Wednesday: The Seven Heads of the Beast
Read Revelation 17:9-11 along with Revelation 13:18. The requirement for understanding the seven heads is a mind of wisdom. What kind of wisdom is in view here? How does one obtain this divinely imparted wisdom (James 1:5)?
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The angel explains that the seven heads are seven mountains. Some translators think that these mountains allude to the seven hills upon which the city of Rome is situated, and for this reason, they translate the Greek word oroi (“mountains”) as “hills”. There are seven kings, too, who are symbolized by the seven mountains. Also, these mountains are successive, not simultaneous.
These mountains do not symbolize individual kings, because Revelation does not deal with individual persons but with systems. In the Bible, mountains often symbolize world powers or empires (Jer. 51:25; Ezek. 35:2-3). In biblical prophecy “kings” represent kingdoms (see Dan. 2:37-39, Dan. 7:17). Thus, the seven mountains symbolize seven great successive empires that dominated the world throughout history, through which Satan opposed God and harmed God’s people.
From John’s time perspective, five of these empires have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. While no single view has been agreed upon by all Adventist interpreters, many hold that the five that have fallen are the great kingdoms that in Old Testament times dominated and (on occasion) harmed God’s people: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, and Greece. The “one is” kingdom was the Roman Empire of John’s time.
The seventh kingdom that “has not yet come” is the sea beast of Revelation chapter 13 – the papacy, which dominated and harmed God’s people – that was to come after the time of John and after the fall of the pagan Roman Empire. History has powerfully attested to the truth of this prophecy, written many centuries before the events unfolded.
John is further told that the scarlet beast is an eighth world power, although it is one of the seven heads (world powers). Which of the seven? Because the heads are sequential in time, the eighth must be the seventh head that received the deadly wound. It is at the time of this eighth world power that the scarlet beast appears, carrying and advancing the goals of the harlot Babylon. Today, we live at the time of the healing of the deadly wound. The eighth world power will appear on the scene right before the end and will go to perdition.
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I doubt whether many of the readers of this blog will admit to having read George Orwell’s “Animal Farm”, and I know I am taking a risk and making myself vulnerable in revealing that I have read it. I not only read it but studied it as part of my high school English course.
For those of you who do not know the story, here is a brief summary. The animals on the farm were oppressed by a self-serving and ruthless farmer who expected them to work from dawn to dusk with a minimum of food and rest. The animals revolted and kicked the farmer and his family off the farm and decided to run the farm themselves as a cooperative effort. For a while, everything worked well but it became clear before too long that some of the animals (the pigs) had to do the thinking and organizing, while the others (most notably the sheep and horses) had to do the hard labor. The short story is that the new leadership became as oppressive and as brutal as the old regime. The story finishes with the working-class animals looking in on a party held by leadership animals and seeing the features of the organizing animals morphing into the features of the original oppressive farmers.
The history revealed in Rev 17, tells much the same story as “Animal Farm” repeated seven (or eight) times. Oppressive and controlling kingdoms follow one after another, restricting freedom, oppressing the poor and persecuting those who do not show allegiance. The worry is that the same accusations were leveled at the Jewish nation, particularly by the minor prophets, and was cited as a reason for them going into captivity. If you want some tough reading, try reading a minor prophet of two before going to bed!
It is very easy for us to point the finger and show that this or that organization is represented by the harlot and her seductive ways, but there is a very real danger of the same description and accusation applying to us.
I haven't read Orwell's tome, or at least I can't recall having done so, but did own a copy of Pink Floyd's Animals album loosely based upon the book with a similar theme. I appreciate your insight to the nature of nations and the new orders that come and go with time. We can think Czars of Russia brutally replaced by the Soviets who themselves were overbearing and harsh. It appears that it is the nature of worldly kingdoms to do so.
Literature can be very much siezed. I love my literature high school teacher! We still talk to each other after 30 years! We are free to discuss and communicate ideas. This way we exchange different insights over such a theolotical/prophetic part of the Bible. As we mature and understand God's message for people, we also realize that He is interested in revealing some future for those who are willing to be prepared - eventhough the present time is the only thing that we have! Revelation close the Word with a "golden key". By checking its content to history and today's reality we may get the assurance that there is a Force to control not only our planet, but the whole Universe! May we not despair, on the contrary, gain hope in the High Priest that advocate in our cause! May we be strong enough in Jesus eternal Grace!
I also ask you all to pray with me for at least 3 families around ours that are currently strugling with disease and death!
Have a great day!
(Thanks Maurice and Kevin, this way I feel as in Sabbath School Class!).
I'm sorry... Why would anyone here be reluctant to admit to reading "Animal Farm"? Why do you consider it a risk to say that you have read it? It's widely considered one of the greatest novels of all time, and a fantastic illustration of how even the well intentioned can fall into sin and corruption and ultimately become a tool of evil.
God Himself speaks to such things when he warns Israel about the danger of having a king lead them, rather than His chosen Judges.
Maurice,
I too growing up in an island nation that was part of the British Commonwealth was required to read Animal Farm as part of my high school curriculum. I read it several times actually, and I was struck not only by its on point satire of communism (particularly arising from the Russian revolution) but the warning it posed for oppression by the powerful few over the masses which is also a danger of capitalism in its truest form. Of course, history is also replete with too many chapters of religious oppression by an array of institutions and groups, and shows how intoxicating power and control can make any of us regardless of how pius and well meaning we think we are.
Thank you to those of you who have responded on "Animal Farm" reference. My hesitation on using it, as an illustration, was due to my being I was attacked for using a similar reference in the past. I have been involved in SSNET for a very long time, so it was probably well before the current readership. I am glad we can share in a spirit of understanding.
