - the things which now serve Satan's purpose as snares, to deceive and destroy - "shall be added unto you." Matt. 6:33. Review and Herald, March 5, 1908.

    I'd say this is still very fresh!

    (10)
  4. Your suggestion about church buildings being used by the community is quite interesting, Maurice.
    Isn't this the same model that was used during the first century as regards synagogues? Weren't synagogues used for communal events: schools, courts, worship and other activities?

    (11)
    • You are right. Dedicated church buildings did not really start until about 300 AD in Constantinople. The Jewish Synagogue model was very much based on community use. It was a gathering place and was much more than just a place for worship on Sabbath.

      (10)
    • The church which I attend first met in a factory warehouse, until they could afford to buy land and build a school. Once the school was completed, they held Sabbath services in the schoolroom until they could afford to build a church.
      We are grateful for their foresight, for the school, and its good reputation, have expanded far beyond that one room. The church, in that sense, has been a community centre since 1925, although somewhat inwardly focussed.

      (3)
    • Wonder what other secular the children of Israel would have used the temples for, after dedicating it to the Lord Almighty? Can't understand playing or discussing secular agendas in the presence of God in the sanctuary. It is worshipping in humbleness and in gratitude in that old Chapel, than in a new Chapel that will serve the same purpose. But build new one if it is structurally unsafe for the members.

      (1)
      • Perhaps, we need to distinguish between the role of the sanctuary and synagogues particularly during the period when they overlapped. They were very different. The synagogue was a community meeting place, while the sanctuary was more a ceremonial place. Today, the sanctuary is in heaven and our churches fulfil the role of the synagogues. Does that make sense?

        (5)
        • Maurice – a thought came to mind as I read your post. Looking beyond the meaning of the word ‘sanctuary’ depicting a structure, does it not also stand for serving the spiritual needs of the community by keeping a spiritual 'save place' - a sanctuary - available in the church’s physical 'sanctuary'?
          Whether inside the physical sanctuary or part of the church building in an anteroom set aside for the specific purpose of retreating from the world to meditate and pray, this place could offer those who need a ‘sanctuary retreat’ a place to come to. Ideally, there would be someone on site to pray with them or counsel them if needed.
          I think that catholic churches are open during the day to step into their sanctuary for anyone who needs a temporary retreat from the world to reflect and spend time with God. I believe that most hospitals also may make such a room availble for patients and their visitors.

          (4)
      • I'm curious why God would be uninterested in "secular agendas"? He is interested in all aspects of our lives. Granted there are "evil" agendas that would be out of place (The Jews did that before the Babylonian exile). But to think that God only cares about us when we worship Him or study the Bible seems to break the relational model Christ was trying to build. As Johnny Cash once sang, sometimes we may be "too Heavenly minded to be any earthly good."

        (1)
  5. ‘Spiritual Legacy’ – ‘laying up treasures in heaven’ – how is this accomplished? Do we want our name on a bench or building; do we want to contribute in order to be recognized? I am not sure if this lesson is meant to speak exclusively to SDA members, or if it reflects the basic tenant of our Christian faith - love God with all your heart and love your fellow man as you have been loved.

    I am sure that all major denominations hope their members will include them in their final will and help them generate much needed financial funds to pay for the upkeep of their organizational structure and their ministries; there is nothing wrong with that. If the giving is accompanied by official recognition, though, it could, in my opinion, be used as a spectacle.

    In my opinion, all ‘laying up of treasures in heaven’ is entirely spiritually sourced. I want to emphasize again that it ought to be the Spirit of Christ which guides us in our living, giving, and sharing. Ellen White says that “(it) will be registered to your account in the kingdom of heaven.” If this is sufficient for the member of the Body of Christ, then giving anonymously is preferable – Matt. 6:1-4.

    Maybe this approach, remaining ananymous in our gift-giving, could promote selfless living more than anything else. Once the 'giver’s reward’ is truly sought to come from 'heaven', then we know that our giving comes from the heart without ulterior motives. I just see us as good stewards of all of God's blessings in all that we are and do.

    (7)
  6. Well... it's pretty clear the main focus of this week's lesson is to encourage us to leave money to the church. This is not a bad thing and I certainly would want some of my own wealth to go to several church projects that are close to my heart.

    However, if the earth is the Lord's and everything belongs to Him, then really everything we give is given to the Lord. To see the Lord's Work as exclusive to the Seventh-day Adventist church is short-sighted. There are many other entities that are doing good. Individuals can also be blessed by our money. If I had it, I would love to give gifts to friends who have debts and struggle to get by. Is that not giving to God? It seems it is, if everything and everyone ultimately belong to Him.

    I'm not saying we should give to anything or everything without discernment, but I just want to broaden things a bit.

    (12)
  7. When I think of the church, I don't see a building. I see all the ones that Jesus has saved. To me, Jesus is the church home.
    For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. ESV. 20
    "Tear down this temple, and I'll rebuild it in three days."
    Any place can be where the church meets.
    Having a specific building where the church can meet is good, whether that place is large or small. It is a blessing to be safe from the elements while they are gathered with Jesus as the center.
    Philippians 4:19, KJV: "But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."
    The important thing is to devote the tithes and offerings to your Father and Jesus will guide you for it's uses. At least that's what I do with all my income.

    (3)
  8. I appreciate how our church (that is, the people) relate to our community. We serve a high-quality lunch on Tuesdays to anyone who wants it and have served over a hundred on occasion. Our building is used by a First Nations Christian fellowship on Thursdays and Sundays. During the week, counseling services are provided for people, who appreciate the non-institutional atmosphere. Because of our involvement in the community, we were asked if our building could be used for court purposes for First Nations, again because of its commodious atmosphere. We seek ways to serve and bless our community with what the Lord has placed in our hands.

    Christ’s method alone will give true success in reaching the people. The Savior mingled with people as one who desired their good. He showed sympathy for them, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence. Then He invited them, “Follow Me.”

    We need to come close to the people by personal effort. If we would give less time to sermonizing and more time to personal ministry, greater results would be seen. The poor are to be relieved, the sick cared for, the sorrowing and the bereaved comforted, the ignorant instructed, the inexperienced counseled. We are to weep with those who weep and to rejoice with those who rejoice. Accompanied by the power of persuasion, the power of prayer, the power of the love of God, this work will not, cannot, be without fruit.

    MHH p.73.

    A church built of “living stones,” a “spiritual house,” ministering “spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus” for our community is the kind of “spiritual legacy” that “lays up treasure in heaven.” (1 Peter 2:4-5.)

    (2)
  9. Well, in the 50 plus or minus years of my SDA journey, I have seen SDA houses of worship that seem to have been constructed with the idea of God's House with having only looks of "Spectacularness," with high steeples etc. and etc. but without the thought of keeping the cost of the maintenance of the structure within reasonable expenditures for it and finding the members at a loss for financial means to do the maintenance on it. I applaud the Jehovah's Witnesses for their low cost maintenance worship structures buildings. We need to learn from them on this aspect of their religion.

    (1)

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