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“Who? Who? Who Are You?” — 12 Comments

  1. Thank you so much, Dr. Terry, for your insightful and comprehensive commentary on the doctrine of man and its perversions. This discourse should be pubished in a book or pamphlet and distributed widely. It should be 'required reading" for Sabbath School teachers this quarter. God bless you, Brother.

  2. Thank you Terry for a well written post. The last paragraph I found especially powerful. It reminded me of what a friend said years ago. "God said let us make man in our image, and ever since then man has been saying, no! Lets make God in our image." Blessings Terry and keep these inspiring posts coming!

  3. First I have to say this was a very thought provoking article, before I point some things out...

    You say I quote "His writings are revolutionary in their repeated references to one standard for both the Israelites and the foreigners living among them"?? In fact this relates to the laws that governed Israel and strangers that sojourned with them.

    This can't be compared to equality in the worldly sense, as it relates more to making strangers adhere, in order to keep sins and immorality out of Israel as a nation.

    An example of this can be seen in Exodus

    Ex 12:48 KJV And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

    So here we see that a stranger could not take the Passover unless he is circumcised.

    Remember the God of Israel also said when speaking to Israel

    Deut 14:1 KJV. Ye [are] the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead

    Deut 14:2 KJV For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

    The God of Israel doesn't believe in equality only that we should serve him (God's love is order and obedience, and emotions and feelings are not to take precedence above them), Ironically, this is the same posture corrupt leaders take on.

    You also say

    “'golden age' of mankind where men and women were not only in a proper relationship with their Creator, but also were in a relationship of equality with each other where the respect and submission on the part of both were equal."???

    Again I say equality is not the point, obedience is, God has already pronounced that.

    Gen 3:16 KJV. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    So God says a man is to rule over woman, until the kingdom comes (yes this submission is not through duress but from faithful women and men's conscious decisions, but it is far from equality?). Today with the feminist movement the world seeks to reverse what God has ordained, by making men and women both equal, some would say even making women more superior (especially in relation to desires, as you will see when you read on).

    Further studies into Gen 3:16 show that the word for "rule", is actually impulse or desire taken from the Hebrew

    H8669 tshuwqah tesh-oo-kaw'

    from H7783 in the original sense of stretching out after;

    a longing.

    And whether anybody cares to agree with this or not, we know that men have the upper hand in relations with women even though feminism has crept in to challenge Gods rule in this matter.

    So this has nothing to do with man dominating woman, it relates to a woman having a stronger desire for a man. Once God pronounced this order, Satan has attempted to defy it, it is up to God if he wants to give his creation signs to remember particular disobediences committed, another sign being the rainbow, also the fact men have to work harder than women, so there is balance in the things God has said will be.

    So the notion of a golden age existed only before Adam and Eve sinned, before this time they were in Gods Kingdom (Garden of Eden). A return to this will only come again when the Kingdom comes. But we are in a period of testing. I am surprised that you say that a woman's impulse for a man is a mystery. To say that is like saying it's okay to lie as long as it's a white lie (i.e. not that serious). Because after all God only wants what's best for us, but this is not true, God requires our obedience to his word.

    I'm sure we can agree that we can't reverse Gods words


    • We are all equal at the cross. Women outside of the context of marriage are not submitted to a mans authority. What of the equality given the daughters of Zeolephad in numbers 27. I speak as a woman who is proud to have a Godly husband who fulfills my desire not as a curse but a blessing, for he is better to me than 10 sons. You state certain facts however the tone you take in my opinion lacks the character of Love.

      • We are not all equal at the Cross according to God, we can all make it to the cross ( I assume you mean kingdom of God?). We must all obey if we believe that is true. God is above Christ, there is order. Equality is a man made concept to hide the wickedness of those that are wicked.

        "I speak as a woman who is proud to have a Godly husband who fulfills "my" desire not as a curse but a blessing"???

        You need to go back and read what I said, I never said it was a curse that a woman should desire a man? The only thing God cursed was the ground to make man work harder. I believe the notion of it being a curse was in the article. Although the bible doesn't say that.

        It sounds like to me you have a warm fuzzy feeling about things, and that's your barometer of God? The way you feel is irrelevant, your pride is also irrelevant.

        Lk 7:23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

        Revelation 7:7-9

        7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

        2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

        3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

        4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

        5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

        6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

        7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

        8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

        9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; <<==== There is an order of things?