Maurice, Thank you for using Animal Farm as an illustration. It is consistent with the Biblical view of the nature of man. It is also very illustrative of the old adage, “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”. I thank God for Him guiding the Framers of the US Constitution to form a document that puts limits on the nature of man. It is now under attack in the US. When it is finally undermined and it will be, a very powerful beast will rise and initiate the beginning of the end.
I am so excited to share an opinion as I've never been involved in something like this blog. So here goes:
Concerning the 7 heads of Revelation 17 & the 7 kings.
Rev.12 gives us our basic clue;
*[[Rev 12:4]] KJV* And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
This verse shows us the dragon standing before the pregnant woman, for one purpose and that is to devour Christ as soon as He is born.
Verse 3 tells us that the dragon already had 7 heads, so bow we need to know which head was used by the dragon to destroy the baby Jesus and that was Rome.
Remember in Rev.17:1 it is one of the seven last plague Angel's that takes John into the wilderness. Now from his wilderness perspective, not his day and age perspective we will be able to understand more clearly the five are fallen statement.
Continuing, we are told the 7 heads are 7 mountains are 7 heads. Notice this verse;
*[[Jer 51:25]] KJV* Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.
The previous verse mentions Babylon, so Babylon is a mountain.
Babylon=1 head
Medo-persia=1 head
Greece=4 heads do not overlook this point. Read Daniel 7.
Rome=1 head
Total=7 heads
Rome was the head used by the dragon at the time of christ to kill the children at Bethlehem.
We as S.D.As give head status to the Papacy, right?
How do we as a people do this?
*[[Rev 13:3]] KJV* And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
We say this is the Papacy, but how do we give this entity head status?
Because it was given by Rome the power in place at the time.
*[[Rev 13:2]] KJV* And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rome gave the papacy it's power seat and great authority, this gives it head status. The papacy shares 7th head status with pagan Rome because the Papacy never conquered Pagan Rome like the other empires conquered each other. Papal Rome and pagan Rome are the legs of iron both sharing iron status.
Now the 7 kings:
5 are fallen from John's wilderness perspective. Let's see how this works out.
*[[Dan 7:17]] KJV* These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Brother Daniel helps us out again by telling us that these 4 kingdoms are 4 kings but I need 7 so let's ask for wisdom.
Babylon = 1 king
Medo-persia=1 king
Greece=1 king, were dealing now with single kings not the heads exactly.
Rome=1king
4 kings in all.
Now to get king status, you would have needed to take over a king. Remember I need 7.
Each king tool over a king by conquest but remember, the dragon has power to give head status to who ever it wants like in the case of Rome giving head status to the papacy. So king Rome gives king status to the papacy which makes the papacy the 5th king. This is exciting.
5 are fallen one is according to John's wilderness perspective not his day and age perspective. Now who would be that mysterious 6th king?
France because he took out a king!!!
France gave to the world aithiestic communism and licentiousness or you could say sodom. This is the wonderful contribution the 6th king France gave the world.
Now we can identify the 7th
Read rev.13 and you'll get it.
Mike
Mike i love your enthusiasm and the effort you making as you tried to explain the seven heads of the beast.
However, we must remember that the angel was explaining the vision to John. Not to us. "and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while."
(Revelation 17:10 NASB). So the five that have fallen would have fallen before John's time. The one 'is' would have to be from the time of John. The "other that has not yet come", is future from John's perspective.
With that said, here is what it would look like: starting at the one "is", we would have ROME, then counting in reverse order to ascertain the five that have fallen,it would look like this:
ROME (John's time)
GREECE
MEDIA AND PERSIA
BABYLON
ASSYRIA
EGYPT
(Remember they are in reverse order, going back, because they have fallen they passed)
The other has not yet come is the 7th head which is the PAPACY, still ROME. And when he comes, he must remain a little while. We know that after pagan Rome's demise the papacy rose to prominence and ruled and persecuted the saints for 1260-day during the dark ( 538-1798 A.D.) 1260-day
1260 yrs signifies the short time that he must remain. The rule of the PAPACY was brought to an end by the French Revolution, inflicting the power with a deadly wound. Which will be revived and will be the eighth head but is the seventh that received the mortal wound but came back to life.
Some have said why EGYPT and ASSYRIA?
If we recall it's the Israelite people represented by the woman of REVELATION 12 that bought forth the Messiah.
In Gen 15:13-15 God prophesied to Abram that his seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them. PHAROAH persecuted AND harmed them, for some 400 yrs did not want to let God's people go and had the audacity to ask, who is God!
The king ASSYRIA (2Kings17:5-6;23) carried Israel away out of their own land and scattered the 10 tribes from the North. But praise God he preserved a remnant the tribe of Judah and Benjamin who were referred to as the Jews in the time of Christ
Another point is this. In Daniel's prophecy the last earthy kingdom was ROME and after that God's kingdom. If we believe that ROME is the last kingdom, no matter what happens in future we know what the Bible says.
We have the sure word of prophecy!
Hello Maxine,
I'm so thrilled that you have replied to my post.
Of course, I will have to disagree with your analysis of the 7 kings. Not to be disagreeable though, I'd rather agree, but what you are saying is not the truth on the matter.
Rev 1:1 KJV The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
The angel may have been talking to John. But it is for us.
[email details redacted. SSNET has a policy of not publishing email addresses due to the potential for misuse.]
Revelation 17:1 tells us that the 7 last plague angel comes to John. This is important to notice, because John's visions have already brought him down this far, now this angel is going to take john Back to a previous place in his visions, and that is the wilderness.
