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Did God Create the Devil? — 24 Comments

  1. ramon tenorio of australia
    what you have writen is very good readable and thought prevoking but does not go far enough in explanation ,either using Sister White comments on the subject i feel would have been more enlightening like mention that we all have a free will so did satan .

    Amen!(7)
    • I think you may mean to ask where the Bible says that Lucifer was one of the cherubim.
      Eze 28:14 says:

      14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
      I established you;
      You were on the holy mountain of God;
      You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.

      And the last footnote (you have to scroll to the very end of the post) says this:

      Note that “cherub” is the single form of “cherubim,” angelic beings who guarded the way to the Garden of Eden after Adam and Eve sinned (Gen. 3:24) and symbolic golden cherubim also guarded the place where God appeared to Israel above the mercy seat. (Ex. 35:18-22, Ex. 37:9, Numbers 7:89) David referred to Jehovah as the one who sits/dwells between the cherubim. (Ps 80:1, Ps 99:1) And so does Isaiah. (Isa 37:16) Ezekiel sees cherubim supporting a movable throne on which God appears. (Eze. 10:1-3, Eze. 10:20, 11:22)

      Amen!(5)
  2. Suffice to say that Lucifer has exercised his freedom of choice to rebel against the government of his own Creator.

    Amen!(5)
  3. Ramon here is a quote of Inge Anderson under the title 'So How Did A Perfect Cherub Become A Demon of Darkness'? I do believe that free will is expressed here in both sentences. In my humble opinion Inge Anderson puts EGW in her own words. Doug Batchler said, one time that if you give people the Spirit of Prophecy writings without EGW name attached they will love it. One time I went to an in God's creative splender Ester sunrise ceremony. We were standing on a clif over looking the small town where we lived at the time, yes facing a mountain on the other side of the valley as the sun was sending it's rays above it. As I walked up the preacher leading out of whom I had never been in his church said, and I am sure for my benefit, "we don't need a prophet, we have the Bible.' For a few moments, I was affended, but then forgave him as he was a preacher of a prophetless church. I believe putting EGW in our own words helps reach more people. Just recently I got up in our small church, as there are weekends our pastor is at a church 100 miles away in our district, and gave a sermonette on the gospel in a nut shell, having more time I read a story about 'The Star of Bethlehem'. I did not give the source away as a chapter in the Desire of Ages. Some recognized it I am sure, some didn't. We closed with 'Away in the Manger'. I hope this helps you.

    "This beautiful angel looked at himself, rather than at God, and focused on his own beauty. And the wisdom with which God endowed him became corrupted through his focus on his own “splendor.”"
    page 4 of 'Did God Create The Devil?' by Inge Anderson

    Amen!(7)
  4. Jesus' parable of the wheat and the tares contains an element that has some bearing on this, I would suggest.

    "...the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this." (Matt 13:27-28)

    The servants were surprised at the presence of the tares! "Sir, did you not sow [ONLY] good seed in your field?" The application of the parable is normally made to the church, (or sometimes to the world,) but God's field can also be understood as the universe.

    Where have all the hurtful elements come from? Answer - "An enemy has done this."
    _______________

    "He never made a thorn, a thistle, or a tare. These are Satan’s work, the result of degeneration, introduced by him among the precious things..." (6Testimonies p.186)

    _______________
    But applying this to the more immediate application of the presence of an "Adversary", or a "Satan". It was still an "enemy" that brought about the great change in that angel who once stood nearest to the throne of God.

    The "enemy" was pride (or selfishness), but the development of that evil, insidious, element must always remain a mystery. There was no rational reason for it to appear in God's "field". The "mystery" of iniquity must remain for as long as sin remains.

    Amen!(4)
    • If your arguments of 'thorns & thistles are true, please explain Genesis 3:17-19. Who made these pronouncements?

      How would you explain Genesis 3:5 & 22; 2:9,17; Revelation 20:14; 21:4; Matthew 25:41- all in the contex of the knowledge, participation and consequences of evil?

      Will God completely destroy evil in the New Creation?

      Will the tree of knowledge of good and evil be in the New Creation?

      Will the saints in the New Earth still have the knowledge of good and evil?

      If I am wrong please correct me.