        Numbers 27

        daughters of Zelophehad? what baring does this have on the subject in question? What has Equality have to do with this decision? The problem is you think that I look down on women? I don't, the point is Women have a stronger desire for men , than men do for women thus says YHWH.

        daughters of Zelophehad were granted the permission to bare the seed, inorder to keep their lieneage going, because all of Israel knew that Men bare the seed and still do. Nothing has changed, this has nothing to do with equality?

        Matthew 15:26-28
        Christ called a woman outside of Israel a dog, but her humility in understanding his authority through Israel, made her worthy, once again there is order no equality

        Romans 9:12-14

        12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

        13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

        14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

        God makes the rules


    • Ikedi, you present a lengthy argument in support of your position but I am very concerned regarding your desire to perpetuate the effects of sin rather than to ameliorate them. Christ never took that approach. Instead He ministered to relieve the consequences of sin. That is the way of love. Perhaps this is what Kristen has picked up on as well.

      • Firstly I have to point out that the acknowledgement of sin does ameliorate it (so I beg to differ concerning Christs approach), if there is a genuine repentance that follows. Confession and then Repentance these are the main ingredients for any true believers life.

        ... I also have to make clear that my original points have been misconstrued. I was merely clearing up that man had to work and women have a greater impulses for men, were pronouncements from God, Not curses.

        Christ was fully aware of sin, and he spoke against it. It was not something that he pretended wasn't there.

        John 5:13-15

        13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.

        14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

        15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

        John 8:10-12

        10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

        11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

        *in both instances SIN NO MORE were the saviors words*

        That being said I have not supported sin anywhere in my response. Kristen seems has misunderstood me.

        I have not mentioned sin once, but ultimately Sin has to be acknowledged and then Christ will cover it.

        This is why people find it so difficult to confess things, there is great healing in it. Instead they deflect or totally ignore sin (transgression, rebellion to God)


        • Ikedi, from the tenor of your response, perhaps you did not understand the subtle difference between sin and the effects of sin. There was no mention of ameliorating sin but rather of the effects of sin. One effect of sin per Genesis three was the changed relationship between men and women. This has nothing to do with whether it is a curse or not. It seems simply to be an effect of sin. as an effect it should be ameliorated just like any other effect of sin.

          You are correct in how to deal with sin, but perhaps you are overlooking the distinction between sin and its effects. Sin needs repentance, but its effects need healing. This is what Jesus modeled.

    • Just so we are clear I LOVE all peoples that believe in the God of Israel and even those that don't. My prayer is that all people see their wromngs denounce them and Follow the one TRUE God.

      Exodus 20:3
      3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

  4. Hi Stephen

    I totally understand the effects of sin…they sent Israel into slavery and caused us to be spread throughout the nations according to prophecy Deuteronomy 28, Ezekiel 6:8, Daniel 9:11

    I made a distinction between a curse and a pronouncement of God, because Kristen in response to me suggested that, her husband fulfilling her was not as a result of a curse, which is something I never said. I am merely stating that women have a stronger desire towards men regardless of feelings.

    To address the point about healing, God distinctly cursed the ground and not man. The only two people to experience a relation free of boundaries set by God in Genesis 3 are and Adam and Eve. The relation God pronounced will not be healed until the kingdom comes. Therefore, a women's desire for a man is a fact of life. It certainly does not require any type of healing.

    Are you suggesting feminism is a tool of God? If we read the Bible and understand it then this information serves as guidance.

    As far as healing goes it is futile if a person is healed and does not acknowledge sin (their rebellion, wrongs against God) Or worse still has no understanding of the sins they have committed. In previous examples I list above, what would have been the point of the people being healed by Christ if they didn’t acknowledge their sins? Healing is a byproduct of confession and repentance. In some cases there is no healing but just confession and repentance. The apostles such as Paul and Stephen Acts 7:59 experienced this by being murdered, where was their healing?

    Don’t get me wrong I believe in healing by the truth is more important! Christ promoted mercy not healing. He promoted this because it was needed at a time when all the supposed teachers of Israel were teaching hypocrisy and had no mercy, Matthew 9:13. Christ fulfilled the law and replaced the sacrificial elements, because none of Israel kept it, especially the leaders of Israel. Christ became the final sacrifice Daniel 9:27.



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