Rev 17:3 KJV So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
In reading these verses, we notice several things, first the wilderness. There are only 3 places in Revelation where wilderness is mentioned, and this is the 3rd. The other 2 are found in Revelation 12:
Rev 12:6 KJV And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:14 KJV And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Both verses show us the pure woman there for the 1260 time-frame. So we know, by these 2 verses where the wilderness is, 1260.
John's trip back to the wilderness also shows him a woman sitting on a acarlet beast with 7 heads and 10 horns.
The reason I show this is to show at this point in John's vision,he's not in Rome. His vision has taken him down to the 7 last plagues, and the 7 last plague angel needs to carry him back to past part of his vision which is the wilderness. He's not taken back to Rome, he's taken to the 1260 time-frame.
Now that we know this, we're ready to show the 7 kings.
5 are fallen, (John's back now in Rev 17.) One is.
The only way to become a king is to take the crown off his head and the scepter from the one who has it, or it can be given.
If the vision pertained mainly to the time of John in Rome, we'd have a problem, because Rome didn't fall.
Rome handed over it's power, seat and great authority to papal Rome in 538.
Its only when in 1798, the deadly wound was inflicted that, that the papacy fell.
Also, you cannot start with Assyria and Egypt. Daniel 7 does not allow for that.
Daniel 7 starts with Babylon.
Dan 7:17 KJV These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Notice it says Babylon, Medo-persia, Greece, Rome are 4 kings. The papacy hasn't come on the scene yet.
Like I said, to be king you would need to take it by force. But not in the case of papal rome, the crown was given by pagan Rome, thus the papacy becomes the 5th king. Only a king can make another a king.
The 5th king (papal Rome) gets taken out by France in 1798, which makes France the one that is, the 6th king.
I hope I've made things clearer.
Mike
Here are a few more things to consider when looking into the subject of heads, and kings.
7 heads are mentioned first in:
Rev 12:3 KJV And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Since this is the first mention, we'll look at the context;
The context is the dragon standing before the woman who is ready to deliver the man child Jesus. The heads are already on the head of the dragon,at that time.
Rome was the head that was in place at the time and it was Roman soldiers who were sent to devour the child.
Now let's work backwards.
Rome=7th., but = 1 head
Greece has 4 heads.
Medo-persia=1 head.
Babylon= 1 head
Total, is 7 heads.
The problem is, Bible students overlook Greece that has 4 heads. We have to go with what we are shown.
Dan 7:6 KJV After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
The prophecy in Daniel starts with Babylon, and we are not allowed to go beyond that.
Also, the head of the dragon in Rev 12:3, does not talk about 7 kings, this is a subject that comes up in the 17th of Revelation. This is important because it wasn't time for us to understand 7 kings there, our focus was to be on the woman and the dragon.
When we get to Revelation 17, and the subject of the 7 kings come to view, now God shows us something new.if the study of 7 heads could explain 7 kings fully we wouldnt have needed the subject of 7 kings.
Now that 7 heads are explained using chapter 12, we know (I know)who these heads are, so when I get to 7 kings in chapter 17, and these 7 kings have shown up nowhere else, I will now take this subject by itself.
Rev 17:10 KJV And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
So now what I will do, is look for any connection to the 7 heads since there seems to be a link there, and I know the 7 heads are the beasts of Daniel 7, I will look there for clues.
Dan 7:17 KJV These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
This text gets me excited because there is a connection to the heads, but I have a problem because there are 4 kings and I need 7. But at least I know the beasts of Daniel are 4 kings, that's firm.
As I studied this out, I realized that Greece is 4 heads but counts as only 1 king, this why we need to look at heads in a study and kings in a study.
There are 7 heads in Daniel 7, because of Greece 4 heads. Dut when looking at in light of kings they are 4 kings.
Now I move foward;
In John's day, he was living under the rule of the 4th king, as time progressed, and the papal power comes to view, pagan Rome that is 4th king and 7th head gives head status to papal Rome which means they share 7th head status. Pagan Rome, Papal Rome. The iron legs. Pagan Rome In giving head status to Papal Rome, gives king status to the Papacy by this act. Papal Rome becomes the 5th king.
Revelation 17, is now dealing with the timeframe of deadly wound, inflicted by the 6th king which is France.
We are without a doubt living in the time of the 6th king France.
Read Revelation 11, and you will see what France now as king gives the world, and that is: Sodom & Egypt, spiritually called.
Thanks for listening,
Mike
The Medes and Persian would have to be counted as 2 Kingdoms, they actually were and ruled at different times
I appreciate the author's remarks about the kingdoms as they relate to God's people. We know that there have been many empires in the world, some rivaling the Roman empire: Mongolian empire for one example. Some speculate why we make the designations of the empires that we do in light of all the other empires that have come and gone. The answers is in what the author states:
"...the seven mountains symbolize seven great successive empires that dominated the world throughout history, through which Satan opposed God and harmed God’s people."
The empires focused on are those that affect God's people in the past, that affect them during the time of John, and will continue to affect them into the future. The eight will be the one that has characteristics of all empires previous and it will have a global affect beyond what the others ever had.
Or not. If we follow the Biblical order of the line of prophecy we find that each successive kingdom was built upon the ruins of its predecessor, not literally, but practically. The Medes built upon conquered Babylon; the Greeks built upon conquered Persia; the Romans built upon conquered Greece, and so on. The empire of of Rome is actually physically built upon the seven hills (palatine, capitaline, aventine, caeline, esquiline, quirinal, and viminal), the seven hills (mountains) a clear reference to Rome.
