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Sabbath: The Faith of Abraham — 19 Comments

  1. It is sobering that 500 years into the Reformation, we still struggle over the same issues. But then we are all guilty, which is a recognition that belongs *before* the first of the noted three major stages in the Plan of Salvation (promise of Grace; response of Faith, Divine pronouncement of Righteousness). And that recognition, that we are ALL fallen and sinful, is brought to us by the Law. The promise of Grace is only valuable if the Law, through the Spirit, sufficiently convicts us of our personal and collective need.

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    • Abraham was convicted of his sin before the Law of the Ten Commandments was given.

      Abraham had received the promise, received justification, was declared righteous, sinned, was forgiven, and received the rite of circumcision 430 years before the law was given.

      Gal 3:17 tells us that the law which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ.

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  2. It's indeed true that Abraham passed through the named above three stages to be reckoned righteous.Bible scholars have debated time and again over the faith of Abraham that makes him outstanding among the others who also had faith by then. In the context of the story of Abraham and justification by faith, could I be brought to light about the following:
    1.primitive faith v.s intelligent faith.
    2.was Abraham called before circumcision or after the circumcision?

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    • God called Abraham as recorded in Genesis Chapter 12:1, Abraham was about 75 years old. God then considers Abraham "Righteous," because of his faith towards God's Promise to him that God would make of him a great nation and even before God gave Abraham the rite of Circumcision as recorded in Genesis Chapter 15:6. God gave Abraham the rite of circumcision when he was 90 years old as recorded in Genesis Chapter 17:13, 15 years after God first called him and also considered him "Righteous," before that too.

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    • What do you mean by distinguishing between "primitive faith" and "intelligent faith"?!

      Faith is trusting God completely according to your/my ability. "Primitive" or "intelligent" has little to do with it, as far as I can see. Probably "primitive" faith is best, because it sounds like the faith of a little child, and Jesus said that that's exactly what we need to enter the Kingdom. See Matt 18:3

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  3. Abraham was called before circumcision. In Genesis 12, he was called by the Lord "Get thee out of thy country..." In Genesis 16, he took Hagar to wife and she bore him a son Ishmael. It was in Genesis 17 when God appeared to him and made the covenant with him. Verses 10-14 talked about circumcision. Maybe, if Abraham didn't doubt the Lord and had Ishmael circumcision might not have happened.

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    • Yes, Eileen

      We would not have had circumcision if Abraham did not doubt the promise of God.

      Similarly, we would not have had the Ten Commandments in the form and content given on Mt Sinai, if the Israelites had not doubted the sovereignty of God, and had not continually rebelled and committed transgression against Almighty God.

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  4. Abraham believed in the promise of God and faithfully followed in deed and in action. I pray that I may believe in God's promise for my life and demonstrate it in what I do.

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  5. Quoted from the lesson "If we deserved it (i.e. grace) then we’d be owed it, and if we’re owed it, it’s a debt and not a gift". My question is at what point did we not deserve grace? We were born in sin and shapened in iniquity at no fault of ours. Someone messed up but why am I paying for that error. I never asked to be born. What is it that we deserve? an apology? For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten son that whosoever believeth in Him ... I am a whosoever and I think I deserve grace. I think I might be a little confused here. Please explain. Thanks.

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    • You’re right. If there was no way out for us, we could rightly question both the justice and mercy of God. Because He is both just and merciful, a rescue was in place before Creation.

      In the context of faith vs works, ‘deserving’ implies an intentional act or behavior on our part, and as you’ve correctly noted, we did not choose to be born.

      Deserving or not, because God is both just and merciful, we will be rescued and restored!

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    • I think we merit the opportunity to believe and receive His grace. We choose to receive the gift God offers, or we can refuse it. I think we have enough historical facts to see what happens when a dictator chooses what is best for people. God reveals His plan for us and also reveals the flip side. God is all about informed choice.

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    • You raise a good point Georgia.
      There are some words popping up in the lesson (this week and last week) that risk misrepresentation of the way God sees us.

      Two words in particular that come to mind are "unacceptable" and "undeserving". I am absolutely convinced that God does not look upon any of us this way - ever. It is out of harmony with God's nature and character to do so. Rather, our human tendency to view others that way under certain circumstances has been projected upon God. People have said that they don't believe the authors meant that we are unacceptable or undeserving at some point in our experience - but that is an implication that is implicit in the language being used.

      I would argue that both the acceptable/unacceptable and deserving/undeserving concepts need to be taken out of the picture - and that doing so would not change the actual reality that exists. We do not deserve grace in terms of 'God owes us', but neither are we undeserving. The actual relationship between God, His grace and us is a different concept to deserving/undeserving and therefore needs different words.

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      • Paul says that "the wages of sin is death" (Ro 6:23). Wages are "deserved."

        I believe the idea is that there is nothing we have done that "deserves" or "merits" salvation. The only person "deserving" salvation would be one who never sinned, one who was in harmony with the principles of God's Law. Any other person taken to heaven would disrupt the harmony of heaven. Thus, only Jesus was "deserving."

        Christ died the death that we deserve so that we might have the eternal life that He deserves. It is a truth whose ramifications the redeemed will explore for eternity.