      I believe that all power is subjected to God's will because He made all things.

      I also believe that the reason God will destroy not only Satan but also evil and all its sources, is never to have it surface itself ever again.

      One of two things:

      (a) The saints will have no knowledge of Evil in the New Creation

      (b) The saints will have no desire of evil because of their former knowledge and encounter with its devastating effects and consequences.

      Either of the two works for me, eventhough I am ignorant of the consequences of such a belief in regards to my soul salvation in Christ Jesus.

      Amen!(0)
  5. Inge, The first sentence on Tues I think says much about what we should remember when discussing the reason for evil originating in Heaven. The verses in Ezekiel 28 seem to make it even more difficult to wrap our minds around the complete picture. Every time I read those verses,as well as those in Isaiah 14, trying to separate symbolism and metaphor, from reality, earthly from Heavenly beings, leaves me with a headache. What is clear to me is the sin that Lucifer created in his heart was misguided Love. He had fallen in love with himself and robbed God of the Love that belonged to Him. I think we can identify rather well with this concept.

    Amen!(6)
    • Thanks, Paul, for this interesting way of putting it:

      He had fallen in love with himself and robbed God of the Love that belonged to Him. I think we can identify rather well with this concept.

      Amen!(2)
  6. I had thought that the story of David and Saul would be easy for me to tell to a four year old. It is not so and I am struggling with 1 Samuel 16:14-23 New International Version (NIV).

    14 Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil[a] spirit from the Lord tormented him.

    And I am also looking into the symptoms of a possessed person. Tantrum throwing, stress, frustration, feeling sad, etc. could be so! My JW friend would tell me that God is Almighty, All powerful... But as I read the comments above, concerning the Free will, then probably God could not let Saul exercise his Free will.

    ...And when I think about the spirit of self/exaltation among men and women, I just bow down and ask the Lord to help us not to fight for a position of either sitting at His right or left hand.

    I am happy that I found this topic, I will wait for your views. Happy Sabbath Day

    Amen!(3)
    • Grace, we have free will only by the grace of God. By accepting Satan's lies, Adam and Even chose Satan as master, and Satan enslaves all his subjects. It was only through Christ's stepping into the gap that Adam and Eve's free will was restored. They could choose to exercise faith in the Savior to come.

      Saul had free will through the same promise of the Savior. But when He rejected the Spirit of God in His life, as indicated by the fact that the Spirit left him, and evil spirit took over, and he no longer had free will.

      Ah .... I see your difficulty: The text says, "an evil spirit from the Lord," and that's a problem to our modern minds. We need to understand that the ancient people took a high view of the sovereignty of God and ascribed to His direct action anything Jehovah did not prevent. You can look up for yourself that the Bible says that Pharaoh hardened his heart and that the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart. Which is true? Well, both are:

      Pharaoh hardened his heart by resisting the Spirit of the Lord. The same sun that melts butter hardens clay. So the same Spirit that softens willing hearts hardens those who resist.

      Now back to Saul: I think we just need to recognize that the rejection of the Holy Spirit resulted in an evil spirit taking his place, but the Bible writers ascribed all to the Lord the same way the Bible says that the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart.

      Does that make sense to you?

      Amen!(2)
  7. The problem of the creation of evil can be understood better if we understand the nature of intelligence and free choice. First of all a little lesson in logic: The statement "God built a stone so large that he cannot lift it". This is logically inconsistent because if God builds a stone that he cannot lift, then he is not omnipotent. We are used to logical inconsistencies in mathematics - we call them contradictions.

    Likewise we need to ask the question; "Can God create intelligent beings (in his image) without giving them free choice? The answer is no because if you limit their choice they are no longer intelligent beings but automatons. In other words, the creation of intelligent beings without free choice is a contradiction. The ultimate question is probably why did God create at all? That will probably remain a mystery until the end of time. But it will be one of the first questions I ask when I get the opportunity.

    Amen!(4)
    • Why did God create at all is a mystery? How so? Aren't we told in Revelation 4:11?
      "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

      God is pleased by His creation, and through those made in His image, He has a family with which to share His pleasure with joy, and soon, in perfect peace.