Where, in Scripture, do we have any indication (authority) to use anything than what has been clearly given in Daniel?--beginning with Babylon and not Egypt or Assyria? After all, if we're to speculate on who persecuted the people of God, why not pick one of the many "ites" ... hittites, amorites, moabites ... They were all rather pesky, but do not enter the picture.
The issue is resolved by asking from what stand point is John seeing these heads from, historically speaking? Some would put John in the future and thus come up with other entities. But if we put John in his day as his perspective starting point, then we work backwards from the "now is" head (Rome). And we have to find major powers that have not just been pesky, but actual overlords in a wide ranging regional sense. Hence, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medio Persia, and Macedonia-Greece as those that have already been.
Actually, no. We don't put John in the future, the prophecy does that for us. When John says "five are fallen," beginning with Babylon takes us through the 1260 years period of papal supremacy to 1798 during which time the succeeding, sixth power ("a new manifestation of satanic power" GC 268) would be systematic atheism and all of its associated heresies (such as the antigenesis theories of the higher critics, Marxism, the theory of evolution, and etc); the seventh would then be apostate Protestantism (and two of the three "unclean spirits" of Rev. 16:13 would be accounted for—the dragon, and the false prophet) which would then empower the reorganized, unholy union of church and state—a revived papacy, "the eighth," in all its persecuting glory—"the beast."
Leslie, I appreciate your commitment to John in the future, but the reality is the chapter doesn't explicitly put John anywhere. The point of view you ascribe to is actually rather recent: William Shea, Hans LaRondelle, and Mervin Maxwell to name three, are some of those that do this. The difference on perspective is how you take the "one is" head.
If one says the "one is" is in the future of John's day then it is argued that the successions are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Imperial Rome and then religious Rome (this is more due with the view of restriction of the heads having to start with Babylon (which, again, there isn't anything in the passage that requires even that). The sixth becomes the French revolution and the seventh the beast with lamb-like horns, though there are variations in this for the last couple of heads. The eight then is seen as the revived religious Rome being the beast of 17.
Others who take the reading as from John's perspective come up with what the author has suggested. So it depends on where one places the "one is" head that is the point of difference (or which scholar one thinks has made the better case). One could argue merit for either perspective.
Hello,
I do agree about the new manifestation, but I think you'll be interested in this observation,
*[[Rev 17:1]] KJV* And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
John is being taken down through time all the way to the 7 last plagues, then it is one of the 7 last plague Angel's that come to him and takes him back to the wilderness where he saw the woman (Gods church) and the sea beast. I.e. he goes back to just before deadly wound.
Wilderness is key and 7 last plague angel is key.
Thanks, Mike for a good observation, but I think we need some tweaking of it. John has already been taken down time with the plagues, that is true, but by placing the woman in the wilderness actually takes him back to recall the woman in a faithful character and now being manifest in a bad character. It is showing John that the woman has changed or will be changed in the future and play a part in the evil spread in the final days.
The angel then says why be shocked, I will show you now even more about this. From the woman in the wilderness sitting on waters we now see a placement of the woman atop a red seven headed beast. The water and the beast are the same: institution of a human making. That venture into the wilderness for shelter helped only in a temporary way. Now the woman rides the beast! This is to point out the two fold nature of what went wrong with the woman: she joined with the beast and the beast is controlled by her and supporting her. It is a mutual synergy found together that brings about final day evils leading to the end.
John is given insight to the beast and many want to find the heads to start with Babylon (because of he sea beast interpretation of the red beast), so John is put into the future seeing it. But in reality John is being told in his present situation as he writes about a past and the future to come, as he is being told about the woman in the past and the future to come. Thus, John could very well be in the present of his time when the seven heads are spoken of. So we see, again, where the controversy lay in the interpretations of this chapter.
Noticing Rev 12's dragon, he already has 7 heads and stands before the woman to devour christ as soon as He is born. This gives context; i.e. if these mysterious heads are already in existence in John's day, all we need to do is identify the power the devil was using to kill jesus...Rome comes to view which would be the 7th head. Let's count:
Babylon=1head
Medo-persia= 1heads
Greece=4 heads
And Rome=1 head
Total=7heads
We as a people say the papacy is a head by saying the head which was wounded to death is the papacy. I want everyone to know, I agree with that, however, we must show how we can Biblically prove this. I.e. we shouldn't just say it let's prove it.
I saw one of its heads as it were wounded to death.which head is it?
It's the 7th head. Why... because the dragon power at the time of christ was Rome and has the power.when the papacy comes on the scene, the pagan Roman head power, gives it power seat and great authority to the papacy. This makes the papacy sharer of the 7th head, just like the metal man has 2 legs of iron, papal and pagan Rome. This is how we show how papal Rome gets head status. It's not a new head at this point because pagan Rome wasn't conquered by papal rome.
Now we need to make sense of the 7 kings and this is where most get tripped up.
There are 7 kings, 5 are fallen and 1 is. This is where John is taken to in vision. Daniel starts us off in showing us who these kings are by saying:
*[[Dan 7:17]] KJV* These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
Babylon=1king
Medo-persia=2king
Greece=3 king and
Rome =4th king
Remember, 5 are fallen but we have to start with Babylon not Egypt or any other power.
John says 5 are fallen. This puts John in a certain time in vision. Let's count now;
Babylon fallen, medo-Persia fallen,Greece fallen rome pagan/rome papal fallen. Papal Rome =5th king. We need to give king status to the papacy just like head status was given. Take a look:
King Babylon falls to king medo-Persia, which falls to king Greece, which falls to king Rome. The only way king status is given is by taking out a king, or it can be given, this is why papal Rome gets to be king.