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        • Ms. Anderson, I am even more confused by your statement "The only person "deserving" salvation would be one who never sinned, one who was in harmony with the principles of God's Law" I looked up the meaning of Salvation and most of the references stated that it is "being saved from destruction,sin, a dire situation etc". So since I am the one with the ailment/sin, I am thinking that I am the one who would deserve the treatment/remedy/grace/mercy/salvation more. Could it be that this remedy/treatment was both a curative and a preventive saving plan? Was Adam more deserving of Salvation before or after he sinned? Did God love him less or more after he sinned? The more I think of it is the more confused I am. I don't know if I should even be thinking of these things least I sin.

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          • Perhaps I used the wrong terms. One who never sinned would not need salvation.

            The only one "deserving" heaven would be one who never sinned. Since no one fits that description, no one "deserves" heaven.

            The bottom line is that salvation is a free gift. Our great need is also our only "merit" for salvation:

            You must know by experience how sinful sin is, and how much you need Jesus as a personal Saviour. Only thus can you become sons and daughters of God. Your only merit is your great need. (Counsels on Health, page 590)

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    • Georgia: We all deserve death, not because of Adam's sin but because of ours. That is why we all need grace. We do not deserve grace because we didn't earn it. What we earned is death (see Inge's response).

      If we had somehow managed to live a sinless life, we wouldn't need grace. Since we haven't lived a sinless life, we need grace (which by definition is undeserved). If we reject that grace, we THEN get what we deserve (Romans 6:23).

      I categorically reject suggestions that we should "clean up" the language of the Bible because it doesn't "sound nice." The Gospel is a language of love. If we reject that love, we deserve the wages of sin (death).

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  6. If the man kept the forever law, the law of God which is Ten commandments given to Adam after his fall, kept by Noah in the Ark, and Abraham keep it also. There would be no need of Regulation circumcision.

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  7. Georgia

    This is going to sound theoretical, but it can only be accepted by faith and belief in the Word.

    The future God has in store for us is infinitely greater and better than anything we are experiencing, or can imagine or conjure up. God created us (and allowed us to be born) so that we can have a future awesome relationship with Him day-to-day throughout eternity, and that joyous relationship can start right now, despite the sufferings we deal with daily. The pain and suffering we endure now are nothing compared to the eternity of bliss. With the Lord, a day is like a thousand years to us. God in His mercy has shortened our life span from several hundred years like Methuselah, to probably a century or less, on the average, so that limits the amount of “pain” we have to deal with before being ushered into eternity. God allows more babies to be born so that they too can share in that eternal joy. His character of love can do no less than make this gift of grace available to as many as possible.

    Paul has encouraging words in Rom 8:18 - I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.

    Isa 53:4-6 tells us that Jesus has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows. He was stricken, smitten by God, afflicted, wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, chastised so that we may have peace. And ALL of our iniquity was laid on Him.

    To me this means that Jesus Christ carried on His shoulders and in His body the combined effect of all of our pains and sufferings – physical, mental, spiritual pains. In colloquial terms, He went through “hell” for each of us, and all of us - all at the same time. Tremendous weight and anguish!

    So, the next time I think that God owes me an apology, or I deserve anything, I must remember that such an “apology” (if I can call it that) is already wrapped up in the gift of His Son, and by accepting that gift I have the assurance of the stupendous and glorious future ahead, and that greatness far exceeds anything this life can through at me.

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  8. Hi Georgia;
    All the king's horses and all the king's men... Let me give it a shot. I don't know that any of us "deserve" anything from God and He is not obligated to do anything to save us regardless of how good we might be. That's a thought that I have never heard expressed in any church, Adventist or otherwise, before. Christians talk and behave as if God had to do "something". God doesn't have to do anything and could just as well stand back, let us annihilate ourselves, and then could say to the rest of the universe, "see I told you so: sin is bad for you, is destructive, and I warned them but they wouldn't listen". Everyone else would be convinced of the wisdom and justice of God and could get on with their business. The only reason that doesn't happen is because God loves us and for Him, the pain of dying on a cross is less than the pain of living eternally without us. So God makes the greatest sacrifice, regardless of the pain to Himself to save us.
    I've thought too of the injustice of being born into a world of sin. No matter how good you might be, you're still going to be hurt by sin. The thought that God might someday apologize for what's happened has occurred to me too. Call it sacreligious if you like. I'm not saying God is responsible or that there is something more He might have done, only that He has let this world go on long enough to make sure the problem of sin is forever ended and doesn't come back again. Fred mentioned Romans 8:18 and I agree with his interpretation of that verse. Job also speaks to this point. The book ends with the line "and Job died old and full of days". The Hebrew here signifies not just "full", but also satisfied, ie: he was satisfied with God and that God had made it right for Him. I believe that heaven will be wonderful enough that we will be satisfied as well that God has made up for whatever pain or loss we have suffered, but that's a belief that has to be based on faith. The corollary to that thought is that when He sees us saved in heaven, that He will consider the pain and loss He has suffered to be worth it. I hope you find some of this helpful. I don't think God minds at all when we question, I'm thinking He's sick at heart when we don't talk to Him and don't care. steve

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