      We could ask the same about couples who choose to have children, and find the same answer. Yes, many unwanted children are born due to "accidents", but creation is no accident and neither is sin, though it is an intruder. The issue is that there are choices for us just as God has choices as well in how He addresses problems with His creation. Being in His image comes with these same choices to make. Lucifer made his and many have followed him down the path to perdition.

      God will not allow sin to persist once it has been made clear what it is and where it leads. This outbreak has led the heavens to understand and soon on earth it will be finally understood as well, and every knee will bow and declare God just in all things. Satan himself will declare this, and God will finish the rebellion without needing to remove freewill. The unveiled work of Satan will convince all of how evil sin is.

      Does anyone need to be convinced that cancer is bad?

      Amen!(3)
      • Why then was Christ's death necessary? - if Adam and Eve, after their sin, and their progeny, were still "free" to choose to obey or not obey.

        Amen!(1)
        • One sin entitles the sinner to die for that sin. The law can be propitiated only by death for the sin. (Rom 6:23)

          Obedience after sinning cannot atone for that sin, anymore than you stopping twice at the next red light can atone for your running the last red light while intoxicated and killing an innocent pedestrian.

          Sinning is the willful violation of a law, which requires one to deny the sovereignty of the Author of that Law. So more than one law is broken if one steals. You have to deny God as ruler, covet, and love yourself more than your neighbor, probably dishonoring your parents who taught you never to steal.....etc. And if you call yourself a Christian, you have taken the Lord's name in vain. All this if you decide to steal.

          Amen!(4)
        • Because God is love, He cannot "force" anyone to obey or disobey His law of love. Love operates through free will, it is contrary to operate otherwise. Love does not restrict anyone or his/her freedom. (Restricting anyone is not love.) Jesus chose to die for Adam because Adam chose to sin. Adam was helpless on his own. Adam chose not to love God by disobeying God's loving, protective forbidding not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of evil. Adam chose to disregard God. But God, in stead, chose to save Adam by dying to pay for Adam's sin -- there was no other way around. God had to sacrifice Himself. He did not have to. But God chose to do it -- because He of loved so much. Because God did it, Adam and Eve, you and I, can remain "free" to choose. We can now choose to love Him because He first loved us!

          Amen!(5)
          • No matter what the Scripture says, some hold desperately to their traditions. When someone has become saved, that is saved by God, born from above, begotten of God, God describes it, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into Life.”(John 5:24)
            “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.(John 5:21)
            So our natural condition before God is “dead”. Adam died that day in Eden! God says “It is the Spirit who gives Life, the flesh profits nothing . That which is born of the flesh is is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”(John 6:63; 3:6) Adam’s spirit was in oneness, harmony with God such that he named the animals just as God “had in mind”. When He sinned rebelling against God, that brought a separation between the two (Isa 59:2). Adam died. When God barred him from the “tree of life” that was evidence of what transpired internally in Adam. He had suffered spiritual death. Worship of God in Spirit and truth, which is the only worship that is acceptable to God, came to an end.
            He retained physical life like the animals, and Satan knew, with his wisdom, that that would happen in saying “you shall not surely die”. Adam understood, I think, that he would be “living” sort of independent of God and he could “live” with that, having Eve with him.
            Jesus said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when THE DEAD WILL HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD, and THOSE WHO HEAR WILL LIVE.”(John 5 :25) Which DEAD is Christ talking about? - those who are dead in trespasses and sins. He speaks of the other resurrection as “all who are in the tombs” v28.
            The physical miracles that Christ performed were all object lessons and previews of the miracle of salvation and redemption. Isa 35:5 “Then the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf will be unstopped.” So what is man’s condition. Spiritually he is a slave of sin - he is not “free”, . He is dead. He is deaf. He is blind. “The whole head is sick” (Isa 1,3). He is leprous all over. Spiritual things are foolishness to the natural man. That’s what God says.
            The Rom 7 man, although he “knows” what he should do just can’t do it. Adam, Lucifer, and Christ possessed “free will and choice”. Those born of Adam don’t have “free will and choice”. They are slaves to sin!!
            Christ must resurrect us to life; we must be born of God in order to exercise free will choices.