In 1798 France comes on the scene by taking out a king this makes France a king, the 6th king in fact. Now to get to the 7th we need a power to take king France out. King France brings to the world sodom and Egypt. Aithiestic communism and licentiousness. These two things come to us because of France. LGBTQ,abortion, pornography...you name it, France gets the credit.
Now I am looking for a power to take France out, aithiesm and licentiousness. How will this happen?
When the 7th challenger takes out France he becomes king. The earth beast has power to bring fire down from heaven, and he deceives everyone by these miracles.
When these undeniable wonders occure,there will be no more atheists. The licensous part gets taken out through calamities. They will say, God is angry we need to change some laws, no more abortion, no more same sex marriage, no more pornography etc. And when these do not seem to appease an offended God, here comes the mark of the beast..sunday.
King #7 just took out king france.
You asked the question Where, in Scripture, do we have any indication (authority) to use anything than what has been clearly given in Daniel?
We are to bear in mind the book of Daniel is only one of 66 books! As students of the Bible we have the authority to study all the other books that help to weave a complete tapestry. All the interpretation and explanation of any subject is never found or self contained in one book, but are found in other parts of the scripture. It's a complete story-all wrapped up in the entire scriptures.
The key to this whole 7 heads issue is found right there in the book of REVELATION. If we understand that the angel was explaining the vision to the apostle John then the question is what was the empire/king that was ruling in the time of John? Then the answers should be Pagan Rome, remember?
It seems correct in keeping true to the scripture to start from Rome going back, not just the the time of the four kingdoms of Daniel because God's people did not just come to be in the Book in Daniel! By was covenanted by God with Abraham. As a rule if thumb we must always go back to the beginning. This was also a practice of Jesus, I. The beginning it was...Even the apostle Paul would always go back "in the beginning... that is where God's choose Isreal and made then His people. They did not become same in the book of Daniel they had a beginning before Daniel's time and so they would have been ruled by kings in the past. God gave Daniel those four kingdoms from his Daniel's time to the End. It was never intended to give him a history lesson because God speaks to the prophet from his time to the near future or the future end. So we should bear that in mind.
It has to affect the prophecy relating to God's people from half-time to the End.
I am also amazed as John and the inhabitants of the earth are amazed, particularly when I understand that both the prostitute and the scarlet beast are in fact combinations of entities.
However I shouldn't be amazed people getting together against God's people has always happened see:
Psa 83:2-5 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. 3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. 5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
Herewith an extract from an article by Jon Paulien at Armageddon Headquarters with a few interspersed additions by me.
Three Worldwide Confederacies
Rev 16:12-14 shows us there will be three worldwide confederacies at the end of time. There will be:
(1) a confederacy of the saints – kings from the east – those who believe the 3 angels message,
(2) a confederacy of the institutions of all world religions - dragon, beast, false prophet,– those who believe the 3 frogs message, and
(3) a confederacy of civil, secular, political, economic and military power – kings and people of the world – those who worship self interest
All three of these confederacies are shocking, in light of history as we know it. The idea that individual Protestants, Catholics, Jews and Muslims might all join together and somehow put aside their differences and pursue a common cause seems ludicrous. The idea of a worldwide political unity seems equally strange in the face of the New World Disorder we are experiencing. Can you imagine Iran, the United States, North Korea, Pakistan, India and Cuba all transcending their differences at the same time?
The three worldwide confederacies will be a clear indication that we have entered into the final events of earth’s history. They will be so out of character with previous history that they cannot be mistaken when they arrive.
The war on terror, however, offers a glimpse of the future. For the first time in world history there is essential agreement among the nations of the world that terrorism threatens them all. Nations may differ on the definition of terrorism. One man’s freedom fighter is the next man’s terrorist. But all agree that terrorism threatens order and prosperity. And all religious institutions generally agree that they have more in common with each other than they do with the radicals in their own tradition. Just take the response to the recent attack on mosques in New Zealand.
So the war on terror has brought us to a new phase of things. For the first time in human history the religious and political institutions of the entire world are generally united against a small, scattered, but international group of people united by a spiritual purpose. Don’t get me wrong. I am absolutely not suggesting that al Qaeda is the remnant of Revelation. But the war on terror is like a dress rehearsal for Revelation’s scenario of the end. It wakes us up with the realization of how close we could be. September 11 shows us how quickly the political and religious landscape in the world can change. One day, no one knows how soon, the spotlights of the world will move from al Qaeda and other issues to the remnant. And when that time comes, the end is at hand.
http://www.thebattleofarmageddon.com/paulien_revelation_commentary.html
From my basic understanding of symbols in prophecy, beasts coming up from the sea represent world empires e.g. Babylon, Medo-Persia , Greece and Rome. Dan 7:1-3. Now Stafanovic and the sabbath school committee want us to believe that heads also mean world empires. From my understanding of the Bible symbols, heads mean spiritual empires and churches. King Neb was the spiritual head of the Babylonian empire Dan 2:37.38. The Pope is the spiritual head of the Roman Catholic church Rev 13:3. Christ is the head of the true church on earth Efes 5:23. If we say that beasts and heads are empires, then that would lead to a lot of confusion in interpreting the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation.
I don't think that that the lesson authors are compelling us to believe their suggestion that Assyria and Egypt are part of the prophetic lineup. They are just making a suggestion to think about.
For the record, both Egypt and Assyria have a long history of dominating the two kingdoms of Judah and Israel The Books of Kings and Chronicles document this fairly clearly and it was during this time that the northern Kindom of Israel largely disappeared. Like all kingdoms of those times, the king was regarded as a deity, demanding not only allegiance but worship. The Babylonian period of dominance over the kingdom of Judah was relatively short; less than 100 years, compared with several hundred years for both Egypt and Assyria.
Given that the Bible does not give a clear indication as to exactly which empires/kingdoms/spiritual-empires are included in the succession, it is at least worth considering the idea that Egypt and Assyria were being alluded to. In my own study, I took the time to read quickly through the appropriate chapters of Kings and Chronicles and would not be at all surprised to find that John's early readership would think of these two kingdoms as persecuting religious powers.
Hello Tony:
Heads and beasts can be seen as kingdoms. Note the lessons texts on this. Babylon being the head of the image in Daniel 2, but also the four heads of the third beast being kings as well (the divisions of the break up of Alexander's Macedonian-Greek kingdom under four rival generals of Alexander's armies). Even horns are considered kings and kings have kingdoms. It's using the symbols in their context that is important.
The head of Babylon: Nebuchadnezzar can be both seen as a spiritual and political head as in the case of the papacy in Rev 13:3. As for the four heads of the Macedonian empire which represent the four generals of Alexander, these also had an Hellenistic spiritual influence upon the world. My argument is that the heads do not represent Egypt, Medo-Persia etc. Because there is no Bible text to support that speculation. It is interesting to note that looking on Wikpedia the seven largest christian denominations in the world are 1.Church of the East .6 mil. 2.Non-trinity church 48 mil. 3. Anglican church 85 mil. 4.Oriental orthodoxy 86 mil 5.Eastern Orthodox 300 mil 6.Protestantism 800 mil 7. Roman Catholicism 1.2 Billion. If you use these churches for the seven heads in Rev 17:9-11 they fit perfectly with the addition of Satan being the eighth and is of the seventh.
I can appreciate where you are coming from, Tony. But consider this. History supports the notion. Since Revelation is developed upon Daniel and the rest of the Old Testament Scriptures, the notion of those kingdoms being represented by the heads isn't mere speculation. It is well grounded, in fact. It would be readily familiar and understood by the original audience of John.
Secondly, the heads are not religious powers, they are political as is the beast itself. In this setting the religious power is symbolized as the woman, and the political as the beast. So the religious groups you suggest won't fit the prophecy as it is given. Context rules that out. But context here and as a whole in the Book of Revelation being built largely out of OT stories, teachings and symbolism, provide more support for the notion of the kingdoms suggested.
I know it's been awhile since this post was made, but I thought I'd share just in case anyone is listening 🙂
Dan 7:23 KJV Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Since the 4th beast is the fourth kingdom, it stands to reason the first 3 are also kingdoms since there cannot be a 4th without a 3rd or 2nd.
In fact the rest of the verse says:
which shall be diverse from all kingdoms...
Kingdoms/heads is the context, not religious heads.
The 7 stages of the beast are marked with each head, and it is worthwhile to note that the heads do not rule SIMULTANEOUSLY but rather CONSECUTIVELY.
The heads are also WOUNDED one by one, and die for the next one to rule, except for the only one whose deadly wound is healed.
Only ONE MOUTH (of the active head) spews water at any one go. (Rev 12:15; 13:3,5,6). Another way of saying only one controls the nations, peoples, toungues.. only one has dominance at a go.
Archeologically, a cylinder from Tell Amar in Mesopotamia depicts a 7-headed dragon engaged in a conflict. So this concept was pretty common in ancient times.
3 of the last 4 heads are ROMAN... Daniel 7:23,24 gives us a clear distinction of the dragon ruling by itself, the dragon ruling with 10 horns and the dragon with the little horn. On the same breadth, Rev 12 portrays the DRAGON in heaven, as a symbol of Pagan Rome; Rev 13 uses the COMPOSITE beast from the sea to represent Papal Rome during the 1260 years; Rev 17 employs yet a THIRD beast from the abyss to represent Papacy when its deadly wound is healed. Since these beasts ARISE from three different places, the different heads represent those same stages.
The SIXTH head, lest we forget, (the United States under Protestantism) is symbolized by a SEPARATE BEAST and is related to Rome because like speaks like a dragon and the dragon represents Satan working through Rome.
Anyone knows why SDA pioneer perspective (Smith and Haskel) on seven heads/kings has been reinturpreted and replaced with eithers starting with Egypt or Babylon? Uriah Smith makes the strongest case in my opinion so far. The biggest misunderstanding is in who the actual beast the woman riding is. Acording to Rev.12 the dragon who standas before the woman is pagan Rome. Rev. 12:9 tells us that Satan in the dragon but in the chief agent thrue which Satan tried to kill baby Jesus was that of Rome. Also in ch. 13 we see the transition from pagan to papal Rome where it says that “the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.” Rev. 13:2.
We see in the book of Daniel that prophetic visions begin with the kingdom then in power. During the dream of the statue in ch. 2, Daniel was living in Babylon. Hence the interpretation starts with the head of gold (Dan. 2:38). In the vision of the four beasts in Daniel 7, the introduction of the chapter informs us of time when Daniel had the vision:
Daniel 7:1 (KJV) In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, [and] told the sum of the matters.
Since the time was that of Babylon still, the vision begins with a lion with wings which like ch. 2 represents Babylon. In Daniel 8, the prophetic vision begins with the ram which the angel explains represents Medo-Persia:
Daniel 8:20 (KJV) The ram which thou sawest having [two] horns [are] the kings of Media and Persia.