            Amen!(4)
      • This discussion can get a little deep if we follow it to a conclusion, however in talking about sin it is necessary to define what sin is. One of the first answers would be from the Bible. 1 John 3:4 says sin is lawlessness, NJK. Without getting into Hebrew and Greek words for law and sin, Hebrews 11:25 says sin is pleasurable. Then the question becomes, was there a law, a set of rules, in Heaven? Ezekiel 28:15 calls sin, iniquity. Iniquity is one of the definitions of sin. It would seem then, that God would be the law, if Lucifer' sin was against God. It makes some kind of sense to me, that the unsaid controversy between God and Lucifer was over Gods authority to require sole allegiance, if choice was an option.

        Amen!(3)
      • What exactly are you responding to?
        The questions are:

        1) Where did evil come from to enter the thoughts of Lucifer?

        2) What is "Free Will" in the context of God is free and so by His Devine nature makes all things free?

        3) What does it really mean (Genesis 1:31) that everything God made was very good? Does it mean there is no evil in God's creation or does it mean God was satisfied, happy and well pleased with His creation?

        4) If there is no evil created, but only good, what is the sense of Laws and choices and why were the Angels as well as Adam and Eve created "free" beings with "free" will to make their own choices?

        5) At what point in God's existence He thought of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Was it before Genesis 1 Creation Story? Was it before He thought of Lucifer or any other created beings? Is it possible for God to have the knowledge of something that has no existence?

        6) What exactly does all things mean in Colossians 1:16; Revelation 4:11; Hebrews 11:3?

        7) Why the thought of God creating evil is considered a reason to excuse evil as evil and that evil has to be called something other than evil? Since "all" things are of God (known and unknown; visible and invisible; conceivable and inconceivable) why evil could not be apart of His creation?

        8) Since sin is called an intruder, suggesting it was unwelcome, would that mean God was not aware of Lucifer's "free" will and that one day he would challenged and rebelled against God- hence God's reason for the plan of Salvation and Redemption even before the creation of Lucifer?

        9) Does perfection in the contex of the bible especially the Genesis 1 and 2 creation stories means only good and no evil at all? Does the term very good or perfection simply means God had accomplished all that He had set out to do? Does it mean there was absolutely no evil, only good?

        10) If God has nothing at all to do with the existence of evil, at what point would God determine that Sin is the transgression of His Laws? Would it be before Lucifer was created by God, or would it be after Lucifer's rebellion against God?

        11) Since all power is subjected to God's will, would evil not be one such power? If God has nothing at all to do with the existence of evil, why is evil subjected to God? Why this intruder called evil has no power in and of itself but rather all its powers are completely subjected to God's will- so much so that one day God will not only destroy evil itself, but also the one who discovered evil- the devil?

        Amen!(0)
  8. If God can see end from the beginning and He knew Satan would bring war to heaven, create all suffering we see, why not create an angel who would not be tempted by by his beauty.

    Amen!(1)
  9. Self exaltation is a phrase no one should embrace, Aligning oneself with the devil, must definitely be a NO No for human beings. We must reach the understanding, that Satan interest lies in the destruction of human beings.He don't want us to inherit eternal life, he don't want us to walk on the streets of gold, he don't want us to ever enjoy eternal life. Exaltation allows him to lose all that he once had. We have an opportunity to choose christ, be humble and develop a character like him,so that others may see and wants to be apart of his kingdom. Let us spend more time with christ daily in so doing there will be no space for satan in our thoughts.

    Amen!(2)
  10. What about this one ladies and gentlemen? "Sin is the separation from God". Desire the truth, give our selves totally to Christ, seek salvation, surrender our bad habits to Christ, let the Holy Spirit permiate us like leven in bread, helping us visualize Christ, now we are no longer separated from God. (Born of Heaven, the Spirit, the Water, the Cross, and the Love of God). John 3:1-16. We ask for the Holy Spirit on a daily basis we are born of the Spirit on a daily basis. John 14:14-17. Some one said you left out repentance. No, surrender of bad habits to Christ is repentance. We have Acepted Him, Believe in Him and Claim His promises. The one who was created a perfect being by God, sinned and seperated himself from God forever, has high tailed it from us because we have the Holy Spirit. (Implied in.) John 14:17.

    Amen!(1)

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