The chapter begins by letting us know that the time was when Babylon was about to be replaced by Medo-Persia (Third year of Belshazzar) hence Babylon is dropped out of the vision.
Daniel ch. 9 informs us that the time is that of “the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus” hence the explanation of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 begins with the decree of Artaxerxes in 457 b. c. who was the king of Persia.
Finally in ch. 11-12 we see the last vision which was given in the time of Darius the Mede. Hence the vision begins with the Medo-Persian empire. Babylon is mot mention anymore since ch. 7 because it passed away.
What does all this have to do with Rev. 17? It appears to be the case that prophetic visions begin with time in which the prophet was living and do not go backwards in time unless there is clear interlude like in Rev. 12 where there is mention of the beginning of the great controversy in heaven between the dragon and Michael heaven or Satan and Christ. Unless it is clearly indicated we should be looking for interpretation of symbols which have to do with the kingdom(s) during which the prophet who was given the vision begins.
Whit this in mind I recommend reading Uriah Smith’s article entitled: The Seven Heads of Revelation 12, 13, and 17
https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/1411.2#0
In looking at Revelation 12,the symbols are our road map. We look briefly at the war in heaven, it can be seen, but in my view based on Revelation, the main focus is not on the war that originated there.
There was no woman in heaven represented as having the moon under her feet or a crown on her head. These symbols originated after sin, after Lucifer was cast out. In heaven, there was no dragon with 7 heads. These are descriptions Lucifer earned after his banishment from heaven.
In my view, we are being shown the war for Satan to to keep his right to heaven based on his conquering of Adam. Adam was "son of God" in the book of Job we see in chapters 1&2 the sons of God meeting together and Satan coming as well. God asks Satan where are you coming from and Satan says earth. The point is, Satan had already been kicked out, but because of his conquering Adam, he took Adam's place as representative of earth and was allowed to attend the sons of God meetings in heaven. This description is an oversimplification, but in it can be seen now the real focus of Revelation 12.
With this backdrop, Revelation 12:1-5 7-10 makes perfect sense. Once the second Adam, (Jesus)
1Co 15:45 KJV And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Conquered Satan, he was cast out of heaven. Like I said, when there was the first war in heaven, there was no dragon with 7 heads, it was Lucifer and his angels, the term dragon with 7 heads are what he earned after Adam was conquered.
Once Jesus conquered Satan (spiritual war) Michael kicked Satan out of heaven permanently. Take a look:
The voice of God is heard proclaiming that justice is satisfied. Satan is vanquished.DA 834
To keep it short I just put this part of the quote, but you can read that part of Desire of Ages and get the context.
Now that Satan has been conquered by Jesus (Michael)
Satan, the dragon with 7 heads, is cast out of heaven permanently and all heaven rejoice:
Rev 12:10 KJV And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Now that Satan is cast out, he sets his sights on the woman like never before. The woman has to flee...
The point of all this, is to show that the dragon standing before the woman to devour her child (Jesus) as soon as he is born, is to show that Rome is the head in play at the time because it was Roman soldiers that were sent to devour Christ at Bethlehem.
The 7 heads on the dragon are all accounted for at the time of Christ's arrival on planet earth. Rome is the 7th head!
You may note in Uriah Smith's tract, "The Seven Heads of Revelation 12, 13 and 17", that he works very hard to anchor John's vision to the writing of his vision in AD85. While Smith had the view that the seven heads were seven forms of government within the Pagan Roman Empire, you may note that he references other writers who believed the seven heads to be seven empires of the world. Ellen White was one such with this view, and you can see Smith writing in the tract trying to refute Ellen White's view from the Great Controversy that the Seven Headed Beasts in Rev 13 and 17 could be any other than Pagan Rome, even though White wrote otherwise in GC88. Thus, Smith believed that the "five have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come" are those listed in this tract - the seven governmental powers of Pagan Rome.
But, a few people picked up on what Ellen White said, and began thinking of the Seven Heads as Ellen White's "Great Empires of the World", but they used the same anchor that Smith used, placing the "one that is", in Revelation 17, as Pagan Rome. Counting back five Empires from there you arrive at Egypt.
You may see my personal view in a post that I wrote further below regarding the validity of the time anchor you mentioned above. It cannot be correct to use the time of the prophecy as a reference point in the interpretation. You must use the prophet's perspective in relation to the events of history to determine his location in time.
You may note that in Smith's tract he scoffs at the idea that the five that are fallen in Rev 17 could be "Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome, and Papal Rome". Where did he hear this proposed sequence as the "five" that "are fallen"? You can get a sense for the answer to that question if you will begin to read Ellen White's letters to him beginning in 1896 right after the writing of the (Seven Heads of Revelation 12, 13, & 17) tract. In those letters she is telling him that he is refuting her views publicly and making it harder for her to fulfill her prophetic mission. It is clear to me that Smith had been given the truth regarding the identity of the Seven Heads, and yet he preferred his own views over those of the prophet.
And, that, my friend, is why the SDA Church still today does not understand the meaning of Revelation 17. What's more, the church also has a twisted view of Daniel 2, all due to Smith not receiving the prophetic light from Ellen White that he was given. He nearly lost his spiritual experience over this issue.
I see the timeframe given to us in Rev 17 as simply a point on earth's timeline. John is trying to describe where that point is using historical markers around him so that we can discern more about the heads and how things will unfold right before the end.
Now, do we have biblical precedence for this view that a prophet describes his prophetic perspective using symbology? Absolutely, for example:
1) When John said in Revelation 14 that, "the hour of His judgment IS come", was he speaking from his day in time? If so, we would have to drag the Investigative Judgment all the way back to AD85, negating the 2300 day prophecy. This isn't possible. We know that the "judgement is come" message was actually at the close of the 2300 days, in 1844, and had nothing to do with John's lifetime whatsoever, so it's obviously not correct to use the prophet's year of authorship as our time reference for interpretation.
2) In Revelation 13:2, when John was speaking of the Sea Beast, he noted that the beast had attributes of a Leopard, Bear, and Lion, indicative of the Grecian, Medo-Persian, and Babylonian empires that had already passed. But take note that he sees them in reverse order to how they are presented in Daniel 7. John is again, sitting on earth's timeline looking back in time, and seeing the beasts of Daniel 7 in reverse. Interestingly, Ellen White identifies the Sea Beast of Rev 13 as "Papal Rome", and she does so accurately because in verse 3 John tells us that he saw (past tense) one of the heads wounded, and we know that this head is Papal Rome, which received the wound in 1798. John was also seeing a Lamblike beast emerging out of the Earth, and so John is here sitting on earth's timeline near a time where both of these beasts are in view. The Lamblike beast originating in 1776, and one of the Sea Beast heads receiving the wound in 1798.
If we were to apply this same methodology of figuring out where John the Revelator is in earth's timeline in Revelation 17, we would conclude that he is at a point in time when five heads (empires of the world) are fallen, one is in power, and one is yet to come.
Some have concluded that the five fallen begin back at Egypt and continue through to "modern Rome", pretending that Rome hasn't really fallen at all and that the USA today is a part of Rome which will "go through to the end of time". This is impossible, because we know that Rev 17 speaks of an eighth head that "is the beast" and "is one of the seven" heads. We know, from what the Spirit of Prophecy tells us that the Beast of Rev 17 is the Papacy, and that the Apostate Church (harlot) is riding it. Thus, logically, the one head "that was, is not, and is yet to come" is this eight head. However, that eighth head was also "one of the seven", meaning it was in power before, and - more importantly - would have to be included in the five that "are fallen". Therefore, the last of the five that are fallen is Papal Rome. Why? Because it "was, is not, and is to come". Thus the fallen five are Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome and Papal Rome. Now, what is the sixth head? Revelation 13 makes it very clear that the United States of America rises up after the Sea Beast or Papal Rome, and thus the sixth head is the USA. John's Revelation 17 timeline perspective is from the USA's point of view.
From the context of Revelation 17, it is also logically simple to identify the 7th head of Revelation 17. Do a search on https://egwwritings.org/ for "What is it that gives its kingdom to this power?" and read Rev 17 and the context of the quote carefully to discover the symbol used to identify the entity that gives its kingdom to the beast (the eighth head). Then ask yourself, "what head is the predecessor to the eighth head?" Is it not the head that gives it's kingdom to the eighth head? Therefore, the entity that gives its kingdom to the beast is also the seventh head.
And now you know the identity of all the seven heads. But, if you are a student of the Great Controversy, you knew all this already. But, now you should clearly understand it from the Bible itself.
John is standing around 1798. The whore is drunk, and you get drunk towards the end of the drinking, not early on. At that time Papal Rome has been wounded by the Pope being taken prisoner. The power that is present at that time, the head that "is," is none other than the USA. Someone may say, But the USA never conquered Rome to take over as a world empire, but the same can be said about Papal Rome. She used her influence to subjugate the 10, and those who refused were uprooted. The uprooting means 8 horns remained. 10-3=7+1=8. That 8 is not by coincidence, because the Angel speaks of one of the kings being the eighth but being of the seven, just like what happened when Papal Rome uprooted the 3 horns; she became the 8th.
The USA is a world empire today by influence and power, not by conquest. Plus, the USA is prophetically of importance, as it plays a major role in the last days. The USA is an empire to this day, even as the wound remains unhealed. Those who say France -- well, from a succession standpoint it makes sense, except France is nothing in the world right now, at a time when the USA is the true power. France has no world empire nor influence to sway the world. That is what removes them from contention in my opinion.
If we take a step back and look at the beast the Angel is referencing in Rev 17:8, it is clear that this beast will make the world wonder, and we know this is Papal Rome. Notice also that he says of the same beast, "When they behold the beast that was and is not, and yet is," meaning it shows that it represents powerful Papal Rome (was), wounded Papal Rome (is not) and yet is (the Papacy did not stop existing even though it was wounded). In short, this beast represents (at that time) a component of Papal power. The beast and the woman are part of one system. A beast in prophecy represents political power, while the woman represents a church or religious power. When this beast gets mortally wounded, the woman on top falls to the ground. When Rome lost her political influence is when that beast was mortally wounded, and she fell by the hand of France. The beast and the woman form Papal power, the same power that murdered millions of Christians.
So, in my opinion, the kings are as follows:
1. Babylon (gold)
2. Medo-Persia (silver)
3. Greece (brass)
4. Pagan Rome (iron)
5. Papal Rome (Beast + Whore)
6. USA (beast from the earth)
7. Papal Rome (Whore/church influence restored)
8. Papal Rome (Beast/Political power), healed wound
The question is, who gets wounded, between the beast and the whore? It's the beast, not the whore. I think that is the point of John being shown the two components of Papal Rome. The whore is nothing without that beast. It carries her and does the killing for her while she rides it and drinks from the endless fountain of its kills. The wounding of that beast impacts her significantly, but that beast is not her, yet together they make one head. This is why church and state should never be made into law, because those two become one, like husband and wife where 1+1=1.
What do you all think?